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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 4:20:05 PM |
Women are content with the security that a marraige gives them and all too often focus their attention on children and most men can't handle this for too long or not at all.
Nope, as one who was in a 'til death do us part marriage, and one who has gossiped with lots of women in good marriages, I can assure you, pure, wild, uninhibited, abandoned sex is an intregal part of a solid marriage. Nothing in the world like it to put the sparkle back in your eye. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 4:24:41 PM | Considering the opinions of both men and women regarding all the frustrations of being married.
Why does anyone think being marriage is ever a good idea?
How can you stand before God and your community, and make a vow that you will NEVER EVER EVER be with anybody else?
Doesn't that sound a little uh...disingenuous?
Does anyone nowadays actually BELIEVE that???
Marriage is essentially a financial agreement. It says "everything we all make is ours" which is good for the lower-earner (usually women) and bad for the high-earner (usually men.)
It can take months and years to dissolve the marriage, during which time any sex by any party could be considered "cheating."
Of course I want "real love" and so do most people, but it seems to me that marriage is the OBSTACLE to real love rather than its catalyst.
If you don't love someone anymore, all it should take is the words to SAY SO, then you can go love who you want and theres no cheating.
But with marriage there's umpteen months of court deliberations, financial hardship, etc before either party can MOVE ON. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 4:37:47 PM | "It's obvious that we can't be attracted to the same person forever but men and women see sex in totally different ways. Most men do not need an emotional connection for sex yet it is how most men can and do express their love."
Spider
I can't imagine having sex with someone I didn't care about.
Just that men get that "emotional connection" super quick, like I can look at a woman, not even exchange conversation and be thinking, "Wow look at her, she looks so sad, looks like she's had a hard life, if only I could take her in my arms and make the pain go away..."
That's pretty much "guy thinking." For me personally there's always a deep sort of empathy involved in sex.
Whereas I think for women they're not into empathy, they want an emotional COMMITTMENT that you will not only take them into your arms NOW but keep them there indefinitely, and that you will make their well-being one of your top priorities.
This manifests itself as legal and financial constructs to keep the man PAYING HER because it represents the continuation of COMMITTMENT on his part.
I think on a subconscious level many women CHOOSE to make less money, because these legal and financial constructs BENEFIT the lower-earner, and thus represent the COMMITTMENT that she wanted from him from day 1.
In other words if she makes less money, he is FORCED to action his committment.
Like the example of the doctor who offered a 1 time lump sum 500k vs monthly payments.
Of course she'll take the monthly because it forces him to remain in her life and keep his committment to her. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 4:50:49 PM | In my humble opinion, cheating isn't "justifiable"...that said
I have never cheated in a relationship. I am cut from the faithful cloth. For me, it would be going against the very grain of my character. I couldn't look at my own reflection in the mirror. I have been on the cheated on side of the fence. And frankly, it blows. You put your trust in another person and they break it. It hurts, it rips right into your soul to be in that position.
And yet, yet...I accept that, for some people, that is the cloth that THEY are cut from. And who am I to judge them? People cheat for all kinds of reasons. Some good, some bad. But what makes it wrong is when they paint the picture of a faithful lover, which is in reality a lie. To me, it wasn't being cheated on that hurt so much...it was being lied to. Innecessarily lied to. I am the kind of person who is very easy going. If I am with someone that needs more than what I have to offer then so be it, but don't lie to me and sneak around behind my back. See, that is the bad side of unfaithful. It turns a person that you respect into someone that you can't, because they don't respect you enough to be honest.
I don't think being a serial cheater makes someone a terrible person. I don't think that the inability to be faithful makes them weak. I think that it's the dishonesty that most people employ in the process of cheating which makes them less of a human being than they are likely capable of being. It shows that they also have little respect for themselves. In my eyes, whatever it is that you're going to do, stand up and do it honestly and openly. Don't sneak around in the back alleys and hang your head down so you won't have to face the music. You have to be able to look your own reflection in the mirror. And if you can't, then you have stepped over the boundaries and into the realm of dishonesty. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 6:32:50 PM | respited*heart*
You wrote
"Very immature thinking and truly sad stuff when people think there is justification for it"
Why don't you learn how to read before you label me. I NEVER EVER stated cheating was justifiable.
Understanding something does NOT mean I believe it to be moral, acceptable or justifiable. It simple means I can 'relate' to the rational behind the behaviour. I used a hypothetical man as am speaking as a woman. The gender can go either way.
God, the one thing I despise about forums, people labelling and misreading the original post.
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:10:00 PM | | I am not into cheating. I have a 1 track mind. I rather both parties agree to a non-monogamous relationship. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:34:59 PM | my exes excuse for cheating??? he got drunk and didnt know what he was doing yet she called him up and invited him down all she wanted was to get laid. She knew he was with someone but didnt care.
No excuse imo is good enough for cheating because more than just yourself to think about its going to hurt the one you claim to love and then the marriage will end | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 9:40:33 PM | Hey deer dog1..Sorry dude..but women who cheat are just as bad as men that cheat..No I don't cover for them..In fact if they confide in me..they get the opportunity to call the husband first..Or I will..Your assumtion of my comment only pertaining to this forum was incorrect..
Rosia G..my statement was about this forum thread..Not talking about the rest of the world..just this thread..Ya know the story that started this >>>>OK?????
Lbiker | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 11:28:40 PM | There is never a way to justify cheating. Just like it's never right to blame the person your bf/gf cheated with.
"She knew he was with somebody"
There's no point in having any animosity towards the other other person. In fact you should probably thank them and give them a gift certificate or something, they just showed you that the perfect person you are with isn't worth the crap on the bottom of your shoe.
If you have a good enough reason to cheat you have a good enough reason to break up. I hear married people say they can't divorce because they will loose too much money, either the guy having to pay or the woman fearing not being able to be supported (For the ones that stay because they need to be supported, you know like 3 kids that are not his, no education and minimum wage job at best)
For those who fear losing too much I guess "stuff" and money is more important than your happiness, kinda predicts that cheating will be morally acceptable to you.
For those that need to be supported you have failed lifes number one rule for survival. Always make sure you are self sufficient, no matter how much your spouse makes. You don't have to work but make sure you always have credientials to be able to. If you are not in love anymore, or even if you are get your shit together and get out of the relationship/marriage. Then go bang who you like, do it right on his front lawn if you want, just don't cheat.
The biggest red flag that I have no compromise for (execpt for age, pretty much everybody does stupid crap they don't do anymore when they're in their teens/early twenties) is cheating. If a girl I'm dating has ever cheated on an ex, it's over and done with right then. I lose the attraction as soon as I know that they do it and I lose all respect as well.
So to recap;
1. Cheating - always bad, never do it, break-up first
2. The other man/woman - Don't get mad at them, they're not the one that hurt you
3. Always remain in control of your own destiny, don't ever be totally dependant on someone else. Always have a back up plan.
If you're not living up to those 3 tidbits of wisdom, take not and try to. Life will become much better for. (Karma)
46&2 | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 1:05:32 AM | Lbiker,
Got you, but nowhere in OP its states they go with young and attractive....they just mention they dont leave because of financial implication and that he seeks intimacy elsewhere. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 2:00:35 AM |
....if they confide in me..they get the opportunity to call the husband first..Or I will
lbiker, I missed the part where you were awarded the divine right to interfere in other people's marriages. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 4:49:10 AM |
Hey deer dog1..Sorry dude..but women who cheat are just as bad as men that cheat..No I don't cover for them..In fact if they confide in me..they get the opportunity to call the husband first..Or I will..Your assumtion of my comment only pertaining to this forum was incorrect..
lbiker No If I somehow implicated that you personally justified cheating by women over men ...then it is I who apologize...I never meant to say anyone in particular did this ..I was just pointing out an attitude I see ..if by me quoting you you thought i was accusing you ..that was not my intent ..I just feel that it has become an subconscious mind set among women ...always blaming the man | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 7:13:50 AM | Tokolosh 1
Whenever you have been cheated on..lied to, brutalized, and had as many years as I did trying to peace together a rough marriage. You learn that honesty is the only way to heal. If you want to protect others from being honest with themselves,,be a codependent..your choice. But anyone who knows me,,talks to me,,knows that I would do the same for them.
So yes honesty, integrity, compassion, understanding,,does allow me to tell the truth to the other person involved,,and the cheater knows it..
Your life and your desicions are your choice..
So to me it is a divine right..
Lbiker | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 7:42:07 AM | lbiker
<div class="quote">So to me it is a divine right
Adults need to sort their own problems out. Your own experiences do NOT give you any automatic right to intervene in 2 other people's union. You don't know what really goes on behind their closed doors, you don't know what the effect on their family unit (incl children) would be if you went charging in with that kind of destructive news, and you have no right to take it upon yourself to inflict that sort of pain if you're not even affected by it. Who appointed you God? | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 8:47:43 AM |
Whenever you have been cheated on..lied to, brutalized, and had as many years as I did trying to peace together a rough marriage.
In fact if they confide in me..they get the opportunity to call the husband first..Or I will..
Honestly, this sounds more like you taking the opportunity to pusnish someone for what you endured. I envision you grabbing some erring husband by the ear and dragging him over to his wife, standing there with hands on hips and glint in eyes while he "confesses". Not a pretty picture.
What your claimed "integrity and compassion" fails to understand is that unless the spouse is ready to hear the truth, you aren't doing them any favors. They're more likely to kill the messenger than welcome them. When they're ready to know or to accept that their relationship is in serious trouble, they will. Forcing that on them isn't your job.
If a spouse asked me, directly, and I knew, I'd tell the truth. I wouldn't volunteer it; not my place. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 9:02:22 AM |
And yes, if you cannot get the situation resolved, you either deal with the no sex or you get divorced because that is what you signed up for, whether the person not getting any is male or female. then should the person who cannot deal with being intimate with the person that is hurting her ...not either learn to deal with living up to her marital vows and find a way to be intimate with him ...or leave if you cannot get the situation resolved, you either deal with HAVING sex or you get divorced because that is what you signed up for,
Um, I think you reiterated my point. I think most women are still intimate with their hubands or vice versa until it gets to the point that they have been trying to do the intimacy in the other areas of the relationship, they have been dying one by one, sex is probably the last thing to go. Then yes, it is time to get out.
Deer, you may be the type of person to always see someone as withholding rather than something I really cannot find the right word for. After an extremely vicious verbal attack on myself and my then 11-year-old daughter, I told him that the marriage would be over if he failed to get counseling. I wasn't withholding waiting for the trip to the counselor or until an improvement was made in behavior that was intolerable and highly damaging to my children, I just simply couldn't bring myself to sleep with someone who Margo described in another thread, had 100% contempt for me as a person. Maybe some people can continue to have sex under those conditions, I don't know many people that would or should. By your definition I should have walked out the door that day but I wanted to provide him in opportunity to do what he needs to do, for the kids and himself. Nearly seven years later, he is content being miserable. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 9:21:13 AM | post 123
IMO you cannot clean up the bad act(cheating) by doing good deeds like taking care of you while youre in vegetative states.
Its the husband obligations, responsibilties to take good care of you.
Its just like saying that Im a good husband and a good provider but I need to cheat on you because I want to satisfy my needs.
Its because one partner cannot give intimacy anymore..one has to find it else where.
That's a double blow in the part of someone who is in disabilities.
Where's the respect,love,symphaty of people towards your behalf who cannot perform physical intimacy anymore?
For me cheating is cheating no matter how you want to justify it.
I should say If I couldnt handle my responsibilities anymore of taking care of someone who is in vegetitive states, ill walk out in the marriage rather than to cheat with them.
I rather abandon/give up my marriage than to cheat while im still married.It sounds like a selfish act but thats all I can think of.
In that case,I could understand his/her part and would willing to let go of them than slap on my face that they need to cheat because I no longer capable to give their needs.
Families or institutions will take care of you should your partner leave . | |
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~Music
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Joined: 7/4/2008
Msg: 143 | |
| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 9:36:34 AM | | Op, let's hope that before you fall for this old story that you first empathize the point of the wife working a fulltime job, coming home to care for the kids, cleaning, cooking meals, has little intimacy too because one or both is just too dang-ed tired YET still she chooses not to be a philanderer. Yep, I was one of those women. Twice. Shoe fits both feet... either commitment fits or it don't. :89: | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 9:43:52 AM | | Nothing justifies Cheating, Cheating is cheating no black, white or gray about it. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 9:44:32 AM | I started cheating on my wife after she started beating me and later when she theatened me with stealing my son away to England...which is much easier to do than many think.
First and foremost I'm an old school gentleman. To this day, despite being divorced, I still open her car door and teach my son to respect and love his mother like a good boy should. I always treated her like a lady, until she stopped acting like one. I also don't believe in divorce where young children are concerned so I honestly felt that all of this, coupled with the stringent "rationing" of sex in our marriage meant that I had no other recourse. It was go against my values regarding divorce and lose at least 50% access to my son...or quietly go out and get taken care of randomly and come home ready to meet her half way when she was ready...after some counselling or something.
She never did...and in fact left me for someone else...or should I say found someone else and pushed me out the door as only a woman you're madly in love with can do...by making it seem like it was your idea in the first place.
I will likely never marry again after this but hope to one day meet the right woman for me where this type of natural defensive behaviour just doesn't happen. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 9:59:45 AM | CHEATING. there is no justification of the act. it is what it is no matter the reason. if you think that by going outside the circle of trust and love it somehow makes it easier or better
for the relationship, it doesn't. we all have our excuses for it, but, the fact still remains, CHEATING IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE WRONG! | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 10:19:49 AM | stealing is just a word when the comet hits and your kids are hungry. This belief in absoloutes with regards to this subject is a gross oversimplification and injustice to those of us who've been through hell with someone who blackmailed us with sex...or the lack thereof. My belief is that the sacred circle of trust is often broken by the other person before someone decides to go cheat to deal with it.
This is the part everyone seems to miss. How many guys do we men know...all with the same story..."we used to do it all the time....she was insatiable...we got married and two years later we have "married sex" maybe once a week....
And yet I haven't been able to find one woman to first of all acknowledge this phenomenom, or to be able to explain it from their point of view.
I believe whole heartedly that I had every right to cheat on my wife for doing what she was doing. Period. She reaped what she sowed...and she did so on purpose...knowing full well the consequences. She wanted me to cheat because it's easier to get out of a marriage with a "cheater" than it is to suck it up, be an adult and admit you're in love with someone else but can't seem to make the break that is your responsibility to make. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 3:59:20 PM | I feel that men and women are not really compatible species, aside from the sexual aspect.
I have no married friends left. All the weddings I was a part of in my 20's, they are all divorced, but one couple who have decided to be in an open marriage and remain in the same household for the kids. Could I ever do that? Are you kidding me? Altho, one never knows until they themselves are living it.
Sad. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 5:04:43 PM |
This belief in absolutes with regards to this subject is a gross oversimplification.... ^^^I agree. This is a subject where people have much more intimate knowledge of than is indicated by the number of posts to this thread---I'm absolutely certain of it. I find it hard to be hard line personally on something like this. I'm simply not into judging people about these types of things....and yes, I've also been cheated on. In my own case I harbor no longstanding animosity regarding what happened to me. I was as culpable in a different way. I have never been a cheater but I know my share of them and while I'm not complicit in defending their behavior, I think understanding has to be more around what is happening individually in a situation and not simply some visceral fixed, across-the-board, gut reaction. jmo. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 5:49:30 PM | There is never a way to justify cheating. Just like it's never right to blame the person your bf/gf cheated with.
"She knew he was with somebody"
There's no point in having any animosity towards the other other person. In fact you should probably thank them and give them a gift certificate or something, they just showed you that the perfect person you are with isn't worth the crap on the bottom of your shoe.
I never looked at it this way - thank you.
I have never met a woman that did not give her husband her all and still got cheated
on - I agree some women do not perform thier wifely duties but what about the
women who have sex every night, take care of the house and bills and take care
of thier man - what about those woman - what is that Mans excuse? Is he a different
breed of man - Is he just selfish to hurt her or is it something in his brain that
keeps him from keeping his dick in his pants?
Nothing in this world justifies cheating. Its hurtful - it messes with your self esteem,
self worth and craps up your life.
Get out of the marriage or relationship and take your necessary losses.
Cheating is just a poor excuse for the man/woman to GET BACK at the person
instead of either leaving or working it out because you dont want to lose your stuff.
You still lose your stuff so its a no win situation all the way around. | |
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