|
|
|
|
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/27/2009 1:09:42 PM | I would just like the opportunity to sum up the comments I made before where I'm convinced the majority of you out there think I was too hard on poor Michael. I am truly impressed with how you've expressed yourselves so passionately and poetically. It is certainly notable how one man (entertainer) could inspire such a reaction from so many people. It's true. He was a fantastic musican.
My thing is, if we don't hold him accountable for something like this, what do we hold people like him accountable for? You fans don't know if he did or didn't do it for sure either. If he did what he was accused of, doesn't this make a mockery of our justice system? (and us as good moral people?) Doesn't that bother you? How can you pretend it just didn't happen? How can a man that's $400 million in debt have his BMW towed to the hospital? I guess I'm one of the minority here to ask questions. Maybe the people who feel the way I do are afraid to speak. I can understand why. It's like MJ is some kind of a religion or something.
Now, JOHN LENNON, there was a man! Definitely imperfect also. But let's not forget that John literally put his life at risk protesting the Vietnam war with Yoko! FOR US! That's the definiton of a humanitarian! Not some guy who only cares what the public thinks of him so he can get some more of our money! | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/27/2009 1:13:06 PM | Michael Jackon's death is primarily a loss to his kids and his family.
His fans, of which there are millions, will grieve and celebrate his life, and many of them will convey "sainthood" status on this extremely talented man.
I admit I was a fan of some of his music. As far as black artists go, however, I much preferred Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, the Tops and the Tempts, probably because they were more soul than pop (though Stevie did cross over to pop a bit). I could listen to "What's Goin On?" all day long. Ditto with the Best of the Tempts. But as much as I enjoyed Thriller, if I played that album more than once, maybe twice, in one sitting, my ears would hurt.
I could enjoy watching the Thriller video or Beat It or Billy Jean, but I found The Tempts doing "My Girl" on Ed Sullivan to be a more moving experience, same with watching Marvin sing Mercy Mercy Me on Motown's 25th anniversary special.
I guess what I'm driving at is Jackson was the kind of artist whose musical appeal was not all that great IN THE LONG RUN, and I certainly doubt in 20 or 30 years people will have the same critical appraisal of it, compared to The Beatles, Elvis, Sinatra and other true musical icons.
So, all you fans... grieve for MJ, and celebrate his life, but I urge you to get some perspective, please. | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/27/2009 2:07:34 PM | Anyone who can die $400,000,000 in debt deserves a lot 0f admiration --- even if he was one of the most bizarre characters of the late 20th century.
He really should NEVER haven opened at that VISA bill. 
As Neil Young said: better to burn out -- than to fade away. | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/27/2009 2:25:38 PM | The best comparison can be between Michael Jackson and Elvis.
These are two popular icons who died early consumed by their own indulgences. Both held prisoner by the very people who should have protected them.
Elvis was trapped and never allowed to explore his own creative freedom. He was a cash-cow for those who milked him for their own purposes. If he'd been allowed to grow as an artist he probably would have avoided the fate of a wasted drug-addled has-been ending on a toilet seat.
Michael Jackson welcomed his isolation and the freedom to play out his fantasy life. With an unending supply of money, he morphed himself from a black male into a white woman and all the attendant trivial qualms.
No one said NO to him. No one could afford to risk their own livelihood by upsetting the " King of Pop ".
If you read the history of the emperors of ancient Rome you will wonder at how they got away with all the personal cruelty and extravagances ? People like Elvis and MJ are like modern versions of Tiberius and Caligula.
Those people who form the whole gauntlet of protectors and enablers depend upon their lord for their own standard of living. Nothing like a paycheck to keep peoples mouths shut !
When these same people are standing there crying at the funeral you should wonder about what they are mourning for.
The loss of Michael Jackson, or the loss of their jobs and their gravy train ? | |
|
| |
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/27/2009 3:13:13 PM |
RIP Michael. A flawed genius but his music will live on forever.
Music live on forever? Really? I'm not inclined to believe that.
As far as popular memory or sustainment in popular consciousness, I seriously doubt few, if any, of his tunes will have as much "staying power" as say "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" or "Auld Lang Syne".
Then again, who knows...maybe in the year 2059, people will still be tapping their toes to "Billie Jean".  | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/27/2009 3:36:24 PM | Markwing68
You're right if you are trying to say that society is a fickle bunch with a low attention span! lol I, like you, enjoy old soul artist like Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder. I don't believe that Marvin is still being plastered all over the place either but his music like any talent is still accessible based on marketing nostalgia just like MJs will be. Any music that ever made an impact will be in popular consciousness because people always believe that if it's old and was once popular then it's "classic". So outside of arguments about artistic merit which is impossible to prove/disprove outside of preference, Micheal Jackson will forever hold relevance because art and commerce is forever carried by us as part of societys nostalgia. | |
|
| |
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/27/2009 4:06:08 PM |
You're right if you are trying to say that society is a fickle bunch with a low attention span! lol I, like you, enjoy old soul artist like Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder. I don't believe that Marvin is still being plastered all over the place either but his music like any talent is still accessible based on marketing nostalgia just like MJs will be. Any music that ever made an impact will be in popular consciousness because people always believe that if it's old and was once popular then it's "classic". So outside of arguments about artistic merit which is impossible to prove/disprove outside of preference, Micheal Jackson will forever hold relevance because art and commerce is forever carried by us as part of societys nostalgia.
I don't believe when that poster said MJ's music will "live forever" she was referring to simply "artistic relevance." If she did, the statement is perfunctory or arbitrary. Anyone who has achieved even a modicum of fame or popularity "lives on" so to speak. The notion implied by that poster was that Jackson's music was so impactful as to be timeless.. or at least that's the inference I drew.
Certainly, the tunes will last in the popular consciousness. My point was not of kind but of degree. In due time, I predict songs like "Human Nature" and "Man in the Mirror" will be as popular as "Making Whoopee" and "Puttin on the Ritz" are today. | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/27/2009 4:30:13 PM | Mark you are very negative about his music. I find some of the statements hard to believe considering all the records he has broken with his music. Mainly having THE most purchased album in all of music history. And didn't that album net him eight grammies.
I like your selections for music too. All Motown. Did you forget that The Jackson Five were a big part of that Motown experience. And much of their early stuff was very Temptation like???
The sheer number of hit singles and best selling albums in his repetoire is testament that his legacy will live on. Every time there is a ''greatest music videos of all time'' countdown,"Thriller" will always be number one. Because it led the way. Most of the relevent artists of today making decent R and B and pop music site Jackson as a huge influence. I was around for the birth of MTV. A big complaint was that they didn't play black artists. Michael broke down those racial barriers at MTV. He became THE biggest artist on MTV. And if you listen to the people who worked with Michael, including Berry Gordy, founder of Motown, they all say the same thing, Musical genius, visionary, perfectionist, creative giant. He has his hands on all aspects of his music, choreogaphy, videos, road shows. His concern was to give the fans the best show of their lives. And he pulled it off again and again.
I listened to the Jackson five as a kid. And as a teen I listened to Michael. When my daughter was born, she was brought up on all the music I liked. When she has kids, I will have those grandkids dancing to Michael (and other of my favorites of course).
I teach middle school. And sometimes when I'm playing oldies in my room, the kids are clueless, until a Michael Jackson song comes on. They all know who he is, they know the songs....even after all these years, he is still relevant. When I go dancing at the club....they are sure to play at least two or three Michael songs in one night.
It's been mentioned a few times in the last few days that NO ONE is as well known in ALL corners of the world as Michael. Michael Jordan and Michael Jackson were once said to be the most recognizable names world wide. Jackson's appeal didn't stop at our border, he was a worldwide phenomenon.
YES, whether you believe it or not....he IS as big as The Beatles and Elvis. | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/27/2009 4:49:42 PM |
YES, whether you believe it or not....he IS as big as The Beatles and Elvis.
I choose not to believe that. If this were a matter of records being sold, then Hall & Oates would be more popular than they currently are. Mariah Carey has broken records, too. It doesn't translate to longevity in peoples' minds.
As for the album that has sold more copies than any other... it isn't "Thriller"... not anymore. Do you know the name of that album?
All of this is moot, because I wasn't being "negative" as you put it. What I was doing was discounting this messianic attachment to a popular artist who, I believe, will not be remembered with the same zeal in future years as say the Beatles or Elvis are TODAY.
In 1977, virtually EVERYONE was stunned to hear of Elvis' death. A few years later, John Lennon's departure affected millions, as well (as though in Lennon's case, the loss was attributed not only to his musical genius but also his symbol as a man for peace).
Michael Jackson was extremely talented, a showman extraordinaire, but the reverence shown to him by his most die-hard fans today is NOTHING like that given to Elvis or Lennon.
I'm not being negative....merely objective. | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/27/2009 5:01:56 PM | Wanted to clarify. Thriller has sold more copies WORLDWIDE than any other album, but it is not the largest selling album in the United States.*
Also, to extend this comparison of popularity to an absurd degree, I'll concede that Michael Jackson's passing has had the greatest impact on the public than that of any other celebrity as soon as it's reported that his death has resulted in suicide by a number of his fans (with apologies to Rudolph Valentino).
*The Eagles Greatest Hits Volume I holds that honor. | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/27/2009 5:36:47 PM | Yeah he was as big as The Beatles back in the day. whether you like it or not. His influence is unmeasurable. If you choose to focus on the negative and miss his wide body of music, it's your loss. Yeah, he had a pretty tragic life but that shouldn't have overshadowed his massive talent.
Thriller, Off The Wall, and Bad, are among some of the finest pieces of music out there, i'm pretty sure they all show up on Top lists, at least in Rolling Stone.
R. I. P. MJ, you couldn't get peace on Earth, but you'll find peace in the afterlife, I'm sure. | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/27/2009 5:44:57 PM | Which is even more testement to his popularity. Worldwide sales are more important for an artist to have staying power and be labeled an ICON. When I looked up his awards and achievments that he amassed over his lifetime it's amazing.
Off the Wall and Bad are up there too with the best selling albums of all time as well.
Oh and you mentioned John Lennon. Sean Lennon was one of the many celebrity children to hang out at Graceland.
But hey if you don't like his music, that's fine. The rest of us definitely recognize the talent he was. When you watch their audition tape you can see it even at that early of an age...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ks1ReegnQw
He was born a star. And he will always be a star. Of enormity, around the globe...not just the US. | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/27/2009 5:46:32 PM | OMG I said graceland....CNN was asking if Neverland would turn into a Graceland...but it's been dismantled. I had Graceland on the brain.
Oh interesting tidbit. We have an elephant at our zoo named Ali....who Michael gave to us as a gift. I got to work with that elephant when i volunteered...it was very cool. | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/27/2009 6:06:59 PM |
But hey if you don't like his music, that's fine. The rest of us definitely recognize the talent he was. When you watch their audition tape you can see it even at that early of an age...
You are letting your fanatical devotion cloud your perspective. Where did I say I didn't like his music? I did and do, but I also prefer to keep a sane perspective.
You want to make this a contest of popularity, when I tell you very simply that popularity is fleeting.
To be clear, Jackson was a talent, a phenomenal performer, even a child prodigy, but a musical "genius" he never was. He was not gifted with genius as say Mozart was. MJ was a promoter of himself, and therein was his greatest skill. Madonna is a lot like that, but the enormity of their success doesn't equal genius.
By all means, CHERISH him and remember the effect his music and performances had on your lives... if that's your desire, but please, don't lionize him for something he was not.
I am not a fan of Kurt Cobain... not of his music in the least, but you know what... as a musician, Cobain was a genius. So was Bob Dylan (can take him or leave him).
Think about that. I do not care for their music, but I am willing to admit these 2 people are geniuses.
On the other hand, I think "PYT" is a zippy and catchy tune, and I will crank it up and sing along if I happen to hear it on the car radio. I will also get a huge kick and am in awe whenever I see a video of Michael Jackson's moonwalking on stage.
Nevertheless, as overall talent goes, Michael Jackson couldn't hold a candle to a Todd Rundgren (a true musical genius).
So, again, I urge you not to conflate popularity and record sales and grammy wins into an overinflated sense of greatness.
Simply put, I will give Michael Jackson his due, but I refuse to give him more than that.
----
By the way, note that none of my criticisms, either perceived or real, had anything to do with Jackson's characterological issues. I say this to underscore my objectivity.  | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/27/2009 9:42:01 PM | Was Michael Jackson the greatest? This debate will go on for years. Everybody has an opinion and that's what makes our society great. Yet I find the things that are being said about the man being this and that and people name calling is very sad when in fact there is no proof whatsoever in these allegations" In fact he was judged not guilty not once but twice.
We have lost one hell of an entertainer though and this is what many people seem to not look at. Why is it that when someone who is famous and in the media eye will always have someone out there who belittles them and anyone who admired them is wrong or is a so and so? Let's face the facts. The #1 singles he had. The charities that he gave to. His heading the "We Are the World" song with Lionel Richie.
As I said in the deleted post, let's remember that in the long run MJ was a father, brother, son and friend of many. He was also an entertainer that put a smile on many peoples faces. I applaud that and admire that.
So let's try and stick on the subject of a simple farewell to a man who might have been a bit eccentric, but gave a lot of himself. We seem to forget that entertainers such as him, Elvis, John Lennon all gave up their "personal freedoms" in order to entertain us. Did they do it for the money and fame as well...sure..I have no doubt about this, but once they attained it I have no doubt that to a degree they may have wished they never had it. Personally I would rather be happy and poor and unknown then miserable, rich and famous.
In closing all I can say is thank you to all the entertainers of the world. Thank you Elvis. Thank you John. Thank you Frank. And thank you Michael for what you gave to this world. You all will be missed. Maybe not by all, but by one hell of a lot. Rest in peace. | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/27/2009 9:43:16 PM | You cannot equate MJ to Mozart...different times, different abilities, different mediums available to each. To equate even Modonna to MJ isn't the same. Yes, they both are in the same time frames, but realistically, Madonna is far more promotion than ability. Like Spears, if you didn't know the title of her songs, you'd think Madonna was singing the same song time after time - her range just isn't there and neither is her imagination - what she tends to sell is strictly based on the fact that she's female and one with a name that tends to shock the shockable. Her only equality with MJ is that she can promote, not that she has talent.
When touting someone's "genious", it's best to be objective, rather than subjective. Because you happen to like something better from one individual as opposed to another does not, by that mere preference, equate to "genius". Be careful how you choose to dole it out. You may not "like" them and consider them a genius, but that doesn't also make it so. What is it about them that makes them "genius"?
Where one gives one artist there due, I don't - and vice versa...what is the definitive line - what is the criteria other than the popularity that some people tend to dismiss? | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/28/2009 1:22:16 AM | Uhhhhh....
A little dude who shares in common with places like K-Mart that has kid's pants half off....
Who sings a song named "Beat It" while wearing a single glove...
LONG LIVE FARRAH FAWCETT!!!!
She was straight, even though she didn't garner the attention Wacko-Jacko(ff) did, and deserves much more of our support and sympathy than a man who, in spite of his eccentricities, made an adult choice to sleep with children who can describe his penis... What a dumbass mother****er....
Farrah was lots smarter than THAT, and I'm real sorry if she happened to be white and blonde, not black, gay, and dumb as a fookin' rock when it came to common sense matters of mind and groin. Someone oughta kick the shit outta Joseph Jackson, the father, who via his tyrannical means of parenting, made a shell of a man and a monster of an adult out of the child HE should have nutured to emotional health...
No sympathy for a man who made impulsive, childish choices. Not from me, anyway. Even IF his folks screwed up, he was adult enough, and RICH enough to have found a way for himself, to better mental standing and judgement.
There's no damned excuse in the world for a grown man to be $400,000,000 in debt and screwin' little boys up the butt. Just plain WRONG!!!
No excuses, from ANY quarter...
-damoN- | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/28/2009 8:12:50 AM | not a fan of Kurt Cobain... not of his music in the least, but you know what... as a musician, Cobain was a genius. So was Bob Dylan
I'd readily put Micheal Jackson lyrics up against those of Cobain, Dylan or Lennons. Micheal Jackson's appreciation and admiration was GLOBAL; MULTI-continental not basically a US or Eurocentric base. Unlike Valentino, Elvis and Lennon, Micheal Jackson's music/performances/art crossed ethnicities and cultures like that of no other "pop"/Rock artist....EVER.
So what if an American or some Americans didn't like him. Millions of Chinese did and do. Millions of Indians did and do. Millions of Ethiopians did and do. Millions of Itallians did and do. Millions of Kenyans did and do. Millions of Cubans did and do. Millions of West Indians did and do. Millions of Nowegians did and do. Millions of Congoese did and do. Millions of Slavs and Croats did and do. Millions of Japanese did and do. Millions of Russians did and do. Millions of Canadians did and do. Millions of Hatians did and do. Millions of Americans(US) did and do. Millions of Germans did and do. Millions of Brazillians did and do. Millions of Mexicans did and do. Millions of Egyptians did and do. Millions of South Africans did and do.
Lets face it, everyone is different. Everyone is not going to like ANYONE the same or at all. However, as pop/rock/musical performers go.....Michael Jacksons global popularity and stature places him at the top.
As far as sales are concerned, Hall and Oates enjoyed a very BRIEF popularity of less than a decade. Even the Elvis,Beatles in fact rode an explosive wave of popularity for RockNRoll music as it was introduced to people of European roots. It was situational, due to the social dysfunction of that era in the USA which has lessened today(still exist but not nearly to the same degree). The music had of course been around and popular in African American communities for decades and therefore the boom wasn't nearly as great and they never enjoyed that type of popularity as a result in those communities. Elvis was really little more than the Vanilla Ice of Rock n Roll. His popularity was about the momment in time in which an apartheid USA used him to embrace a musical art form that had been around for decades in African American communities but didnt want to market it as such. Samp Phillips of Sun records said "could make a fortune if he could find a white singer with a black feel" 3 years later he found Elvis.
Lennon's music turned out hits for a couple of decades. I respect Lennon's music/lyrics. I say IF he was a genius so was Michael Jackson clearly. Micheal Jackson's spaned FIVE DECADES!What other musical artist made NEW music that produced hits in FIVE DECADES? Micheal Jackson's thriller album is the greatest selling album in music history. His Dangerous, Bad and Off the Wall are all among the worlds best selling albums. Thriller is by FAR the best selling album in the world, it sold THREE TIMES more than The Eagles Greatest hits(which is weak outside the USA). Thriller is by far the best selling NON COMPILATION album in the USA .
Michael made business decisions that will likely leave his family with a large fortune forever. Moreover as ALL reports are that his children are extremely well balanced, well read, intelligent, kind, considerate, respectful, spiritual individuals speaks more for Micheal Jackson than any amount of sells or even donations.....that is his greatest performance. Anyone famous or not who is a great father/parent is a GREAT PERSON. | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/28/2009 8:54:20 AM |
You cannot equate MJ to Mozart...different times, different abilities, different mediums available to each.
Actually, I think you mean you cannot "compare" MJ to Mozart...
That being said, that is exactly what people have been doing, when they "equate", "compare" or "liken" Jackson to Elvis or to the Beatles or to Jesus Christ.
It's silly to try to compare respective talents of these people (e.g., was MJ a better dancer than Amadeus? Was Amadeus a better composer?).
To placate his devotees, I will acknowledge that Michael Jackson's 137 honorifics, including the millions of albums in sales, the multiple grammy awards, inductions in hall of fame render him a permanent spot in the hearts and minds of legions of fans.
Moreover, I truly wished he had lived and was able to have his 50-concert comeback. I would even have loved to see him perform, as I was and am a fan.
However, please forgive me if I don' t view him with the same insane adulation as others do.
When touting someone's "genious", it's best to be objective, rather than subjective. Because you happen to like something better from one individual as opposed to another does not, by that mere preference, equate to "genius".
This certainly isn't in reference to me, because that's what I essentially stated.
Be careful how you choose to dole it out. You may not "like" them and consider them a genius, but that doesn't also make it so. What is it about them that makes them "genius"?
Mozart was a genius because at the age of 3, he was not only musically literate, but he was able to compose complicated and intricate music beyond the artistry of gifted peers.
Michael Jackson was gifted because at the age of 7 or 9, he could sing and dance with the flair of a Sammy Davis Jr.
The two were each a child prodigy, but Amadeus was genius, whereas Jackson was precocious.
Therein is the definition of genius. Put another way, say you were a visitor of the elder Mozarts' home and you witnessed a 5-year-old Wolfgang composing an opera, chances are you would be in awe and perhaps find yourself in utter disbelief as to what you saw. Contrast that with watching little 8-year-old Michael Jackson strutting and singing on the stage like a veteran showman. I think there would be amazement and an appreciation of the lad's incredible performance skills, but I don't think the word "genius" would come to mind.
That's being objective.
what is the criteria other than the popularity that some people tend to dismiss?
That's been my point. I don't "equate" popularity with genius. Rudolph Valentino was a lousy actor by most standards, but he was sure one incredibly popular dude. | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/28/2009 10:10:25 AM | I am not letting anything cloud my judgement. You simply have to turn on the tv and see all these performers/producers/musicians who worked with him at some point in his career, be it as a boy or man who are singing his praises that he was indeed a musical genius.
Pop music may be something you don't equate genius with. But the melodies and beats that he came up with, and helped produce were indeed genius. And maybe it takes a ''dancer'' to appreicate them...or someone who does think ''pop'' music is a valid art form. And for a man to write, cowrite, produce or coproduce so many Top 10 and Number 1 songs, that has to say something about his genius. If nothing more, he knows a great melody and hook that is going to touch people and make them want to hear the song over and over.
Of course Mozart was a genuis with classical music...as was Beethoven...both considered eccentric and ''off'' in their time periods. Lennon and McCartney also geniuses at songwriting. Elvis was a genius showman. Prince is a genius producer and musician. Eddie Van Halen, Slash, Jimi Hendrix, and Steve Stevens are genius guitar players. Bob Dylan a genuis songwriter (but I don't listen to his music)....There are a lot of people I give credit to who I don't even listen to.
As for old Rudy Valentino I've never seen him described as a genius. Only a gorgeous guy who made women swoon.
And for the idiot spouting off at the mouth about Jackson and boys.
You should first learn about pedophiles. One does need to be gay to be a pedophile, and it's that type of stupidity that kept gays down for so long. (Watch "Milk" for more info on that). Pedophiles are sexually attracted to children. They usually have a specific age range and sex that they go for. Like R Kelly (caught on video) liked girls who were around 14-16. Many pedophiles who prey on boys also are married with kids of their own. So ''Gay'' has nothing to do with pedophelia. Read a book and get a clue. Again it's stupid generalizations like this that perpetuate and allow pedophiles to continue to do what they do. No one suspects that ''great family man'' of being a pedophile. Not the boy scout leader and surely not the priest. Or that woman who's dad is a preacher.
Secondly, Michael was never accused of having sex with boys. Even the accusers said he only touched them inappropriately and masturbated them. Those were the charges.....and also providing alcohol to minors. (which frankly I've seen a lot of parents do). He was acquitted on all charges. ALL charges. Meaning a jury. made up of 8 women and 4 men found him not guilty based on the evidence. The mother involved was said to not only have tried to get money out of Micheal but Jay Leno and Chris Tucker also testified that she asked them for money as well.
Now one person yesterday said he told Michael (after the first case) not to continue these behaviors (having kids sleepover) that were putting him at risk for these charges. And Michael feeling as though he was doing nothing wrong, kept on...putting himself at risk. That was a huge mistake on his part. And he really can only blame himself on that end. However, if the charges were true, and he had been molesting kids and his family, friends, workers , and the kids parents knew about it, and did nothing....then they are just as much to blame. I'm sorry but if I even suspect a kid is being abused, then I'm on the phone with authorities.
One thing that hasn't been addressed with the pain killers is his dancing. I have been a dancer since I was little. And in the past seven years have really danced more than ever. It takes it's toll on ones body. I read an article once where Mikhail Barishnokov said he couldn't get out of bed without first popping pills from all the damage he'd done from dancing. I have pains in my hip. So I wonder if aside from all the surgeries and other issues, if dancing so much his whole life also contributed to his pain. | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/28/2009 10:22:25 AM | The funny thing is Markwing, you say my devotion clouds my mind. Michael is not even one of my ''favorites'' of all times. He's up there, me being a child of the 80's and growing up with the Jackson 5. I just recognize the genius.
Trust me my true favorites were never considered and will not be considered geniuses. But it's what I personally like most of all. | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/28/2009 12:04:23 PM | I gotta comment on these-
Every time there is a ''greatest music videos of all time'' countdown,"Thriller" will always be number one. Because it led the way.
A giant pet peeve of mine. "Greatest music video of all time"? Reflexively everyone likes to say "Thriller"- but it ain't. MJ was handed over $1 million, a studio director (John Landis), and a 17 minute running time. And you're comparing every other video- most of which are shot in a day for less than a 10th of the money- to that? Apples and oranges. "Thriller" is a one-time extravaganza that Jackson earned by selling some 10 million or so records up to THAT point. But the 3 ZZ Top videos off the "Eliminator" album of that year (1983) are better than the "Thriller" video.
I was around for the birth of MTV. A big complaint was that they didn't play black artists. Michael broke down those racial barriers at MTV. He became THE biggest artist on MTV.
I was around for the birth of MTV too. I mentioned this in my last post- the playlist of MTV, as it was set up, was not about playing music that nearly every black artist performed. If you listened to an AOR station you didn't hear Marvin Gaye and if you listened to a station playing "new wave" you didn't hear Parliment. MTV gave way on these formats to Jackson AND Prince- though to be honest, Price was performing music closer to their format at that time.
By the time of the height of MJ's popularity- 1983/84 - there were more videos to play. When MTV started in 1981, a lot of "popular" acts didn't do videos, and a good many of the videos that were done were either simply concert footage or cheap shoots of a band in a room (think "Start Me Up"). It was primarly the British new wave acts that came up with the really interesting and ambitious videos. Six months before "Thriller" Duran Duran made a huge investment in their "Rio" videos and it paid off. Jackson was following THEIR lead, and by the time "Thriller" was a year and a half old, nearly ever act had a video to go with their release. Thus MTV tweaked their format and played more pop, and yes, more black acts. But it wasn't singularly a Michael Jackson acheivement- that's simply a statement that keeps getting tossed out by people who don't know or remember the whole story.
YES, whether you believe it or not....he IS as big as The Beatles and Elvis.
Nope. Absolutely, positively not.
First off, there is simply no comparison to the chart dominance of the Beatles. They had, like, 5 "Thrillers". They operated in a different era, where singles would come out faster and albums sold less (hell- they redefined the idea of a rock album with "Sgt. Peppers"), but nobody since 1970 can touch their 6 year run, starting in 1964. And nobody since Elvis has cast a shadow he did in his first 5 years. He defined Pop Star, in a way that even Sinatra did not.
And most critically, there is a line Before Elvis and After. The same with the Beatles. And Bob Dylan. MJ sold more records than Bob Dylan, but Dylan had a greater effect on the culture- he pretty much created the idea of the singer/songwriter in modern pop music, one that was concerned with artistry, not record sales. In contrast, Michael Jackson had a 2 year period of intense popularity and fandom that approached Elvis levels, bookended by a solid career before and a lot of fame after. The truly delirious MJ fans keep coming here and posting the same old propaganda, and there's little hope for a reality-based discussion with them. Check back in 100 years and you'll see- any talk of pop music in the 2nd half of the 20th century will start with Elvis, Dylan, and the Beatles- and Michael Jackson will be known as a popular and famous guy with a bunch of good songs. | |
|
| Goodbye Michael Jackson..................
Posted: 6/28/2009 4:25:18 PM |
First off, there is simply no comparison to the chart dominance of the Beatles. They had, like, 5 "Thrillers". Thats nonesense. Name the "like 5 "thrillers". Compare their sales. Compare their domination of charts....ALL CHARTS..."rock", "Pop", "R&B". Compare the numbers of fans GLOBALLY from various cultures and ethnicities.
but nobody since 1970 can touch their 6 year run, starting in 1964. And nobody since Elvis has cast a shadow he did in his first 5 years. In terms of what? What would you use as the criteria here? In terms of sheer volume of sales MJ wins hands down! In terms of sold out concerts and sales and numbers of tickets sales/concert goers MJ wins hands down! Knockout! In terms global fanbase, cross cultural fanbase,multi-ethnic fanbase MJ exterminates ALL BEATLES and Elvis(the mere Vanilla Ice of RockNRoll). Note you compare a relative flash in the pan in terms of time also(MJ nonetheless murders that competition regardless). Look at their careers and hits over the decades. Michael Jackson has had new HITS in FIVE DECADES yet you mention nonesense of a 5 yr span! Domination? A burp in the shceme of music history. The Beatles are significant for sure(certainly not as much many posters on these forums claim however). Elvis is significant only in the sense of the ultra racist times in the USA. In a real sense however, he is little more than the Vanilla Ice of Rock n Roll.
Micheal Jackson had 13 #1 hits as a SOLO artist. This is not to mention the many mega hits as a part of a group or in duet. MJ had a number of top 10 hits in addition to that. Jackson's hits have been from the 60's(1968)-2003. Thing is, the man accomplished all that in less than 50yrs! Hits in FIVE DECADES in less than 50yrs of life. Over 10 #1 hits in the span of 10 years.
MJ sold more records than Bob Dylan, but Dylan had a greater effect on the culture Jackson sold more than Dylan,Elvis and the Beatles combined. Your contintion that Dylan had more of an affect on culture has no merit. Prove it! Never have seen Dylans style of dress, dance copied by so many people.
same old propaganda Exactly the sum of all that nonesense about Elvis(the early Vanilla Ice) and Dylan and even the beatles....propaganda. The facts paint a different story.
The very fact that you TRY(poorly) to compare Elvis and Dylan to MJ automatically places him in a class among the best even in the faulted perception you present. | |
|
|
| Page 3 of 12
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 |
|
Home
login 
