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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/1/2009 9:25:44 PM | ^^^^ I dont think the discussion focused on cheating as a revenge to a cheater...
there were other points discussed.....the financial, the intimacy deprived spouses, | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/1/2009 10:33:32 PM | hmmm. So, most of the men on here would be perfectly fine with marrying a woman who would decide she was not having sex anymore after a few years? You'd be fine with living without sex indefinately or going through the divorce and losing your kids ... just to be sure you never were so bad as to "cheat"? Interesting....
And most women figure it is just fine for a woman to decide she doesn't want sex ... to deny her husband of any intimacy, yet expect him to be faithful to her ... or make his life hell? Equally interesting.... | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/1/2009 10:45:51 PM | Words like "cheating" are just value judgements which are meaningless to me.
I don't live my life by someone else's code of honor.
Lets say you fall out of love with someone, and you're about to divorce them, then they find out they have cancer, and you have health insurance, I'd have no qualms with stayng married to give them healthcare while going to live with someone else to have real love.
I'm not going to drop a human being's health insurance just to conform to social convention.
Opinions be damned, only my honor code matters. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/1/2009 11:41:43 PM |
I was looking at the entire picture re: losing everthing that has been worked for. I agree, the wife, or should I say other half, works just as hard, 50/50, but in the end, we all know the men end up paying through the nose. It really is a sad thing.
I don't know any such thing. I know there are some states that do seem a tad behind the times, but where I live, men BY NO MEANS pay through the nose. The assets are divided equally, but guess what? Usually, so is the debt. The parent who gets the kids will get CS, but CS would still apply if the man got the kids.
For all those men who whine that they MADE more money during the marriage, so they should get a larger slice of the pie, I remind them that the same law would benefit them if they happened to earn less than the wife. The divorce law does not favour women per se; it favours the lower wage earner in the sense that he/she will get 50-50 and may not have contributed 50-50 in a financial sense. The solution for these men is to only marry women who earn as much as, or more than, they do.
Most of the divorced moms I know are quite poor. I am not having any pity party for divorced men any time soon. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:02:47 AM | well I dont see their point at all; in fact the point is pathetic. It's ok to give up your morals because you'll lose out financially? I've heard it all. No one put a gun to him to get married.
I could imagine telling a child;
"sorry Billy that I screwed that young girl and cheated on your mom, but you see it's ok. I will stay and not lose half of everything I have so you must understand."
This attitude is the very reason people don't know what right and wrong is any more. They justify everything they do; they are always the victim and never in the wrong. Then we wonder why their kids are so messed up.
When you have kid's its not about you any more. They are the focus; and one of the most damaging things is to be a kid in a loveless marriage.
Sorry but in my family right and wrong isn't hard to see. If you cheat, you are in the wrong. End of story. If you don't want to lose half of what you own, choose a better partner, or just date and wear protection.
NO CHEATERS EVER | |
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776877
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Joined: 10/13/2007
Msg: 81 | |
| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:21:26 AM | Its funny but this point has been made a couple of times already and it keeps getting ignored by both men and women....I wonder why?
'hmmm. So, most of the men on here would be perfectly fine with marrying a woman who would decide she was not having sex anymore after a few years? You'd be fine with living without sex indefinately or going through the divorce and losing your kids ... just to be sure you never were so bad as to "cheat"? Interesting....
And most women figure it is just fine for a woman to decide she doesn't want sex ... to deny her husband of any intimacy, yet expect him to be faithful to her ... or make his life hell? Equally interesting....'
I think its because the 'pure-as-driven-snow' types of guys can ALWAYS 'say' they won't cheat and that other guys are dirty and immoral, it makes them look and sound good. Can a woman ever be in the wrong in these situations? If a woman decides she doesn't want to have sexual relations with her husband anymore but still expects him to be faithful to her ......thats OK/acceptable/justified(for whatever reason she deems fit)? Will most folk automatically side with her and say that its fine and that she 'had' to have a reason/s for doing it? Every coin has two sides. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:45:50 AM | | There is no justification! only a lack of communication, compromise and honesty! I see absolutly NO reason to cheat if you love someone. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 2:06:26 AM | I have been on pof for only acouple weeks and had to change my settings due to married guys contacting me. And ya... in their opening letter to me..which I delete and never respond to btw....its all about that kinda justification. No sex, wife got fat, dont wanna lose this or that.
What needs to happen is for people to take care of their relationships and marriages so they dont end up in those kinda situations.
Bottom line..its justification. Not cool. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 2:35:00 AM | | Hi just new to this site and read your post. I think it is a very interesting topic of discussion, but may I also say that I have noticed that alot of the replys have been about women being cheated on by their man. I believe it is a 50/50 situation. Women are as big a cheaters as men these days, I dunno why that is but maybe it is with years of men doing it to women so woman has decided to get their own back and catch up with the men. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 3:34:15 AM | ^^^ maybe it has to do with the fact women are working out of the house more now.
We feel we earn that independence and the access to meeting people at work, at lunch, etc and then we are exposed to same temptations men were in the times when mostly men went out and worked.
I think men cheat with women (for the most part)...so women cheat as well.
Readyornot...re yr below message
Yes i'm openminded. To me its more about being fair, I need to see what's fair. as you stated....society demands faithfulness, but overlooks deprivation some spouses ( not only men) are expected to put up with graciously and silently. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 3:59:24 AM | One poster brought up the marriage vows......but forgot "to have and to hold"........
so when one spouse refuses to hold the other............do you see what I am getting at?
Isn't that the first violation of the vows, before the cheating?
If a wife refuses to sleep with her husband, how will "communication" help?
What part of "I won't sleep with you" do you not understand?
Why is it that forum posters agree that one spouse should not control the other, yet say that one spouse demanding a sexless life of the other is okay?
and by the way, rosiaq, I am totally impressed with your openmindedness! | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 5:11:37 AM |
Ebay has forums? I can't imagine even knowing that. Let alone knowing them well enough to know that another forum was "worse" than them. Now that's the best laugh I've had all day!
No funnier than a dating site having a poetry forum which is one of the best on the internets. . . .
As for OPie, and the opie question ~~ I've known plenty of peeps in my life that didn't and don't have a clue as to what it takes to make a relationship work. Bridzillas who think it's all done and set in stone on THE day. Others who have lied to get there (alcoholics, con wo/men, sociopaths, the purely lazy). I've seen men carry the load, and I've seen women carry the load of making it work. At some point the relationship simply dies. In the best of all possible worlds perhaps, it's ended *legally* before either goes elsewhere for aid and comfort. But I've seen, pretty equally, men make life hell for their wives, and wives make life hell for their husbands.
I'm not going to judge. Not my job. The Universe had indicated that we're not even competent to do so. I believe that. So I'll just let the mills of the gods' grind away, slowly and thoroughly. . . .
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 5:12:51 AM | | The forsaking all others part of the marriage vow seems to not be taken seriously by many. If a person gains weight that seems to justify cheating to a lot of people (women might lose interest if husband gains weight, but since I date men I hear about how women gain weight and let themselves go and look older,etc...seems to be a silly idea for someone to expect a spouse to look the same at 50 as they did at 25 to me.) My brother's wife has gained a lot of weight since they married 8 years ago, and when people see pics of my family 99 percent of the people who view them ask if she was large when they got married and when I say no most say she should feel fortunate because most men they know would either be having an affair or would have left her her since she gained weight. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 5:19:17 AM | Here's the rule..Once you are in a committed relationship, you do not seek intimacy or sex from another person, ever!
This goes for men and women, whether you are married or in a committed dating relationship, doesn't matter. You just never do it!
Follow that as a hard and fast rule, and there will be no problems.
Beth | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 5:52:00 AM |
A male friend of mine has been totally 'cut off' for the last two or three years and yet she has had affairs here and there but he refuses to himself, he wants to keep things together for the kids sake. Another friend came home from work one day and his wife told him she was leaving him that second to go with a guy who she'd been having an affair with for over a year or more. Both of these guys would saw their legs off with a rusty spoon for their kids but the woman in both the cases I'm familiar with have far less involvement to put it kindly.
I can already hear the rumble of the defences being kicked up...'they must have done something to make the woman leave them....etc.', well if thats the case then perhaps the woman referred to in the original post has some responsibility too, is it just ALWAYS the guys fault? I don't think so. I'm not basing all my opinion on just a couple of friends but can you honestly believe that EVERYTHING can be put at the doorstep of just one partner?
What you describe has just switched the genders from the OP and I don't think I implied that men are the only ones that do things like this, just answered what the OP asked. I think unfortunately there are early signs that a marriage needs help, counseling, reading about different things that couples can do to increase intimacy, etc.
People are essentially lazy. If they marry fairly young, they don't know that nursing the little wounds is stupid or they put up with behavior they shouldn't, creating a dynamic that will continue to erode the relationship. Figuring out how to get back to the time when you really loved and liked the person can be difficult and many people just cannot be bothered, thinking that somehow magically the problems will solve themselves. As another noted, the new relationship that allows them emotional attachment without the quagmire is easy, and we like to press the easy button.
I think a lot of people are miserable in their relationships but they expect their partners to read their minds and do what they want them to do rather than sit down and say, I am miserable, we need to fix this so we can live what we promised with each other when we married. The promise was not to live forever in misery, but to walk next to each other sharing the joys and sorrows of life. Emotional needs are not met but instead of talking one or both sits petulantly in the proverbial corner, for either party to move beyond this dysfunctional behavior to taking a walk on the relationship whether in the guise of the affair or actually walking out the door is wrong. But you cannot prevent people from doing things that are wrong, just try to choose people that have the same level of commitment. How we gauge that? Meh.
You can look at their history, how they relate to family, how family relates to each other. There aren't guarantees, the only thing you can do is be attentive yourself and try to steer things in the right direction. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 6:02:35 AM |
hmmm. So, most of the men on here would be perfectly fine with marrying a woman who would decide she was not having sex anymore after a few years? You'd be fine with living without sex indefinately or going through the divorce and losing your kids ... just to be sure you never were so bad as to "cheat"? Interesting....
And most women figure it is just fine for a woman to decide she doesn't want sex ... to deny her husband of any intimacy, yet expect him to be faithful to her ... or make his life hell? Equally interesting....'
I don't know a single woman who has "denied" her man sex unless it was because she was emotionally hurt by him and couldn't bring herself to be that intimate with a person that was hurting her. This seems to be something that men don't get. I know there are some women and probably men that use sex as a weapon, I don't know any of them. This is no different from stereotyping an entire race because one person or a few happens to be a criminal, or have kids indiscriminately, or beat their wives.
And yes, if you cannot get the situation resolved, you either deal with the no sex or you get divorced because that is what you signed up for, whether the person not getting any is male or female.
I don't also understand the losing your kids. Most people who work don't spend that much time with their kids, period. If you want a quality relationship with your kids you can have one even if you don't live in the same house. I think my relationship with my kids would be better, at least for me, if I didn't have to be the bad guy 24/7, if I could just spend time with them and not drag them out of bed every day and rag on them for not doing this and not doing that. Most courts lean toward joint custody when the parents are geographically proximate and certainly if this is an issue for you, you can find a house or apartment that is close to where your children live.
People that want to think the affair is the magical panacea for their b.s. are lazy whiners. I didn't have sex for around two years at the end of my marriage because I was not going to continue sleeping with someone who treated me like crap every single day, marriage doesn't mean constantly putting yourself in a situation that emotionally is not much different than being raped. He was told to get counseling or we weren't staying married and I decided that until he started living up to his marriage vows of honoring and cherishing or at least not being a pure D azzhole, I didn't have to stand up to mine. I still cleaned his house, fed him, did his laundry, I didn't need to be his ho on top of that.
If that makes me an uber criminal deserving of his having an affair I can live with that and honestly at that point, if he had one I didn't care. Might have made him more pleasant to be around. I had to emotionally detach in order to save my sanity. Guess what, I probably missed the sex too but wasn't willing to demean myself to get it inside or outside the marriage. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 6:25:41 AM | Cause it is grow up time and many still have their highschool brains in an adult body...
If you are not attracted to your spouse and you are not getting your passion on together .. and that takes great communication which can be learned.. then the adult thing is to leave... leaving is what passionate people do they don't hang on like residual will knots.. it is all about self respect.. unfortunately if you don't respect yourself chances are good that your partner won't either ..
Our new economic downslide will prove alot of marriages will dissolve as many, many unhappy people are married for money and because that won't glue it ( which is not a good marriage) then at least the pool will get filled with some reasonably decent men.. at least I am hoping ...
One other thing I have noticed since I have been doing more crowd activities versus being out in the boonies living in my own solitude is how many people are extremely overweight and unhealthy at my age... At yesterdays Blue's concert I went to I couldn't believe how many people are overweight and miserable ..too slim, unhealthy and miserable.. you can spot the people who take care of their health and they are easy to see..... health is the ticket to being in a great relationship.. once you have a good relationship with you it affects others.. . Now if you don't appreciate your body and nurture your health it will erode any ability to feel attractive .... and that is one of the biggest issues I see.. mood swings are caused by imbalanced hormones and insulin changes so it will erode your life via behaviours internally .. beauty is from the inside out, if molecules are looked after the rest will take care of itself .. what we feed our minds will enhance every aspect of our lives .. so in essence an action plan of taking health of the one .. will only improve everything around ...
It really burns my arse to see so many unhealthy people as dating and mating is about attraction and feeling deep passion for your partner is vital to the longevity of a relationship... it would be alot easier to find a mate if everyone was in better physical health .. as health is the sexiest way to be alive in your own body. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 6:28:59 AM | I don't know a single woman who has "denied" her man sex unless it was because she was emotionally hurt by him and couldn't bring herself to be that intimate with a person that was hurting her
And yes, if you cannot get the situation resolved, you either deal with the no sex or you get divorced because that is what you signed up for, whether the person not getting any is male or female.
then should the person who cannot deal with being intimate with the person that is hurting her ...not either learn to deal with living up to her marital vows and find a way to be intimate with him ...or leave
if you cannot get the situation resolved, you either deal with HAVING sex or you get divorced because that is what you signed up for,
any argument used for a person remaining faithful in a non functional relationship.....works just as good for any person remaining intimate in a non functional relationship
denying intimacy is a crime to the marriage just as bad as getting it somewhere else ....
there is no justification in denying sex or cheating either ....if its not working and you cant fix it just get out /divorced
my take ...if i could not stand anyone i was living with so much as I never wanted to have sex with them ..why the hell would i care if they got some somewhere else
if you dont want him what is him cheating going to hurt ????YOUR PRIDE ..thats the only answer i can come up with
when I saw that my first marriage was not going to work .I was tickled when i found out she had a lover ..it made the divorce go much better..i now had bargaining power | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 6:32:17 AM | .
justwantone72;
How is this even possible?
Please don't turn away from marriage because of my story. But a couple of words of warning; If you learn from my experience, I would be glad that some good came from it for somebody.
If you or your spouse decide on divorce -
~ Make sure ABSOLUTELY certain that the divorce agreement is studied thoruoghly by your attorney.......My husband signed what she put in front of him because she said she'd make sure his (over 18) daughter woud never speak to him again. (In the long run that happened anyway; we haven't seen her or our three granchilderen in more than seven years.)
I have absolutely zero comprehension of alimony. Why couldn't she get a job? Why is it a life long thing?
Actually she did get a job eventually, but for the first three years, she got double what i already said she got. It was called "reabilitative," and he was required to keep her as benificiary of his life insurance for that period (I guess so if he worked himself to death, she would still be provided for. Life long is because that was the way the agreement was written.
Three times we have tried to get the terms changed;
Once when the airline where both my husand and I worked shut operations due to a strike and eventually went out of business (by the way; when that happened, we both lost our retirements; both the ones the company provided as well as the one's , once when we we're both paid into with no contribution from the company. We started ove rwith no retirement or savings in 1989. In all probablity neither of us will ever be able to retire.)
Once when another airline lost a major contract and had to lay everyone but the core executives off, and susequently weut of business,
And again when he and I lost seperate jobs in this latest depression. Airlines have been hit particularly hard. (we finally had managed to get jobs in different companies in an effort to keep at leas tone of us working at all times) I've been out of work for 7 months and his company pays him sporatically, less than half what he was first offered as Director, and cancelled their health insurance as a cost savings tactic.
In all thse cases, the coutrs have refused to make any changes or give us any relief, and even our lawyers have said, "You are well and truely f*cked. The agreement is iron-clad.
Are the laws different in the USA? My jaw literally dropped wide open while reading this. Please educate me!
The only ways the alimony will end is if she dies, remarries. If we could proove she was living with someone and he was providing her with support, we MIGHT get relief, but we can't afford to hire private investigators, especially now that she lives 2,000 miles away. And even then. it is not a certainty that we could get the agreement set aside.
Again, this is not a reason never to marry, but you need to pretect yourself. It's not hard-boild, or distrustful, just common sense. No one can predict what can happen in the futrue.
~ Make sure you establish own credit that will not be affected by his.
~ Make sure you have your own retirement accounts, again, that are not reliant on his. ~ If you have property/possetions you value that were yours before the marriage, get a pre-nuptual agreement.
~ In FLorida, we have a community property law that states that ALL assets of a couple are belong to both spouses unless there is a prior written agreemnet
! Make sure you have a will that states on your death your wishes on you portion of the joint estate. People act in awful, greedy ways when inheritances are involved.
I am never getting married... WOW....I am very scared....
Again Dont' turn away from the possibility of marriage. Just be careful.
Note; this is probably more than you needed to know, but sometimes i use these forums to "vent." It can be quite cathartic, and may in fact help someone else.
Namaste.
Ginny
 
. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 6:44:05 AM | Cause it is grow up time and many still have their highschool brains in an adult body...
If you are not attracted to your spouse and you are not getting your passion on together .. and that takes great communication which can be learned.. then the adult thing is to leave... leaving is what passionate people do they don't hang on like residual will knots.. it is all about self respect.. unfortunately if you don't respect yourself chances are good that your partner won't either ..
Our new economic downslide will prove alot of marriages will dissolve as many, many unhappy people are married for money and because that won't glue it ( which is not a good marriage) then at least the pool will get filled with some reasonably decent men.. at least I am hoping ...
One other thing I have noticed since I have been doing more crowd activities versus being out in the boonies living in my own solitude is how many people are extremely overweight and unhealthy at my age... At yesterdays Blue's concert I went to I couldn't believe how many people are overweight and miserable ..too slim, unhealthy and miserable.. you can spot the people who take care of their health and they are easy to see..... health is the ticket to being in a great relationship.. once you have a good relationship with you it affects others.. . Now if you don't appreciate your body and nurture your health it will erode any ability to feel attractive .... and that is one of the biggest issues I see.. mood swings are caused by imbalanced hormones and insulin changes so it will erode your life via behaviours internally .. beauty is from the inside out, if molecules are looked after the rest will take care of itself .. what we feed our minds will enhance every aspect of our lives .. so in essence an action plan of taking health of the one .. will only improve everything around ...
It really burns my arse to see so many unhealthy people as dating and mating is about attraction and feeling deep passion for your partner is vital to the longevity of a relationship... it would be alot easier to find a mate if everyone was in better physical health .. as health is the sexiest way to be alive in your own body. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:04:15 AM | It always amazes me how someone whom is so miserable,(the married man) reaches out to someone younger, and single. MMMMMMMMMM!!!! I wonder why?
I just can't feel sorry for anyone that whines, and cries,,no more lovin in my house
My first question,,what did you do to stop it?
When others confide in such private matters, to a person of the opposite sex, younger, and attractive, there is always an underlying motive. Don't fall for the Players utlimate revenge. It is thier problem,,let them deal with it..Or better yet,,ask the spouse about it. Now wouldn't that be fun>>>>
Lbiker
IN CHEATERS....THERE ARE NO RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:21:56 AM |
It always amazes me how someone whom is so miserable,(the married man) reaches out to someone younger, and single. MMMMMMMMMM!!!! I wonder why?
the only thing that amazes me is when a man cheats and plays the victim card it is met with scorn for him
but when the woman cheats and plays the victim card she is met with the opinion that her husband caused her to cheat
not even a guys friends will buy the victim card when a guy friend cheats ...but you can bet that when a woman's friends find out she is cheating ..they buy the victim card ..hook line and sinker ....dont know how many times I have heard a woman stick up for one of her cheating friends ..this is almost universal ..and it is as disgusting a double standard as any perpetrated against women
i have even known several guys to drop their friends because they cheated and they dont want to be associated with such behavior
never even heard a woman put a woman friend down because she was cheating ...she always had a reason/justification | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:25:53 AM | lbiker,
Why do you assume the woman they look for or approach is younger and prettier?? That is not true. Lots of men just look for a good woman that gives them the closeness they are denied.
Some do get young gf's, but mostly they get women their age with similar life experience.
smellsealsthedeal,
....what's up with you reposting yr comment like 4 times....??? | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:32:11 AM |
i have even known several guys to drop their friends because they cheated and they dont want to be associated with such behavior
never even heard a woman put a woman friend down because she was cheating ...she always had a reason/justification
Strange. My experience has been different, in that some men and women enable their friends to cheat, make excuses for them, and some don't. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:32:23 AM | I was told by a friend who I found out was cheating (because I ran into him and this chick) said he goes for the young ones to feel young and they are more energetic in bed.
He said he was fulfilling a need that he wasn't getting. Then a couple of weeks later, he said to me it wasn't what he wanted. | |
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