| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/1/2009 8:57:15 AM |
As for the whole man thing - well ladies I guess I'm a traitor. WE decide whether or not a guy has to be a daddy - we decide to have a baby if he doesn't want it (and make him pay pay pay) - we decide not to have it when he wants it - we decide on adoption and he can go to hell if he doesn't like it...absolutely NOT FAIR in any way, shape or form.
I wish there were more women that thought like you. 
I disagree - guys make the decision to potentially be a daddy when they release their sperm. girls make the decision to potentially be a mommy when they expose their eggs to said sperm.
spin the wheel and take your chances - best of luck to those who play
Why is it then that the woman gets two chances to decide whereas the man only gets one? Is this part of the whole "it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind" thing? | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/1/2009 9:38:47 AM | until men can give birth its not our right to tell someone what they can and cant do with their body.
This is the same attitude the courts use to determine what rights a father has to his child.
Obviously, the woman knows everything because she gave birth to the child. Obviously the woman is going to be the better caretaker because she gave birth to the child. Obviously we should give the woman everything she wants in a custody hearing because she gave birth to the child. Obviously the man is an evil mean and abusive parent because the woman gave birth to the child.
Again, does it not take two to tango? And should the man not have some right in saying anything about the child?
I say it again, until women become asexual, men have (in most cases) just as much of a say in the decision of abortion/adoption of a potential child as the woman does. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/1/2009 9:43:20 AM |
As for the whole man thing - well ladies I guess I'm a traitor. WE decide whether or not a guy has to be a daddy - we decide to have a baby if he doesn't want it (and make him pay pay pay) - we decide not to have it when he wants it - we decide on adoption and he can go to hell if he doesn't like it...absolutely NOT FAIR in any way, shape or form. I wish there were more women that thought like you.
I am a woman and I think like that. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/1/2009 11:20:23 AM | | Pretty cruel and insensitive is all I can say. Pretty cruel to a child, to insist they be raised by someone unprepared or unwilling to raise them. One can only feel sorry for someone whose heart is so hard. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/1/2009 12:47:30 PM | wvwaterfall Whoa horsey....
As a former teacher, I've been exposed to children born into horrible situations who honestly may not have known a day of joy in their lives, and after knowing nothing but misery during their formative years, are unlikely to ever be a benefit to themselves or others.
I was one of those children that my parents never should have married OR had kids... I was brutalized for 15 yrs... During pretty much all of my childhood, I only knew misery, whether it be from the abuse, OR the nasty kids teasing me for my funny clothes, black eyes, split lips, and bruises... However I am very much worth while in society, and have done things a lot of folks could never imagine doing...
I have held the hand of the dying, and made sure they knew as they passed it was ok, they weren't going to the threshold alone.... I held the hands of those going to survive but didn't know it... I have moved people so large and so sick that I ruined my neck for a life time... I have taught people kindness and love because that is what I have inside of me...
I teach people organic gardening for the love of gardening, good health, and love of mother earth... I lend a hand when they are ailing and help teach them different means when an ailment is simple, and they can suffer less with simple, but healthy and affective supplements...
I am starting the last of 2 quarters getting my Bachelors in the legal field, and intend to get my masters in legal advocacy... Put in 190 credit for my AA as an X ray tech...
The three kids I brought into the world are loving, 2 are college educated, third one will be, he's only 13, but he is a very well liked kid... They have kind hearts and give love to others that people in society turn their back on.... I also helped raise my former stepson to at least Try to break passed what his mother and fathers abandonment did to him...
YES, what you said DID offend, and it is because I TOO have volunteered for my kids school and worked with kids that made the teacher want to rip out her hair... Heck my middle daughter was one of the kids that raised havoc, and I was there trying my best to figure out what I could do better... She's now working towards becoming a Dr in the field of medical science..
Not all children are a waste if they have the worlds shittiest parents, believe me my parents are up there... Even with the horrible things they did, or allowed to happen, I talk to them and show them kindness...
I realize you said unlikely... You know what gave me hope through my "formative years" or at least during my teenage years... A photography/wood work teacher, and a Librarian...
The photo/woodshop teacher always told me "stiff upper lip", as I got bounced from foster home to foster home... The other just listened as I stumbled through rules upon rules, that I never had, like being grounded. My old home life was a split lip, or blackened eye, or a beating with a belt, bailing wire, or fan belt from the car until the welts started leaking blood...Just to name a few methods of punishment....
MAYBE I would have been better off not being born... However the lady with a dissecting aortic aneurysm wouldn't be alive today, because I wouldn't have been there to report it to the trauma surgeon to make sure it didn't rupture...
It's easy to say people shouldn't be parents, or need not have kids do, and these kids suffer, BUT some of these kids turn out damn worth while...
I'm going to gracefully step off my soap box.... I still suffer from what was done to me FROM TIME TO TIME... However People who know me, marvel at the fact that despite my parents I am a pretty dang good human being...
Being born into a shitty family isn't a choice... AND YES, some kids maybe better off not living the life that I or others who have had even worse... BUT what our parents did, doesn't mean when are destined to be like our them, we may be like YOU... | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/1/2009 12:52:01 PM |
As for the whole man thing - well ladies I guess I'm a traitor. WE decide whether or not a guy has to be a daddy - we decide to have a baby if he doesn't want it (and make him pay pay pay) - we decide not to have it when he wants it - we decide on adoption and he can go to hell if he doesn't like it...absolutely NOT FAIR in any way, shape or form.
we cant stop you from getting an abortion,but your wrong as far as adoption goes.dont get me wrong adoption is a viable option if both parents agree. but after, what is it 6 weeks into the pregnancy, the daddy does get rights. if you think courts put up with that attitude these day then really need to be prepared for guys like me. this is one guy who wants to be a daddy and who's got the funds to rip a woman with that kinda attitude a new one in court.
like it or not ladies,that kinda thinking is no longer acceptable in this millennium. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/1/2009 1:03:36 PM | Jerold from your post of 76, and this one you have me confused... Are you saying you have taken your GF to court to prevent her from having an abortion, or she got one before 6 weeks in her pregnancy...
I will have to look up the law, it could be different in Texas, but I haven't heard of this...
Men have been walking away for a very long time, leaving a woman to raise a child, or a gaggle of them...
I never made the choice to terminate, however my daughters fathers made the choice to walk... I have no regret, (with the exception it was really hard for my daughters seeing a mum worked to the bone that she ended up in the hospital extremely ill..)
I see a lot of people say that people should think, and these people should know there is many types of birth control... Until about ten or so years ago, it was pretty expensive to get birth control, and a teen had to have consent from a parent...
I was 19 when I had my first child, however religious dogma, and being with an overly horn dog teen male, I didn't have much of a chance... There will always be a means for one gender to feel that the other has short changed them... | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/1/2009 1:37:20 PM |
YES, what you said DID offend,
My apologies for any offense. You clearly are an exception to my perhaps too broad generalization.
It's easy to say people shouldn't be parents,
That's not my position. I only say that women should have the choice whether to carry a pregnancy to term. I'd no sooner force a woman NOT to be a parent than I would TO be a parent. Inept as my analogy may have been, I was simply trying to illustrate that there are circumstances where a prospective mother may well feel that the best choice to make is to not introduce a child into an untenable situation, and I respect her right to make that choice.
Once again, I apologize for offending you. Congratulations on making so much of a life that started with so many challenges.
Dave | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/1/2009 1:53:33 PM | Thank you Dave...
Actually what I meant when I said, "it is easy to say people shouldn't be parents" usually is after the fact, and they are a huge disaster, creating an emotional train wreck of a child...
I agree that since it is a woman that is bearing the burden of a pregnancy, it is she who should say whether she can do it or not... I know someone extremely close that got preggers on the pill, because of the once in a 100 chances of ovulating during a cycle...
She was to deep in school, and working to add a child to the mix, as well the ltr was already out of balance, so add a child to that, and what a mess that would have been...
For me, I don't have to agree one way or another, I believe what I believe, HOWEVER for others I would NOT put my own belief into their own situation... I too respect a woman that feels that way...
I have seen the young teens making poor choices, because they are looking for LOVE... That is another, ohhhh child child CHILD, babies don't bring love, they take it, and a lot of it for a very LONG time... The love they give back, is the love and tenderness they have received, not the other way around...
Thanks Dave, and I am willing to bet YOU would be surprised how a kind word, a gesture that gave a child hope very well made the difference of having no belief in themselves or life, and fighting just a little harder... It is a reward you just don't always get to see...
Best thoughts...  | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/1/2009 2:11:26 PM | she got one without telling me. she didnt even bother telling me she was pregnant , just went and did it. she has a child with asburgers(sp) autism. its genetic and there was good chance any child she has will be born with it. her baby daddy couldnt deal so she assumed i couldnt. its not beating your head against a wall autism. asburgers is very functional form of autism(like add) and besides my sister has down syndrome with severe mental retardation so its not like i cant deal with a disability. there should have been a discussion first.
i cant stop a woman from getting an abortion. that's her right. theres no risk to my body and i dont have to give up anything because i cant carry the child for her. i dont have to like it and i dont have to agree with it but its her body and her business .
what im saying is once it gets past the time limit when she can have an abortion(i think its 6 weeks but im not sure) and she has decided to keep the child this is when it becomes a guys right to decide if he wants to be a part of the childs life and a women cant take that right away from a man..well in this state anyway. if a women doesn't want the child at birth and a man has already told her "im going to be this baby's daddy and i wont sign the papers for adoption" and then she gives that baby away at birth she can get in allot of trouble these days. i work with a guy who has full custody of his son. the woman signed the adoption papers after he told her no. he didnt see his son till he almost a year old but he got his son and she had to pay all his court costs and lawyer fees and got charged with something that had her on probation for 10 years. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/1/2009 3:50:58 PM |
Now, now, futureshock, I've come to except that women have no thought for men's thoughts or feelings!
I now know why they're on this site, it's not for us it's for them!
lol! Except that..oops! I am a woman. :) | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/1/2009 4:36:05 PM |
I am willing to bet YOU would be surprised how a kind word, a gesture that gave a child hope very well made the difference of having no belief in themselves or life, and fighting just a little harder... It is a reward you just don't always get to see...
Oh, not surprised at all. Not only did I too have teachers who made a huge impact in my life with what I'm sure to them was a minor gesture, I still every now and then meet a former student who recites verbatim something I once said and have long forgotten that they've never let go.
And it isn't just children. I hope we're all still capable of being touched in a special way when we need it most.
Thanks for being so gracious.
As you were, everyone....
Dave | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/1/2009 6:28:29 PM | OK Jerold, it is jurisdictional as to what is considered to late for an abortion, at 12 weeks the abortion is performed differently... However from looking through my legal reading it can be between 18 and 24 weeks... However 24 weeks is really pushing it, and a good number of jurisdictions and drs don't or won't go there, because this "fetus" can be a live birth... This for a lot of people is a horrible experience...
24 plus weeks there can be viability, with extreme measures taken to care for the premature baby...
You are right, there can be some major issues if daddy doesn't want to sign papers, and momma thinks daddy is an idiot, and can't care for himself... HOWEVER, there are a good number of single women that are complete idiots, and daddy can't force her to put baby up for adoption...
Jerold, it is a slippery slope and one that will never be gender equal... That is just a reality of things...
I am sorry that your last GF made a choice you didn't agree with... I suppose for her having two mentally challenged children would be to hard, PLUS if you weren't the father, then who's to say you wouldn't have just walked???
It probably was a tougher choice then you think...
My son is 13, but looks forward to RESPONSIBLE parenthood... I have never seen a child (male) that was so excited to grow up to be a dad... You kind of remind me of my son's deep passion for wanting to be a father, that is a good quality... | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/2/2009 6:43:48 AM | Well, if she chooses adoption - and doesn't name the father - what can be done about that? Unless the man comes forward (and if he's not told about the pregnancy how can he) there's no way to know.
Again...it seems to me that women get all the choices, and that's just terribly unfair. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:35:02 AM | | If adoption and abortion are out of play...then unsafe sex should be as well. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/2/2009 8:02:51 AM |
Why is it then that the woman gets two chances to decide whereas the man only gets one? Is this part of the whole "it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind" thing?
Poor men, boo hoo. Lucky women with the extra 'chance' to take reponsibility for the consequences of TWO people's actions.
If you're dead serious about aborting any accidental pregnancies, get sterilized before you risk it. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/3/2009 10:33:18 PM |
If you're dead serious about aborting any accidental pregnancies, get sterilized before you risk it.
I think you are assuming that people who don't want to have a child if they get accidentally pregnant (or get someone accidentally pregnant) just don't want children, ever. This is false in most instances. What is the case is for many people is that they just don't want children right then, or maybe they already have as many children as they can handle at the moment. However, they do want children in the future. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/3/2009 11:28:41 PM |
No abortion, No adoption! You've made your bed
WOW...
whoever said this must think-
that the world is either black or white, no shades of gray
is a religious zealot and to be feared or
has no compassion and is to be pitied | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/4/2009 8:03:25 AM | Nope, just assuming that if someone is willing to abort an unplanned baby - willing to insist on it to avoid any financial responsibility, then that someone should take a long hard think about getting sterilized. Giving up your chance for 'maybe someday children' is not as big a deal as taking away an unplanned baby's chance at life, imo.
Abortion sometimes leaves a woman infertile, messing up any 'having children in the future' plans, at least for that woman. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/4/2009 8:35:56 AM |
Abortion sometimes leaves a woman infertile, messing up any 'having children in the future' plans, at least for that woman.
So does childbirth... at much higher rates. I happen to think that it's up to the woman to make the decision to chance it. Not someone else. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/4/2009 12:55:29 PM |
Poor men, boo hoo. Lucky women with the extra 'chance' to take reponsibility for the consequences of TWO people's actions.
If you're dead serious about aborting any accidental pregnancies, get sterilized before you risk it.
Modern feminism at its finest.
"GENDER EQUALITY! GENDER EQUALITY!"
"Uh... you actually have a bit of an unfair advantage here."
"Shut up and take it like a man!" | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/5/2009 3:00:22 PM | Women have forgotten what it was like before abortion was legal and the coat-hanger was their only option post-conception in amn unwanted pregnancy. No abortion and no adoption would remind them.
If women want to have care-free sex, they can get sterilized before hand.
Consenting to sex does not equal consenting to be a parent. This is something referred to in the verdict for women in Roe v. Wade. Why should this principle not be applied to men as well? | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/5/2009 4:16:47 PM |
If women want to have care-free sex, they can get sterilized before hand.
Same goes for men, consenting sex is two sided and if a man spills his sperm and that creates a baby he too could have done something different to prevent it, LIKE getting his vasdefrens (sic) cut, or slap a condom on...
I do remember studying before Roe vs Wade, it was horrible, and many women lost their lives to back alley butchers... What happened to the men who made a deposit???
Two consenting adults consent to a lot more than a tumble in the hay, so being responsible on some level by both parties should be a given... | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/5/2009 5:17:00 PM | | I was simply flipping the ridiculous argument on its head. Consent to sex in one case should not mean the preclusion of becoming a parent in another case. Post-conception options should be had by all. If the woman as one party makes the choice to be a mother knowing the your former sex partner does not want to be a father or father children with you, there should be an option. The law as it stands punishes males while holding female sexuality unaccountable. Various traumatic abortion procedures notwithstanding. | |
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| No abortion! No Adoption!
Posted: 7/5/2009 5:37:12 PM | | The person who made that statement probably has control issues. He wants to force his will on others. Even to the extent of insisting those who agree with his abortion stance should also be forced to raise the child. A pro-lifer should be allowed to give the child up for adoption if she is not ready for parenthood. He merely takes the whole "all people should live and think like I do" mantra to the next level. | |
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