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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/3/2009 8:30:27 AM |
For instance have been looking at pyramids for thousands of years, and we still don't know how it was done. Yet people are fairly satisfied with that fact, or accept one of the various theories out there.
But when it comes to certain issues, like alien life, crop circles, paranormal and religion, otherwise brilliant people suddenly lose their minds- very strange.
Totally different. It has been pretty much proven that the pyramids could have been done with manpower alone. There is no explanation for how genuine crop circles are produced. Hence my claim that they are unexplained. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/3/2009 8:34:06 AM |
What does this really mean? Obviously, one of the links you provided show a couple of failed attempts so hoax circles have been investigated. People have come forward to say they have created circles. There's an entire group of artists (for which a link has been provided) who have claimed authorship.
This is the problem, and my point. Everyone and their dog has come forward and claimed that they are the circle makers. There are more circle makers sticking their heads out of the barley than you can shake a stick at.
Why can they not demonstrate to the public how they make them, and then have them scrutinized by investigators. Simple question. If you make the claim you are making them, then demonstrate. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/3/2009 8:39:53 AM |
There has never been a crop circle hoax that has been investigated by investigators. Never.
On the contary, man made circles have been investigated!!!! its jut that you havent seen it splashed all over your favored CC site, whichever that is!
Ron Russel springs to mind, and Peter Sorensen.
here has never been a crop circle produced by hoaxers that has the characteristics of genuine circles. Stems bent without damage or kinking, Interwoven stems sometimes in opposing directions of up to 5 layers thick which can only be made if the stems were layed down one at a time in different directions simultaneously.
Again you are stating that like it is fact, when you actually have nothing to back it up.
Wayward, it is no good you attacking others for what they have or havent looked up and then not presenting anything conclusive yourself.
In fact, reading back, it seems you have totally ignored my points to you, including the one where I have asked you which circle you mean that exhibited your claim of interwoven stems?
Are you ignoring my points because I do actually know what I am talking about???
n 1996, a 115-metre-wide spiral of 151 circles appeared in broad daylight in full view of a busy road, just opposite Stonehenge, within a 15-minute time-window (according to testimony from pilots, a farmer, a security guard, and motorists calling the police). A professional surveying engineer said it would take him about two full days to lay out the design.
Oh good grief not the SH Julia set again!!! There has been so much debate over that, and nothing has been really concluded from it. But then if you had done your research you would know about the controversy surrounding that circle.
Next you willbe claiming Oliver castle was real...
Here is a site showing some pictures of different formations, many with crops layed down in different directions. The second one from the top shows a hoaxed one. See the difference.
If that is your sole arguments to show the difference between man made and 'genuine' circles then it is falling down very flat!
I could show you some beautiful nests and swirls and claim they came out of a genuine formation, when I know they didnt!
Until someone can explain how they are made, they remain unexplained. End of story.
And that is exactly the sort of closed-minded attitude that I have encountered in croppys over the years, its a la la la la stick fingers in ears! If you really want to prove they are genuine, then you need to get your facts straight and really research, not rely what is put up on dubious websites! | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/3/2009 8:44:25 AM | Diros,
But when it comes to certain issues, like alien life, crop circles, paranormal and religion, otherwise brilliant people suddenly lose their minds- very strange.
Have you ever heard of Leon Festinger? If not I recommend you have a quick google, look for Cognitive dissonance or When prophecy fails. Both are based on the actions you describe above, its a very good read  | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/3/2009 11:53:00 AM |
For one thing, the Meteoric Iron was found in only one formation appearing shortly after the intense Perseid meteor shower in August. 1993.
From the paper"Out of a four year investigation of plant tissues taken from over eighty crop formations. located within five countries, we report data from a single sample set "
For another thing. The Iron was imbedded in the plants in a semi molten state. So it seems unlikely to me someone would have carried molten Iron particles to a crop circle site.
You either didn't read or didn't understand the paper whose link I gave to you. Reduced iron powder it produced by reducing iron oxide with hydrogen gas at high temperature, and it produces very small molten droplets of iron which then solidify or freeze. The initial analysis was faulty. The paper at the end of that link provides easily-reproduced experiments duplicating all the features of the alleged "semi-molten meteoric iron." Do the experiments yourself. You can get the exact same reduced iron powder here: http://www.sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/10416/SLI1147
This is the problem, and my point. Everyone and their dog has come forward and claimed that they are the circle makers. There are more circle makers sticking their heads out of the barley than you can shake a stick at.
Why can they not demonstrate to the public how they make them, and then have them scrutinized by investigators. Simple question. If you make the claim you are making them, then demonstrate.
Because that would ruin their fun. The pros are doing this as a method of artistic expression which has the added benefit of LAUGHING AT YOU. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/3/2009 3:29:02 PM | "Earthpuppy. I'd say that you were a man of Earth in your outlook. In keeping with that, when I read your messages, I feel like a child :). They are good in my opinion."
Thanks Brightspark. It's difficult as we mature, to keep a sense of wonder and awe at things like the crop art. I was raised on Grimms Fairytales as my German grandfather learned English by reading me into fantasy lands. When the lights started rising out of the river bottoms and into the infinite skies at night, there was no panic amongst those people, just curiosity and the ability to admit they didn't know all things. A neighbor became so enamoured by the phenomenon, that he and some buds built a UFO welcome center complete with coffee and donuts. Their interest waned after a couple of years without visitors. He documented hundreds of strange light events going on in the bottoms over his life there. In the Navy, I experienced some quite delightful luminescence moments but nothing like the guys in the Gulf did in 2007.
There are elements beyond our immediately available senses that we may never understand. The crop art is particularly intriguing from it's precision and complexity, the lack of catching people in the act other than scammers who sought the credit for all of them, the energy studies that have been done within the art pieces, and the personal testimonials as the circles were being created. I hope they remain a mystery and source of awe for those willing to keep pieces of their inner child with them as they mature and fight growing cynicism. | |
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dlros
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Joined: 10/14/2008
Msg: 107 | |
| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/3/2009 4:21:51 PM |
Totally different. It has been pretty much proven that the pyramids could have been done with manpower alone. There is no explanation for how genuine crop circles are produced. Hence my claim that they are unexplained.
Nope it's the same.
There have been dozens of explanations that have been related right here in the threads. You just don't accept any of them. Just like the few Alien/Atlantis/Pyramid proponents still left out there. Their logic is the same as yours. "We aren't able to reproduce it", "there are flaws in the so called proof".
What we are really debating about here is validity of the method used to come to the conclusion, and the adequacy of the evidence offered on both sides.
The problem we run into in the discussion is that the argument on the "pro" side is open ended. If we agree with your assertion that the circles remain "unexplained", the discussion breaks down to a stalemate because that assertion can't be tested. You can forever discount any evidence offered by saying "that circle isn't genuine" literally forever. Forgoing the actual subject of the discussion and addressing the method of argument, can anyone see what I'm saying? | |
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dlros
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Joined: 10/14/2008
Msg: 108 | |
| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/3/2009 4:28:19 PM | There are elements beyond our immediately available senses that we may never understand. The crop art is particularly intriguing from it's precision and complexity, the lack of catching people in the act other than scammers who sought the credit for all of them, the energy studies that have been done within the art pieces, and the personal testimonials as the circles were being created. I hope they remain a mystery and source of awe for those willing to keep pieces of their inner child with them as they mature and fight growing cynicism.
Wow I feel a little bad, I second "brightspark" in his praise of "earthpuppy"'s words.
I'm not attempting to bash anyone's sense of "childlike wonder". I think it's something we all need... I would just like us all to direct some of that wonder towards the beauty and majesty of TRUTH and HUMANITY. There is so much beauty all around us much of it unexplained. I choose to wonder at the incredible realities in the universe, which I'm happy to say will keep us guessing for millennium to come. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/3/2009 6:41:21 PM | The Hubble pictures of billions of years past keep me humbled at how powerful and unknowable, most things are.
http://hubblesite.org/gallery/
Someone once said that we are comfy viewing our future through our rear view mirrors.
It's all more complex and inexplicable than our imaginations can handle. That is why we have to create gods, religions, and skepticism at the same time. I am comfy in not knowing. How many others can handle that? | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/3/2009 8:05:11 PM | Yes, but earthpuppy, where's the fun in that? What we know is what got us that Hubble Deep Field picture and is able to put it in perspective for you. Otherwise, it might otherwise just be a pretty picture drawn by a two-year-old.
And, as a science fiction fan, I think it's pretty safe to say that the future, for good or ill, has been and can be imagined based on what is happening today. It is, after all, humans who are moving into that future.
What amazes me is people who are content to fill the world with the fantastical without really looking into just how fantastic everything is that really is there. We don't have proof that alien life is out there. But there is a concerted effort to find that alien life using the scientific method. Certainly not sitting in the lotus position in the center of a circle of stomped-down wheat, trying to "align their chakras."
We understand much of the natural history of life on this planet. However, there is still plenty of holes to be filled and scientists are the first to acknowledge that. In fact, they're more keenly aware of just where the holes are. They can't afford to suppress information. That would actually be counter-productive.
And it's amazing the "anti-science" sentiment that is out there and comes out in forums like this, even though it was made possible because of the efforts and the needs of science. Rather than reading conspiracy and crop circle websites, the OP would have been better served reading an edition of Sci-Am, Discover or Archaeology Today. I'm sure it would have been far more interesting. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/4/2009 2:47:36 AM | | I also saw the Hubble deep field image, and yes , science is fantastic, but what struck me was that, can we really be sure of the scale of the universe, its dimensions, can we really know enough to give it a time scale of 13.7 billion years. I think this number is another of the ' moveable ' facts that science comes up with !. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/4/2009 3:24:01 AM | As far as anybody knows 'fatedstar' the universe could be contained within a walnut. Science agrees that it has movable boundaries.
EDIT: Its Saturday and I'm off for a cold beer with some friends :) | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/4/2009 6:52:16 PM |
I also saw the Hubble deep field image, and yes , science is fantastic, but what struck me was that, can we really be sure of the scale of the universe, its dimensions, can we really know enough to give it a time scale of 13.7 billion years. I think this number is another of the ' moveable ' facts that science comes up with !.
The number of 13.7 billion is based on a progressive series of efforts to date the universe starting from local sources including Cepheid-class variable stars to Type 1A supernovae and other 'standard candles.' Together, they give a pretty good timeline.
However, scientists are quick to acknowledge the fact that everything in science is up for revision. In fact, I've seen scientists far more willing to acknowledge that "facts" are fluid than those who criticise science for being set in its ways, elitist and "covering up" evidence. You get somene convinced that the government or science is "covering up" something, and chances are you won't be able to discuss any kind of alternative. It's their way or no way. Science doesn't have that luxury, if it wants to stay true to its mandate. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/4/2009 11:29:21 PM | It is possible that Crop Circles are a communication through Sound to the planet to inform and raise consciousness/frequency.
For me, the assumption of plasma and microwave energies are not incompatible. It is well-known in physics that there is a characteristic "plasma frequency" which is a measure of its cut-off frequency. Frequencies below this will be attenuated and/or reflected, while the frequencies above will propagate through with a real-valued "index of refraction"; i.e., as if it were an optical material. The unusual feature of the crop circle plasma is that it has no obvious confining walls. In a lab-based plasma, the "sheath" is generally a magnetic field, or a standing-wave pattern of microwaves. In the case of arc-discharge, the ultra-fast current created by breakdown into ions and electrons sets up its own constrictive "sheath" by Ampere's circuit law. So where is the magnetic sheath in a crop circle? And how is it positioned so carefully?
One opinion which seems to keep rising to the surface is that there has to be a "ground component" to this whole phenomenon. A number of facts support this idea. The stalks are bent at 90 degrees at a consistent distance with respect to the topsoil (1 inch is typical). The CC sites are located on ley-lines and points connecting other geographic features (i.e., roads, sacred sites, farmer's plough marks, etc.). One researcher has reported that there is a 90% correlation with water from the ground, and the beginning of the plant stem is arguably the locale for the highest density of flowing H2O throughout the plant. Anyone who wishes to pay respects to Gaia as the mother of this whole invention may also do so at this juncture; there is ample room for telluric forces and gravity effects. (The stalks do fall downward, after all is said and done!)
My personal opinion is that we are not even scratching the surface yet. If you look into current research in plasma physics, you will discover that resonant structures such as "flute-shaped," toroidal, or "ballooning" structures can be formed inside of a plasma. If you classify the plasma as "far from equilibrium" then you are opening up a Pandora's box of unknown phenomena which may or may not be spontaneously generated. It is a generally accepted notion since Ilya Prigogine did his work on thermodynamics of dissipative structures, that in situations far from equilibrium, new order is established internally by self-organization. These new ordering "structures" tend to reflect the boundaries and "sheaths" of the host medium. Perhaps the plasma light that people have reported in crop circles is confined by sheaths of telluric fields which are geomagnetic. Then that would imply that earth fields are moveable and have fluid properties. Personally, I like what Barbara Hand Clow mentioned in her new workThe Pleiadian Agenda. While speaking from her "Satya" channel, she mentioned that Pleiadians consider the interaction of gravity and stellar light to be the most essential information. (read: "inner formation").
I think that stellar light is the capstone of the creative pyramid, which guides and directs certain transformations of matter and energy. In this scheme, a plasma is only the fourth phase of matter out of seven, with gases, liquids, and solids toward the base of the pyramid. Gravity is the matrix which binds and gives continuity in the sense of Einsteinian curved space around matter. Gravity is traction, while stellar light is inclination. Stellar light might be the plasma that appears during crop circle formations, but governed internally by a genius loci, not a laboratory emulation. (The dictionary defines "genius loci" to be the presiding deity or spirit of a place; it has the same root that appears in genesis and generation.) I think that to proceed further along the lines of these admittedly "New Age" ideas, one would have to look closely at the evidence of the plants themselves, to see what specifically has been transformed. Is it the conversion of ammonia in the nitrogen cycle? Is it the cell turgidity changed by some water diffusion process that has been altered? Are the dissolved gases in the xylem tubes the same concentrations as in the control samples? Or are the changes affected entirely at the genetic level, and somehow rapidly dispatched into new cell copies? (This would accord with B.H. Clow's channeled message that DNA has a "stellar component.")
In the long view, it may not even matter what the current theories and public disclosures proclaim. The fact that you became interested, and opened up just enough to look at some new ideas -- THAT might be the best occurrence yet! | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/4/2009 11:43:41 PM | Modern science now shows that these geometric rhythms lie at the centre of atomic structures. When Andrew Gladzewski carried out research into atomic patterns, plants, crystals and harmonics in music he concluded that atoms are harmonic resonators, proving that physical reality is actually governed by geometric arrays based on sound frequencies. Even that primeval Hindu sound, the OM, from which is derived our modern term 'hum', when sung into a tonoscope produces the very geometric shapes attributed with 'sacredness'.
In the February 1992 edition of Science News, Prof. Gerald Hawkins used the principles of Euclidean geometry to prove that four theorems can be derived from the relationships of elements in crop circles. More significantly, he discovered a fifth theorem from which he could derive the other four. Despite an open challenge, over half a million subscribers have been unable to create such a theorem, which Euclid himself only hinted at twenty-three centuries earlier in his thirteen treatises on mathematics. So it came as a slight surprise when its equilateral version materialized as 160,000 sq. ft. of flattened barley at Litchfield, Hampshire.
Since Hawkins' Euclidean theorems also produce diatonic ratios, a link exists between crop circles and musical notes, themselves the by-product of the harmonic laws of sound frequency. Soon, crop circles bearing unmistakable associations with sound then began to appear. One contained a curious ratchet feature from which is constructed a musical diagram also dating to the Egyptians, the Lambdoma. Also known as the Pythagorean Table, it defines the exact relationships between musical harmonics and mathematical ratios.
In 1996 another crop circle demonstrated the combination of two important figures: the 3-4-5 triangle and the Golden Mean, producing the geometric diagram necessary to produce musical ratios. But it was a convincing formation at Goodwood Clatford- which had its plants bent six inches from the top- that gave the proverbial nod to sound, for here was a representation of a cymatic pattern etched in 5000 sq ft of barley | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/5/2009 6:53:39 AM |
In the long view, it may not even matter what the current theories and public disclosures proclaim. The fact that you became interested, and opened up just enough to look at some new ideas -- THAT might be the best occurrence yet!
Actually you touch on a good point there Crystalcleariver, the journey that crop circles take you on is more important than the destination. So many people are rushing to find out the origin, the destination, that they miss what they can learn on the journey.
Crop circles are beautiful, and stunning, and for me that will always remain regarldess of origin.
Since Hawkins' Euclidean theorems also produce diatonic ratios, a link exists between crop circles and musical notes, themselves the by-product of the harmonic laws of sound frequency. Soon, crop circles bearing unmistakable associations with sound then began to appear.
Indeed I have some beautiful crop circle music on CD.
However I still think diatonic ratios are a happy coincidence that also be found in nature, rather than a product of alien intelligent design. Geometry is and always has been based in nature.
In 1996 another crop circle demonstrated the combination of two important figures: the 3-4-5 triangle and the Golden Mean, producing the geometric diagram necessary to produce musical ratios. But it was a convincing formation at Goodwood Clatford- which had its plants bent six inches from the top- that gave the proverbial nod to sound, for here was a representation of a cymatic pattern etched in 5000 sq ft of barley
Which formations were those? If you have place and year I can find them. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/5/2009 8:44:38 AM | All I can say crystal is that you wrote a whole lot but said absolutely nothing that made any sense to me. It sounded like the usual quasi-religious/New Age rhetoric that you usually hear when it comes to trying to apply spiritual significance to physical processes.
Just out of curiosity, what is the source material for this "analysis?" Do you have a background in physics? Have you actually studied any of the material that you opine about here? | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/5/2009 8:52:25 AM |
Just out of curiosity, what is the source material for this "analysis?" Do you have a background in physics? Have you actually studied any of the material that you opine about here?
At least part of it is an uncredited cut-n-paste from: http://www.cropcirclesecrets.org/crop_circles_sound.html | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/5/2009 9:17:34 AM |
At least part of it is an uncredited cut-n-paste from: http://www.cropcirclesecrets.org/crop_circles_sound.html
That would explain why it doesnt make sense!!!
Crop circle secrets in not the most reliable or crediable site!! | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/5/2009 4:24:08 PM | | try looking them up on Google Earth...or better yet...on you-tube...I found some wild stuff doing that! Google earth and you tube had some very strange things on it. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/7/2009 2:07:41 AM | | Yes, I did a simple copy and paste above, but the scientific data is complete and can be backed up by further search by date and specific, individual crop circle analysis. The point I want to make is that geometry is a Language and when Conscious Sound vibrates/speaks to the earth and all life here, it is to share a message that affects us on so many levels... mental, emotional, physical....down to the cellular/quantum/spiritual. Crop circles have nothing to do with religion, new age or any human mental construct. Let us value the journey, as written above.... | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/7/2009 2:12:46 AM |
Crop circles have nothing to do with religion, new age or any human mental construct. Let us value the journey, as written above....
The belief that ET is behind the circles is bordering on religious, with accompanying cognitive dissonance. This is the reason why perfectly sane ordinary people, are moved to pour such vitriolic hatred on crop circle makers, without even having met them or know anything about them.
Its also the reason why in the lucrative crop circle merchandise business, people are threatened and discredisted for pinching a slice of the cake.
Thats the human cost of circles, kinda sad because sitting in a circle really is a peaeful and beautiful experience. | |
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