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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/10/2009 4:07:10 PM | Ok, explain why there are no examples of evolution on the planet, and dont say because it's so slow, as I said there are millions of species on Earth, there must be some species that can be seen to be modifying !, some fish growing legs, some reptile who's scales are changing into feathers, anything !.
How about the manatee? Good enough example?
[edit] Oh yeah, let's not forget those pesky antibiotic resistant bacteria strains.
however evolution and the big bang theory are entirely belief based 'facts ' !
No, they're science based on observational evidence. | |
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dlros
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Joined: 10/14/2008
Msg: 152 | |
| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/10/2009 4:10:28 PM |
Ok, explain why there are no examples of evolution on the planet, and dont say because it's so slow, as I said there are millions of species on Earth, there must be some species that can be seen to be modifying !, some fish growing legs, some reptile who's scales are changing into feathers, anything !.
It's odd that people feel evolution does not exist in our current environment. While evolution in the highest animals takes far too long to observe, we can and have observed evolution in many lower species with lifetimes that can be observed over the span of many generations.
The best example is that of viruses that develop a resistance to medications. The medicine will almost completely eradicate a disease in the body, but if one or two of these cells are resistant to the meds, they can divide and reinfect. These changes occur as a result of genetic mutation, which occurs with statistical certainty. The human body is the ecosystem- there are competitors (other germs and bacteria) and predators (medication, host defenses). Evolution is the process that makes one mutation live, and the other die, at which time genetic processes continue and repeat.
Am I getting off topic?? :( | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/10/2009 4:34:49 PM | I guess that there will always be a percentage of the population that goes 'against the grain' in all manners of thinking and behaving. Sometimes it is useful and stimulates social/culture evolution (no pun intended) in a postive direction and other times not. I am grateful to all the freaks, the weirdos, the eccentrics, the visionaries, the mad scientists, the outcasts, the rebels, the banished, and the lost, so much of what we have and believe we owe to them.
I would think that satalite technology should be able to clear-up the 'crop circle mystery' once and of all and we should be able to see how such circles manifest. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/10/2009 5:13:38 PM | Well Cyke, evolution is the easy bit, but first you must create a cell, nothing else matters until you can do that, as for creation, there many scientists that believe in the Genesis account, why, because it actually does fit, it is not a story.
Science is important, valued and respected by me, but we cannot declare ' facts ' when our knowledge of the universe and life remain very limited. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/10/2009 7:14:21 PM |
Science is important, valued and respected by me, but we cannot declare ' facts ' when our knowledge of the universe and life remain very limited.
So, because there are gaps in understanding, we're going to reject its most basic tenets? Talk about a giant leap backwards.
there many scientists that believe in the Genesis account
There's a difference between believing in God having a hand in creation and believing in a literal interpretation of Genesis. That's not science. It's storytelling. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/10/2009 10:22:16 PM | >>>but first you must create a cell, nothing else matters until you can do that, as for creation
Why is this so hard for people to understand?
EVOLUTION DOES NOT EXPLAIN HOW LIFE WAS CREATED- IT NEVER WAS MEANT TO
Evolution explains how life became so complex- not how inanimate matter suddenly animates. From our understanding, it has only happened once in nearly 5 billion years, and all life since came from that first spark. You're arguing apples and oranges, complaining that our best understanding of how life became so complex is flawed because it doesn't explain everything in the known universe. If someone asked "how did life become so complex?" you think the answer for evolution is wrong because it doesn't answer the unrelated question of "how did life first form?"
Seriously- stop trolling this thread with discussions of how Evolution somehow contradicts the bible, and discuss the actual OP- Crop Circles, and what they are. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/10/2009 11:55:52 PM | I wonder why there aren't a bunch of science and philosophy types invading the religion forum and pissing off the sheep over there.
So you have never visited the religious forum, eh? In the past, it seems that more than half the answers on the religious threads were atheist. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/11/2009 12:17:46 AM |
Well Cyke, evolution is the easy bit, but first you must create a cell, nothing else matters until you can do that, as for creation, there many scientists that believe in the Genesis account, why, because it actually does fit, it is not a story.
Science is important, valued and respected by me, but we cannot declare ' facts ' when our knowledge of the universe and life remain very limited.
Ah so you now admit evolution is apparently easy when a few posts ago you dismissed it?
Fatedstar, do you actually know anything about evolution and prokaryoticancestry? Or have you read a few bits and just think you know!!
EVOLUTION DOES NOT EXPLAIN HOW LIFE WAS CREATED- IT NEVER WAS MEANT TO
Spot on Jiperly!!
My guess is that confronted with evidence and points that he cannot explain regarding CCs, fatedstar is now desperately trying to divert the discussion. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/11/2009 12:18:26 AM | Interesting debate.
The concept of life forms more intelligent than ourselves freaks people out.
The Human species is rather over rated in its own eyes imho. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/11/2009 1:03:17 AM |
Interesting debate.
The concept of life forms more intelligent than ourselves freaks people out.
The Human species is rather over rated in its own eyes imho.
Agreed. People don't always react well with the ideal that 'something else is out there'.
However the other side of the coin is those who embrace an idea and take it to its limits of blind faith, preaching in an almost religious fashion to those who they consider skeptics.
Unfortunately the 'fringe loonies' give everyone else with an interest in the subject a bad name. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/11/2009 5:15:15 AM | I just came across this thread ~ very interesting!
I am a Christian however I am not here to debate the concept of Creation or Evolution. I am here to read and see what I can learn.
Having said that I would like to express my view on the aforementioned. Sometimes Science and the Bible go hand in hand just from different perspectives!
A friend of mine is a Scientist and we have compared some notes:
There is a great story both in the Bible and in Science texts where the Sun stood still for a certain amount of time. You Science minded may know what I am talking about. Biblical scholars will also know what I am referring to. In the Bible it was so that a war could be won, that God did it to allow that to happen. In Science texts it is a strange phenomena.
Then the famous parting of the sea in the Bible, is also in Science texts as a complicated set of events that allowed that to happen by natural causes.
The writers of the Bible did not have the all the scientific data and info that we have to explain these things....but if they did perhaps they would have credited God with making it all happen to have His purposes accomplished.
My faith in God is large enough to encompass the possibility of mystery or it would not be faith. Faith according to the Bible is things hoped for but not seen.
I could believe in God and still believe in evolution...
I could also believe in other life forms and still believe in God...
Thanks for letting me share!
Some may argue either way..and that is just fine :o) | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/11/2009 5:17:28 AM | The best example is that of viruses that develop a resistance to medications. The medicine will almost completely eradicate a disease in the body, but if one or two of these cells are resistant to the meds, they can divide and reinfect. These changes occur as a result of genetic mutation, which occurs with statistical certainty. The human body is the ecosystem- there are competitors (other germs and bacteria) and predators (medication, host defenses). Evolution is the process that makes one mutation live, and the other die, at which time genetic processes continue and repeat.
I'm not a science buff , but isn't that "adaptation" not evolution? | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/11/2009 7:46:28 AM | I'm not a science buff , but isn't that "adaptation" not evolution?
Both are the same thing. Species evolve by adapting to new conditions. Moths that rely on camoflage darkening their colour in response increased pollution covering trees, for instance. The lighter ones are eaten by birds, allowing the darker ones to continue onward and carry their adaptation into future generations.
For an example of change in speciation, look up cetacean evolution.
Oh, and back to the OP...crop circles...there really is no mystery. Hoax. That simple. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/11/2009 9:27:38 AM |
For an example of change in speciation, look up cetacean evolution.
I think that cats have also shown strong evolution evidence. Because the are so aloof, Tigers, lions, and housecats don't mate with each other, and probably couldn't if they tried. K9's on the other hand, are social critters, and a wolf and a dog can mate. Is it any wonder that Tom Leykis calls a woman who doesn't want sex a "cat lady?" | |
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dlros
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Joined: 10/14/2008
Msg: 165 | |
| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 7/13/2009 7:49:19 AM | Hey "cyke" I see your point about the off-topic bit, but before the religious folks got here the discussion had already veered off topic a bit. But it really did so organically, it wasn't any one person. Personally if it doesn't become JUST about "it" I don't mind the input from the religious folks. How does the moderator feel?
People don't always react well with the ideal that 'something else is out there .
I could not disagree more. In my experience people will do and say ANYTHING just to prove we are NOT alone. I'm not one who believes we are alone in the universe, but if we are, well who cares? I find that people (for reasons I find difficult to understand) feel much happier, safer, and more comfortable believing in G-d(s), ET, spirits etc. What the seem to react badly to is atheists and humanists.
Regarding the nice lady who just joined the discussion, she's obviously intelligent and well spoken, and has something interesting to contribute. Yet she felt it necessary to include this correlation of science and religion. It's sad because what it does is show those of us who are more skeptical of religion that people just can't stop being apologists for their faith, which in turn deepens our skepticism. She's right it's apples and oranges. Then why contradict herself and compare them at all?
Quick comment about adaption; as far as I know adaptation is the ability of an existing organism or group of organisms to adapt behaviorally to a changing environment.
Evolution is a process that occurs due to selection and mutation. Adaptation: active, Evolution: passive. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 8/1/2009 7:49:52 AM | Crop circles are very easy to make, the key is in the fact that they are circles. You attatch a peice of string to the center of the circle and walk round. A measuring device is all that's needed so that one knows how far to walk.
The designer would plot out all the distances on a plan. All of the tools required for making crop circles are readily available in any school. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 8/1/2009 9:21:49 AM | There are crop circles out there that are man made and look every bit as good as genuine formations at a glance. Some man made formations are incredible and really show how diverse we are in our skills and abilities.
With that said, anyone in this thread who claims all crop formations are man made knows nothing about the subject. There is plenty of evidence to show that some formations would be impossible to man-make, and it deals with electromagnetism, microwaves and how these things affected the plants themselves.
I love it when people proclaim things and clearly haven't done any kind of research into their claims.
If you take some time and do research, you'll find that there is something to this, and it doesn't involve men, ropes and boards. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 8/1/2009 2:31:31 PM | Being the off-the-wall-utter-nutcase-paranoid-conspiracy-theorist type, I'd like to suggest that some of the crop circles are created by researchers "testing out" their fancy new satellite mounted, adaptive optics fitted, power source (chemical, plutonium, solar?) as yet unknown, illegal under international law, CNC precision, top secret maser cannons (created under Reagan's Star Wars program), firing microwave radiation sufficient to heat the ground & stems, such that they can't support themselves & fall over nicely.
They also make pretty designs in the grass.  | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 8/1/2009 7:00:06 PM | http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/photos/2009/uk2009ce.shtml
Skeptics, please provide some real evidence that these crop art pieces can be constructed in the dark, undetected, overnight, and with no human traces. Look at the pics and tell us how you would do it that way. | |
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| Crop Circles, what is behind this mystery ?
Posted: 8/3/2009 5:37:16 PM | as they said...show me the cheese. Have not seen a decent expose' yet on fakers getting caught in the act, nor replicating the intricacies, mathematics, and physiology of the bent stalks in real time. Please send references. How did you do these undetected?
http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/photos/2009/jul.shtml | |
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