|Justifying Cheating?Page 19 of 24 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24)|
you sure do read a lot in to what I'm saying that is not their. What I am trying to say is there is a major problem that I cannot seem to solve, because I do not know what it is. My late wife passed of cancer. We fought cancer for six long years. I did not know intimacy of any kind for at least five of those six years. I was faithful because she was the love of my life. The lady that I am married to now. Six months after we got married she turned 180° and the things she said that she liked she did not want to do anymore, she quit being a wife and became a mother (at 62 years of age I do not need a mother). Now I have been faithful to her since we started dating. We dated for 18 months, we have been married for going on five years. I find myself going into major depressions for the lack of intimacy. I am a firm believer in that to make a marriage or relationship work, that requires the 2 C's which is communications and commitment. So you'll say why am I still in this marriage by doing what he wants to kill year for the same reason that women stay in an abusive relationship Now if you and many others here want to know why people supposedly cheats on their spouse. Some people I grant you are dirt bags and cheat just because they can. But there are others that are trying to survive. So I'm going to ask you again how long can you go without intimacy of any kind?
Posted: 9/17/2009 7:36:30 PM
years ago on that opinion board, I put up the question why do women stay in abusive relationships, believe it or not I've got a lot of very good answers, maybe you can come up with one or two of those answers too. Now that I truly understand that situation from the reverse side that puts a whole new light on things
Posted: 9/17/2009 8:11:39 PM
|been there,first marriage..........very young and very STUPID.......and first relationship after Ray died, ( I was like walking dead with " wounded prey" written all over me),,,,,,got the T-shirt.....,,, but not in the habit of staying in ANY bad situation, so I can't really comment on them. Once the abuse became a given,,,,,,,,, I got the h*LL out as soon as I could and never looked back. Even walked away from literally millions$$$$$ to do so.|
Your explanation ie, of where you are in your relationship is a far cry from what it appears at the beginning. The two C's.........still involve you......and her. Tough call...but I will NEVER believe CHEATING is the answer!
Posted: 9/17/2009 8:38:18 PM
|again you avoided the real question, of how long can you go without any intimacy, and that's my point right there. With this conversation that we have had this evening, has given me enough intimacy to go a couple more days, because I was able to connect with you on a personal level. Loneliness is a killer.|
I think you msphrased that last statement that you made "but I will never believe cheating is the answer" whether you like it or not cheating is an answer it may not be the correct answer but it is still an answer.
Just to give you a little example of my situation is 11:35 I have been in this house all day long by myself I am fixing to go to bed by myself.
Have a great night
and thanks for the conversation
Posted: 9/18/2009 2:28:07 AM
|ApolloFriend: Just because someone can't comprehend why you embrace an open marriage, doesn't make them full of hate. AA is so far from that...if you don't want to be judged, stop judging. Just because they don't agree doesn't make them the enemy..|
Posted: 9/18/2009 3:07:03 AM
|rvroksgp...you are new to the site...and I don't know if you've read all the posts to this thread. Much of what I've posted before is from a point of view on a situation similar to your own---a spouse withholding intimacy from the other. Here are two of mine:|
from post 180 pg 7
Cheating is wrong morally.
Withholding sex and intimacy is wrong morally.
What's commonly suggested here is that there's 'a pass' or something 'less moral' for those who choose not to remain intimate; and no pass for those who choose to take the intimacy out of the marriage. Both in these instances are equally morally wrong.
Marriage insists that you are everything to each other forever - it's that simple and that difficult. Marriage is not easy because you cannot and will not feel the same over time; so how you get to have a successful longstanding marriage from that place of bliss where you started out is the challenge...and a tremendous one at that. I failed in my marriage by not honoring the terms of the contract in my marriage. Any resultant action on the part of my ex was as a result immoral to our marriage but no more than my own role. jmo
from post 200 pg 8
"..... if the couple is determined to stay within the marriage and have no sex between them...the nuts and bolts around bringing sex back individually to each needs to be the discussion. Women/men cannot unilaterally expect to make a huge breach in the terms of their marriage and not expect something else to rise up to take the place of what was, whether that is cheating or a reworking and a new understanding around the marriage from where it is now...given the breach, or separation.
You might also be interested in reading posts from ACP throughout.
Posted: 9/18/2009 3:28:48 AM
|Cheating isn't justifiable. Period.|
The human animal has an acute aversion to admitting when it is wrong about something (about any and all things, actually - no transgression is too big or too small to blame on something or someone else).
This is the breeding ground for lies, subterfuge, and excuses.
Offering up excuses for one's behavior does not constitute justification - an excuse is an excuse is an excuse - and while some may sound more plausible than others, in the end they're all just attempts at avoiding responsibilty for one's words and/or deeds.
Posted: 9/18/2009 3:43:19 AM
|Lots of vulnerable young women get sucked into lies such as these.|
THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF SINGLE GUYS OUT THERE. LEAVE THE MARRIED ONES ALONE; IF THE GUY WILL CHEAT ON HIS WIFE; HONEY, HE WILL CHEAT ON YOU!!! BETTER TO BE ALONE THAN 'WITH' A MARRIED GUY.
MY EX-HUSBAND CHEATED ON ME FOR YEARS. HE IS THE LOSER, NOT ME!!
LET HIM ROT WITH THE BARTENDER GIRLFRIEND WHILE I WILL ONE DAY FIND THE 'LOVE OF MY LIFE' : AN HONORABLE, NICE GUY!
Posted: 9/18/2009 3:53:28 AM
years ago on that opinion board, I put up the question why do women stay in abusive relationships, believe it or not I've got a lot of very good answers, maybe you can come up with one or two of those answers too
You are asking people to give you answers, but why should other people give you answers YOU are the one who wants to cheat... I personally can not come up with one GOOD reason for a person to cheat! you give us your answer. Why are you still married?
You can also be described as an abuser
If your wife is not giving you the intimacy you need , get a divorce or are you too yellow? to do it on your own, or do you need a maid to look after you while you Fvck around? Go to seek counseling.
If you put in as much time into your relationship as you do trying to "FIND" intimacy things might work out.
Posted: 9/18/2009 5:53:21 AM
|Allot depends on the situation. My wife (who I Love very much) Has a long term illness, and is unable to have sex. In the last 10 yrs I have had 2 non-sexual relationships. both of these women wouldn't have sex as long as Im married. You have no way of knowing how hard it is in some situations. I would have had sex with either one of them, and would not have felt guilty. besides sometimes you need someone you can trust to get your feelings out.|
Posted: 9/18/2009 5:57:56 AM
|rvroksqp, your question how long can you go without intimacy, depends on the person, but i would think if she's not being intimate or she's stopped the intimacy , well I suspect something is wrong, either mentally of physically, you need to sit down with her and have a talk, obviously something is wrong.|
If she refuses to talk about it, then discuss it with your doctor, discuss it with a professional, let them document it, she maybe afraid to chat, but something is obviously wrong, You may love her but if she's not willing to sit down and discuss whats wrong, unless its mental and she doesnt know how, you need to be more patient, and I understand you have limits.
But is fooling around on her really the answer to satisfy a need? think about it ,Generally people who feel incomplete, inadequate and unappreciated are more likely to seek comfort in a sexual relationship , but its a temporary fix, like putting a band aid on a shark bite.
Posted: 9/18/2009 6:43:22 AM
|I really dislike cheating. There are usually alternatives, though I can certainly understand the reason people do it.|
Let's say you have back pain. Untreated, it causes a great deal of physical and mental pain, discomfort, and unhappiness. Your spouse can easily relieve the pain simply by giving you a 15 minute back massage a few times a week. However, for whatever reason, she won't or can't do so, despite discussions and even meetings with the doctor and counsellors. Everything else about the relationship is wonderful, and who would leave over such a thing, really? So, what would you do? Of course, you'd get someone else to give you a back massage - you'd fnd a massage or physical therapist, or maybe the neighbor will do it in exchange for mowing the lawn. Whatever. Is the spouse going to say, "No, you can't get a massage, even though I won't give you one"?
How is the pain of lack of intimacy different? It certainly leads to real mental anguish, physical discomfort, and emotional distress. Rejection hurts, and we all know know what that's like, and some know it on a continuing basis. If your spouse won't work with you on this, then sure, you can leave even if everything else is great, but as in the example above, is there a true mutual benefit to leaving versus staying? If you've gone through the usual process of trying to resolve the issue, and your spouse is unwilling to give you permission to seek intimacy elsewhere, cheating is reasonable. It's still a sad and unfortunate situation. If the spouse is denying intimacy out of lack of love, then you'd probably be better off leaving despite everything else, but it's seldom a clear-cut decision and the factors will be different for each person.
You may raise the issue of vows - those are a religious argument, as they are not necessarily part of the legal contract, and if you don't believe in the religion seriously, they may not hold much weight. I could care less about that aspect - I'm interested in the ethical and practical issues. My vows, for example, only commited us to staying together "as long as you both shall love." There were no other promises, and we can petty easily assess the "state of the union" at any time.
Posted: 9/18/2009 6:45:29 AM
I think I'll start with you. No I did not read all these posts just the last couple of pages. You said "cheating is wrong morally". Just that word "morality" in itself is misleading. The definition varies depending on many factors such as which part of the world you are in, what time in history you are referring to, and you can even bring it down to the group that you associate with on a regular basis. I can even go into the Bible and pull out a verse that telling males "to put your seed in the belly of a horror rather than droping in on the ground" (I know there's 1000 other verses contradict that so please don't hit me with them) it does not say anything about being single or being married.
As far as the term marriage goes when did that start. Marriage is not something that nature endorses. There is only one species of animal that mates for life and that is a bird of some form I do not remember. Humans say they mates for life but that is a lie because the divorce rate is so high intimacy outside of what we call marriage runs rampant. There is only one other species of animal that has sex just for the fun of having sex and that is the dolphin I believe. And I have yet to hear of where have sex with just one specific member of the opposite sex and no others.
You said "that the human animal has an aversion to admitting when it is wrong about something". My question to you is very simple. What yardstick are you using to determine right and wrong? is it the same yardstick that everybody else is using
you make a blanket statement about men here, that I cannot ignore. You said "if a man will cheat on his wife he will cheat on you". Can you tell me for sure that your ex-husband is cheating on his bartender girlfriend. I know of many cases where a man had an extra marital affair, ended up marrying that person. They had a good life. I also know of several cases where there was extra marital affairs that continued on into the next relationship. it runs about 50/50.
I will agree with you that a lot of girls get sucked in. Because it makes them feel older, feel better, or they think that they are more understanding. let's face it it makes you feel good about yourself especially if you think you are helping somebody else and that nobody else can help. Unfortunately there is nothing in this world that you or I can do about that. Feelings are strong and deceiving. On a couple of the opinion boards that I visit on a regular basis when I find a young girl in that situation I always advise them to get out until he gets a divorce. Other people give the same exact advice that I do and out of the 200 or 300 young girls that I have given this advice to, not a single one has taken it.
And finally you Ms twinkle
first of all I did not ask for any answers, as far as why women stay in abusive relationships "I know the answers" and I feel very sorry for the women that are in these abusive relationships but I understand why they stay. I stay in this relationship for some of the same reasons
You also said that you cannot come up with one good reason for a person to cheat. Did you answer my question how long can you go without intimacy of any kind.
How can you accuse me of being an abuser? You make a lot of assumptions and I am going to show you where your assumptions are wrong. First of all I am the home maker, I do the laundry, I do the dishes, I keep the house clean, I am the one that has to put up with her 28-year-old son and her 24-year-old son still living in my house. I am hoping that they will move out soon, the but I do not see that happening.
And finally where did I say that I wanted to cheat. I would give it everything that I had to have a relationship even close to the one I had with my late wife.
just wanted to say thanks been there done that understand 100%
what you say makes a lot of good sense. The only thing is I've tried everything that you have suggested and don't misunderstand me they are good suggestions.
The reason that I am staying in this relationship, at least for right now is the same reason that a lot of women stay in abusive relationships. I am fast approaching my breaking point
I like I said earlier. I do not need or am I looking for anyone's permission or approval I was just merely trying to point out why people cheat and I will even go as far as to say 90% of the men that cheat are nothing more than dirt bags, but you have that 10% that are doing it for survival.
Posted: 9/18/2009 6:56:33 AM
|" (...) is it the same yardstick that everybody else is using (...) "|
When it comes to infideilty, certainly.
When it comes to matters of established law, yes.
When it comes to standards of socially accepted values and behaviors, yes again.
There are rules, rvroksgp, and there are exceptions to those rules. I submit to you that any exception you may be able to point out to me is merely proof of that rule's existence.
It's not rocket scince, after all.
Posted: 9/18/2009 8:00:08 AM
|When it comes to infideilty, certainly.|
With the exception of one bird, out of all the species of animals that live in this world where it does nature endorse lifelong mating practices
When it comes to matters of established law, yes.
Just about all 50 states and most of the countries in the world, infidelity is not a reason for divorce
When it comes to standards of socially accepted values and behaviors, yes again
so I take it that you change your yardstick, depending on what social group you happen to be with their are some social groups in this world that except extramarital affairs as the norm
you are right it is not rocket science
Posted: 9/18/2009 8:10:41 AM
|I'm not going to argue your point with you, man (whatever it is) -- keeping in mind that my original post in this thread was a direct response to the OP's query, that is.|
I don't know exactly when or why you entered the discussion, but it's of little concern to me at this point.
I've reviewed your post history and it's pretty clear to me that you've got some kind of an axe to grind. Oh well.
You split hairs.
You pick nits.
By all means, knock yourself out.
My time is more valuable than that, sorry.
Posted: 9/18/2009 8:15:33 AM
|Rules. Laws. Social conventions. These are all abstractions and shortcuts to provide guidance for what usually works, or to encourage certain policies and preferences. |
These things are conveniences, and are sometimes wrong, sometimes misguided, sometimes harmful, but for the most part make it easier for people to co-exist. There are exceptions to all of them, and many are routinely ignored by everyone. (The obvious one is that virtually no-one always or even usually obeys speed limits.) We've also seen many laws changed because they were wrong - e.g., segregation.
Breaking rules, etc., isn't necessarily bad, and usually when you do, there are no consequences to you or others (unless you're caught), unless the rule you break causes direct harm to another.
Posted: 9/18/2009 8:20:03 AM
|My main point was that when people screw up (however one may be inclined to define 'screwing up'), they're allergic to owning up to it.|
There always seems to be an excuse: it's always the fault of someone (something) else.
And I stand by my point.
Posted: 9/21/2009 12:44:07 PM
I tend to think those who put "married, looking for friends" are probably telling the truth.
Just had to say thanks... although I posted a too long description of my situation - it is nice to see one person acknowledge the possibility.
Too many here say they just don't get why a Married person would want a Friend.
Others say they don't understand why have an open marriage - why not just get divorced.
I can answer both in one sentence: Me and my wife fell out of love (at least on her side, she no longer wants intimacy in our relationship) - AND - we have a 4yo child.
So - in the interest of our child, we with to remain as husband/wife in our child's eyes... we behave as a married couple completely with the exception of sex - which a child wouldn't see anyways. At some point in the future, I am sure we will divorce - for me, I'm thinking when I can properly support my child. I was laid-off. This issue is not about paying child-support - it is about me being in a condition where I can be happy with the support I can provide - if forced to pay child support now, I would have to take some lousy job just to pay it - if I can find a job befitting my professional status and get my life secure - then I can more easily support our child in the future. So - for now, we are together.
Sex - sure, as with any guy it is desired... but it is not that important... so I post looking for a friend - hopefully someone I can grow with and when I do divorce - pursue a more intimate relationship. My wife told me to 'find someone else'... but I see no problem enjoying life, doing things together, walks, zoo, dinners, movies as friends without intimacy... would it not make for a longer-lasting relationship if we truly spend time as friends before becoming intimate? And who knows, maybe just stay friends...
I think I am as happy as I can be where I am at for now... just hope to make some friends here. Too bad, although many post for 'Friends' - none I have replied to have come close to really showing interest in making a friend - even women that post as married looking for a friend... I am always optimistic... Have a Great Day!
Posted: 9/21/2009 1:00:52 PM
|Anyone anytime can justify anything; getting others to agree with the justification is asking for absolution. Like one of my mentors used to say, every word of defense is an admission of guilt.|
That said, we are human beings with needs and sometimes get into situations where those needs cannot ever be met. Something has to give eventually. It may not be pretty, but it is human and understandable - sometimes even appropriately justifies sympathy.
Cynicism is rampant on these threads, so even innocent and well-intentioned behavior or proposals meet with harsh criticism from those many who willing to condemn on the basis of speculation. Good luck, and consider the source of comments.
Posted: 12/3/2011 7:12:59 PM
When any one has to justify their actions they often know they have gone aginst spiritual values and against their own conscience.
It is true that two wrongs do not make a right.
It is better for a person to know earlier they are being betrayed by an untrustworthy person.
People often lie to escape responsability of their own unehalthya ctions.
The reason tehy lie is because they learned that being honest can be very painful and often fear people rejecting them or abandoning them if they are honest.
They will often justify their actiosn sying they do not want to hurt the other persons feelings, again justying not being honest with them slef or with other people.
People who lie or live a lie become weaker and even more inept inadequate immature and insecure than they were before.
Yes telling lies means you live in fear.
If a person does not have a conscience they are not healthy or worth knowing any way.
Love and peace to everyone
Posted: 12/3/2011 7:20:24 PM
|i have had several male friends over the years that have been stuck in marriages like the one you describe. personally, i real marriage is one that has sexual intimacy. if a woman cuts a man off like this, then she is pushing her husband away. sure, cheating is wrong, and it certainly can hurt a lot of people, but both parties have responsibility here. if the guy is that unhappy then he should probably leave the marriage regardless of the cost. the child support will not last forever, and he will be happier in the long run if he can have a real relationship with someone who is able to be physically and emotionally available. sometimes the break down in the sexual intimacy isn't simply as cut and dry as the woman not wanting to have sex. often the man is not making an effort to create passion in the marriage. it's a tough situation, but ultimately the couple either makes an effort to fix it or they should break up. period.|
Posted: 12/3/2011 7:23:14 PM
Man has worked very hard for many years, nice house, kids, material possessions, etc, but has no intimacy at home. Chooses to stay in the marriage as he knows the alimony will crush him, she stays home, raises kids, and he will lose half of everything he has worked so hard for. So he seeks intimacy outside the marriage.
I am hearing this so often, as a single person, I ask, why do u stay? The above reply is what I hear.
I absolutely hate admitting this...BUT...I can actually see their point? Any opinions would be appreciated.
Then I guess their (your) decision has been made and I'm not sure why you'd want or need anyone else's opinions. Those of us who are old enough to remember the much vilified feminist movement of the 60's and 70's also remember how many couples were stuck in absolutely miserable marriages. The men felt pressure to be men and meet their responsibilities as husbands and fathers no matter how unhappy they were and the women either had never worked or quit their jobs to stay home with their kids and couldn't afford to leave. It was hell for many people.
Now people have options and choices they didn't in the past and if they choose material things over happiness that's on them. I couldn't live that way and to be honest I don't understand it but I guess to each his own.
Posted: 12/3/2011 7:37:10 PM
|My friend this is where you need to go. itstheremedy|
Posted: 12/3/2011 8:02:41 PM
|Just remember, it's not cheating on you if they never bother coming back to you,|
i.e. "two timing".
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