| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/27/2009 5:36:52 AM | no one could deny his "pop" appeal and contribution to the art world...
however... does that make it OK for a 40+ adult male to invite kids over for sleepovers and share their bed?... hang his own baby out of a hotel window for a press shot.... and other less than convincing arguments for letting your children anywhere near him..
not that he's the only famous "personality" or person in a position of power in history to like children in their beds....
still doesn't make it right or acceptable..
it's one thing to hear parents say it's OK to have their kids share the bed with them...
but letting a complete stranger with a "dubious" liking for cuddling children in their beds have them for an overnight stay unsupervised?...
is a complete other thing... Wrong!.. would be one thing I could think of.... but that's me, I suppose...
I thought one aspect of freedom was being able to sleep unmolested in your own bed....
and another... to protect your children sleeping safely in theirs.... | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/27/2009 5:49:03 AM | | what I was suprised to read in todays paper......he made "only" 10 albums. I was expecting many many more. | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/27/2009 6:02:43 AM | Cheers Possibilitarian, Somnia and Ulyssian, for your respective comments. 
Ulyssian, I do understand what you mean when you say you'd rather the discussion be about MJ's musical achievements. I have been looking through some of his music clips on youtube...and it's amazing to realise how many MJ hits have been part of the music track to our lives.
Actually a few months ago, I was chatting to my brother about this thing he'd seen where the Jackson brothers (in their younger form) were just jamming, at home, and creating music as they went...and it just evolved so naturally....the music just poured out of them. I think Michael was a standout in a standout family.
But I guess this other issue became a fairly big shadow on the legend of MJ, and the media played it up to sell papers. There's definitely more media mileage in a weirdo pervert story than there is in a talented recluse innocent story, because the public thrives on moral outrage moreso than awe.
I do agree with those saying that being dead isn't sufficient reason to suddenly idolise someone. Personally I don't feel I am idolising the man, nor am I inspired to say what I am saying from a position of believing celebrity in itself renders someone unaccountable. I just don't believe he molested kids. I'd be outspoken in defence of the bloke next door if he was accused of the same and I didn't believe it.
Am I alone in thinking that your condescension masks an intense sexual tension on your part....if I am..I have to admire your ability to bullsh1t..
I said I'd leave your posts alone so you could lynch the recently deceased MJ if you felt so strongly about doing so given that he is probably beyond caring... but I don't recall agreeing to overlook being lynched myself, although I figured from the tone of your posts that you were heading in that direction. Besides, I've already been lynched twice this week and my neck is sore.
As far as I am concerned, reverting to innuendo regarding my sexuality is an indicator that you've run out of decent points to make regarding the topic under debate. It doesn't strike me as a particularly valid way to contribute to the forum, to just accuse anyone who doesn't agree with you of having some underlying sexual issue. Anyone can hurl abuse ...it's boring. I have far more respect for someone like Cavesbeach who I don't agree with but who can debate opposing viewpoints without trying to insult anyone. (Love ya work Braddles  ) So...I suppose this is where I am expected to return fire by posting some retaliatory insults about you and casting aspersions about your sexuality?? Couldn't be ar$ed. Getting personal only brings the forums down. Stick to arguing the topic eh.
Oops missed a bit...
fair feckin' balls to ya!!
You'd better be talking Ferrero Rocher gold-wrapped hazelnut balls. | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/27/2009 4:35:17 PM |
pogue mo thoin
Gosh and I always thought that Irishmen were gentlemen??!! seems a previous statement you made about me may just be right because that thought was obviously ..... both stupid and lacking in acceptable norms of intelligence ........ to a huge degree
Who could say it better than MJ himself..........
Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Showin' how funky and strong is your fight
It doesn't matter who's wrong or right
Just beat it, beat it
Beat it, beat it, beat it!!!
It�s Black, It�s White
It�s Tough For You
To Get By
It�s Black , It�s White, Whoo
It�s Black, It�s White
It�s Tough For You
To Get By
It�s Black , It�s White, Whoo
(Go the Jackson Whoo!!!!)
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/27/2009 7:47:05 PM | ^^^ I cannot see where you have been deliberately misquoted. It appears more to me as though a differing opinion to yours has so blinded you with rage that you can't seem to stick to topic, or post your opinion rationally, without resorting to personal attacks. It's could be construed as a rather disturbing reflection on your own character, in my opinion.
Who knows what went on in Michael Jackson's personal life? Who can honestly say they understand the man and his motives? I am vehemently against pedophiles and would personally pull the trigger to remove one from this earth should my own child be a victim of their sick urges. But I cannot say with any authority whatsoever that MJ deserved to die.
I can certainly understand how his childhood, fame and lifestyle may have contributed to his being too different and 'weird' for 'normal and average' folk to comprehend. And I can see also that he may have potentially been a pedophile. What I can't do on this forum is state, for absolute certain, what is 'The Truth'. I can only speculate. I would hope that my speculations are intelligently compassionate and reasonably open minded.
I don't think I need to resort to personal attacks on other poster's sexuality on this thread, though I'm pretty suss about Hilly's relationship with Naamah's dogs, to be entirely honest. | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/27/2009 8:18:18 PM | I hope she's appreciative of your blind loyalty
Geez, I certainly do hope so, coz I'm hoping for a crack at her dogs too.
On topic... I don't have a television at the moment and must be missing out on some great TV specials on the life and times of MJ. I think a visit to Youtube is on the cards for me today.
Edit: Apologies for quoting only part of your post... noone will ever work out what you actually said now that I've gone and twisted your words for my own nefarious reasons. | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/27/2009 8:20:17 PM | I too saw a special last night on Michael Jackson. His talent really was amazing. I almost feel inspired to buy an album, having never owned one.
He was different. Difference often inspires people with fear and assumptions get made. Its ridiculous for us to assume we know what happened in his dealings with kids. Given that he was aquitted with the intense media speculation of the trial there has to be reasonable doubt that he actually did anything wrong.
Debate on these forums is interesting and informative. Posters that are skilled in debating make the forums worth reading. Its a shame when people have issues with their opinions being questioned and resort to personal insults and other heel drumming. Fortunately, since their posts are forever in print on the forums and under their profile, this evidence of poor relationship skills is out there for potential dates to be aware of. | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/27/2009 8:32:47 PM | Tonight i have been thoroughly lambasted for my "opinion".
On this thread?  I was curious about who lambasted you but on reading back I can only see that you posted a joke, and a one line comment, and nobody responded to either post?
Nice story by the way. Just goes to show how this man thought money could right any wrong and be used to shut people up.
It's always really interesting that people can see the same situation from entirely different angles. So this guy, who is mega famous, hears about some disgruntled fans and decides to make amends...and you put the slant on it that he's just using his money to shut people up? But in that situation (the story being referred to was Ulyssian's about the mix up with the concert seating) surely he didn't have to shut them up. At his level, a few irked people would have absolutely no consequence. None. I mean, in one way, it's a better example to use to discern his character because with the families who were given money it's easy to take the more cynical view that it was money to shut them up, but gripes about seating couldn't hurt his career, finances or reputation. No reason to shut them up. Obviously he just wanted to make a gesture to make some people happy cos he cared. Same reason I let you leave your decrepit old horse here...no, wait...that is to shut you up. 
but as you are inclined towards rubbishing people's opinions which oppose your own you ought to expect the same treatment
Oh look, "rubbish" my opinions all you like, that's precisely what the forum is for. Your first post on this thread was "rubbishing" my opinion. No problem with that. I certainly will "rubbish" an opinion I don't agree with...it's called debate. But then you got personal and "rubbished" me. Different thing entirely. Same with you calling people 'dear', saying 'bullshit', and telling people to kiss your ar$e etc.
I cannot see where you have been deliberately misquoted. It appears more to me as though a differing opinion to yours has so blinded you with rage that you can't seem to stick to topic, or post your opinion rationally, without resorting to personal attacks.
I agree.
personally I wouldn't trust you (with your laissez faire attitude) around my children at all.
Damn. There goes my planned babysitting empire. | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/27/2009 9:01:29 PM |
I'm disappointed by my wee sojourn to these here parts
Are you leaving so soon? Awwwwww...
Well, don't let the door hit you on the way out. There's a good lad. 
Urban Dictionary: Don't Let The Door Hit You On The Way Out
A metaphor for: "I think you should leave. Do not pause or delay while you are leaving." Generally used when the addressed has been complaining about circumstances that the listener doesn't agree with. It comes from a time when doors were on spring hinges and if you paused in the doorway while exiting, the door would spring closed behind you and hit you on the backside.
Example:
"This place stinks. I am too qualified to be here."
"Well, don't let the door hit you on the way out." | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/27/2009 9:12:37 PM |
Geez, I certainly do hope so, coz I'm hoping for a crack at her dogs too.
Hands off missus, the dogs are mine. You can have the roadtripper if you want though!!
Damn. There goes my planned babysitting empire.
Considering the state my poor old horse is in I think thats not a bad thing really!
I did see one of his concerts on the tele last night and it was quite a spectacle...the man certainly could perform. Though I would have been slightly p1ssed off if I had been in the back row. Those poor people looked to be about 5 miles away from the stage.....ripped off. | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/27/2009 10:26:39 PM | do you people ever manage to 'get over yourselves' or is your destiny one of abject unreasonableness and the putting up with of the insufferably chronic disease of habitual J'accuse malaise..?
A quanitifiably large number of the more non descript posters on this thread appear to stick out like sore thumbs just because they're so laughable, grand; it's hilariously amusing to partake in this silliness but I do worry about the sort of very odd and very bizarre personality that finds friends and cohorts amongst already established crazees and imagine they are somehow normal because someone hasn't disagreed with their baseless biased ignorant rantings??
You're all mad!!!
It saddens me to see the depths that human moral sinks to in such threads such as this.
It is my hopes that the moderators on this site will delete such threads on site. | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/27/2009 10:51:12 PM | It would seem that wherever you go this is a very emotive topic, even outside of this thread. Yes the man was found innocent, as were others in trials that are managed by the media. Convicted or not would you let your children sleep with this man? I know I wouldn't! Regardless of the acceptance of this "eccentricity" the obvious abdication from adulthood that he tried to project in his personal life was not reflected in his lyrics, music style or dancing.
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/28/2009 1:03:32 AM | but wait ... there's more.. there's to be a resurrection...
a second autopsy has been requested by the family... skullduggery afoot?..
....an encore?... all the best shows have an encore.. | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/28/2009 2:19:01 AM | On Michaels album: "HIStory - Past, Present And Future - Book 1" he tells his story ...."Scream" His frustration, "Tabloid Junkie" his hate for the paparazzi and "Childhood" his lost childhood, "This time around" & "Money", his hurt "You are not alone" his loneliness......... and finally "Smile" which showed his ability to overcome.
In an interview he stated that what he feared most was "the next concert" because, his audience expected him to be bigger and better each time. Far out... I can't even imagine what that pressure must of felt like. How do you improve on 100%???. And yet he did. Each album and concert that went with it he gave the people 100% something new. An icon in his own right.
The lyrics to his song "Gone to Soon" from his album "Dangerous" ....
"Gone Too Soon"
Like A Comet
Blazing 'Cross The Evening Sky
Gone Too Soon
Like A Rainbow
Fading In The Twinkling Of An Eye
Gone Too Soon
Shiny And Sparkly
And Splendidly Bright
Here One Day
Gone One Night
Like The Loss Of Sunlight
On A Cloudy Afternoon
Gone Too Soon
Like A Castle
Built Upon A Sandy Beach
Gone Too Soon
Like A Perfect Flower
That Is Just Beyond Your Reach
Gone Too Soon
Born To Amuse, To Inspire, To Delight
Here One Day
Gone One Night
Like A Sunset
Dying With The Rising Of The Moon
Gone Too Soon
Gone Too Soon
RIP MJ | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/28/2009 4:40:14 AM | To Prakticle. Because someone is not convicted in court does not mean they are Innocent, it merely means there was not enough evidence to convince all 12 people of a jury that you were guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. The premise of "innocent until proven guilty" is merely a court definition meaning that the onus is on the prosecution. I noted this during the week with the Police Assoc guy Mullet claiming he has been "found innocent" which is not the case.
In making that clear I don't have an opinion either way on MJ. Yes he was weird, yes he lived an estranged life surrounded by people sponging off him and telling him what he wanted to hear like many Megastars do. In my 20's I spent some time bodyguarding some celebs and they are surrounded by sucks pampering to them every day. They live in a bubble and a life that is far from normal like Royals do. Don't expect them to be like the rest of us when they never get to meet real people.
Can anyone imagine a life where you can't go out to the shop or a movie without being mobbed, with the media camped on your doorstep day and night watching your every move? Ordinary people that think this is a glam lifestyle have no idea. | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/28/2009 8:48:07 PM | | Do you think he will 'live on' as John Lennon did ? He was such a recluse that we only had glimpses of his persona . To me he seemed both savvy and childlike . I liked him in interviews and am sorry that he drove himself so hard to get ready for his last tour . And only because he was in massive debt . | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/28/2009 9:44:36 PM |
To die rich is to die disgraced' Philanthropist Andrew Carnegie
Michael did it right, he left over $500 million in debt for the blood sucking leaches to panic over, a good result but not nearly as good as the debt Cullen left behind and he isnt dead yet....
He was in debt and yet the fights have already begun on what and/or is (yet to be determined) left of his estate. I am not totally convinced that his next concert was only for the money..... he lived to perform and loved what he did.... the money was a bonus. Albeit quite a large bonus but, I don't believe that he would have starved had he not of chosen to perform. All media reports say that he was whole heatedly giving 100% to his next concert and was enthusiastic and excited about it. Had he only of been doing it for the money I don't believe that he would have showed any enthusiasm. In fact he often spoke about his dislike for money and the evil that it brought. Performers live to perform, it is their life and their passion, driving themselves hard is part of the territory. | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/28/2009 9:55:43 PM | ^^^ Actually, I'd heard that he stated in an interview that he was doing it for his kids. They had never seen him perform live, and had reached an age where they could appreciate live performance. He wanted to show them what Dad does...day at the office with Dad.
EDIT:
Because someone is not convicted in court does not mean they are Innocent, it merely means there was not enough evidence to convince all 12 people of a jury that you were guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.
I know what you mean there, but our justice system is built on the premise of innocent until proven guilty. As "innocent" people walking around, you and I appreciate and rely on that fact. Imagine being assumed guilty of everything until you could prove yourself innocent? A not guilty verdict puts a person back to square one as being considered as innocent as you and I.
Sure, we can say the system is flawed (and it is) but as far as us all deciding that the court trial came to an incorrect verdict...I would ask you whether trial by media, and trial by public perception (with all its guesses and assumptions and preconceived ideas and rumours and half truths and total lack of familiarity with the evidence of the matter) could ever be said to be better, and more accurate, than even a potentially flawed court trial??? Would you like an angry mob to descend upon you and decide your fate, or would you want a calm proceeding whereby all evidence is presented and 12 impartial people not wielding lynching rope decide? And if you were found not guilty, how would you feel about the rest of the world continuing to say you are guilty?
It very often happens with those accused of sex crimes that the mud sticks. We are all particularly unforgiving even towards the falsely accused. Teachers, accused of molesting kids who are subsequently found not guilty, often still find it impossible to get jobs.
I am well aware that some people get off on technicalities etc, and it drives me nuts...but that wasn't the case here as far as I am aware. Anyone saying all knowingly "yeah he only got off cos there wasn't enough evidence", as if there is something wrong in that, is missing the point that, umm, maybe there wasn't enough evidence because... he didn't do it.
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/28/2009 10:32:07 PM | | well..... Here;s what I think of MJ.......He was an incredible musician, dancer, actor,coryograpgher,producer,artist...he luved children and all people.....Knowone could perfect his dance moves or his singing and dancing talent...He left us with enough music that will keep him alive for eternity.com.....His children will blow away the entertainment industry, everyone should get a copy of one of his many legendary albunms or else the'll miss out..His last years were marked with drama that made hime very sad but in my Heart I know who's really bad | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/28/2009 11:00:43 PM | Time too rap on dear MJ behalf...."you became known as wacko jacko after ya poured your soul into everyone,still gettin sued and jumpin up on cars havin fun.
livin life on your terms not everyones heaven sent like nize quoted "god's son"
who gives a shitt if your pushin a low low,when in the frick have you been four a four by fooo????U cared about the children with your heart and soul....but heyy u got soul...remember the time when it was u and billy jean the life of a smooth criminal....even in your dmise u still keep an eye on your kinfo9lk | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/28/2009 11:11:50 PM |
This is not a difficult result to analyze or explain. A jury acquitted Jackson of molestation because the evidence simply wasn't strong enough to support the felony convictions sought by prosecutors. He was acquitted because the witnesses against him were among the worst I have ever seen in a court.
Even though neither you nor I would ever let our children near him, Jackson is free today because it is not against the law to sleep in a bed with young boys. If you are angry with these jurors, don't be. Rest assured that as a group they were perfectly willing to send Jackson off to jail until he'd be eligible for Social Security. The case against Jackson was so bad that even you would have acquitted him based solely upon the evidence. Yes, it was that bad.
Andrew Cohen, Extract from "Michael Jackson's Trial: You Had To Be There" The Denver Post, June 14, 2005.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/06/26/courtwatch/entry5117075.shtml | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/28/2009 11:21:45 PM | he must be innocent then. because there wasn't enough evidence on one trial..
I wonder why his own sister called him a pedophile.
maybe it was the other two trials where he paid one kid 20 million and the other kid 2 million to settle out a court.
nuff said, guilty or not
there's two types of people in this thread, those that think its ok too sleep with other peoples kids and cuddle, listening too MJ
and those that think MJ and that sort of thing is plain old SICK !!!
I'm off to dangle my kid over the balcony :) | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/28/2009 11:23:24 PM | ^^^Bugger caves you slipped in there and beat me to it!!
Personally I don't think most people who believe MJ was guilty think the miscarriage of justice occured at his trial. More so, the other trials that never saw the light of day, because he bought peoples silence and payed his way out of appearing before a jury. Dont get me wrong, I think people who can be bought deserve no better treatment then him and they deserve a good smack too.
But....
For a shifty grand I will become the biggest MJ advocate there is!
I have to be honest and admit that hes dead and my interest in the whole MJ saga has well and truly died. I will actually be glad once hes in the ground and there is something else on the tele. | |
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| The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/28/2009 11:41:47 PM | you can buy me off for $45k, and I'l buy all your albums..
I just wished mick jagger died or steven tyler, would love to hear the Rolling stones or aerosmith for the next 5 days on telle | |
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