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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/11/2009 1:23:15 PM | justification in cheating? I do not believe there is one good reason that can be acceptable. Trust and honesty in a relationship is very important. If you find another person that turns your lights on - then that person should be honest with their other half and be willing to take what life dishes out to them - with the lost of that relationship. I am single, but I know the fastest way to get a "Goodbye" from me is cheat on me. I would not want a relationship that is not based on trust. My motto " Be honest with me and I will always be honest with you : Break that honesty with me and you will see my backside within a split second. That is my thought on this subject. LOL | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/11/2009 3:04:15 PM | | People hate change , and they also want there cake and eat it to they want to have a steady partner that comfterable with and, a wild one on the side that there no pessure with. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/11/2009 6:03:05 PM | wow...
a word comes to mind.
Entitlement.
I'm guessing since the way you wrote this that this is a hypothetical.
man thinks he is entitled to keep his stuff raise his kids under one roof and get
mad PU#$y on the side. What an example to set for the kids! There should be an award for parenting of that caliber.
Man needs to man up step up and try to fix his marriage (granted it takes to to fix or destroy) or he needs cut his wife loose bite the bullet and fund her and the raising of his children not to mention be there physically for them.
Man needs to let his wife get on with her life.
It's a shame that men or women for that matter don't care as much for their children or each other as they do about their possessions.
I understand the need for intimacy and if there is an issue then may be counsuling is in order and if that route has been taken then may be the people are just two different people than when they met.
Time to make sure the kids are well taken care of divvy up the goods and get on with life.
IN THAT ORDER!! | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/12/2009 11:36:40 AM |
Man has worked very hard for many years, nice house, kids, material possessions, etc, but has no intimacy at home. Chooses to stay in the marriage as he knows the alimony will crush him, she stays home, raises kids, and he will lose half of everything he has worked so hard for. So he seeks intimacy outside the marriage..
stays home, raises kids and sacrifices career and earning power.... also will lose half of everything she worked for.
He continues to enjoy his income, parting with only a portion of it. She starts over, usually with child care responsibilities restricting her ability to start over. ALL of her income goes toward child support. (exceptions to the rule will soon abound here, I'm sure, but haven't seen it in my experience)
OT: maybe cheating comes down to if you believe that you're entitled to the physical aspect of sex no matter what or if you believe that sex is a shared, intimate part of life with your chosen partner.
The argument that 'he/she did me wrong so I get to do him/her wrong in return' sounds childish to me. Since when do two wrongs make anything right?
Although it may be tempting to use adultery as some kind of revenge, it only reflects your own character. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/12/2009 12:59:03 PM | | All that means is that they married the wrong person . | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/12/2009 9:29:20 PM | Past some of our moralizing there seems some consistency in comments. Pardon me for trying to provide an extended Reader's Digest version:
Not everyone was meant to pair bond. They're alarming to the rest of us but likely that's just genes. The race wasn't built from blocks that all look and act alike, some people are completely supportive family members through some sort of convoluted uncles taking care of daughter of guy who dated sister for a week but they're all getting on fine. Its not for the rest of us.
Amongst the norms pairs fall out of the mold. Some anthroapologosists suggest relationships are meant to last 3-4 years then change.We have to work at it from then on. Even for those that have made a commitment to be intimate and persue a future with one person wrenches can show up in the muck. People get hurt, lose interest for medical reasons. They move on mentally and can't be brought back through love or money. Still to differ with others it seems necessary to be true to your main squeeze and let them know if you're considering wandering. Even if they've suggested in detail how they'll spend your life insurance once they get the gumption to off you in a completely deniable accident -- that might all be talk, or they could crawl out of the wheelchair, or start taking those hormone replacement drugs,-- maybe just naturally regain interest. Saying what's up in some form frees them to persue their life.
This all based on sort of a crime-less village analogie though. In real life there are agendas and millions of dollars at stake in minor assignations. The govenment is completely into taking everything they can to supplimant income of an ex for ,.. well forever. And people can make wild changes - drag urchins off continent or destroy all the family assets. When the agenda has you in a one bedroom suite in the worst area of town it might be wise to consider discretion over valour.
However the complete chicken route - to deny affection.. well that's wrong too. If you truely like someone, and you're not in a real relationship its a travesty not to demonstrate commitment. Its unfair to everyone, and leads to tragedy. The new squeeze deserves to know where they stand. Denying is like reserving a seat on a plane for your invisible Gorilla friend, "no they'll be right back - just shaving in the washroom" | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/12/2009 11:51:45 PM | | not justifying, but usual reasons for EITHER to cheat (dont plug it as a man's only problem... just as many women cheat)... is usually because something hasnt been taken care of or there is a problem with the relationship ... when these signs come, it is time to take stock in it and do something about it. take time and patience and commitment from both sides, even though technically they are already "committed" to this as their marriage represents. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/13/2009 1:45:09 AM | | OK. I think there is NO justification for cheating. If you aren't happy get out of the relationship. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/18/2009 11:19:44 AM |
They always, always, always get caught
No, they don't always get caught. Some get caught, some never are caught and there is history that documents these secret affairs of some who are now deceased and the information was revealed. There are also so those who do not care whether or not they are caught.
Best,
ACP | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/18/2009 11:34:40 AM | People cheat because they have an inability to face their fears.
Wow! Just Wow! This assertion is supported by what evidence?
The percentage of people that actually were strong enough to use therapy to it's conclusion is minuscule.
Another assertion provided with no evidence to support it.
People cheat because they are weak.
Again, wow! This assertion is supported by what evidence?
what people hear is "I tried." Then ask what that means. "Oh, therapy didn't work." is a common reply.
They also could be clear and honest when that statement is made. Therapy isn't a guaranteed cure. Sometimes things are not fixable. Sometimes, people should not have been together from the beginning and yet outside pressures influenced their choice to marry or remain married when they knew they should have run.
People have to stay in therapy to face their fears, show there deepest level of vulnerability, really work together - that's hard stuff. People fail therapy, not the other way around.
I'm curious, was there a core component of 60 or more hours of psychotherapy training and education required at the culinary school as a part of your training to be a baker?
This is truly amazing insight from a baker. I cannot wait for the book to come out, what will it be called, " A Baker's Dozen Ways to Prevent Infidelity and Save Your Marriage" (instantly copyrighted by ACP AKA licensed relationship professional). Oops, can't use that title, but I might. LOL.
It's best to refrain from making sweeping assertions and generalizations about why human beings behave and stick to making the donuts.
Regards,
ACP | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/18/2009 11:49:52 AM | There is no justification! only a lack of communication, compromise and honesty! I see absolutly NO reason to cheat if you love someone.
That blade cuts all ways. Is it cheating when any agreement of the the marital contract is violated be it verbally (vows) or written such as the traditional Jewish wedding contract/covenant (kettubah)?
If not, why not?
In any other contractual agreement, if one item of the contract is altered or broken without mutual consent, the entire contract becomes void.
Cheating, a better term would be contract breaking, or in ye olde English form of what we have **stardized into adultery, "Advowtry" = Vow Breaking, is the violation of any component of the mutually agreed upon marriage contract.
Thus, when that occurs, it really isn't cheating anymore since the contract has been voided by the breaking of any one of the mutually agreed upon elements contained within that contract.
Personally, I encourage folks in pre-marital counseling as well as those for whom I serve as a celebrant official to have their marital contract written and that they use them as their official public vows. This way their expectations are clear and it is an agreement that removes any assumptions by either person. At the conclusion there are four copies. One for each of them, one that they file with the county recorder, and one that I keep. Human nature being what it is, sometimes the contract "gets lost".
If there needs to be a change or a renegotiation of that contract, there is language contained within the vow that specifies how it is to occur, how it gets added, and the process by which it is recorded so that there is no confusion and clearly indicates that both individuals were involved in and have agreed to the changes.
It's tough to refute that the contract wasn't broken when things go to court and someone is accused of "cheating" and yet many times, the contractual agreement reveals that there was no longer a contract as the other person had already violated one or more of the agreed upon components.
I like it, my client's like it, and so far judges and lawyers have liked it. 
Best,
ACP | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/18/2009 12:22:04 PM |
In any other contractual agreement, if one item of the contract is altered or broken without mutual consent, the entire contract becomes void.
Cheating, a better term would be contract breaking, or in ye olde English form of what we have **stardized into adultery, "Advowtry" = Vow Breaking, is the violation of any component of the mutually agreed upon marriage contract.
Thus, when that occurs, it really isn't cheating anymore since the contract has been voided by the breaking of any one of the mutually agreed upon elements contained within that contract.
.....It's tough to refute that the contract wasn't broken when things go to court and someone is accused of "cheating" and yet many times, the contractual agreement reveals that there was no longer a contract as the other person had already violated one or more of the agreed upon components.
^^^ACP...I agree as this tends to mirror my own thinking on this subject and posts to the same throughout this thread. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/18/2009 2:37:07 PM | In any other contractual agreement, if one item of the contract is altered or broken without mutual consent, the entire contract becomes void.
So why hang around long enough to cheat? You have a contract with your ISP, for example, they don't hold up their end of the bargain as expected.... do you try to find out what's wrong and why? do you end your contract peacefully and sign up with someone else? do you go down to their office and kick in the windows to torch the place?
If I'm in a relationship and my partner is not holding up their end, I like to think I'd be adult enough to try to fix it or bail out completely.
Bringing in a third person will never help. Whether you're trying to hide it or not, it is utterly disrespectful of the cheatee, the third wheel and ultimately yourself. How can you look at yourself in the mirror? Oh yeah... blame your partner for breaking the contract first. Sounds juvenile to me. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/18/2009 3:02:24 PM | I haven't read all the replies here so I'll respond to the original post.
People justify many things they do in order to convince themselves that
what they do or want to do is acceptable in their mind and when others "call" them
on it they attempt to justify it to them also.
Cheating on someone is never justifiable in my mind.
And their excuses are only a way to make themselves feel better about what they've
done or are doing. It took a while for his marriage to lose it's intimacy and instead of
going down the street of Cheat, he could have tried to figure out, with help where it
got off track. And if he didn't want to fix what was broken then leave ....that's the hard
thing, isn't it? It's easier for him to cheat. *sighs*
The words, "keep thee only unto him/her" come to mind.
And if you can't do that then ....get out. Just my opinion. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/19/2009 5:43:22 AM |
In any other contractual agreement, if one item of the contract is altered or broken without mutual consent, the entire contract becomes void.
So why hang around long enough to cheat?
^^^I agree. But this question needs to be asked to the person who violated the terms of the contract....the person who is withholding intimacy and sex <<<<
The cheating is a way of the other person who has been shut out to deal with the violation of the terms of the marriage....(no intimacy/sex) and looking for it elsewhere.
It's a legitimate question not only for the cheater...but also for the other person in the marriage who changed the terms by withholding.
As I've indicated on my posts throughout. I've never cheated...but I've been cheated on...and feel that I was just as culpable as my partner who cheated. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/19/2009 11:53:18 AM | to the OP:
justification is a form of denial, and is stated so the person who is engaging in the knowingly un-acceptable behavior can continue to maintain their 'good' self image. If they did not justify their actions, they would have to take responsibility for their 'bad' behavior... this applies to cheating, drugs, over eating... stealling you name it...
it's also a sign of immaturity. No-one is 'trapped' into a situation. They should be mature enough to deal directly with their issues, instead of emotionally detaching to save their self image...
Actually, it's sad and you should pity them...
It is way more healthy, mature and productive to admit to your bad behavior, accept responsibility for your actions - and empathise with the people you hurt in the process.... that is being an ADULT.
Some people think being adult is doing whatever they wish, being an adult is taking responsibility for your actions (no matter what they are). If you can "see the logic" and "almost agree with the justification" you are simply enabling the behavior (i.e. the wife of an abuser)....
*jumps down off the soap box*.... | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/19/2009 1:49:49 PM |
It's a legitimate question not only for the cheater...but also for the other person in the marriage who changed the terms by withholding.
sure it is, but the time to ask the question of the 'withholding' partner is BEFORE the cheating occurs. Accepting bad behaviour from one's partner and then blaming them for ones' own bad behaviour is childish. We're not children in the back seat of the station wagon for crying out loud.
And if you're going to blame the 'withholder' for your 'cheating' you'd better go back a little further to see if your own actions or lack thereof weren't the cause of said 'withholding'. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/19/2009 3:46:54 PM |
It's a legitimate question not only for the cheater...but also for the other person in the marriage who changed the terms by withholding. sure it is, but the time to ask the question of the 'withholding' partner is BEFORE the cheating occurs.
And if you're going to blame the 'with holder' for your 'cheating' you'd better go back a little further to see if your own actions or lack thereof weren't the cause of said 'withholding'.
^^^And the time for the with holder to arbitrarily STOP the intimacy and sex is BEFORE doing that.
My point of view on this thread is that it's easy to lambaste the cheater. The cheater in most cases wasn't the only party complicit in the state of affairs that finds a marriage in this type of mess. Many of the wives and husbands that continue to rail against their cheating spouses need to look closely at what they were doing or not doing in this---they have 50% of the responsibility.
And yes...the trail can go right back to see how both of the partner at some point stopped doing what they each needed to do for each other. In the case of cheaters who have partners who have stopped providing intimacy at home for whatever the reason <<those people with holding need to be held responsible too. They needed to have asked for or articulated what they needed from their partner..before arbitrarily turning off the taps. And in turning off the taps...what was it a power move? What did they think was going to happen? They have a burden of responsibility to look at fixing what's broken as does the other.
By the time cheating is a part of the marriage it's merely a symptom of a break created some time back...a break that usually has the other partner quietly invalidating their agreement. The cheater is an easy target in this mess---not saying defensible...but an easy target nonetheless. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/19/2009 4:13:48 PM | | I disagree. I've never cheated on a man or been cheated on either. I'm a very faithful person to a man. I don't think anybody should ever cheat. I think you should end a relationship before you begin another one, but that is just how I feel. Everyone is different and I try not to judge others. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/19/2009 4:44:00 PM | | No offense, but I'd rather have him poor and fully in love with me than cheating on somebody with me. I'm an all or nothing kind of person and if he can't be mine, I don't want him. He's hers until one of them's dead or the ink on the divorce decree is dry. For a man (or woman) to give excuses about finances, kids, etc says "I don't think you're worth it" or "I'm to chicken to deal with the consequences of my actions". Either way, I don't want that person... Just my two cents... | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/20/2009 9:36:43 AM | So why hang around long enough to cheat?
It seems you miss the point. There is no cheating. The agreement is void and therefore, there is no blame to be assigned for cheating as "cheating" did not occur.
I realize that for some folks, it's tough to get their head around the idea that sexual fidelity is only one component of most marriage vows. In some, sexual fidelity doesn't exist, and that's entirely different topic. Fidelity in a marriage is inclusive of all of that was agreed upon. None of them are assigned any more weight than another. When one is broken they are all broken.
It's up to the individuals involved how they wish to continue or discontinue, if they continue to go forward in their relationship, it is functioning without an enforceable contract. If it is renegotiated, and I personally recommend an annual review of the status of the relationship and a discussion of any changes that might need to be considered and perhaps mutually agree to change those or amend.
At the same time, I don't advocate being dishonest and I don't necessarily feel that it is necessary to be overt beyond the initial reminder that agreements were made and are to be honored or none of them are binding any longer. It seems at that point, the individual who is breaking or considering breaking one of the several components of the agreement has been put on notice. They have the choice to honor the contract and fulfill their obligations to the other, they also have the obligation to terminate the legal status of the contract with a divorce, or to agree that the party is released from his/her obligations and can do as they please and they continue to remain under the legal protections and benefits of the state.
Why is the person who has not broken the contract held to a higher standard than they one who has done so? Why must they (seek an end to the relationship through divorce if they are content to stay in that relationship and seek to satisfy their needs elsewhere?
Why is it "okay" and "acceptable" for one person to violate the contract in multiple ways and yet when that occurs, the evil villain is the person who seeks to have those areas satisfied outside of that relationship in another relationship?
Again, it becomes more clear some couples and other choosing to establish their legal status under limited liability companies rather than marriage under family law.
Best,
ACP | |
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p~s
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Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 272 | |
| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/20/2009 10:01:48 AM | It's an easy excuse to say there is no intimacy any more and so it is sought after outside of the home, but tell me, why is there no intimacy anymore? What has happened for that intimacy to have failed, did one person decide to move on emotionally maybe? Maybe him? How is it the woman's fault if this man is screwing around on her behind her back because of his perceived lack of intimacy at home? Especially when most people [I know of anyways] who cheat, when asked, have never done anything to try and improve the relationship they have with their partner at home first. Sometimes that lack of intimacy is because of the womanizing that the husband was always prone to, the wife has withdrawn from him.
People who cheat are great at deception, they deceive both themselves and the gullible 'other' woman with excuses.
Let me ask you this OP, is it justifiable do you think to emotionally abuse another? That's what unfaithfulness is, abuse of another's trust. It is the greatest betrayal in any intimate relationship. Whether or not the spouse ever does find out, just imagine how broken they will be if they do, is that fair to do to another for ANY reason? Let alone money...this guy is just plain selfish and ego driven. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/20/2009 10:13:14 AM | | As I have not been married, I cannot discuss how I felt when my ex husband cheated on me, etc. I can merely try to imagine how I might feel, etc, if it were to occur. Some people accept that a spouse will cheat and marriage has many other perks to them besides monogamy, so they remain married to the person who is having sex outside of the marriage. If I was to get married and decide that I did not care to have sex with my husband anymore due to lack of interest does that mean he has reason to cheat? What if he becomes ill and no longer could have sex? Is that a green light for me to cheat? I hopefully am the kind of woman who would talk to my husband if we felt we were having marital problems that were affecting our sex life, or if I wanted to cheat, would not cheat when I was married. However, I do believe that many people are capable of loving more than one person at the same time, some people are not meant to be monogamous, and some people are happiest when they are in open marriages. I am sure we have all known couples where one of the persons has become ill, etc. and the spouse is a great caregiver, still loves the other person, but has found a satisfying sexual relationship with another person. | |
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p~s
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Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 274 | |
| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/20/2009 10:39:56 AM | I can't believe this stupid unfeeling lawyer crap.
What happened to doing what is right simply for the sake that it is the right thing to do? | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/20/2009 10:58:28 AM | | That went out the window along with many other things years ago it seems. We seem to be living in an instant gratification, all about what makes me look and feel good, throw it away if something that looks better comes along society. | |
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