| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 4/14/2008 5:53:24 PM | | Ever read James Baldwin's story "Sonny's Blues" from his collection "Going to Meet the Man"... fabulous/powerful discussion of oppression, music, faith, logic and freedom. | |
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 4/14/2008 10:42:33 PM |
Well sir, you see statisticly it's been proven that folks who experience the 'blues' are more prone to claim to hear from God on a regular basis than are those who are of more stable or happy mood.
Source please.
Historical/Religious/Psycho Science has shown that's why persecuted minorities of larger nations are more prone to cling to their belief in God to reduce the onslaught of bitterness and complete and total depression.
Unsure what Historical/Religious/Psycho Science means but ok I'll bite. Source please.
religion was preferable to the "what did I do to be so black and blue"
There is an alternative that does'nt involve religion or sitting around feeling sorry for ones self. You may find this hard to believe but there are actually people out there who have had one hell of a rough time, but through forgiveness, friends and family, therapy etc, can get their lives back on track without having to talk to a supernatural being. Pretty amazing eh?
In conclusion let me clearly state that Christianity was not the religion of the captors of my ancestors but rather a pale facsimile of the form of christianity without the substance.
They were Christians, they read the Bible [presumably] and they profited from human misery.
Christianity moves with the times. It takes stock of the current socio/political mood and it adjusts.
Human rights have succeeded despite religion, not because of it. | |
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 4/14/2008 11:08:25 PM |
Human rights have succeeded despite religion, not because of it.
Hmm, the countries that ban religions are known to have the worst human rights issues. You have a source for your claim? | |
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 4/15/2008 1:59:47 AM | Yes, history books that tell us among other things.
Persecution of Jews by christians in European middle ages
Burning of "witches" condoned by christianity
Taliban control
Killing gay people in Iran as condoned by the Koran
You get the picture I'm sure. These things happened and are happening because blind adherance to religious faith and fear from the Church if anyone complained.
Then along came the age of enlightenment. Purely secular and concerned with the truth as science could show it. Basic human rights started to gain momentum when democratically elected secular governments came to the fore.
Unfortunately some countries are under the control still of theocratic governments and as a result ordinary people are suffering for just being who they are.
Be gratefull most of us here are not living under such regimes for if the US were a theocracy the minority [I hope] of Christians opposed to the gay lifestyle would almost certainly become a majority.
Viva la securalism!  | |
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 4/15/2008 2:25:17 AM | evolving62 said:
Yes, history books that tell us among other things.
Persecution of Jews by christians in European middle ages
Burning of "witches" condoned by christianity
Taliban control
Killing gay people in Iran as condoned by the Koran
Which was in response to E. Kyro, who said:
Hmm, the countries that ban religions are known to have the worst human rights issues. You have a source for your claim?
We can cite many examples of religious societies committing evil, but we can also cite many examples of secularist societies committing evil. Among those, I can think of:
-The violence of the Russian Revolution against the Russian Orthodox Church and the deportation of Orthodox priests and monks to gulags in Siberia. The Soviet anti-religious era is probably best represented in Stalin's demolition of the Cathedral of Christ the Savior in order to build the "Palace of the Soviets".
-The Cristero War of the 1920's, when Mexico under President Calles attempted to suppress Catholicism. This led to hundreds or even thousands of priests, nuns and laity being executed by firing squad, simply for exercising their ministries. See the example of Blessed Miguel Pro, SJ.
-The anticlerical violence of the Spanish Civil War. Over 6,000 priests were murdered; the highest number of clerical martyrdoms in history, topping even the ancient Romans'. Republican forces sacked monasteries and raped entire convents of nuns. Clergy being forced to swallow rosary beads, being gored to death by bulls, and other such atrocities.
-And of course, there is always the Reign of Terror during the French Revolution. No explanation needed.
At any rate, these are just some examples of very barbaric secularist or officially atheistic regimes. And so, I don't think the argument of whether religious or secular socities are superior/inferior can be won by a display of atrocities.
Then along came the age of enlightenment. Purely secular and concerned with the truth as science could show it. Basic human rights started to gain momentum when democratically elected secular governments came to the fore.
Undoubtedly, many secular ideals have helped propel human rights.
The same can be said, however, for many religious ideals. | |
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 4/15/2008 9:14:26 AM | evolving62
My source is registered under poetic liscense number I-8-1 U-8-1-2.
It's been nice trading our own lines of bull about why we believe what we believe. You believe that secular humanism can save the world from bad religion. I believe that the little old lady with the soup kitchen can save the world from bad religion. You never met the little old lady with the soup kitchen or if you did you only resented the smile and the free cup of soup cause you knew she believed in Jesus.
evolving, please believe me when I say that I understand where you are coming from and if I could go back to all the similar conversations I've had in this forum covering this same ground I would. Suffice it to say that I disregard the intellectal for the absurd since I feel that is something we all share rather we admit to it or not.
In my experience I've concluded that true christianity is as unidentifiable in this world as is a mental illness to the patient that has it. My life falls in line with this assesment but I'm grateful, no.... beyond grateful to have friends and mercy and faith and acceptance in my life and alot of this due to the conversations I've had here in this very forum. I'm not trying to be condescending when I say welcome to POF forums but truly grateful to have someone to talk too. God does speak... and I believe God can speak even through you. | |
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 4/15/2008 9:37:46 AM | The last time God "spoke" to me, It said that the religious experience was a farce... That it was my mission to end organized religion and that I should conform as many followers as possible to my cause by any means necessary.
Almost had me going there.
"There are no known words which can be proven to come solely from God".
--God | |
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 4/15/2008 5:54:13 PM |
You never met the little old lady with the soup kitchen or if you did you only resented the smile and the free cup of soup cause you knew she believed in Jesus.
Statue, That's unfair, I did once meet her and what she believed was irrelevant because she was a decent old lady who genuinely cared for her fellow human and the cup of tea was delicious.
However I did resent the religious organisation she was giving her time to.
While on the one hand trumpeting Christ's love and compassion, you were only allowed to seek shelter for the night from them if they gained access to your welfare cheque.
Belief or non belief, one thing don't change. Good old human greed.
In my experience I've concluded that true christianity is as unidentifiable in this world as is a mental illness to the patient that has it
There's a nail somewhere and it's head has just been well and truly hit.
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 4/15/2008 6:38:08 PM | Unfortunately some countries are under the control still of theocratic governments and as a result ordinary people are suffering for just being who they are.
Be gratefull most of us here are not living under such regimes for if the US were a theocracy the minority [I hope] of Christians opposed to the gay lifestyle would almost certainly become a majority.
Communist countries are now theocracies? New one on me. Secular countries in the last century are responsible for over 100 million deaths.
"Viva la securalism!"? ?? | |
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 4/15/2008 7:49:51 PM |
Communist countries are now theocracies? New one on me. Secular countries in the last century are responsible for over 100 million deaths.
Doesn't change anything about the 500million killed by your alledged creator creating smallpox...
& lets not forget your god wiping out the ENTIRE PLANET in an amazing display of sociopathic behavior...
a mere 100milion dead at the hands of secularists is a drop in the ocean in comparrison... | |
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JOHN8D
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Joined: 2/5/2008
Msg: 236 | |
| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 4/16/2008 6:09:33 AM | Oddly enough
hehe
Why do we wee ourselves when we happy.
Why do we poo ourselves when we fear.
Chi, i find hard to belive, the enagry that flows though my body is my blood being pumped round my body, by my heart and my breath as i breath in out. the human body gives off enegry not over way around.
i dont dont say someone cnt belive in Chi as it is there belivef but not mine | |
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 4/16/2008 10:11:53 AM | Doesn't change anything about the 500million killed by your alledged creator creating smallpox...
Oh, come on - you can't blame a God you don't believe exists
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 4/18/2008 1:29:02 AM | That it was my mission to end organized religion and that I should conform as many followers as possible to my cause by any means necessary.
so your mission by any means possible,,,,,,( is to say god doesn't speakor exists) and try to conform as many followers. Did you know that this has been done since christ was crucifiied and it has only grew with time. Many thousands have tried before and will after you but it is not of man lest any should boast. | |
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 5/1/2008 5:11:50 PM |
The last time God "spoke" to me, It said that the religious experience was a farce... That it was my mission to end organized religion and that I should conform as many followers as possible to my cause by any means necessary. Pssst.... When someone speaks to you inside your head... It's not always God and it might be time for your meds. | |
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 5/1/2008 6:54:29 PM | Read the collection of books, "Conversations with God".
Also, on another thought, I wonder if God is asking himself...."Why don't people listen to me anymore when I speak? Can't they hear me like they used to? Why is it so difficult for people to hear my voice anymore? Does it always have to take some big huge miracle for them to notice me?" | |
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 5/1/2008 11:03:34 PM | | I dont think God is all-powerful so he doesn't talk to any body because he can't talk to every body at the same time while working a miracle as proof to each one as proof of his god hood. Other than create the energy/mass off the universe i don't think god has done a thing in the universe to protect us from the consequences if he did. I don't belive in the god of the bible. | |
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 5/17/2008 5:57:03 PM |
a mere 100milion dead at the hands of secularists is a drop in the ocean in comparrison...
So you would rationalise and excuse the killing of 100 million by humans who share your outlook by appealing to the worse behaviour of an entity you insist doesn't exist? You got a shovel for all the Bullsh!t you're throwing out way?  | |
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 5/17/2008 6:11:11 PM | Why doesnt God speak anymore? Give us great signs?
The way I see it is this. If you look back through the history of man kind, and what was reported about our interaction with God, you can see how the forms of interaction has changed. It is my opinion, that God has interacted with us, in varying ways, at various times through our history.
Reveleations, deals with this I think, when it describes the different churches. It isnt different churches I think as much as it is refering to different periods of time.
When a child is born, the parents will treat it differently as it ages and enters into different stages of aging. As a baby, the parent does literally everything for that bay, as a toddler more functions are done by the child him/ her self and gradually over time till that child is an adult and the parent steps back completely.
I think God treats us the same way. When man kind was first created, every thing had to be done for man as he had no one to teach him about life. Now days, we have all sorts of examples from our shared expierience and history to guide us. Wasnt true 10,000 years ago.
Also, if a person believes the bible is inspired of God, then they will believe there will one day be a judgement day where we will account for what we have done on this earth. I think God has planned a lot of answers for us on that day. There will be those who claim as a defence that God never gave them a chance to think for themselves, well God will be able to point that man kind was rebellious and sinned even when a period of total free will was in place. People from the "free will " era" ( today I believe ) might claim, "but God, you didnt show us great works and talk to us"!. Well, Reveleations reveals that after Christ returns, rules the earth him self for a thousand years , there will still be some who are rebellious towards his will. He can then point to those from that era and say he had even tried that ,yet some of man kind still rebelled.
I think that today, is a complete period of Free Will granted to us by God. He wants to know what his creation will do before he returns . This is what I think, I am far from being a scholar in the field , undoubtably there are those far more knowledgeable than my self on the subject and I look forward to being " corrected" by those who are more knowledgeable. | |
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 5/27/2008 7:53:25 AM | | He speaks now... through the gift of prophesy. search for "Church of God Ministry of Jesus Christ International" and you will find Him. | |
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 5/30/2008 12:12:32 AM | | I definitely agree with the free will aspect, but people were talking to god in a much more intimate and everyday fashion for alot longer than there were messiahs. Check out shamanism. It seems like over the last 200,000 years we have been listening less and less. Those that do listen have become rarer, and since listening to god seems to make life much more interesting, intense, and beautiful, those folks are regarded as either lunatics or saviors by the increasing number of mundane beings. | |
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| Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
Posted: 6/5/2008 11:02:19 PM | Why Doesn't God Speak Anymore?
My dad told me , That I Was a Fool for leaving a good job. I went to preach the gospel, this infuriated my father. I had come to the conclusion that I might have made a huge mistake leaving my job with no promise of our next meal. I went into the bedroom after talking with a pastor whom I had just met a few hours earlier. It was 3:30 am Sunday morning. I had not told my wife, but I knew we couldn’t make it like this, something had to happen and quick, I couldn’t sleep, couldn’t eat and my nerves we’re shot. I went in the room with my wife in the bed asleep and my son on a pallat. I fell down to my knees and started crying. My fist we’re clinched and I was hitting the floor and
, ,(( I prayed to God and said)),
that I couldn’t take it no more, I’m through, I’m going home, I’ll start my life over and most of all I’ll face my father, tell him he was right, I am a fool having my wife and son out here and not making enough to feed my face let alone my wife and child and him in diapers. I went to bed, laid down and was so tired I went right to sleep and as soon as I did I heard a loud voice saying,
, ( I Am With You )
Now I would love to tell you that my response was, ((Here am I lord, send me)) but that’s not true. I sat up quickly looked at my wife who was asleep and said angrily, what are you doing hollering at me. She lifted up her head and with a puzzling look asked me what I was talking about. Being startled and not thinking about the words that was said I looked at my son and then around the room and seen nothing, shrugged my shoulders and knew I was more stressed out than I thought. I laid down and started to dose off when a loud slow voice said ,
, ,( I AM WITH YOU ),
Again I sat up and looked at my wife expecting to see her sitting up and talking in her sleep, yes she has been know to talk while sleeping when she is real tried. But there she was asleep like sleeping beauty and Matthew my son still laying on the floor and hasn’t moved. I looked around the room again, sure to see someone but not a person in site. I thought, ,,,wow,,,,, then laid back down, closed my eyes and this time I hadn’t fell asleep, when suddenly a (( BREATH )) hit the side of my face and a voice literally rattled my ear. I sat up instantly, I knew I wasn’t asleep, I felt the wind, I heard the voice and My Ear Did Rattle, someone spoke within inches of my head and he said
, ( Bruce, I AM WITH YOU ) !
This time he also called my name. I didn’t look at my wife or son, I knew it was the God speaking. At this time I remembered the words that was spoken. I Am with You. Writing this I know that god can speak, he’s not dead but ALIVE. He can and will talk to you, either by his voice or angel’s or dreams or prophet or word of knowledge or prophesy. He will Speak to you!! No we did not go home the next day, I did not have to tell my father he was right, we did make it in ministry. No things did not change right away. ((The facts )) we’re that Jehovah Jirah , (My Lord, My Provider) was with me. God Bless | |
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