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 Author Thread: The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
 possibilitarian

Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 101
The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/30/2009 12:05:35 AM
ooops.....Now I am repeating myself....... far out this lawyer stuff is messing with my head.... continue on to next post people ;-)
 possibilitarian

Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 102
The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/30/2009 12:15:42 AM

Having a clever Lawyer earning 50 times the prosecutor AND the judge and the ability to call 30 witnesses who are your friends and would say anything to help you. Well you go figure



Your post may not be a statement about MJ however, you have brought up points that show flaws in the judicial system that may render a man not guilty when there is a possibility that he could be ... in a thread about Michael Jackson?? therefore I will answer for the defence with this.....

A clever Lawyer... hell yeah.... was he not entitled to the best that money can buy... isn't any body? If you know you are innocent and there is even a slight chance that you might be proven guilty (which there always is in a court of law) and had the money to employ a clever lawyer would you choose differently??? I have been on the receiving end of a bad lawyer and the result was disastrous.

At the People V Jackson trial there were 91 prosecution and 50 defense witnesses. Bit of a ratio difference there. Could it be possible that Jackson's 50 witnesses told the truth? After all we are not talking about a petty theft charge here.... we are talking about child molestation... some of Jackson's witnesses were high profile people.... with their own integrity to preserve. To be caught out at at later date for lying would discredit them. Additionally, I wonder if your statement infers that the prosecutions witnesses were any less friends to the Arvizo's than those of the defendants?

Just for the record it is interesting to note the proceedings on May 27

* March 1 – Prosecution testimony begins.
* May 4 – Prosecution rests.
* May 5 – Defense testimony begins.
* May 25 – Defense rests/prosecution rebuttal begins.
* May 27 – Prosecution rebuttal ends/defense offers no rebuttal.
* June 1 – Jury gets instructions.
* June 2, June 3 – Closing arguments.
* June 13 – Verdict delivered.



it seems he got off 1 charge of molestation, but have you forgotten the part where the jury never got a chance when he paid 2 kids around 22 million dollars to settle out a court


Perhaps the prosecution should do their homework before further posting ......




Alleged prior sexual crimes (Evidence Code 1108)

Melville allowed the prosecution to present evidence regarding five men, out of seven requested who, as boys, had allegedly been involved in sexual behavior with Jackson.[21] The prosecution called a total of nine people to testify regarding this, including only one of these five alleged victims: Jason Francia; three of the five, Macaulay Culkin, Wade Robson and Brett Barnes, testified for the defense and all said that Jackson had never molested them.[9][22]

The prosecution's purpose in making the allegations was to demonstrate a pattern of behavior by Jackson. Bringing in evidence of so-called "prior bad acts" to suggest that a defendant had a propensity to commit certain crimes is only allowed in a few US states, and only for sex crimes; in California this is Evidence Code 1108.

* Jason Francia (born May 30, 1980) is the son of Jackson's former maid Blanca Francia, who moved from El Salvador to the US in 1975. She worked for Jackson in the period 1986–1991 at the Jackson family home in Encino, Los Angeles, at Jackson's Century City, Los Angeles apartment called "The Hideout," and at Neverland. She often brought Jason along to her work. Jason was a friend of Jackson in the period 1987–1991, when he was 7–10 years old. Jason claimed Jackson touched his crotch twice over his shorts, and once touched his testicles from under his shorts, on each of these three occasions for a few minutes during a tickling game. On the first two occasions he received $100 each for not telling his mother. In 1996 Jackson paid the family $2,000,000 to settle the case. Blanca Francia also received $20,000 for a TV interview, which Jason claimed to have no knowledge of the amount. She testified too, in spite of the settlement. She did not see sexual activity, just an occasion where Jackson and Jason were lying together partly on, partly in a sleeping bag.[citation needed]

* Jordan Chandler, who allegedly was molested by Jackson in 1993 (see 1993 child sexual abuse accusations against Michael Jackson), left the country to avoid testifying according to his uncle Ray Chandler. Former security guard Ralph Chacon says that at Neverland he saw Jackson putting Chandler's penis in his mouth on one occasion, and touching Chandler's crotch with his hand on another occasion. However, Chacon's reliability is disputed, as he had past conflicts with Jackson. Chacon's testimony also contradicted Chandler's affidavit. Chacon claimed having seen Jackson molest Chandler in early 1993, before May 1993 in Monaco, when Chandler alleged in his testimony that Jackson started abusing him. Chandler's mother has also testified and contradicted known facts about the case, claiming that she was the one to alert authorities about the relationship between Jackson and her son in September 1993, although authorities were alerted by Jordan's father in August 1993. Former maid Adrian McManus says she once saw Jackson touch Chandler's crotch over his clothes. Bob Jones, who worked for Jackson from 1987 to 2004 as a publicist, was a witness, but he refused to testify at trial.[23] Since Jones had been fired by Jackson in 2004 and subsequently spoke out, he was dismissed by the Jackson family as a disgruntled former employee.[23]

* Macaulay Culkin was a child actor. Phillip LeMarque stated that he once saw Jackson with his hand resting on the pants of Culkin when the two were playing video games. Adrian McManus said he only saw that once Jackson kissed Culkin on his cheek, and had his hand "kind of by his leg, kind of on his rear end." Culkin had not originally wished to testify but after the allegations made by LeMarque and McManus, he appeared as a defense witness to refute their charges.[9] Culkin denounced the molestation allegations as "absolutely ridiculous" and said that nothing inappropriate had happened, that he had never been improperly touched, touched in a sexual way by Jackson or molested by Jackson.[9] Culkin testified that he slept in Jackson's bed several times between the ages of 10 and 14,[9] sometimes with other boys as well. He said the sleepovers weren't planned and that he and others would just fall asleep when they were tired.[citation needed] Culkin was described as "calm" during an "aggressive" cross-examination.[9]

* Wade Robson confirmed that he had slept in the same bed with Jackson, but he denied that anything inappropriate ever happened, including inappropriate touching.[22] Robson's mother, Joy, admitted in cross-examination that her son went missing for three days with Jackson, causing the police to get involved. But, like the sleepovers, she was confident this was all innocent, and her son confirmed it.[24] She said that she trusted Jackson and considered him to be a member of her family.[22] Joy Robson testified that Jordan Chandler and his mother were often at Neverland when she and Wade were, and she felt that Chandler's mother was a "gold digger" who treated Neverland as if it were her own and wanted to be its "mistress."[25] Robson's sister Chantal testified that she had slept in Jackson's room four times during her childhood with her brother and never witnessed anything inappropriate.[22]

* Brett Barnes slept in the same room as Jackson for a year according to the testimony of Barnes' sister, Karlee. Barnes testified that Jackson did not act inappropriately: "No, I wouldn't stand for it."[22][25] Barnes' mother Marie testified that nothing ever happened between her son and Jackson.[22]

Charlie Michaels and Charmayne Sternberg were also planned prosecution witnesses, but they did not testify. The witnesses included some of the "Neverland Five" (former security guards Ralph Chacon, Kassim Abdool, and Melanie Bagnall, former office manager Sandi Domz, and former maid Adrian McManus) who lost a lawsuit in 1995 against Jackson. The two boys of whom Melville did not allow evidence are Jimmy Safechuck and Jonathan Spence.


Edit .....Below:

I actually think the only question that needs answering is whether he was a child predator or just quite dense in the head.


And that question is really where the OP started..... Some insight into his strangeness??? I don't believe that he was a pedophile but I do believe that he was either very naive or as Hilly so eloquently put it "dense in the head :-)
 Hilly1971

Joined: 4/15/2009
Msg: 103
The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/30/2009 12:26:37 AM
I have to be honest and say I cant understand why the not guilty verdict keeps being thrown around like some kind of proof the man was not a Charlie. Other posters as well as myself have already acknowledged that he was found not guilty at trial...but there should have been two other trials that never happened, because he bought peoples silence and was indeed a master manipulater. Of course there can only be good reasons why he chose to spend millions of dollars rather then prove his innocence in the courts...he was a good bloke after all!

I have heard the "He was told to pay the money" and the "He was controlled by other people" arguments and I dont buy them. If MJs every move was dictated and controlled as people are saying then my guess would be that these "Controllers" would certainly not have let him get himself into that position in the first place. Money is money and if MJs lawyers, spongers, entourage...whatever you want to call them knew he was innocent there is no way in hell they would have told him to pay over that amount of money. If they knew he was guilty on the other hand.......

He did as he wanted, was found out and then had to pay to buy silence. As far as I can see he must have been a bit simple as well to think he could do it over and over again.....or beyond rehabilitation...as the saying goes.

I saw a quite recent interview on the television, where even after all this he refused to say he would stop and not have other peoples children in bed with him...do you not think if he was truly controlled by others at this point they would have told him what to say and that it had to stop?

I actually think the only question that needs answering is whether he was a child predator or just quite dense in the head.

Personally I really dont care that much to be honest as he is dead. One of my biggest concerns about the whole thing is that his children appear to have been given temporarily to his parents. If all the stories he spouted when he was alive about the terrible, abusive childhood he suffered at the hands of his parents are true then you really have to feel for and worry about his children.
 CavesBeach

Joined: 11/28/2008
Msg: 104
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The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/30/2009 3:34:01 AM


it seems he got off 1 charge of molestation, but have you forgotten the part where the jury never got a chance when he paid 2 kids around 22 million dollars to settle out a court



Perhaps the prosecution should do their homework before further posting ......


you forgot to add this to the defence's case, same wiki web page

On January 1, 1994, Jackson settled a civil suit out of court with the Chandler family and their legal team for $22 million. Jordan Chandler refused to testify in the criminal proceedings

reiteration *yawn*

not one single Mickey J fan has answered either question I have asked ..
**would you have let your child stay at M.J if you peeps are so sure ???
**If he was found guilty would you M.J lovers still say nice things about him??
 possibilitarian

Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 105
The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/30/2009 4:21:53 AM

Personally I really dont care that much to be honest as he is dead. One of my biggest concerns about the whole thing is that his children appear to have been given temporarily to his parents. If all the stories he spouted when he was alive about the terrible, abusive childhood he suffered at the hands of his parents are true then you really have to feel for and worry about his children.


I totally agree. It will be interesting to see what the next few weeks unfold.


you forgot to add this to the defence's case, same wiki web page


I have already repeated myself once tonight so rather than do it again check post 79..... Gosh I'm glad you aren't my lawyer


not one single Mickey J fan has answered either question I have asked ..
**would you have let your child stay at M.J if you peeps are so sure ???


Post 98:

But seriously…No I wouldn’t allow my children to have involvement with someone that had had serious allegations of child abuse against them, this doesn’t mean I agree with the allegations nor does it prove they are true, it just means that when it comes to my kids I generally prefer to err on the side of caution. This in itself leads me to question why the parents involved didn’t also play it safe, perhaps their motives weren’t entirely pure.


And for the record... I agree ... plus.... my kids don't do sleepovers unless they are going to family or long time friends of ours. If MJ was a friend that might be different but, I would be staying over too


**If he was found guilty would you M.J lovers still say nice things about him??


I can't answer that because, if they found him guilty we would be looking at a whole new lot of evidence.... and probably not having this discussion.
 CavesBeach

Joined: 11/28/2008
Msg: 106
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The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/30/2009 5:23:12 AM
for sale....monkey with white glove....great with kids...

possi : i stand corrected...didn't see julians early cut. and am glad you responded.
so it seems even the staunch supporters of mickey Jay would NOT leave their kids with him, atleast we are all on that same page..even if cuddling other peoples kids is cool.

you can defend him to the hilt, but at the end of the day its all just about evidence or lack of it :D it seems we all have doubt, some more than others
 Naamah

Joined: 6/13/2009
Msg: 107
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The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/30/2009 5:53:17 AM

not one single Mickey J fan has answered either question I have asked ..
**would you have let your child stay at M.J if you peeps are so sure ???
**If he was found guilty would you M.J lovers still say nice things about him??

1. I have avoided the question cos I don't have kids and I know my answer will just get "Oh yeah but you're not a parent"-ed. But, I know me, and based on the fact that I trust very few people to even babysit my animals (they must first pass intensive screening processes, and be what I determine, suitable persons) I know I would not show special consideration to him because he was MJ...no megastar would ever rate higher than those I love and am responsible for. I wouldn't let my kid stay over anywhere with someone I didn't know and trust. So if I knew him very well, and he'd formed a close bond with my child, and I had done my own scrutiny of this person over time, and I trusted him, and my child loved him, and wanted to, then yes I would. Just because I don't jump to believe everything the media and other people tell me, or make my judgements by running with groundless suspicions and prejudices, doesn't mean I would take a casual approach to decisions regarding my child.
2. Nope. I would never defend someone I believed was a child molester.
 possibilitarian

Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 108
The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/30/2009 3:01:36 PM
I believe that a lot...if not all of the time the parents were staying over too. Also siblings including girls,
a fact that seems to of been lost in the media but, if you read the evidence it is in there.


so it seems even the staunch supporters of mickey Jay would NOT leave their kids with him,


Caves, I am probably not the best person to ask concerning your question because like others I don't do trust well. However, my dis-trust is based on my own experiences as a child. Hence, my interest in this case. My personal experiences give me insight into what to look for in a pedophile and I don't see it in Jackson. I have seen it in others throughout my life but not in MJ. But, I don't know him personally so just like everyone else I have judged on what I read and not what I know. I think he was a big kid that only "acted" grown up when he was performing. He was obviously an intelligent human being as this was exhibited in the writing of his lyrics and music not to mention his brilliant choreography. (Einstein displayed brilliance beyond what we can ever imagine and yet was described as being "mad, crazy"). Jackson knew right from wrong.
Hilly stated in another post his refusal to say that he wouldn't encourage sleep overs again at his home. Could this be because he wasn't doing anything wrong? If you think about it... when a human stops a particular behaviour it is usually because it is recognised (by them, you would hope and others) as being morally wrong and damaging to those who are on the receiving end. To stop the behaviour is to admit that what you are doing is wrong. He obviously didn't feel that what he was doing was wrong (and perhaps those around him "advisers" agreed)...possibly because he wasn't.
 CavesBeach

Joined: 11/28/2008
Msg: 109
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The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/30/2009 6:34:54 PM

My personal experiences give me insight into what to look for in a pedophile and I don't see it in Jackson

I see you have read up on him, that you honestly believe he was a kid, only acting like a grown up for gig's.
but little kids dont care what they look like, snot hanging out their nose, pants on back to front, odd shoes and out the door they go. MJ changed his outside appearance, and not to enhance his aesthetics. it was like he didn't like the man in the mirror, he wanted to change who he was changing his face and colour, that sets alarm bells ringing for me. coupled with all the allegations and pay outs, self confessions,(forget lollies) building a child amusement park with choo choo trains. I just cant see any other conclussion that he is bad, or atleast maybe dangerous around kids.


Hilly stated in another post his refusal to say that he wouldn't encourage sleep overs again at his home. Could this be because he wasn't doing anything wrong?

most child molesters are repeat offenders. its been said they cant help themselvs.
I watched a man walk away from court a free man cause there was not enuf evidence.
3 seperate kids, 3seperate trials and 3 times he walked out. i saw a jury break down and cry after the judge told them this was his 3 charge.


If you think about it... when a human stops a particular behaviour it is usually because it is recognised (by them, you would hope and others) as being morally wrong

After the trails Mj abandoned neverland, he died in a rented posh joint in LA not far from his home. it would seem he did stop the child sleeping stuff..
 possibilitarian

Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 110
The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/30/2009 7:24:55 PM

MJ changed his outside appearance, and not to enhance his aesthetics. it was like he didn't like the man in the mirror, he wanted to change who he was changing his face and colour,


My take on this which, I have no evidence what- so-ever to back it up with ... He hated his father and didn't want to look like him and didn't want to be physically reminded of him when he looked in the mirror.... just another theory.


After the trails Mj abandoned neverland, he died in a rented posh joint in LA not far from his home. it would seem he did stop the child sleeping stuff.


He wasn't asked if he would stop the sleep overs at Neverland but at "home".... At the time of the interview the Neverland ranch had already been deserted. In fact... he was "broke" and I mean superstar broke not you and me broke...... due to the money he had given to those who accused him of molesting their children.
He lost the home that he loved, a place that he had successfully turned into his little piece of paradise. Something many of us would love to have. Jackson moved out of Neverland Ranch during his trial, saying he would never stay there again as it was no longer a home, just a mere house.
Some consolation to those who believe that he was guilty might be, that innocent or not in many ways he paid the price of a guilty man.
 Naamah

Joined: 6/13/2009
Msg: 111
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The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 6/30/2009 11:04:07 PM
most child molesters are repeat offenders. its been said they cant help themselvs.

and

it would seem he did stop the child sleeping stuff..

Kind of contradictory? You joining the defence?

I agree with Poss. Seems to me he knew he wasn't doing anything wrong and saw no reason to stop. But then they (and we) crushed his spirit. I can relate to that.
 spicynicegirl

Joined: 8/10/2008
Msg: 112
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The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 7/1/2009 12:10:00 AM
Time to put this thread to bed perhaps???

I'm mean how much do you really care about the guy? He's dead people. Be grateful and move on.
 ClockworkToy

Joined: 6/4/2009
Msg: 113
The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 7/1/2009 12:30:01 AM
I molested Michael Jackson
 ~luvUlongtime~

Joined: 5/9/2008
Msg: 114
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The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 7/1/2009 4:51:24 AM
^^^ What? You mean, like, over the past couple of days? Ewwwwwww....

Just imagine the media circus that MJ's kids are going to have to put up with now. I really do feel pretty sorry for them.
 Naamah

Joined: 6/13/2009
Msg: 115
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The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 7/1/2009 8:05:53 AM
"Where there's smoke...there's fire".

Or there might be one of these...

What is a smoke machine?

A smoke machine is an eletro-mechanical unit which produces clouds of smoke on demand. Smoke machines are used in theatres, nightclubs, film and television studios, theme parks and other entertainment applications to produce a smoke or fog effect which creates the illusion of fog, steam, smoke from a fire, and many other effects. They are also used to create 'safe smoke' in fire training scenarios, for leak testing of buildings and containers, testing efficiency of extraction systems and air flow in wind tunnels.

No adages were harmed in the making of this post.
Well, maybe just one...



 CavesBeach

Joined: 11/28/2008
Msg: 116
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The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 7/1/2009 8:27:23 AM
dont blame it on the sunshine
dont blame it on the moon-light
dont blame it on the goodtimes
blame it on the fog machine
 possibilitarian

Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 117
The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 7/1/2009 3:59:55 PM

She's right.....just look at OJ................but he was found guilty in the wrongful death case.And didn't live up to his end of that decision either.


R90sboxer exactly what are you inferring when you use the word 'either' at the end of your post?

I have to wonder why OJ's name keeps popping up in this thread... is it because there is a similarity in initials...MJ/OJ... the African American decent they both shared, "high profile" or maybe just the fact that they both had enough money to pay for good lawyers??? because, neither case is even remotely similar. What ever the comparison some may feel these 2 individuals have, personally I think they have none, and thank goodness neither would a court of law. If the courts had the same view we would have a court system that judges according to class and race. This behaviour is commonly known as 'racial stereotyping' ..... in addition stereotyping can also be seen in this statement....



But it certainly does give in to an old and trusted adage......"Where there's smoke...there's fire".
 Hawaiianluau

Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 118
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The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 7/1/2009 4:24:41 PM
^
The commonality between MJ and OJ is that they both walked away from the clutches of the legal system as innocent when a probable large majority of the public regarded both of them as guilty.
OJ was of course convicted in the second CIVIL trial and is in jail now on unrelated charges; found innocent in the original criminal trial.
 possibilitarian

Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 119
The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 7/1/2009 4:31:47 PM

The commonality between MJ and OJ is that they both walked away from the clutches of the courtroom as innocent when a probable large majority of the public regarded both of them as guilty.


I would disagree totally and say a probable large majority of the public regarded Jackson as innocent as opposed to a large majority of the media wanted him to be.... and an equally large majority but, of both public and media believed OJ was guilty. No similarity there at all.....
 Hawaiianluau

Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 120
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The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 7/1/2009 4:51:44 PM
There are heaps of others, take your pick.
Same exposure. Same entertainment trade. Same level of acheivment. Same perception of superstardom to risk. Same idol worship status. Same but different crime: both despicable acts of violence against a helpless innocent person or people. Same verdict. Same massive media coverage. Same historically questionable Los Angeles court system. And on and on.
 nevaagin

Joined: 4/8/2009
Msg: 121
The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 7/1/2009 5:50:08 PM
But , now we've got the autopsy , the cutting him open bit and the analysing of his poor body . No good the kids saying 'When can we see Dad ?" And then "Did the Doc inject Demerol and on and on and on .... " Poor Michael , bet all he needed was love as a kid and bet he didn't want this circus . Would have liked to meet him .
 Naamah

Joined: 6/13/2009
Msg: 122
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The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 7/1/2009 7:48:54 PM

The commonality between MJ and OJ is that they both walked away from the clutches of the legal system as innocent when a probable large majority of the public regarded both of them as guilty.

I guess we could do a comparison with Lindy Chamberlain. She was hung drawn and quartered by the public, and the media. One of the key points that caused people to decide about her case was that she didn't cry on camera enough and she had a bowl haircut, which obviously denotes a kid killer. She did jail time. Eventually they decided the evidence showed she was innocent after all. Oops, I mean, not guilty, for those who like to distinguish in that way so as to keep a distrusting finger pointed.

The public, quite clearly, can be wrong. And as I said earlier, even a flawed legal system is far preferable to a frenzied and ill-informed trial-by-public approach to justice.
 Robbbyg

Joined: 3/4/2009
Msg: 123
The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 7/1/2009 8:29:06 PM


If someone molested my child, would I take a payout to shut up?........hell no. But on the flip side of the coin, I guess you could ask yourself why an innocent man would want to pay huge sums of money to shut people up and make them go away. Im sure he had his reasons (apart from guilt) just as im sure the parents had their own misguided logic behind their decisions to allow him to get away with what he did.


from comment 13
You said you wouldnt take a payout if someone molested your child? meaning he didnt molest anyone that is why the parents of the child DIDaccept a payout, based upon your reasoning... they knew they would get a payout just by starting the crap.

An innocent man WOULD payout in this type of scenario to hush it before it went too far, S#%T sticks , millions would have been lost by this , everyone is jumping in for a meal ticket or jumping in to condemn him by calling him names and spreading dirt like you have done,

i feel the parents logic was not misguided at all, they were after some money simple as that, as far as economics goes they did pretty well and am sure they laughed all the way to the bank...

To call someone a kiddly fiddler without knowing them and basing your opinions upon commercial television news, or entertainment tonight tv shows is
derogatory and defamatory, whether or not he is innocent, the point is that at the end of the day he was found innocent, meanng to you and everyone he was innocent,

Defamation is actually a serious offence
 Hawaiianluau

Joined: 11/13/2008
Msg: 124
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The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 7/1/2009 8:38:40 PM

I guess we could do a comparison with Lindy Chamberlain.

Except for the fact that about one thousandth of .001 % of people have heard of her.

 Naamah

Joined: 6/13/2009
Msg: 125
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The Final Curtain for Jacko!!!!!
Posted: 7/1/2009 9:01:00 PM
^^^ Fair call if this was the global section of the forum or a forum intended to be used by locals from anywhere but Australia, but I doubt there'd be any Australian above the age of 30-ish who hasn't. We were drenched in it when I was a kid, and for years. For myself, I actually don't know much about OJ to be honest. Never even heard of him at all until the court case stuff and didn't really follow it.
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