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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/13/2009 7:38:33 PM |
Using your above scenario...what happened to the intimacy? Most of the time, my belief is the guys snuff it out of the marriage. Women are custodians of the intimacy, and as long as their man contributes just enough oxygen to allow her to keep the flame alive.
Mind explaining this? Basically witholding sex if you don't get what you want? | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/13/2009 11:02:19 PM |
If it is reasonable to expect sex and ones partner does not participate shouldn't the responsibility to leave the relationship be on the denier?
Assuming a certain definition of "denying" - saying "No" for no good reason - I certainly see your point. Sex occurs naturally between two people who like each other. There is no denying going on as each is hungry for the body of the other. When denying does occur one can't help but conclude the denier no longer likes their partner - which if true, puts the onus to leave on the denier.
However, on the other hand, if the above is the case, I personally see it as my responsibility to leave a woman if I sense she no longer likes me. I have no desire to be with a woman who doesn't' like me - not even for "just sex" - which is being denied in this hypothetical case.
In terms of responsibility, an argument can be made that both, the denier, and their partner have equal responsibility to leave. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/14/2009 9:45:16 AM | The fact is if you are not happy you should leave, if you don't then accept the bed you made for yourself and make an effort to try to fix your problems.
People just want the best of both worlds and despite the obviousness of being unable to justify such actions they just convince themselves they can as it helps them sleep at night. Sadly there are too many morally corrupt people in the world. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/14/2009 11:40:41 AM | {For the record I am happily married, faithful and sex does play a vital role in the marriage.}
Interesting dave1234...you say you are "happily married, faithful" ??????? Then, why are you on a singles site!!!!???? | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/14/2009 5:26:37 PM |
(Msg 406) Interesting dave1234...you say you are "happily married, faithful" ??????? Then, why are you on a singles site!!!!????
For the social interaction. Friendship. And, periodically, I like to think someone benefits from my input.
People have queried why I don't join a "friendship" site. There are a couple of reasons.
I checked out so-called "friendship" sites such as IMVU, Second Life, etc. While my age is plainly visible there is an overabundance of 20-something females offering simulated sex (avatars which can be manipulated) in return for credits with which they purchase items (homes, furniture, clothes) on the respective sites.
The second reason is other members continually try to contact me via chat requests to sell those credits I mentioned.
In short, a sleazy, money-grabbing set-up.
My profile on here clearly states my age and that I'm married. I doubt any female is interested in a married man my age so I don't see any problem. Do you envision my being seduced by someone? | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/14/2009 8:21:59 PM | Dave1234,
I don't think we need to justify/explain why we are married and on a dating site. The day the site clearly states its banned to married people!!!! then maybe...
I only respond to one person, that person being the one the supports me. At this point would be my husband. that is the only person I owe and explanation. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/14/2009 9:12:13 PM | | Only the ugly don't cheat. Beautiful people and those who think they are beautiful never miss a opportunity to cheat if they think they can get away with it. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/15/2009 12:23:37 AM | Sex comes in many different form the least talked or concered about is reproduction. That aside sex is a tool it can be used for intimacy to make someone feel special, BUT it can also just be simply that they want a companion. People believe that sex lacking intimacy is taboo. It is just SEX its an act that can be different and have unique feeling attatched to it depending who it is with and for what purpose. But it is also just an act something you do. The whole Taboo background of frivolis sex is based in a bunch of religious mumbo jumbo all stemming back to the purity of marriage. Yet you can have atheist screaming at the top of thier lung about getting cheated on. My mind is wandering sorry. SO is it cheating if it is nothing more than an act? | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/15/2009 12:36:47 AM | It doesnt matter rather you can see their point or not, what happened to balls? I mean come on, for men and women.. If your not feckin happy and feel the need to sleep around and be dishonest just get out...
And that whole lame azz excuse of staying because they will lose half of everything I've heard it many times and the next time I hear it, I am totally going to run them over with my car it is the biggest crock of BS. Blech, pussies!
^T^ | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/15/2009 7:56:41 PM | Hi,
Two things -
First
I would like to do, like GBockers did - compliment sweetest on her literate so-real post #376.
Secondly
I guess I am an example case subject for this discussion - would love to have others thoughts on suggested actions... ideas, or ...
So here it goes - my story:
Background:
I married at 42, found my wife on an online dating site - both of us I guess feeling desperate to find someone (yeah, an observation based on current conditions)... and the fact I was getting tired of being dumped and being alone.
I'm American, typical of Norwegian descent, quiet, shy till I know someone - not the kind to jump in front of crowds or approach people - shy in public... thus why I went to online dating. My wife was a divorcee from China. Came over here with her husband and shortly later divorced. I had been laid off many months before we met. We dated and seemed to like spending time with each other - the usual romance, safe sex, etc... and she moved in after 6 months. Shortly later I proposed (though we both knew this was gonna happen or she wouldn't have moved in)... just wanted to spend time together before making the engagement official. We married, went to visit her parents in China like 6 months later, came back home and she went off birth control without telling me. I discovered her pills with the last month still there the day we got back. We had been abstinent in China (my choice - I didn't want to conceive over there... and besides, didn't feel well most of the time)... so we were both horny when we got home (at least I was). Despite knowing she had been off for like a half hour, guess it didn't hit me - we had sex - and she got pregnant. I loved her with all my heart. Though she never initiated sex - I assumed it was just cause of her ethnicity/culture and that eventually we would get better together. You have to remember - I'm a quiet guy, reserved, nervous... shy. We had a son.
Current situation married 6 years, son is 4 1/2:
Before our child - she didn't initiate - but she did eagerly act to make me happy - she did participate. Since our child was born - she has had zero interest in sex. I joined iVillage.com - a woman's site, to read up on what a woman wants a guy to do to please her - learned a lot, tried hard to suggest, teach, try, anything to get her to initiate including telling her 'I really need to feel part of this marriage, you need to let me know you want me and initiate 'anything' - including holding hands, anything... She has no interest. Once the next day, she took my hand while we walked with our son - never since that day. I asked her to read the site - printed suggested reading that if I was a woman thought sure she would enjoy - she read a paragraph and threw it down. Even material with 'how to deal with a low labido'... no luck. When we have sex - I always have to initiate or imply (i.e. laying nude with an erection or touching her sensually). Beginning like 9 months ago she was so bold as to say things like 'ok, make it quick', or 'hurry, I have to go'... mood breakers for sure.
She hates oral... won't do anything but get on top or missionary, and again - just lays or wiggles enough to get me off - then crawls off and into the bathroom. I can request a bj - she told me she hates it, probably the only thing she will do if I almost beg, like once every 6 months... - and always runs and spits in the bathroom.
After 4+ years of this - I had enough, and on one of her: 'days off I didn't tell him about cause I want to work on my personal project', I asked her to sit down and told her how I felt. That I try so hard to get you to participate, offer suggested reading so you can learn (as once a year after marriage she implied it was she didn't know), I read books, web-sites - try as hard as I can to encourage us to become closer. Now - Important - I sat down with her TWICE, a month apart, basically repeating everything - and both times got the same response: "We are opposites. I do love you but I am not in love with you. I cannot give you what you desire - I just do not feel or desire what you want. If that is what you seek - go find someone else." I challenged her both times saying "I love you very much - I want us to be together, I do not want someone else" and she would repeat her sentence again. (so I guess I have heard it 4 times on two occasions)...
What have I done since then:
I have posted on CL looking for a Friend. In my post I have always (with maybe a few months exception when I changed my status for a week to Separated, as technically we are emotionally separated with me sleeping on a different level in the house! I can sleep with her, but she says I snore) - the rest of the time (probably 2 years +) including now: It states Married. I have tried posting every way I can - I have tried telling about our different cultures; another time for a month telling 'she told me we have an open marriage, and despite this fact - at this time all I am seeking is friendship. And, if I were to ever want more - I would divorce first.' My profile has gone from writing too much, to writing as today: All I seek is a friend - nothing more. I will not mention my marriage status, so no drama unless you ask. I am always honest. Beginning like 6 months ago, I have even posted my results in an attempt to show how impossible it is to meet anyone here - if I am honest and just want a friend.
I am firm in this stance - yeah, sure - sex is great. If I met someone, we became friends - I would like to get divorced before we had sex - I am 49 - I am in NO hurry to jump in the sack. A moments thrill is not worth loosing a friend.
This site states the possibility of seeking friendship - so I figured Great - it would be a start.
Additional facts why I am in no hurry - as debated here, not entirely money/assets as some posts mention - but there is a reason behind these feelings: I was laid-off again in January. I am trying to find a job, but the market is poor right now. I do not care for property/house (yes, in both our names) or anything - what I want to avoid is being forced to get a low paying job just to try and meet alimony and child-support I will surely be required to pay (yeah, as I expect - and I would want too, at least the child-support, though technically she supported me from 1/2 year before to 1/2 year after we were married including the time she got pregnant). But - if I have to take a lousy job - I am far less likely to find a match position when one finally opens. I can support my child so much better if I make what I am worth.
So - here I am sharing my history and situation.
Married, with 4 year old child, wife that 1) hates sex, 2) will not try, and 3) told me to look elsewhere. And me just wanting to find a friend to go to the movies, get out with, talk to, etc... just a friend. Maybe next year that will be different, I will probably have a new job - but I do not want to dwell or plan on it. I would be happy having someone I am attracted to - to laugh with and live as friends.
The up-side is if I did meet someone - I would have a reason to try harder to find a job.
Right now - I have struggled with passing thoughts of 'why the hell am I here' - suicide would be an option - except for my son - a reason to live... I have suffered depression in the past - nearly getting killed in a bicycle accident - medication did nothing to change my mood - not a physical drug fixable feeling - I understand these are... were! only passing thoughts and the future will be different.
I have yet to fully cheat (as in intimate sex) though the desire exists... (I did meet a gal via a platonic invitation last year, after the movie was over, just before we parted, we kissed for a couple minutes - she was nearing divorce herself - clothes on, no intimacy - just a moment of distraction... we parted and have not seen each other again - I do regret it, but hardly call it cheating as it really went no where. Note, this was after the wife told me to find someone else - this fact was never mentioned to my date as we had no intentions of anything besides friends - no intention of fooling around existed before a spontaneous kiss... She knew I was married and I her.
So why am I posting here - just looking for suggestions I guess. I refuse to pretend to be single to get dates - I am not a liar. I enjoy being honest and feel no relationship can last without honesty and respect. She failed to show me this - not being honest with me about, as it seems, just wanting to have my child - and not respect as if she did, she would - as others write - understand it is our duty to please the desires of our partner - that is what marriage is about...
What do you folks think I should do:
1) Divorce now, be forced into a $10/hr job just to pay child support when I was making $60k/year before.
2) Stay married and do as my wife said - have an open marriage - I hate the word 'cheat'... I am a Lutheran and although at times wonder if God is still around - I DO have strong values - even if I am human and slip occasionally.
3) Stay married and tough it out - like some here, go 14 more years without sex.
I had a pen-pal psychologist not too long ago after she posted for a platonic friend (I'd swear that was her job - never asked) who would write me pages upon pages of why what is happening... was nice to email someone - but went no-where and gained nothing. She too - apparently did not believe all I want is a friend.............. for now and as far ahead as I care to look.
p.s. Sorry - I do like to type... maybe I should be a writer... | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/15/2009 8:06:15 PM | Oops... of course - typing so much, I am not an 'editor' that catches bugs till it posts.
where I wrote:
What have I done since then:
I have posted on CL looking for a Friend.
I should have wrote:
What have I done since then:
I have posted on Plenty of fish looking for a Friend. Deleting and recreating my profile thinking the name made some difference... since March 2008.
The CL reference should go with the gal mentioned
(I did meet a gal via a platonic invitation last year,
Yeah - I am a nerd (though no glasses), a perfectionist some times, always tries to be as clear as I can...
Thanks for reading... | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/15/2009 8:16:34 PM | justwantone72,
in response to what the OP originally wrote....
even though whoever the man is that has worked hard for many years, nice house, kids, possessions but no intimacy at home but chooses to stay married because of alimony etc...
this is chicken sh*t...
if the kids or spouse is physically, mentally abused etc...then get a divorce.
if the same won't leave and divorce because of the alimony he'd have to pay then too freakin bad...suffer in it then.
if you don't like your marriage but stay in it because of MONEY then suffer...
tell me, what's the cost of peace and contentment?
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/15/2009 9:11:49 PM | tell me, what's the cost of peace and contentment?
I fell out of love with my first husband after years of physical and emotional abuse.
It was not because of cheating.........although after years of this.......when he would approach me, I would tell him to go look elsewhere, anywhere. He would get p*ss ass drunk and think I was gonna have sex with him. He disgusted me. I don't mind being poked, but I be danged if I am gonna be jabbed.
It was not because I had no interest in sex....it was because I had NO interest in sex with a man that thought treating me bad outside of the bedroom was OK. Also at the time I told him, I was on my way out. I left a five thousand square feet house, 10 acres, Inground pool, 18 stall horse ball with horses, etc, etc. Told him to keep it, he needed worse than I did.
I didn't even fight for my share of any of it. I signed a release to let him have everything but my children.
I went to live on the worse side of town, terrible house that took me several years to renovate.........even had rats at first, BUT I was so happy to get away from him.
The price of peace and contentment..........there isn't one. No amount of money or things can bring that to you.
He followed me around crying and begging for two years. He would call in the middle of the night and asked me what I would do if he got another woman. OMG........we are divorced!! He is NOW so sorry for how bad he treated me.........RIGHT!!!!
So my answer was if he found another woman,.I would flip her a quarter and tell her to go find a good piece!!
I am sure there are many stories that are factual, but then there are an awful lot of CHEATING spouses fabricating things.............or simply denying their role in how the other person has changed.Very seldom is it ONLY one person. With us, the more he hurt me, the more I withdrew........and I was DONE. I became bitter no doubt with him.
After a while, nothing could have fixed our marriage short of a miracle.
Cheating is still cheating. I could have taken a lover even back then.....because I was definitely craving the attention of a man I thought he was to start with.........or he could have. Neither of us did. That is probably the only thing I ever respected about that man..................that and that he is the father of my children.........he was a lousy dad, but has improved greatly with the arrival of our grandson..........so I give him that.
We both lived in our own hell thru the end of that marriage.........but bringing someone else into it would have solved nothing.
CHEATING IS CHEATING!! | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/15/2009 11:55:10 PM | Can one judge others for having justifiable needs of intimacy met outside the marriage after they have given an honest attempt at resolving intimacy issues at home? Do we hold a "deal" over our "legitimate needs?"
Cheating.... why is having sex outside of a dysfunctional marriage the issue? It's a symptom to a bigger problem. The problem is the inability of one spouse to provide a nurturing, intimate environment. THEY are the ones who have broken the rules. THEY are the ones who made a vow, a promise, a commitment and then broke that promise by not honoring their spouse. The one who has fallen out of intimacy is the one who cheated. They broke the rules.
Granted, that's a strawman argument with one bad guy and one good guy, but you get the idea. If in this situation you actually have a "good guy" and "bad guy" where the bad guy refuses to be intimate and the good guy has tried everything to make it work... who the hell are we to condemn the good guy for getting their needs met elsewhere?
If the commitment involved promising to feed one another, and one stops feeding the other... what is a person to do? It's a legitimate need. If you have a legitimate need that is not being met, and you have exhausted all other options in rectifying the situation... then go get that need met elsewhere. To condemn such actions is to invalidate the need and puts the (already broken) commitment over the need.
I say go have fun and get that need met as often as you can. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/16/2009 12:59:38 AM | "Can one judge others for having justifiable needs of intimacy met outside the marriage after they have given an honest attempt at resolving intimacy issues at home? Do we hold a "deal" over our "legitimate needs?" "
If you vowed monogamy, then end the marraige and then go get the 'lgegitimate needs' met elsewhere instead of within the marragie.
I have no problem with the existence of the needs .... but with the integrity of the vow and what it means about whether the person can be trusted to keep their word. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/16/2009 1:02:12 AM | "The first marriage he was hardly ever home either ....
The second marriage I would beg for sex and he always came up with an excuse. "
In both instances he was unavailable. See if you can find any early warning signs in those relationships that you missed. Any ways you might have known that after marraige they would make themselves unavailable. Then make that a red flag for future relationships. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/16/2009 7:55:38 AM |
If you vowed monogamy, then end the marraige and then go get the 'lgegitimate needs' met elsewhere instead of within the marragie.
Easy to play armchair quarterback and say "end the marriage." Divorce isn't as easy as changing the curtains or getting a new pc. I view it as severing an appendage with a hatchet; very messy and it's going to hurt a lot.
Vowing "monogomy" is under the original contract/agreement/marriage arrangement which had the logical assumptions that both people were going to be civil, respectful and intimate with each other. Given the situation where one, the lazy slob of a husband, is no longer honoring his part of the contract, the contract now enters the realm of "null and void."
Again, the marriage is providing certain acceptable assumptions that are expected in the relationship. If the guy goes back on providing the reasonably expected amount of intimacy, then why should she continue to have that need go unmet? If 90% of her needs are met, why throw away the dysfunctional relationship over going out and meeting a cute energetic, strapping, viril, energized busboy or UPS guy?
Again, this is under the assumption that a person has taken all the right actions in rectifying the marriage, i.e. sought counseling, therapy, bought a Rabbit vibrator etc. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/16/2009 9:09:12 AM | | Can i have $1800 dollars too? I promise i won't have sex with you either. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/16/2009 9:26:38 AM | Re: Dave1234's reasons why he is here.
I dunno...I still think it is strange. Does your wife know you are on here?
And again I dunno re last question...don't see your photo! LOL! | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/16/2009 1:57:55 PM |
(Msg 421) Re: Dave1234's reasons why he is here.
I dunno...I still think it is strange. Does your wife know you are on here?
And again I dunno re last question...don't see your photo! LOL!
My wife knows I chat with people on the computer. I doubt she is aware of all the specific sites/people I connect with, HOWEVER, (and this really does require stressing) three years after we met and were living together I drove to Pennsylvania to meet a group of people I had chatted with on the net. I stayed three days in a hotel with 20 or so other people from the "chat room". I went alone.
We both attended a get-together in NY State and I went to Toronto by myself for a couple of days.
As for my photo I keep it hidden out of respect for my wife. Unfortunately, there are people who might see my photo on this site and draw all sorts of incorrect conclusions, if you know what I mean. And while we're on the subject of photos I must say you certainly take a good one.  | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/16/2009 2:14:20 PM | ive never understood why married people are on a dating site? I mean I can understand if you met here on POF and you like the forums OK I get it, but married looking for friends? what about your friggen spouse? isnt she/her YOUR FRIEND?
People who are married and spends their time on a dating site ,just because they want to chat with people I find truly odd? you're telling me you dont have friends out in the real world, why not use msn/yahoo, or face book or a chat site dedicated to , wait a minute ...... for chatting?
Ive seen some married couples on the forums, and they say so from the get go, so I can understand that, but married without their spouse present on the site, is very suspicious to me. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/16/2009 2:46:08 PM |
ive never understood why married people are on a dating site? ...what about your friggen spouse? isnt she/her YOUR FRIEND?
People often confuse "Open Relationship" with "Cheating." I don't like cheaters of any sort, but being married doesn't necessarily mean you don't have permission. Just because somebody's profile states, "Married" doesn't mean they are cheating. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/16/2009 2:53:21 PM |
what about your friggen spouse? isnt she/her YOUR FRIEND?
Someone can't have more than one friend? | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/16/2009 3:22:31 PM | No apollofriend, most people who are in open marriages gravitates towards sites geared to open marriages/swinging etc, not on a free site that caters to dating and what not.
Married person on a dating site, no picture, no identifying characteristics , anonymity is a wonderful thing isnt it?for every one married person on here actually not looking to cheat, you will find 100 dirtbags that will.
How do you tell the genuine from the not so genuine, yeah you will hear some that says , oh my spouse approves, but you hear nothing from the spouse, why not post a picture of you and your spouse, what are you afraid of, if you're happily married, and you have a picture of you and your wife/hubby, so what if others see it? why would you care its says your married.
Pro filer Of course they can have more than one friend, care to nit pick some more now? | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 9/16/2009 3:27:28 PM | Apollo, anyone, man or woman, who is married or in a relationship and on a dating site is cheating 100 percent. You don't have to swap body fluids to be a cheater. There is emotional cheating too.
Hmmm there are similiarities between an open relationship/open marriage (why bother being in one when your going to screw around?) and cheating such as as both encourage risky sexual behaviour and are dangerous and degrading. | |
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