|
|
|
|
|
| |
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/26/2009 5:27:24 PM | Police are investigating Michael Jacksons death, they're sure the sunlight, the moonlight and the good times are not involved, so they're blaming it on the boogie
But seriously folks, this whole situation is really not funny…
Because he’s up there with baby Jesus right now. | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/26/2009 6:18:59 PM |
How many men do you know have sleepovers with young boys and have them stay in their bed?
How many men do you know who were performing in front of audiences and touring since the age of 5, and went on to become internationally famous for their incredible talent, and lived a life of constantly being treated like a commodity? He hasn't lived a life like men any of us might know, and he has different experiences and different perceptions. He related better to kids, and probably found comfort in their presence. And also, as was pointed out, these were kids he built up a friendship with, not kids he'd just met that day. To him, they were friends.
he stated that it's totally normal and ok to have young boys in your bed
It is normal and OK if you are cuddling them. It's just become a cultural thing with us that people assume touch is always sexually inclined. With some people you can't even say the word "touch" without them immediately thinking of "touching" in an inappropriate sense and ignoring all the other types of human contact that bring comfort and warmth and closeness and have nothing to do with sex.
Some cultures view our approach of making kids sleep in separate beds, and separate rooms, as ....cold...and mean. But of course we're not...cos we invented all these things that we can put in an infant's cage, I mean crib, and in kids' rooms that will artificially replicate the experience of sleeping with an adult or of feeling safe, warm and loved.
but....offering money as opposed to gaining justice also speaks volumes to me.
Actually, regardless of right or wrong, and in the world of business, legal teams often advise that of businesses where it is deemed the cost of adverse publicity would exceed the pain of paying money to someone making false accusations. MJ was a business. The human being got buried underneath. ...So I still ask why those parents were operating at a business level in accepting money to shutup, when clearly any parent who really believed their kid had been molested would be operating at a very human level and, you would think, would spit on the very idea of receiving dirty money from a man who molested their kids. It just doesn't gel with me. | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/26/2009 7:15:08 PM | I liked some of his earlier music but I've never really given him much thought. Until the allegations over children began.
I think it's probably good that he died suddenly. As one poster pointed out on the US thread about MJ, can you imagine him "growing old gracefully"? I mean it would be kind of creepy.
He has left behind some great music that his fans can still groove to, so all is not lost.
R.I.P. Michael. | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/26/2009 7:57:50 PM |
Perhaps those parents weighed up the pros and cons of putting their children through something like giving evidence in a court of law and being cross questioned by unscrupulous lawyers versus accepting a sizeable sum of compensatory monies which would go towards alleviating their children's horror at the realisation that they were abused and that they were only guilty of being star struck enough to allow that man to behave inappropriately towards them and nothing more.
Perhaps (correct me if I am wrong) you should check the judicial protocol when it comes to handling children within a court of law.... particularly in the case of suspected child abuse.... I think that you will find that America are more stringent with this than even we are here in Australia. These children would not of had to stand on a platform and have the "unscrupulous" lawyers cross examine them....that only happens in movies. Unless of course the child chose too ...in which case the judge would not allow this unless the childs counsellor/psychologist AOK'd it ...... Regardless, it is not something that would happen without a lot of thought and communication put forth first.
Another case scenario...Perhaps Jackson himself weighed up the pro's and con's of what these kids would have to go through in regard to publicity, shame, their families turmoil and offered the money to shut it down quickly .... for them... the kids......... to allow normality to return to their lives... and in actual fact he probably enjoyed giving the money to these kids....who knows..... we can only surmise..... | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/26/2009 8:09:45 PM |
he stated that it's totally normal and ok to have young boys in your bed It is normal and OK if you are cuddling them.
If there your OWN kids, yer sure.totally normal, and believe a necessary parental practice. but someone else kids in your bed and your cuddling them..
I dont know what cultures who cuddle there friends children in their bed, but kimbie I say its sick.
regardless of right or wrong ?? nope, I think its about clearing your name...
taking 20 million of a man while isn't the same as jail time, it sure as hell implies punishment..and am sure the parents would have felt they won on all fronts.
If i win 90million on tuesday, and someone tried extorsion on me, some things i would pay em out on.
like being caught naked with a bowl of jelly = pay em out.
accusing me of funneling your stormwater drain into the neighbours yard = pay em out
throwing a mobile phone at a receptionist = pay em out
BUT you accuse me of fiddling with kids, thats a whole new story and the worst of the worst..even if you lost in court, an innocent man would never surrender.
those who think he wasn't guilty of fiddling with kids i ask you this:
would you have left your children with him for a sleep over. | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/26/2009 8:17:46 PM | I liked the entertainer, I try not to think of the bad things.
But what about the people close to him that never said no, and the doctors that messed his face up? What happened to first do no harm? (or is that a movie thing?) Or the doctor that doped him up everyday?
If he had real friends, family and doctors, he wouldn't have been so weird. He grew up alone and died alone. | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/26/2009 8:19:20 PM | how on earth you can justify a man's desire to cuddle children by likening that desire to a natural way of behaviour when you are living in the third world
The point is, our aversion to the idea is steeped in our (recent) culture, not because it is actually a bad thing to do. Besides, it's not only in the third world that adults and kids sleeping together is deemed quite normal:
- According to Shweder et al. citing Caudil and Plath
- “ Approximately 50% of urban Japanese children 11 to 15 years old sleep in the same
bed with their mother or father or both, Japanese fathers are just as lkely to sleep in the
same bed with their daughters as with their sons…” What is more “a typical person is likely to sleep alone at only two points: in late adolescence, if unmarried and living away from home; and in late adulthood, if widowed and living without children or grandchildren”
Vietnam: In cities, rich families children sleep with their parents till age of 5/7.
So we're talking cultural norms. The fact that you see the practice as indicative of poverty, reflects the cultural views you, and all of us here, were raised with. Doesn't mean it's a better view.
if his unfortunate childhood is the reason for his supposed naivity in his approach to children why didn't the rest of his siblings behave exactly like him?
Same reason you might sometimes see broad variations between any other adults who are siblings. I don't behave exactly like my brother, but we both had the same childhood. Individuals can react differently to the same situations. I guess we all find solace, and contend with our demons, in our own ways.
Naamah are you for real?
Nope. I am a figment of your imagination. And if you wouldn't mind imagining me slightly younger... be much appreciated. 
If there your OWN kids, yer sure.totally normal, and believe a necessary parental practice. but someone else kids in your bed and your cuddling them..
Oh no...he's pulled out the big guns and used the vomit emoticon on me. :) I hear ya Braddles...I grew up with the same socialisation...but still reckon MJ saw himself as a kid like them.
regardless of right or wrong ?? nope, I think its about clearing your name... The guy probably wasn't entirely running his own life though. | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/26/2009 8:44:49 PM | I made no allusion to poverty being the reason why families might feel inclined to share the same bed
You used the expression "third world". Usually references under-developed countries and it seemed apparent that you were making reference to poverty.
enjoy affectionate cuddling with into the bargain when you are living in a wealthy country like the USA is taking it all a bit far.
So wealth leaves us with no justification for enjoying affectionate cuddling?? Interesting.
would you have left your children with him for a sleep over.
Hilly has shared a bed with my dogs. Should I be worried? | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/26/2009 8:54:27 PM | even if you lost in court, an innocent man would never surrender.
Ok.... so if this were YOU.... and YOU knew your innocence and you were capable of gettting out of YOUR box and able to take a look at the issue from all perspectives... yours included ^^^^ and you KNEW that these parents were just gold diggers... because YOU are innocent..... you also knew that the kids (who you love) are going to be dragged through this crap with their gold digging parents..... what would you do???? Would you offer them (the parents) what you know they want (money)? or would you say ...stuff it.... let's put the kids through a whole heap of pointless crap to prove MY innocence??.
Personally I'd say, take the money and I would spend no time or money justifying what I hadn't done .... | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/26/2009 9:00:20 PM | whilst I hate do dis-agree with any woman who calls me braddles..
I certainly agree with big mickey...he was not only doing this, he was chronic.
I agree, he most likely believed he was a child, and if the allegations are true, i imagine he felt he was loving them not molesting them. I am sure there would be many molesters who feel they arent doing anything wrong. I get the sence that he did truly love kids, but more like the way a man loves a woman(the sexy kind of love, not like kissing your nanna type)
his older sister La Toya Jackson accused him of being a pedophile once, a statement she later retracted. but she felt strong enough about it once.
MJ saw himself as a kid like them
I can imagine I'm a teapot, and see myself with handle and spout.and my girlfreind can dress up in a maids outfit, but thats not going to change what we really are.(2 sickos)
its our actions that define who we are, not how we see ourselves or how we dress. | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/26/2009 9:13:33 PM | *
When I first heard MJ was gone, I was spending time in this culturally created experience we call life and obviously doing what we all do...... my own thing, pertaining to the long held habits and instilled culturally social judgements we all make many times each day. My first reaction was much like hilly's, (I havent been an MJ 'fan' and have an aversion to 'rock spiders'), the world is less one 'bad apple'.
Then I thought, how would the greater part of me, the source of my conciousness feel about his life and death? Leaving all the judgements about his choices in life out, it only leaves his contribution to mass conciousness. What a contribution that was!! Who hasnt tried moon walking?? The dance from thriller even made it into movies. Wacko Jacko! He was a thriller himself.
Why should his memory within conciousness be tainted by what was never proven to be a fact. Why shouldnt we choose to give our attention to all that is good in this world, so I choose to remember MJ as the eccentric artist he was, brilliant in his creativity and sadly tormented in his 'place' in time and space.
* | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/26/2009 9:22:01 PM | ^^^^ BM, I was quoting the bit I wished to respond to. The rest of the sentence does not change the essence of the bit I highlighted at all. But I am happy to tell you what I thought about the whole bit you seem to want kept together... although I think you'll like it even less to be honest.
but to willingly
(and yes, the kids did so willingly)
share a bed with a man
(perhaps if it was Janet Jackson we'd have less issue??)
you don't know very well
(I disagree with that bit and would say with someone you had a close bond with)
to save space
(irrelevant in this case as he obviously had space and was only brought up by you in relation to Japan, perhaps because you find it more comfortable to identify utilitarian reasons for people wanting to share a bed when maybe they just do so cos it's nice?)
and enjoy affectionate cuddling with into the bargain
(chosen wording "into the bargain" reads as if it might be kind of outrageous to enjoy affectionate cuddling when, damn it, it was meant to be about rationalisating bed-sharing as only done when we have no other choice... cos enjoying human contact and cuddling is just plain weird)
when you are living in a wealthy country
(why mention wealthy when you have also denied you meant to make reference to anything about poverty vs wealth...but then being poor is another comfortable rationalisation I guess)
like the USA is taking it all a bit far
(meaning wrong in your eyes because that's what our society dictates).
So the shorter version of my response still seems valid to me. You were implying that with lack of a justification (eg poverty, lack of space) bed-sharing and cuddling is weird.
wasn't the problem but a bizarre unhealthy desire to share a bed with children was..n'es pas ? I understand that some people see it as a wrongdoing based on their own interpretation of what it means to cuddle a child in a bed. | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/26/2009 9:38:13 PM |
it's not like MJ is going to suddenly arise from the dead
you havent seen the thriller film clip have you  | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/26/2009 9:59:47 PM | BM..... this thread is open to ALL opinions and speculation (because that's all any of our comments are) ...to impose your own opinion on to those of us who have a very different one in the form of "The Emperors New Clothes" kind of defeats the purpose of "forums".
Yep... we do see things differently because we are looking at different facts... actually at the end of the day there is only one fact that really counts .... The man was proven "NOT GUILTY".... did you miss that bit..... (Suppose he paid all of the jurors off too)....
From my angle I could turn this around and right back atcha......
The Emperor realized that the people were right but could not admit to that. He though it better to continue the procession under the illusion that anyone who couldn't see his clothes was either stupid or incompetent. And he stood stiffly on his carriage, while behind him a page held his imaginary mantle.
Naamah, you deliberately quoted me out of context, you may seek to justify why you did so all you like but the simple fact is that you have attempted to make it appear as if I said something which I didn't at all which is easy to refute when my posts are examined fully...cheers for nothing madame.
BM Your post made no sense to me at all....the third world country bit totally threw me... thanks Naamah for putting some sense into the senseless..... (I take no responsibility for my "open' closing comment....to be interpreted whichever way it fits.) | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/26/2009 10:07:40 PM |
EDIT: Naamah, you deliberately quoted me out of context, you may seek to justify why you did so all you like but the simple fact is that you have attempted to make it appear as if I said something which I didn't at all which is easy to refute when my posts are examined fully...cheers for nothing madame.
In fact, my response did not negate, nor fail to take into account, all else you said. The fact that your post is in full view is the precise reason why a person only needs to highlight the specific bit they want to respond to. I was trying to be brief. But when you expressed your objection to your sentence being cut in half, I accepted that... took a step back and showed you why I had dismissed the other half by dissecting the whole thing... and I still ended up with the same interpretation of what you said. For me this is a social curiosity regarding people's inclination to attribute guilt on very little evidence and the way righteous anger can build and become frenzied when social norms are not being adhered to..., but I am sensing that perhaps this is something you are more passionate about than I am given that you are becoming upset. I will leave your posts alone from here on and let you lynch MJ in peace, safe in the knowledge that your chosen candidate is already dead.
but thats not going to change what we really are.(2 sickos)
its our actions that define who we are, not how we see ourselves I agree that is what defines us to other people, but that doesn't necessarily change how he saw himself. I've already agreed the guy had issues. But ...you can't say %100 that his actions did involve kiddy fiddling, and the action of cuddling kids in bed is not inherently bad even if we don't understand it or feel inclined to do it. Some parents dropped the complaints and a jury said he was innocent...so why do the beliefs persist? Cos he has a funny nose.
Also think I will use teabags from now on.
his older sister La Toya Jackson accused him of being a pedophile once, a statement she later retracted. but she felt strong enough about it once.
I have called my brother so many names over the years, emphatically, and then later retracted it. It's always easier to insult someone by using an insult someone else has already used on 'em...well worn path sort of thing. | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/26/2009 10:18:15 PM | | cant say i liked his music,but will respect him as a musican,(a post above mentioned him as the greatest muso/behave ,u not heard of ELVIS? ) cant say if he was a pedo,but whats lisa marie rekon ?cant wait until new idea buys "the real story".i would've much prefered a few pages in the paper on farra and her beautiful life.rip Farra/mick .in that order! | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/26/2009 11:08:03 PM | *sigh*
BM .... You have comprehension problems??? hmmm...best get that looked at.
Maybe if I endeavor to add some juicy sarcasm and underlying anger in my next post you will relate to that a little easier...... | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/26/2009 11:32:34 PM | I applaud Namaah's initial post, it seemed fair. I think it's fairly normal for a grown man to hug kids, albeit not toward complete strangers. For those people who are objectionable to a grown man showing young kids affection, what about fathers to their kids? Surely that is not an evil act? You say neigh, but there are cases of fathers molesting and murdering their kids and worst. There are cases of mothers killing and molesting their kids. So at the end of the day, do we caste our kids out into the wilderness, to be grown up in a sterile environment devoid of emotional attachment and human love? What a dreaful view. I am glad that there are humans out in the world who don't give a rats ass about people's retarded sense of political correctness and raise their own kids with a conscience and with love and also transfer this love and kindness toward other kids as well. I would hate to think that those philantropist to starving African kids who hugs their benefactors in photos that we see too infrequently to be used as evidence of "wrongful" touches.
I think we essentially are all armchair lawyers, more and more addicted to the tube and those who present to us the truth, but not the whole truth. We judge without knowing the full facts and discriminate against people who we deem evil due to kneee-jerk reactions. So we think we're smarter than the "their" justice system, we approve and disapprove of different cases way beyond our depths, and all along, if we were to bear judgement against ourselves, not many would give ourselves a perfect score.
As for the man who passed away recently, if we judge him harshly, maybe it is the evil we see that "we" may possibly do if in his position, not whether Michael Jackson did it or not. Is this not a reflection of our true self? Shouldn't we start out by trusting the better half of a human conscience not whether he doth evil or not? Our justice system is based on giving everyone a fair go, we are innocent until proven guilty. This we base our faith upon, giving us a life free from worries of wrongful accusations, and wrongful arrests. And yet continually, our life is filled with wrongful accusations, especially in relationships and I think we project this somewhat when we judge how rotten another complete stranger is.
Protect our kids, for our strengths and wisdom are their for the younger generation. We should also protect the innocents, as presented by facts and judicial arrangements and we should not bear false witness against those who may have done no wrong.
If we should provide friendship and love to someone, we inately trust them and if they should turn around and backstab you, many kind and gentle people will try to run away. For Michael, it could be interpreted that he just wanted them to go away and money made it possible. When you provide friendship and love to someone, we trust them and if they should turn around and backstab you, some people will want vengeance and hurt those turncoats, quickly forgetting that they want to hurt someone they claimed friendship and love to. | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/27/2009 1:13:51 AM |
pogue mo thoin
My comprehension skills are very well defined..my dear.
Oiche mhaith.
Let's have a show of hands who is impressed by the use of a foreign language. Mate, some people could say to you "Speak English or go back home" - and I would not object to them for saying it.
I could post all kinds of "impressive" things in other languages too (I speak six languages) but I wouldn't want them to think I'm turning into a tosser | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/27/2009 2:19:33 AM | Naamah............ I applaud your tireless efforts to defend your belief in your own thoughts and opinions while under a constant onslaught of people that have judged MJ guilty without any knowledge, but are just their opinions. By the way, I agree with you in every way.
I cannot believe that the only real subject people are interested in giving their opinions on, is the supposed possiblities of what may have happened.
Michael Jackson was one of the greatest Songwriters, Musicians and Dancer of our time and probably before that, however, the best anyone can do is make the odd comment along the lines of............. Oh BTW, his music wasn't that bad.............. He has done more charity work than most other artists, he is one of the most highly respected genius' and his work and talent are totally respected by his peers.
I saw Smokey Robinson ( he is right up there as a Songwriter and Musician ) a few hours ago, make a comment on TV, that in his opinion, MJ is probably the greatest artist we have ever seen and possibly may never see or hear such talent again, as Smokey said "Michael Jackson is the TOTAL package"
I have always believed in the theory............... ' A thief believes everyone is trying to steal from him ' ( I'm sure I don't have to explain that ) which leads me to wonder where all these peoples accusations are coming from.
Be nice to hear some good things about MJ, not all the pathetic accusations based on just your thoughts !!!
 | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/27/2009 4:32:26 AM | Just watched an hour and a half M.J. special on the telly.
lot of stuff I hadn't seen before, but some musical memories
I'd almost forgotten. From his early days with the
Jackson Five, to his greatest hits, most coming from
albums. His stage performances, electric.
Feeling all warm and fuzzy now, so I think I'll decork a bottle
of Hunter Valley red, and raise a glass to the heavens.
A toast to the man for some wonderful memories.
If nothing else, you can't deny him his showmanship.
Here's to you Mr Jackson, may you rest in peace.
 | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/27/2009 4:34:55 AM | I have a lot of respect for Micheal Jackson and his music, I think he was too innocent for his own good, frankly he stands out as an adult that was still caught up in his childhood and never grew past that.
I saw someone I used to work with almost destroyed by something similiar, he was somewhat of a big kid, he had kids of his own and was pretty much cut off from everyone he knew because they believed what was said, he went through 2 years of hell, and quite a lot of money to go to court and have it thrown out because it shouldnt have been there in the begining.
Are you telling me that when my kids jump into my bed in the middle of the night because they are scared I should kick them out into their own bed, or not hug or kiss my daughter or son good night on the premise of what people would think.
People posting that dont like him because of the whole media circus that surounded him, and do the same with anything that has anything to do with a celebrity doesnt suprise me, at times it just makes me sick. | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/27/2009 4:49:23 AM |
Be nice to hear some good things about MJ, not all the pathetic accusations based on just your thoughts !!!
Is that not what a forum is for though? A place for people to express "their" thoughts and feelings....or are we only allowed to post as long as we all agree?
How boring!
Nice story by the way. Just goes to show how this man thought money could right any wrong and be used to shut people up....isn't it a shame all damage cant be undone as easily though?
Im happy to admit that I like the mans music....just not the man himself. I wonder why we all have to Start remembering the good and forgetting the vile badness just because he is dead?
Hilly has shared a bed with my dogs. Should I be worried?
We did not cuddle though...honest.....so its OK, right??
 | |
|
| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/27/2009 5:36:20 AM | Tonight i have been thoroughly lambasted for my "opinion".
So mant people seem to confuse exceptional talent with being an exceptional person.
I have to say that I have not been a fan of MJ music, or the Man he developed into from his obviously "onrealistic" upbringing...I agree a forum is just that a place to air a point of view, Please tell me how being exceptionally talented makes you a good person or a role model?
Sid Viscious
Gary Glitter
George Micheal
OJ Simpson
Ben Cousins
Marion Jones
Perhaps it spans back to that deep seated religious bullshit about not speaking ill of the dead?????
(and I apologise to all of those that find comfort in faith) | |
|
|
| Page 2 of 7
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 |
|
Home
login 
