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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 9:08:37 AM |
Wow I can't believe this is a point of discussion- crop circles have been PROVED to be a hoax- definitively.
Are you just saying this? Have you looked into it at all?
Some students from MIT tried unsucessfully to hoax one. The Discovery Channel tried to hoax one. many others have tried, So far, no one has done one successfully.
The answer is so simple. If so called genuine crop circles are a hoax, then people should be able to build one. This would forever put the issue to rest. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 9:18:58 AM | | Wayward Willow does make a fair point, the most impressive formations are not only spectacular in scale and complexity, but the layering of the crop just makes the task much more difficult. Farmers would have to give permission for people to spend many days in the field creating these circles, making detection of the culprits almost certain, but no, they still form overnight ! | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 9:47:50 AM | | 'Rocketman'' (I like your name by the way:), people are free to believe what they want as you well know. I am partial to a good conspiracy theory.....but In my opinion (and that is all it is). Crop circles are not the result of wind, microbial life or space aliens. All things being equal (many would argue that the evidence is not equal and actually in favor of the anomaly being given to a hoax), the most logical thing 'should' be assumed. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 9:51:33 AM |
...The answer is so simple. If so called genuine crop circles are a hoax, then people should be able to build one. This would forever put the issue to rest...
Ok then lets put it to rest then.
Crop circles are patterns created by the flattening of crops such as wheat, barley, rapeseed (also called "canola"), rye, corn, linseed and soy.
The term was first used by researcher Colin Andrews to describe simple circles he was researching. While patterns involving complex geometries have been observed, the term circle has stuck as a generic term crop patterns.
Many circles are known to be man-made, such as those created by Doug Bower, Dave Chorley, and John Lundberg. Bower and Chorley were awarded an Ig Nobel Prize in 1992 for their crop circle hoaxing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_circle | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 10:40:41 AM | Every so often, aliens with physically impossible FTL technology like to visit earth, make a few crop circles, mutilate a few cows, and stick probes up our butts.
They do this because highly advanced civilizations have nothing better to do.
There, you have all the facts. Now can we please put this ridiculous BS to rest? | |
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dlros
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Joined: 10/14/2008
Msg: 57 | |
| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 11:22:11 AM | Well first off, I don't think it's BS, I feel it's legitimate to try to understand phenomenon that has not been fully explained. And everything I've seen and read on the matter has shown the circles to be recreated after some effort, so yes I have looked into it; but really that's not the point, is it? This really says it all:
"The real circles however can not be hoaxed"
What is wrong with that statement? It's very similar to something I heard recently 'there is life on Mars, we just aren't looking in the right place'.
UFO's, religious zealotry, racism, spiritualism all feed off of this logic. Real science is reliable because it doesn't approach analysis in that way, it uses deductive logic rather than inductive.
From a more practical point of view; ask yourself WHY? That is a critical part of any analysis. Can't be art, any intelligence creating it would be aware of the impermanence of the media, and the fact that almost nobody would see it. Is it communication? Nope, I think it's obvious that "they" don't want us to know they are here. Beacons? Unlikely, again not permanent. And since these crop circles are so impossible to make with our technology, I'm sure these guys have the ability to navigate in a more advanced way than just primitive symbols.
One could go on like that, but in the final analysis; while the evidence is inconclusive (it always is in any scientific endeavor) it still shows overwhelmingly who wins the debate- "hoax" is the only way to go. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 12:41:14 PM |
any intelligence creating it would be aware of the impermanence of the media, and the fact that almost nobody would see it. Is it communication? Nope, I think it's obvious that "they" don't want us to know they are here. Beacons? Unlikely, again not permanent. And since these crop circles are so impossible to make with our technology, I'm sure these guys have the ability to navigate in a more advanced way than just primitive symbols.
Indeed, as Mr. Hadyn pointed out in Contact, any sufficiently advanced civilization intent on communicating with us is going to do so with efficiency operating on multiple levels and in multiple dimensions...and he didn't mean the metaphysical kind.
Or, the point I think author Carl Sagan might have been trying to make with the book, if they wanted us to hear them, we would hear them. We wouldn't be able to debate it because it would be right in our faces. They wouldn't be stomping down crops. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 12:41:22 PM |
"The real circles however can not be hoaxed"
What is wrong with that statement?
There are two kinds of crop circles.
Those that are obviously man made, evidenced by stems being broken, or damaged by being flattened by a mechanical devise, and obvious flattening which is evidenced by the crop looking like tufts of hair laying in the same direction with some stems standing vertical.
And those circles which are unexplained, or genuine circles. These are evidenced by having bent stems without damage, an interwoven pattern in the stems, and no damage to the stems. There are also other things like an elaborate circle appearing over a couple of hours, and some appearing within less than an hour as verified by pilots flying overhead, The Julia Set formation beside Stonehenge. Which by the way has security guards watching it.
http://cropcircleconnector.com/Sorensen/classics/classics.html
Of course the circlemakers took credit for making this circle, but they were unable to reproduce it.
When I mention “real circles” I am talking about circles that are unexplained. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 2:37:22 PM | | if this is the Crop Circles in Australia they were found to be caused by stoned wallabies who would get into fields of poppies eat them then while stoned run around in circles | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 4:04:43 PM | I prefer to think of them as crop art. Having been a farmer earlier in life, I appreciate the intricacies of the art viewed from the air, but even if done on the ground without breaking stems and leaving signs of large human impacts. The growing complexity over the years is a testament to the artists. I scoffed at the first circles long ago, but as the years have gone on and the artistry evolved, I do have to wonder how this can be done overnight without the cover being blown. I have also seen a couple of highly inexplicable flying objects in this life that do leave open the possibility that not all great art is done by the locals. Check out the Lucy Pringle archives. The growing season is obviously the most active.
http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/photos/2009/jun.shtml | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 4:40:14 PM | PS...I also enjoy the mathematics bent of some of these pieces of art. Ponder if you will, that mathematics could be universal in their application, and that if we were to try to communicate with others, or others with us of higher or lower frequencies, that it would be a means to do so.
This one was intriguing to say the least.
http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/articles/Unique_Signature/ | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 8:31:59 PM |
genuine circles. These are evidenced by having bent stems without damage, an interwoven pattern in the stems, and no damage to the stems.
If you crop circle alien theorists could get your story straight, this would be easier. As it is, it's just the No True Scotsman fallacy, over and over and over and over and over... you get the picture. I thought true circles had bent stems that had exploded from within. Hello?
When I mention “real circles” I am talking about circles that are unexplained.
So, what happens when they ARE explained, like the one with the "meteoric iron" that just happened to be slightly uncommon, but easily obtained, fine-mesh reduced iron powder? IIRC, it was THE benchmark for a "real circle" for quite a while. Once it was explained, the definition of a "real circle" just "moved."
Also, does this mean aliens tore up my garden? Because I have been at a complete loss to explain it. The dog was inside, I have a very good fence, and the motion sensing lights never went on.
Willow, PLEASE go look up the word "credulous." You're starting to embarrass me. er, yourself. | |
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dlros
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Joined: 10/14/2008
Msg: 65 | |
| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 5:28:53 AM | Right on, desertrhino!
A phenomenon is debunked, the theorists move the bar until the next one is debunked, and it goes on and on ad infinum.
Did you ever notice that if you pretend to throw a ball for a dog he will go off in the direction of the "throw"? He'll do it over and over and over, but sooner or later in his little dog mind he figures out "eureka! THERE'S NO BALL" and loses interest. Well, I guess we've never reached that level of intelligence as humans- they just go on and on and on until they are gone-but of course it never ends because they have passed their fantasies on to the next generation-in the meantime we still don't have a cure for cancer; but MIT scientists can still get grants to roll logs around in fields.
Have to disagree with you about "credulous"; I think it's more like "contumacious" | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 5:44:03 AM | It's all very well you trying to mock other people desertrhino, but it is the view of mainstream science that alien life is a certainty, there is a whole cosmos out there !.
I dont think we can be sure they would have any interest in us, maybe the planet would interest them, and if they want to doodle in our crop fields there's not a lot we can do about it. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 5:56:41 AM | Wayward willow,
The real circles however can not be hoaxed.
And the eternal question is,how do you tell a 'real' circle from a man made one?
Answer is, in 30+ years of research, no one as yet has managed to come up with a definative litmus test.
<div class='quote'>Stems of crop are bent at the node without damage and not broken, even in crops like canola that breaks like celery when bent. The closest thing scientists can come up to explain this is a form of directed microwave energy, which they are unable to recreate.
Crops are bent at the node due to phototropism, particularly in young crop. Barley 'fluffs up' again very quickly after being flattened.
Canola doesnt always snap when bent. thats a myth that has been disproved. Its subject to phototropism just like any other plant, and there are pictures to show that known commisioned formations have bent canola or node bending in them.
<div class='quote'>Stems are layed down in an interwoven pattern one stock at a time, sometimes many layers thick. This can not be done with a board and string.
Commisioned circles show the same interweaving, nests, swirls and patterns as circles of unknown origin.
<div class='quote'>Many of the patterns created would take a crew of dozens many days to create, and have been created in hours. The back roads of England are packed with people and cameras all hoping to catch a picture or video of a crop circle being made, and many times these intricate circles have appeared almost beside them.
If mapped out correctly with precisio the circles woud take a team of engineers days to make, but they are not all accurate to precision, most if not all circles have geometric mistakes in them.Even the most experienced circelemakers make mistakes.
They also have computer mappring and GPS to their advantage now.
Crop circles dont appear during the day,despite one allegedly appearing in ther day there has never been definitive proof.
<div class='quote'> Making crop circles is also against the law, and there is a reward for information leading to arrest.
That doesnt hold much water with circlemakers, in the same way people have no problem with copying CDs . | |
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dlros
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Joined: 10/14/2008
Msg: 68 | |
| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 7:17:52 AM | Woe "fatedstar" you are going to create a firestorm with THAT one- mainstream science has NOT proffered the idea that alien life is a certainty, only that it is a probability. And in all fairness, the mathematical odds of them visiting us; or even existing at the same time as us, are almost nil.
I for one believe there is life out there; and recent physics theory suggests it might be possible for them to visit-but it's so unlikely as to be laughable.
And if they are, crop circles won't give us the answer. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 8:11:22 AM |
but it is the view of mainstream science that alien life is a certainty, there is a whole cosmos out there !.
Which, if true, would still have no bearing. There could be civilizations out there to rival even Gene Rodenberry's most optimistic vision of alien civilizations around every star and yet there'd still be absolutely no evidence they're stomping down crops.
The most likely of explanations is the simplest one...terrestrial causes, specifically dominant bipedal species. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 8:12:37 AM |
but it is the view of mainstream science that alien life is a certainty, there is a whole cosmos out there !.
Which, if true, would still have no bearing. There could be civilizations out there to rival even Gene Rodenberry's most optimistic vision of alien civilizations around every star and yet there'd still be absolutely no evidence they're stomping down crops.
The most likely of explanations is the simplest one...terrestrial causes, specifically dominant bipedal species. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 9:40:39 AM | most likely chemically altered state teens......
crop circles are like seeing jesus or the virgin mary in things....... do you really think aliens if they wanted to communicate would do such random strange stuff? Same with god.... If he wanted to let you know something he wouldnt put his face on toast or on a potato chip or in a stain on a urinal...... | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 10:11:17 AM | >>>Of course the circlemakers took credit for making this circle, but they were unable to reproduce it.
An aunt of mine once made this really nice Ice Cream cake- it was made in the shape of a watermelon. But, it seems, that since she first made it, she's been unable to make it as successfully again since.
Does that mean aliens made it the first time? | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 10:17:51 AM | any half assed detective would tell you .... look for motive .... first.
then you may be able to figure out who.
none of you have yet to present a valid motive
it started as .... the remnants of a landing or near landing to ..... geometric absurdity.
microwave plotter or laser plotter of some sort .... patterns have advanced in line with our technology ... not with some extraterrestial technology ...
its funny how their advances always seem to mirror ours
by logic this actually discredits the idea of them existing and makes it all to be more likely a hoax [that sells a lot of books and movies] with a potential of recouping some of the costs through production and publishing affiliations.
an expensive joke by some secret pranksters [like the odd fellows]... is the most likely motive. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 6:25:19 AM |
I thought true circles had bent stems that had exploded from within. Hello?
Genuine crop circles are bent at the node, with some nodes having expulsion cavities. Hoaxed crop circles are pushed down with a stick causing many of the stems to kink which can kill the plant, and also causes damage to the stems from the stick.
So, what happens when they ARE explained, like the one with the "meteoric iron" that just happened to be slightly uncommon, but easily obtained, fine-mesh reduced iron powder? IIRC, it was THE benchmark for a "real circle" for quite a while. Once it was explained, the definition of a "real circle" just "moved."
If you read the peer reviewed published paper you would know that the Semi-molten meteoric iron found at the crop circle cannot be reproduced by some fool throwing some Iron powder around.
http://www.bltresearch.com/published/semi-molten.php
Again, Rhino. Do some research before you speak, or write. | |
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