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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/30/2009 8:30:29 PM | AND I STILL stand by my Opinion. We promise to love, honor and cherish.( traditional Christian marriage) and in some cases obey..if the words are still there...however when I am in the heat of a fight with my husband...I am not feeling love, or honor, etc......I am feeling hurt and angry. Does that mean because I failed at that at that time, my contract with him is broken and all other aspects void??????????? ( still between the two of us....not bringing in a third party)
Give me a break. Infidelity is a big NO NO...........It is for selfish people that put their needs and wants above all else. You have your opinion and I have mine. What you choose to believe is your business. In the context of most relationships that are indeed supposed to be monagamous by their definition ( not the open kind or like)....but the traditional type...........a cheater is a cheater. WHY would they be called cheaters........Why not just say they didn't fulfill the contract. In that senario.........hell leaving the toliet seat up would be grounds for dismissal!!!!!!!!
AND another question while we are on this subject........not just for you, but all that advocate a reason for cheating. What about the other party? What about the women and men that are lied to, told that they are single, separated, or just not happy at home. What do they tell these people that believe them and then find out it is a fling, a cheap F*ck...........whatever the occasion for the lies and deception????
I know from reading the forums and checking some profiles that it is all to common for a man or woman to admit to being married, but looking for " on the side".
Then there are the ones that don't tell up front they are married, they claim to be single, etc. I ran into one of those not long after I started dating again as a widow. Oh, he was good at the lies, etc. The fact that I was scared and vulnerable at that time gave him all the reason in the world to zero in on me. It didn't get that far, but I had talked to him on the internet and phone for three months before the meet up. I was emotionally invoved.I had the hardest time separating who he portrayed himself as and who he was. It was a merry-go-round of emotions.......
I am much more alert and skeptical of anyone I even talk to now, but then I knew only about Pac Man and eBay.
I know I am not the only one out there taken for a ride like that. WHat justifies the lies???
NOTHING
To me it is TOTALLY DISGUSTING ( but hey that is my OPINION).
Sex is just too personal a thing to be shared with someone for the sake of a few minutes pleasure and I like my juices pure.....not mixed with the leftovers of an affair.
Not to mention the STD's, etc. Cheating of any kind is an emotional rollercoster for those put on it against their will or knowledge.
Monagamous or otherwise, the betrayal is undescribable to those caught up in it. WHAT justifies doing that to another human being??
THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO CHEAT................NEVER!!
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/30/2009 9:35:53 PM |
I'll say something very provocative now that I'm sure will be used against me:
According to your logic the Jews in Nazi Germany were no victims. The common denominator was them.
(I just hope you have enough common sense to deny that.)
My point is that repetition of injustice does not make the victims less so.
Well, I am not sure if Godwin's Law is applicable here, but let me just say that this thread has "jumped the shark" when people start comparing cheating to what was perpetrated by A.H. I am fairly certain the Jews did not willingly enter into an equal, loving, mutually beneficial relationship with the Nazis. Your point is irrelevant.
Perhaps a more useful analogy would be that of an abused spouse. If a woman or man were abused by spouse number one because he or she simply didn't see the signs of abuse before the relationship ( as you said you cannot always tell who the cheaters are) that is not his or her fault. If the next TEN people with whom the abuse victim enters relationships are ALL abusers, then damn right, the VICTIM is doing something very, very wrong. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/30/2009 9:48:14 PM | Remember, 99 out of 100 times you hear that story, there is a wife at home that has no idea her husband is out telling other women this, and she believes her marriage is doing fine.
The 1 time out of 100 that the story is true, it is his choice to bear the burden of staying, and breaking his promise to this woman by cheating is unacceptable. He chooses to stay, he needs to stay within the boundaries of the marriage vows he took. Otherwise, he should leave, divorce and move on with his life. Half and half just hurts everyone- you, him, and his family.
KDKUTIE | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/30/2009 10:31:45 PM | "If the next TEN people with whom the abuse victim enters relationships are ALL abusers, then damn right, the VICTIM is doing something very, very wrong."
The discussion had shifted to victims ceasing to be victims just because of repetition, but I accept your analogy with abusers. It did not say ten out of the next ten, it originally said two or three times and I upped it to ten, never saying 'all' or 'consecutive'. It could be 10 out of 20 or 30 or 50 or 100. Other relationships could have not turned out for other reasons which takes care of the 'next ten' or 'ALL' argument. What remains is the question whether repetition makes you less of a victim.
I laid out the only two reasons I can think of how your claim could have merit. Either I deliberately choose them or I am an easy but unaware target. All I have heard so far is about likelihoods (like your 'ALL' or 10 out of 10 argument) or the generality that I am the common denominator. Neither one would help an iota to change the victim role.
Earlier I brought up rape victims as an abuse victim although it is not a relationship issue. The reason was that I have read about behavior that can make you a victim, my reason number two. A timid behavior attracts a rapist as it is about power, not sex. Refer to experts or search web sites for more detail if you wish. My point is a change in behavior could make you less of a victim. If you can tell me what I need to change, I can buy into your theory. But as long as it is just a correlation I cannot.
Here's another thought: Cheaters can be victims just the same (based on likelihoods), but they don't care as they are out doing the same. Perhaps your definition of a victim is whether getting cheated on gets to you... Perhaps I need to get a thicker skin and stop dreaming. Well, I rather remain single than buy into any of that conscience-relieving, cheating-justifying BS that turns the victim into the guilty party and the cheater into a normal person. They are still scum to me, no matter how many people including themselves they can convince.
So I still ask of you: Show me how to spot a cheater OR show me which trait makes me a victim. That is what it takes to convince me that I'm NOT a victim. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/31/2009 2:19:07 AM |
Heck, according to ArabianAngel people change and it is somehow OK to cheat, if they feel too guilty to leave (I probably got that wrong, but I cannot understand justifications for cheating anyway).
Yes, Wolftxus you did get it wrong, but I'm really not going to sit and explain what I meant. Your posts are evident at how much you are fighting in fear of getting rid of the 'victim tag'...get fvken rid of it!...My post was merely for you to understand why people cheat, understanding why such thing happens will allow you to once and for all get over this anger and hurt that you've been carrying around like a black cloud over your head...YOU will keep attracting people women that cheat because victims attract victimisers, simple... you will unconciously attract these women because you want to reinact what you had, in hope that this time you will be able to fight it, it doesn't work that way... | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/31/2009 2:47:24 AM | We can all find ways to justify anything in our own minds, the worst kinds of behaviour. Some people are quick to judge other's bad behaviour but refuse to face up to their own - hypocrisy is the worst thing about sex/cheating.
I cheated once because my boyfriend and I weren't compatible in the bedroom. It wasn't something we ever managed to resolve - every penny don't fit the slot, so to speak. Him too big, me too small. You could argue it both ways. Both of us managed sex with other people though. He had already told me it was important (penetration) and so had said he'd have to dump me if we couldn't resolve it. It put a lot of pressure on the relationship and it was something beyond my control.
Add into the mix his doubts, which I sensed, about me moving to Yorkshire to be with him - once it was already arranged. Desperation (I hadn't wanted to accept that he wasn't Mr Right after all, or give up on the dream after all the imput into getting this far) and naivety meant I continued anyway. It didn't last of course... he later threw back at me that he wanted children now (probably), wherease before he'd said it didn't matter that I didn't want kids - and I'd got with him on that understanding.
So... I slept with a woman. I knew my boyfriend would hurt me, he already was hurting me. I knew I'd lose him, but went ahead with the move anyway. But because I knew it was doomed, deep down, I met up with a woman before I moved to be with him and let her pleasure me. I justified the cheating because I figured as he was going to dump me over sex I may as well get one-up, even though he didn't find out about it until much later, after we split up.
There is also the definition of 'cheating'. There's having sex with someone behind your partner's back, and then there's the obtaining sex under false pretenses - which to me is a form of cheating. If you have to lie and deceive to obtain sex then it's an act of fraud. The only difference is people who do this get away with it, because the partner consented - believing it was something it wasn't (i.e. "I love you" is the common con or lie).
I felt like all my ex boyfriends (and the one male fcuk buddy I had, when I was very ill) had cheated. One because he really wanted his ex wife back, and she was the one in his heart. He didn't sleep with her while with me - because she didn't want him. But it was 'her' name he called out one night, turning over in his sleep, as he put his arm around me. Her who filled his thoughts. And her photos he had around the house.
The others obtained sex by fraud:
Boyfriend 1) pretended he loved me, had sex with me, then told me he wanted my friends - to get me to dump him, and walk away.
Boyfriend 2) did sex stuff with me, told me everything was fine after a big row, then dumped me the next time I saw him.
Boyfriend 3) pretended he wanted me back, and still loved me - but was using me until he could get up the nerve to get his ex missus back 
There was a casual encounter when 17-18, which did no real emotional damage. He was using me but I also used him, to feel 'normal' like the other teens.
The fcuk buddy when I was very ill.... now that was something else! But yep - more fraud, more abuse. 
The only serious relationship I've had where I 'didn't' feel they cheated was with a woman. When things were rocky and the relationship was coming to an end she refused to have sex with me - and said "Things aren't right between us - I'm not going to have sex and pretend things are fine. I know your ex boyfriend's used you then dumped you - I have more respect for you than that". And when we split I said I would like to remain friends with this woman; she was the only serious partner who had ever shown me any respect.  | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/31/2009 3:09:20 AM | "because victims attract victimisers"
So your advice is not to be a victim the first time around? Or to acknowledge some fault and not be a victim? Whatever... I think I am done with this thread. Given enough time it'll turn into some reasoning that I should thank the cheater...
One good thing came out of this thread though. On my next first date I can bring up this question and eliminate potential partners who think like you do. Of course, there'll be some victims who would never cheat but agree with your reasoning, but if it happens to them more than once it must be their fault. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/31/2009 3:37:35 AM | To answer the above argument, regarding people 'wanting' to be victims, and people who've been rape victims getting stuck in a repetition cycle...
As someone who has been sexually abused in childhood (then in every relationship with a man since) I would say that women - and men - who've been subjected to sexual abuse from a young age carry that with them into puberty, then adulthood.
For me personally my earliest memories are of an older boy pestering me for sexual favours, when I was 5-6 years old. Promising me a party, sweets and crisps etc. I don't recall anything happening, but I 'do' remember thinking he had been lying about the party.
At the age of 10 I was on a picnic with my 2 younger brothers, aged 8 and 6, and one of their friends. A man befriended us, led us further into the woods. I confided in this man about being bullied on a canoeing trip at Hawes End, and the man had laughed and called me a "Haw". Being 10 years old, back then (27 years ago) I didn't understand, or know what a 'whore' was.
By the time I realised this man was dodgy it was too late... I said we should head back home, this guy jumped on me climbing over a stile in a field. He pulled a knife out and the other younger children ran away. The man then sexually assaulted me, bit me 'down there' and tried to rape me. Eventually he let me go and ran away over the fields. He had said "Don't worry - if you keep still I won't hurt you".
Add to that a father who rejected me affection-wise (which I felt was my fault because I was a dirty girl now), then bullied me and increasingly seemed to grow to hate me.... I ended up choosing men who damaged, used and abused me. My vulnerability and lack of self-worth *because* of all the abuse meant men who wanted to use for sex spotted the easy target. And when these men told me the things I longed to hear... that I was beautiful to them, that they loved me etc... I wanted that so badly. Hook, line and sinker...
After a few relationships with men which left me feeling I had been sexually abused again I turned into a man-hater, and very bitter and twisted.
Could I have avoided that? I didn't even see what was happening... didn't know how to switch off that 'I'm a whore - use me and abuse me" which seemed to have shone out of me since childhood. It freaked me out, hurt me, destroyed me. But I had no idea how to stop sending out those signals. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/31/2009 3:54:18 AM | This is my very first post so bare with me. I thought this was an interesting post to give my input on as I have been both a victim of a cheating partner and I have also been the cheat. When one of my ex's cheated on me it broke my heart. Nothing he could say or do would "Justify" it. . .until I experienced the want to cheat myself. I was with someone who I loved very much (and people can say what they want,but I personally dont believe that if you are able to cheat,you are NOT in love wit your partner). I dont think I can be judged on this because this is my personal belief and we are all entitled to these. I was very much in love with him for so many reasons,however we were having some problems at this time, then I met someone at work. He filled in the gaps that were missing in my curent relationship and I found myself falling for him. I also believe that its possible to love more than one person at the same time. Anyway,my partner found out about my affair and he ended our relationship,which then made me realise just what I had lost,and how much I really did love him and WANTED to make it work. So I ended my affair and fought for the man I truely wanted. I won him back and we spent the next 4 years together and things were great. Unfortunately things ran its course and we broke up amicably. I just wanted to say that cheating on someone does not necessarily mean that you dont love them. Sometimes we get confused by what we want,and we forget the things we should remember and remember the things we should forget. I dont know about justifying cheating,but I dont think it makes you a bad person and I do think that sometimes there are valid and understanding reasons behind it. Some people are with people who find it hard to show them the affection they really need. . .so they seek it elsewhere,even though i every other way they want to be with their partners. Sorry if I have offended anyone with my opinion.
L x | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/31/2009 5:32:08 AM | | You can use all the excuses in the book and its still not right. i just don't get it why some people stay in a relationship when their not happy at all to begin with. If your not happy with your marriage then move on. As far as the kids im sure they can work out something. If he's worried about going to court and losing some of his hard earned money and property so be it. you gotta think about the future. He can be out there free and date whoever he likes and even sleep around until he gets aids or something worse.there is no need to stick around.here is my take on cheaters. A cheater is someone who doesn't have the heart to come clean. Someone who's using others for their own interest. Some guys cheat so they can switch it up. Every night different partner. Some ladies cheat because their man can't get the job done...i don't blame them..lol. I got nothing against the man but cheating is cheating at the end of the day....peace. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/31/2009 6:27:15 AM | Lucylia,
I appreciate your honesty. These are the examples where even cheating is not justifiable, and never will be, we can see the reasoning behind it and maybe understand and not just criticize.
Sometimes cheating helps rebuild a cracked relationship. Of course there is pain in many people involved, but we all know what we get into before going forward with an affair.
Good luck to you in your future relationships and hopefully you will be lucky to find a free man that cares for you ( or maybe you already have one).! | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/31/2009 6:43:33 AM | Im truly amazed at some of you people who believes cheating sometimes helps a relationship?Good Lord ..... and you wonder why Swamp Land in Florida is worth more than property in Beverley hills.
Cheating is cheating, were not talking about open relationships im talking about two people committed to each other and the other person steps out ( for whatever reason) and cheats, which the last time I check its called betrayal, broken vows,broke the trust blah blah blah.
What type of idiot would sit and forgive and take back a cheater? yeah yeah some of you says, oh its a mistake? mistake my ass , a mistake is giving someone cream for their coffee instead of milk. A mistake is putting a label on Apple pie when its a blue berry pie.
Its black and white, if you have to sneak around or better yet your spouse doesnt know or gave their blessing its CHEATING.
Whether the person feels guilty or not isnt paramount the fact is you cheated, you chose to do it , you made a choice... end of story. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/31/2009 8:01:12 AM |
Im truly amazed at some of you people who believes cheating sometimes helps a relationship
Some people who've been in relationships where cheating has happened have worked through that, and felt their relationship has gotten better post-adultery. I'd agree that they're in the minority, but why would you insist they are wrong? | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/31/2009 2:36:48 PM |
So your advice is not to be a victim the first time around? Or to acknowledge some fault and not be a victim? Whatever... I think I am done with this thread. Given enough time it'll turn into some reasoning that I should thank the cheater...
One good thing came out of this thread though. On my next first date I can bring up this question and eliminate potential partners who think like you do. Of course, there'll be some victims who would never cheat but agree with your reasoning, but if it happens to them more than once it must be their fault.
Wolftxus...You asked me a question and I replied. I expected you not to like my answer, just like a smoker wouldn't like hearing the health facts. There is nothing wrong/right about being a victim, it's how long you wish to carry this tag around that makes it so.
As for victims attracting victimisers and vice versa, it happens simply because of this reason; Victim always feel a inner rage wanting to come out, a rage so strong that your mind soothes it by giving you the very thing you despise, hoping that this time round you may overcome it, so your filters will pick women with the same potential for cheating...So the longer you carry this tag the longer you will crave to empower someone else, you end up becoming a victim again, or a victimiser yourself...I'm sorry if you don't like hearing this Wolftxus, just like I don't like hearing how bad smoking is for me. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/31/2009 3:02:45 PM | | ^^^^^^^^^^^Caliph means DOG in arabic, so yeah I would! :) | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/31/2009 5:23:00 PM |
My point is a change in behavior could make you less of a victim. If you can tell me what I need to change, I can buy into your theory.
What you need to change? See below. I referred to it before.
And like rape, there are repercussions for your life. You distrust honest people. Your sex life has a different priority. You hesitate to commit to a relationship. A cheater does more damage than just terminate a relationship, steal some money and leave a VD behind (or whatever happens around that time). There is a time-released damage that stays with the victim for the next relationship, possibly many more.
You said it yourself: You distrust honest people. In so doing, you are eliminating a LOT of high caliber women--or, equally likely, causing them to eliminate you. I have never cheated on anyone in my life, and I would find your attitude a major turn off. I have felt the pain of being cheated on. I keep it in perspective. All guys are not like him, are they? Why should I approach a new partner with an attitude of mistrust? I suspect that would get me nowhere. If you eliminate a lot of high caliber women, you are bound to end up with a low end model--one with whom you will encounter undesirable behavior. Perhaps even cheating. Or, as you say, you could just stay single.
Well, I rather remain single than buy into any of that conscience-relieving, cheating-justifying BS that turns the victim into the guilty party and the cheater into a normal person. They are still scum to me, no matter how many people including themselves they can convince.
Cheating is wrong, flat out wrong. However, there are things a spouse can do that are equally bad in my opinion. If my husband were to beat me, I would see that as much worse than cheating, but it would not make me tempted to cheat. Even if it did, it would not make my husband less of a victim of cheating. I bet a lot of people wouldn't feel much sympathy for him, though.
Sometimes the person who is cheated on simply sees nothing BUT the cheating, as if that act alone absolves him or her of any wrong doing for the entire duration of the relationship. That is also a turn off. If I were to date someone I was really interested in, and I asked him what went wrong in his previous LTR and he said "She cheated", as in "She cheated. End of story," that would concern me. When relationships end, mature adults see what the other person did, but should also be sure to examine their own role in the relationship. Perfect people do not interest me.
To take the rape analogy further, let's say a woman is a victim of rape, and she is left with an STD. While it sucks that she was raped, she still needs to understand and accept that she needs to be the one who is proactive about seeking out treatment for the STD. She cannot just throw up her hands and say "But it is not my fault I have this STD....I was raped." She needs to treat the disease, and to add insult to injury, she may have to pay for the treatment out of her own pocket. Sucks, right? But if she chooses to live with the STD, she isn't really healthy, is she? Not really relationship material. Sometimes victims have to take responsibility for healing themselves. Life is not fair. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/31/2009 5:26:20 PM | I thought that Caliph (Kalife) was like a Lord a Sir a mini king like "Malek" and that Kelp was dog.
If I'm wrong, just thinking back many years ago, no wonder this particular guy looked at me in a strange way when I called him Caliph (Kalife) every time we met . | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/31/2009 8:49:18 PM |
Do you agree that both the communication of terms as well as of violations of terms plays a role? If she called me right before the penetration and said "I am about to fornicate and you are not here." I would not call it cheating, because I can react accordingly.
I understand your point. In your scenario, she may and may not be "cheating". If you violated you agreement, ethically, she should inform you that the agreement is void. In your same scenario, if she violates the agreement through extra-marital sexual activity without your permission, then you would be free to do likewise without "cheating". In reality, one can only cheat once, after the initial breaking of the the agreement, it no longer exists.
Secondly, in your scenario, your wife cannot be fornicating as that act is commonly referred to as sex prior to marriage. However, in the strictest sense of the word which is etymologically rooted in the Greek pornea, refers to all "sexual immorality" whatever that means as defined in by cultural context.
Best,
ACP | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/31/2009 9:06:11 PM |
am in the heat of a fight with my husband...I am not feeling love, or honor, etc......I am feeling hurt and angry. Does that mean because I failed at that at that time, my contract with him is broken and all other aspects void??????????? ( still between the two of us....not bringing in a third party)
Each relationship agreement is mutually negotiated by the partners involved. Each relationship functions in the ways that those involved deem best. If an aspect of the contract is broken, the other partner certainly can give the violation a pass, issue a warning, etc. How each couple chooses to enforce their mutually negotiated contract is between them.
Give me a break. Infidelity is a big NO NO...........
Agreed. Any violation of a marital contract is infidelity (violation of trust/agreement).
Why not just say they didn't fulfill the contract. In that senario.........hell leaving the toliet seat up would be grounds for dismissal!!!!!!!!
Only if it is clearly stipulated in the agreement. If not something is not defined, it cannot be violated. "Traditional" vows as you call them are quite vague or ambiguous. There is no specificity and much generality open to a multitude of interpretations.
What do they tell these people that believe them and then find out it is a fling, a cheap F*ck...........whatever the occasion for the lies and deception????
You would have to ask these people. You seem to have ascribed meanings to my comments that do not exist. I have not advocated cheating.
As for the lies and deception, the circumstances of the lie or deception are no different than any other. It seems to me that any wise adult would perform due diligence as their caveat emptor.
Lies are never justified. Relationships should always be built on truth so all involved can make informed decisions.
Agreed. There is no good reason to cheat and as long as the mutual agreement that organizes the relationship is intact, it is wrong to cheat. Once that agreement is void, there is no cheating.
Best,
ACP | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/31/2009 9:10:55 PM |
Some people who've been in relationships where cheating has happened have worked through that, and felt their relationship has gotten better post-adultery. I'd agree that they're in the minority, but why would you insist they are wrong? because how can you truly trust someone who has betrayed you, even it its once, im sure the relationship no matter how much they say they have recovered and forgiven, its still in the back of the mind, oh that late night meeting, or the trip the sporting event with the Boys or Girls, blah blah blah.
My beef is why cheat in the first place? | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 8/31/2009 10:19:01 PM | OK, I am sure I am about to be ripped to shreads by everyone - but in the name of honesty, here goes. (first post so hope it doesnt just come across as ramblings of a mad man)
Firstly, I agree with lucylia about being able to cheat whilst being in love with your partner, although possibly due to differing circumstanses. I love my partner, very much so - we have common interests, we communicate well, we are a great team. In almost every way we are compatible, that is except sexually. I have a very high sex drive, I always have done, and for the first few years of our relationship she kept up (ish). But here we are 9 years later and she simply isnt interested in sex at all, we have had deep talks about this because it was effecting my self confidence, my moods and my desire to want to be affectionate towards her.
As it happens she does love me, she just isn't sexual - not to me nor anyone - never even thinks about it. Whilst I find this wierd and confusing, it is the way it is. We discussed going our own separate ways but niether of us wanted to, she agreed to put in more effort to have sex more frequently - so all good your thinking?
The problem is, that if a woman is not into it, then a guy may as well go into the other room and sort himself out, because contrary to common belief the bulk of sexual pleasure is derived from pleasing your partner. There is no pleasure in trying to make love to someone who would rather be reading a book or watching NCIS because Gibbs left the last show in suspence!
So what does a person do? He loves his partner, has aired the issue and a resolve is not that simple to reach. Have I cheated - not yet....... but I ask all you God quoters to just stop and look at the gray areas. If your so clever and can sit on a grandstand and cast judgement on others - why are you on here? why did your relationships fail?
I feel that I am a good person, I pull my weight around the house, I try to be considerate of her needs, I like to be romantic etc. Am I perfect? No, I can be moody, I have far too much energy & I talk alot. But I am honest and caring. I try also to keep myself in shape as to try to get her interested....
Society has educated us to understand women better, and I think for the best part we men do. But nothing ever gets said about a woman needing to try to understand a man. We are not complicated creatures, we are for the most part instinctive and easy to please. The problem is that women try to deal with matters with a womans mind set, and over complicate things.
I am not suggesting that cheating should be condoned, but if he is a womanizing ***hole thats exactly what he is. If he is a person looking to be complete or satisfied in this one life that he has, he is not necesarily a bad person.
My two cents. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/1/2009 6:03:49 AM | ^^^^ bobroberts1
Like I have stated all along...cheating is never justified. Now sometimes cheating can be explained and maybe understood. This is where I stand in yr specific case.
Men can hardly understand what you have understood...sometimes women's bodies betray us...we just don't have interest in sex even if we adore our husbands...
The only thing you would need to do is see if your wife gave you permission or accepted you to find that unfulfilled need elsewhere, then it would not even be cheating but an arrangement.
I wish you the best and, yes you are having it very difficult. Please never let it affect your self confidence, it is not about you, it is about her body and her hormones levels... | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/1/2009 8:23:08 AM | So what does a person do? He loves his partner, has aired the issue and a resolve is not that simple to reach. Have I cheated - not yet....... but I ask all you God quoters to just stop and look at the gray areas. If your so clever and can sit on a grandstand and cast judgement on others - why are you on here? why did your relationships fail?
I could have copied almost your whole post.but it seemed fruitless, so I chose this.
My husband was unable to have sex for more than five years before he died. I also have a very high sex drive. Did I cheat, did I EVEN consider cheating .....HELL NO!!!!!!!
I also waited over 18 months before i even had COFFEE with another man. I couldn't bear the thought of someone even stepping into his shoes, anyone ever touching me but him. AND I GUARANTEE YOU, YOU HAVE NO HIGHER SEX DRIVE THAN I DO!! But I LOVED him.............I would not seek to satisfy myself outside the bonds of our relationship because I have a CONSTITUSION in me, that LOVE is indeed LOVE.......and I meant the " forsaking all others and keeping yourself unto him.as long as you both shall live".
Love, without it we will always find EXCUSES, with it we will always find A WAY!!
I LOVED HIM> Re-read your own post and you will realize that it is YOUR needs you are concerned about ..........SELFISHNESS>>>>>...... My relationshipe DID NOT FAIL..he died, which we had no control over. His last words were that he could not leave his baby.....I NEVER ever doubt that I made that man happy, and he made me happy.......unable to have sex or not,......... that he trusted me with his life...and if possible he would have postponed Heaven for me!!
Cheating is CHEATING...end of story!!
Mahoganyrush!!!!!
YOU ARE RIGHT ON THE MONEY!!!!! | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/1/2009 8:48:03 AM | What it comes down to is that we don't 'need' sex - we 'want' sex. Many make the mistake, especially men, of saying "I need sex". But the only time we actually need it is in order to pro-create. I have spent years inbetween relationships being celibate, and did not die. Therefore sex is a want, a desire - not a need. So the excuse "I needed sex" doesn't really wash imo.
Usually the reason people cheat is because of ego; I cheated because I knew I was going to be dumped, so I had sex with someone else to make myself feel better, for when the inevitable dumping happened. Can I justify it? You can justify anything in your own mind... what is or isn't acceptable depends on the person's own perspective, as well as others. If you can live with having slept with someone else, other than your partner, then you can comfort yourself with any excuse you please. I felt a little guilty but as things deteriorated and he stabbed me in the back, I was glad I'd let that woman pleasure me behind his back.
And when we had 'make-up sex' at his instigation, after a big row, then he dumped me the very next time he saw me - I was glad I'd cheated on him. He'd used me for sex when he just wanted to dump me... When I asked him "Why?" he made excuses... "I was half asleep" and "I was confused". I left his house thinking things were ok between us (well, not really - many issues) - at least for the moment anyway. The next time I saw my b/f he brought my stuff from his house, turned up late deliberately - hoping I'd complain, give him an opportunity to start an argument. Except I didn't complain. So instead he had to ask to talk to me, then tell me he was dumping me... then offered to get my stuff out of the boot of his car. He got sex by deception - that's cheating imo too. So he got even! | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/1/2009 9:45:28 AM |
Man has worked very hard for many years, nice house, kids, material possessions, etc, but has no intimacy at home. Chooses to stay in the marriage as he knows the alimony will crush him, she stays home, raises kids, and he will lose half of everything he has worked so hard for. So he seeks intimacy outside the marriage.
Sounds familiar, and yes I can see the point; but at the end of the day anyone with half an ounce of self respect or respect for others wouldn't cheat.
Upping and leaving is an option and it can be done. I did it, but I was lucky, I have a good job, I work for myself and I can earn as much or as little as I need, depending upon how much effort I put in. My divorce cost me a house and fairly high monthly maintenance for the kids, school trips, school fees, etc., etc., so it was, and still is, expensive. That said, what price happiness? I wasn't happy in the marriage and there was very little intimacy; but I never considered cheating and in any case it would only have made an unhappy marriage even worse. Eventually I made up my mind and when I walked away, I walked out of the door with not much more than a black binbag of dirty washing and started again. With the exception of my motorbike and my laundry, I literally left everything behind (including the dog). But as I said, I'm lucky and was able to afford the split.
Now, if I put myself in someone else's shoes and look at upping and leaving from the perspective of the guy on a fixed salary who works 9-5 for a company and only gets an annual payrise; and who has worked hard for much of his life to achieve what he has achieved, then that decision to walk away becomes much, much harder. So what is the answer? Cheat? Stay and put up with it? Stay and try to make it work? Agree on an 'open' relationship? Leave?
Personally, I think talk first, take it from there and don't make decisions lightly. I don't believe a lack of intimacy is justification enough for cheating. | |
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