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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/8/2009 12:34:25 PM | ^^^ Deerdog,
I love the stories of divorce and remarrying, or getting back together....It like love wins in the end. Good for both of you.
I am very glad to see the even though people want to sound narrow minded intolerant, that's not the reality of everyone.
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Life has big joys and big hurts and sometimes we need to accept that people do the best they can.
Example.
What does a spouse (40's 50's) do if they have a cancer ill partner that can barely walk and eat for few years??? Stay celibate??? Divorce her???? Take good care of her/him and if need arises discreetly arrange a friend? | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/8/2009 1:48:44 PM | Selfish people, dishonest people, and people who lack integrity would be the ones to think that there is justification to cheat.
The people that I've known in my past that have cheated exhibit all three of those characteristics as people. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/8/2009 2:05:01 PM | I don't really think cheating really can be morally justified, it's a betrayal of trust and respect that can only come from a relation which has already failed. Generally speaking, cheating is usually due to a failure of communication and a lack of empathy. If one side has a higher libido than the other, both parties need to discuss it and come to an acceptable solution. Some can be greedy and some can be callous but these differences still need to be resolved. If one side is unwilling to partake in such negotiations and willing to cheat as a form of compromise, they shouldn't be in a relationship in the first place.
I also want to add, though, that I feel very little pity for those who get cheated on as a direct result of their attempts to extort their partner using sex. Someone who is deliberately withholding affection from their partner in exchange for favors, money and power should not be in a relationship either.
I guess whether or not they should be in a relationship is irrelevant though; the reality of it is that they are. For those to whom separation is not a plausible option, cheating seems to become the lesser of evils. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/8/2009 4:38:07 PM | To me,a cheater is no better than a child molester.You gain their trust,intentionally hurt them for your own selfish needs,and screw them up for the rest of their lives.
I like how they handle cheaters in the Islamic world....several hundred rocks to the head. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/8/2009 4:51:40 PM |
Yikes! String 'em up by the nutz!!! don't bring David Caradine into it !!  | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/8/2009 4:56:01 PM |
several hundred rocks to the head.
Only to the woman, and even if she was raped. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/8/2009 5:57:31 PM | I guess I can't justify cheating, it is the ultimate betrayal by someone who supposed to care about you. Hard to trust someone after that, it keeps me up at night sometimes... Once the trust has been broken there is always a part of me that holds back, the affectionate lovey dovey, I wanna just stare into your eyes part.
Regardless if you love the person or not I don't think it can be the same, unless you are with one of the few people in the world who can be utterly & completely vulnerable..... (but I have met one yet, myself included) | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/8/2009 9:25:52 PM |
To me,a cheater is no better than a child molester.You gain their trust,intentionally hurt them for your own selfish needs,and screw them up for the rest of their lives.
Maybe you should contact my ex, she's mixed feeling about hanging with a sick lazy guy twice her age, particularly after my kids and their friends whined bunches while she drove them around town on her gas card.
There is cheating and it does hurt. Truly and deeply, its a wound that some don't recover from, ever, 30 years down the road you can see it in everything they say. But what exactly is that?
From distant recollection its a break in a contract to find out about one another and develop together. If you're looking to understand another person then another shows up with some crazy tantalization to drag that person away,.. its cheating. I've seen it -- it hurts. One sent a note today that rings a distant recollection of that time. She's pissed, back in university a female bud of mine moved in on her guy, impressed him with a do anything wildness, had a kid, etc. She (the mover-in girl) didn't let me keep any of the pics- they're 33 years old anyhow.
Other posts detailed what doesn't seem to be cheating. I don't want to rehash what's said. If you don't care about the person, and you've zero - 35 intention of being involved with them intimately ever, and proved that for more than a decade, they're not cheating on you.
Prvt33r
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/8/2009 9:43:03 PM |
several hundred rocks to the head.
Whether this is a joke or not; I want to add that, as bad as cheating is, retribution over it should never be condoned or encouraged. However much you love a person, you do not own that person. Everyone is free to have sex with whomever they choose; it's their life and you have no right to stop them. You can choose not to associate ever again with this person, but under no circumstances should cheating be considered a viable excuse for illegal/violent actions. I know, it hurts and it sucks, but deal with it sensibly.
Yikes! String 'em up by the nutz!!!
Why are you advocating the stereotype that child abusers are all men when there is nearly as many female child abusers out there? You may have meant it as a joke but I really don't think you understand how harmful of a label this is towards men. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/8/2009 11:58:27 PM | thegirlintheforum... Post 146 pg 6: if you read what I said properly.. You will see that in no way do believe in cheating.. There isn’t one man out there that would do any of the mentioned things in post 123.
All of them would have a change of heart if they had to come clean about their actions before doing so. It makes them think is the consequence of "cheating on her ” really worth it? IF!!! He could be honest with her. Do you really think men or women that cheat are honest with the one they are cheating on? I hardly think so.
I’m not sure where your getting at but I don’t believe in cheating nor was I ever insinuating that it's OK..
I thought I made that point pretty clear!
To address what you said.
As for abandoning the marriage? I don’t think that is the answer either. To abandon something is to leave it without an explanation. Why not just cut to the chase and say “this is not working out “I want a divorce and move on to find what you want. Before you connect to someone else you must become unattatch from the one you are with.
Why cheat?
Why abandon anything?
Why not just stand up to them and say and do the right thing! Ask for a divorce then find what you are looking for!
Nowhere in her statement does the OP mention a disability. It’s about the money, and all he has worked for and so on.
Read what she said.
“Man has worked very hard for many years, nice house, kids, material possessions, etc, but has no intimacy at home. Chooses to stay in the marriage as he knows the alimony will crush him, she stays home, raises kids, and he will lose half of everything he has worked so hard for. So he seeks intimacy outside the marriage.”
Look again what she herself mentions as to what will “crush him” The alimony he has to pay to her, the house and all the materialistic things he worked so hard for. Not one mention of the wellbeing of his children after the divorce.
It’s actually pathetic that she even thinks like this if you ask me.
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/9/2009 4:54:44 AM | I wanted to comment on the cheating on your disabled husband or wife... but I think Kenny Rogers explained how I would feel if I were in that situation...
Ruby by Kenny Rogers
You've painted up your lips an rolled and curled your tinted hair.
Ruby are you contemplating going out somewhere?
The Shadow on the wall tells me the sun is going down -
Oh Ruby
Don't take your love to town
It wasn't me that started that old crazy asian war
But I was proud to go and do my patriotic chore
And yes, it's true that I'm not the man I used to be...
Oh Ruby I still need some company.
Its hard to love a man whose legs are bent and paralyzed
And the wants and needs the needs of a woman your age, Ruby I realize,
But it won't be long i've heard them say until i'm not around
Oh Ruby
Don't take your love to town
She's leavin' now 'cause I heard the slammin' of the door
The way I know I've heard it slam one hundred times before
And if I could move I'd get my gun and put her in the ground
Oh Ruby
Don't take your love to town
Oh Ruby
God sakes turn around
(ok, maybe without the murder)
The disabled person should have the right to decide if they wish to allow you to pursue others physically, or to get a divorce and remove you from their life. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/9/2009 5:52:48 AM |
Look again what she herself mentions as to what will “crush him” The alimony he has to pay to her, the house and all the materialistic things he worked so hard for. Not one mention of the wellbeing of his children after the divorce.
"If a cheating spouse is a man, it's another woeful tale of men's selfishness and irresponsibility. If the cheating spouse is a woman, it's The bridges of Madison County, a best-selling 'romance', hugely popular among women. "
"If a woman ends a marriage, she is putting an end to a stifling and oppressive relationship. If a man ends a marriage, he is abandoning his family. "
I may not particularly agree with the above quotes but I can't help being reminded of them as I read your comment.
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/9/2009 6:36:06 AM | .
C2H5OH; Everyone has a right to their opinion; Like a3sholes, we've all got one.
I would have more respect for yours if you had "maned up" and not kept it from being viewed on your profile. Spacing it past the line that shows it to be seen on your posts tells me you yourself are ashamed of your opinion.
To me,a cheater is no better than a child molester.You gain their trust,intentionally hurt them for your own selfish needs,and screw them up for the rest of their lives. I like how they handle cheaters in the Islamic world....several hundred rocks to the head.
That would be too nice :)
Bitter much? Who stepped on your D*ck?
Of course there is the possibility that this was all tongue in cheek, in which case; Kudos for being a prize sh*t disturber.
 
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/9/2009 7:31:19 AM | TimelessRomance
Post 242
I love you post. I agree with you example. Here, the man is disabled because he went on a heroic mission...to war. This is a decision taken, to go to war, they kind of know what thye can encounter. I am sure they talk about all that with spouses, before deploying. I would kind of touch the subject. Lifestyle changes could be major.
A disabled person due to illness, is uncontrollable by either one of the couple. This just happens. I don't think you can ask a person on their deathbed if you give them permission to look for intimacy elsewhere. Those people are to be bothered the least, they need love and compassion. If the healthy spouse sneaks once in a while to get some apeacement for their needs....I'm sure they will do it discreetly. So this one case I can understand.
On a disabled but not ill person, things are different. Intimacy could be there, its a matter of imagination and resourcefulness, plus they are not dying....maybe in pain yes.
Of course as they get older, their organs might be compromised and get deteriorated....eventually. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/9/2009 3:32:46 PM | It's pathetic for understanding how tough a sit'n might be?
Here we go again, having to justify every freakin word...He, I use he as I am female, would be crushed with the entire picture...
nevermind...f8ck it..I'm not going to attempt to rewrite my initial post.
I can relate to both people with re to losing everything...People work hard...having to split custody etc...I'm glad I am not there.
and I should reiterate before I am FLAMED>....I DO NOT CONDONE CHEATING, I simply 'understand' it a lot more now than I ever did.
It is quite simple for me to say, 'hell ya I' d leave', even if it meant going from a nice secure home, seeing my children every day/night/ to a shack with every other week custody...Simple to state it as such as I am not living it, nor have I ever. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/9/2009 4:37:01 PM |
I wanted to comment on the cheating on your disabled husband or wife
Umm...aren't those types of songs heartwrenching? Let me tell a tale of an even more, real-life, hear wrenching situation.
Going to an instution to visit a spouse or s.o. who has no concept of who you are, much less whether or not you are celibate or soliciting every hooker in town. Imagine being a man only in your late 20's with a wife who will never recover, but with a percutaneous endoscopic gastrostomy feeding tube, can live indifinately.
A person with physical challenges, but retains cognitive abilities is a vastly different scenario, than one where the mind is either locked in its own nightmare, or doesn't function at all. Some disabled people are unable to make the decision of what to have for lunch, much less whether or not their spouse/partner should get a divorce or cheat. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/9/2009 5:26:25 PM | Rosiaq-
A disabled person due to illness, is uncontrollable by either one of the couple. This just happens. I don't think you can ask a person on their deathbed if you give them permission to look for intimacy elsewhere. Those people are to be bothered the least, they need love and compassion. If the healthy spouse sneaks once in a while to get some apeacement for their needs....I'm sure they will do it discreetly. So this one case I can understand.
I still don't think it's any better. If I was on my deathbed or seriously ill, I would rather die than have someone who supposedly loves me kiss me after having relations with another man. "In sickness and in health" does not have the caveat unless I decide to put my physical desires ahead of the promise I am making right here. Furthermore... if I am that ill I will probably be passing soon and most likely leaving everything to the one I love. That's the second kick in the pants. That I would leave all my worldly belongings to someone that can't even keep it in their pants until I die... or love and trust me enough to be honest with me.
Every person has the right to decide for themselves whether or not they want to allow their partner to take another the lover in the event that they cannot perform sexually any longer. And not to have that decision made FOR them. Lying is wrong.....there is no way to make it right.
As far as a persistent vegetative state , like I said in another thread somewhere.... you can get a divorce and give power of attorney to someone else if your need to fornicate supercedes your love and respect for your spouse. But I suppose MAYBE in the event like Terry Schiavo where the brain is only functioning enough to breathe and provide a heartbeat.... the argument could be made that the person no longer truly exists. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/9/2009 6:18:23 PM | roninvince...
Post 123. my own post. 'As for me? I will never agree with any one, man or woman cheating for whatever the reason is. If the marriage has gone to pot. The least you can do is tell her of your intentions. If you cheat you have to lie, if you lie what else will you lie about? You cant be trusted! And no I don’t want a man like that in my life for any reason!"
roninvince.....Read up... to know exactly where I stand on this matter. I don’t care if it's a man or woman doing the cheating.. To me cheating is never going to be justified in my eyes.
Do I favour the cheating women over a man? Absolutely not! There is no taking side according to male or female. Cheating is a choice that one makes. We either Raise the Standards or lower them. I will never make excuses or excuse anyone for cheating. There just isn’t one to be found!
Hope this clears things up.
Wild. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/9/2009 9:04:38 PM |
.... you can get a divorce and give power of attorney to someone else if your need to fornicate supercedes your love and respect for your spouse
Yes, you can get a divorce, but you cannot give a power of attorney to anyone for someone else. The principle may give a Health Care Power of Attorney to an attorney-in-fact. If a person has not authorized such a document before they become incapcitated, a person who wishes to assume legal responsibility for another person must apply to the state in which they live for guardianship, an expensive and fairly lengthy process.
If you file for a divorce from a person who is unable to legally enter into contracts, the state will appoint an adovcate to represent the interests of the person you are divorcing. At the time of the divorce, the state assumes whatever assets are judged an equitable division. Anyone may apply for guardianship of an individual deemed unable to care for themselves, however, when there are assets, states have a tendency to appoint a paid guardian to oversee the care and well-being of an individual.
If you see marriage as a legal contract, then the minute one person violates the terms of the contract, it becomes null and void.
If you see marriage as Holy Matrimony that prohibits sex outside the marriage, then divorce, except for very specific circumstances, is certainly taboo.
While the Christian Ten Commandments forbids adultry, there is really nothing in the marriage vows that specifically addresses that particular sin. Most people have heard the part of the wedding vow that says "keep yourself only unto her as long as you both shall live?" and interpret that as meaning you will be sexually monogamous, but somewhere along the line the words "forsaking all other" that originally prefaced the "keep yourself" part has been lost. It seems people didn't really want to make their spouse a priority over their parents, siblings, or even children. By taking out the "forsake all others" the meaning of "keep yourself only" has been lost.
I am against all forms of cheating in a committed relationship. Whether it is because a person devotes too much time to work, or becomes too involved with a million activities for little Johnny, becomes totally devoted to perfecting the game of golf, finds it necessary to belittle and degrade their partner, or spends hours looking at porn on the computer, IMO, they are all cheating and of equal measure.
That being said, as I have grown older and with much more experience of life under my belt, I have learned that not everything can be catagorized in stark black and white. There are reasons and justifications when good people do things against their nature and morals. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/10/2009 1:18:35 PM | | I have seen this route taken by friends and it never ends well. If it is needed to go to court there is a problem. Nasty things come out and I have yet to see a man get treated fairly by the courts. I as a man love my kids and what to be there for them, help provide for them, and be someone they can emotionally look up to and trust. My marriage is very civil but I can tell you I put up with alot. Do we argue? Yes we do but not very much, not any more than I see or hear of other couples I know. It was alot more when I was seriously thinking of leaving. My main point in this is that I believe 2 people get together because they make a choice that they are a compatible couple and that they choose to be intimate with each other. If you chose to take the intimacy out of any relationship how is that relationship then technically any different than any friendship you have with other people? I don't know of anyone who is allowed or expected to only have one friendship in their lives. If I chose not to be intimate with my wife anymore would I have the right to expect her never to experience that again? I know we all have choices, I am making mine and I can be at peace with it. Is what I am doing cheating? Truely cheating? Because remember I have a wife who has chosen not to be intimate with me anymore. I am only seeking that which I do not have, which is intimacy and not a relationship. I have the family life so that is not what I am looking for. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/10/2009 1:38:37 PM | munkeemaan, you bring up a consideration that I hadn't thought of much before. That is, you can't recreate the family life, the daily participation in your children's lives, and the stability that provides them if you break up the relationship. If your spouse denies intimacy, why should you suffer the loss of your family when all you really want is that intimacy which can be found elsewhere? You may even still love your wife despite her lack of interest. This comes about as close to being a justifiable reason as anything.
My main concern is, can you obtain the intimacy with someone else without resorting to lying to them or misleading them as to your intentions or their expectations? And the only other question I have is, would it be possible to get your wife's okay to seek initimacy elsewhere, while preserving the family? | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/10/2009 2:46:57 PM | | Re munkeemaan...and your question about what you're doing and is it cheating. I've written throughout this thread that if one withholds intimacy in the relationship---you have rewritten the terms of the marriage contract making it untenable for the other. When terms change in that respect and one is denied there should be a discreet arrangement between the spouses that allow for the one denied to find respite elsewhere. I personally feel that it is best to be upfront about this with the spouse, especially if deciding to continue to be in the marriage whether that be for the benefit of children, marital assets, or to keep up a facade. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/10/2009 3:41:14 PM | 1) wife denies husband sex for whatever reason, tells husband she will never again touch him
2)husband promises never to "bother" her for sex or affection anymore
3)they decide to stay together for maximum exposure to kids plus financial reasons
4)husband finds lover.....both wife and lover know about each other
This was pretty customary in Europe for centuries.
I think it is a lousy arrangement for all concerned, but I can't see it as cheating.
Everybody has what they want.
But I could not do it. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/11/2009 12:48:18 PM |
For Rum Only said to Munkeemaan, you bring up a consideration that I hadn't thought of much before. That is, you can't recreate the family life, the daily participation in your children's lives, and the stability that provides them if you break up the relationship. If your spouse denies intimacy, why should you suffer the loss of your family when all you really want is that intimacy which can be found elsewhere? You may even still love your wife despite her lack of interest. This comes about as close to being a justifiable reason as anything.
My main concern is, can you obtain the intimacy with someone else without resorting to lying to them or misleading them as to your intentions or their expectations?
I don't lie to my friend; It suits us both at the moment. We are both free to continue pursuing what we would like in the longer term. If either of us finds that, then from then on ours would become just be a platonic freindship.
And the only other question I have is, would it be possible to get your wife's okay to seek initimacy elsewhere, while preserving the family?
Ah, now there's the rub. I know that as with For Rum Only's scenario, the bestt hing is for my marriage to remain intact, I'm not sure if when confronted my husband would react in a logical way. I have seen him in his stubbornness do things diametrically opposed to what would be in his best interest, and he has admitted that to me.
Certainly, there is the possibility that try as I might, he will eventually we will have the talk where he'll ask me if I am cheating, and then, well, I'll ask him to think about if he really would want to know.
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