| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/4/2009 11:08:16 PM | | My Thoughts are a wife should not with hold sex from her husband because Its one of her duties as a wife and to keep the husband happy and Keep him from cheating or thinking about other women. When A women makes the Man Happy the Man makes you Happy. Unless you get a total Douche Bag who had no emotions of sense. But that's why Character should come in play before you ever think about marrying someone. Cause without Good Character would be a very sucky Marriage and If A women who is not willing to please her husband and denies her husband without a GOOD Reason shouldn't be married in the first place. Just my thoughts on that | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/5/2009 6:45:26 AM | Munkeeman
You are the hypothical man now! Prime example...
Why are u not leaving? the kids? u cant have them taken away from you, its called court..kids KNOW whn their parents are unhappy and u are molding those little minds into future adults.
Its healthier all around for u not to be there. Kids would rather be from a broken home that live in one. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/5/2009 6:55:26 AM | | packagedeal, I do understand what you're saying. However, it assumes that both people are willing to put in the work needed, and if that's not the case, it sounds like you're staying because leaving is hard. (Giving up all hope is hard - I know, I've been there and deluded myself for years that she would make some effort to change things.) And that's why some people cheat - it's easier that leaving, it preserves what they see as the good parts of the relationship, and they hope they'll get away with the cheating (some do, so many think the risk is worthwhile). I didn't resort to cheating, but I did stay longer than I should have. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/5/2009 7:21:40 AM |
Its healthier all around for u not to be there. Kids would rather be from a broken home that live in one.
I believed this when I was married and it was part of the reason I decided to leave my ex - the kids would be better off. Now I am not so sure I was right.
If the parents are fighting and/or violent, then yes - it is better to separate. But if the parents are able to get along, treat each other with respect and put the marriage and family ahead of their own personal desires, that may well be a better lesson for the kids.
And, kids don't always "know" when the parents are unhappy - mostly, kids are pretty self-involved and tend to take their parents for granted. They may be aware, at some level, that their parents are not all lovey-dovey, but if there's no ongoing serious conflict, they are more likely to just figure that's the way things are and it's normal and acceptable.
JMO | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/5/2009 7:47:00 AM |
It's a difficult position to be in. Morally you know it's wrong. The idea of marriage is that you have a best friend, soul mate, intimate lover, etc, etc to rely on in your life. What happens when one of them decides not to be intimate any more? This is my situation at the moment. I have tried many times and many different ideas. We've done counselling to no avail. I am here because we have 2 beautiful children together that I cannot fathom to be apart from as they are my life. Because I am in this less than ideal situation and I have a partner that refuses to be intimate with me does that mean I should live a life without any intimacy?
Cheating is wrong morally.
Withholding sex and intimacy is wrong morally.
What's commonly suggested here is that there's 'a pass' or something 'less moral' for those who choose not to remain intimate; and no pass for those who choose to take the intimacy out of the marriage. Both in these instances are equally morally wrong.
Marriage insists that you are everything to each other forever - it's that simple and that difficult. Marriage is not easy because you cannot and will not feel the same over time; so how you get to have a successful longstanding marriage from that place of bliss where you started out is the challenge...and a tremendous one at that. I failed in my marriage by not honoring the terms of the contract in my marriage. Any resultant action on the part of my ex was as a result immoral to our marriage but no more than my own role. jmo
on edit
Revisiting the commitment is the bridge back when things are sparse and scarce between you. The commitment is the one thing that doesn't change in marriage. Revisit the commitment until you can find your way back to each other on the terms that you agreed to or separate. Otherwise for those that can't fulfill the terms of intimacy, but still want the confines, supports and appearances of marriage...the underlying should be dispatched to the other... as long as you're discreet..I don't want to know... This is in my mind is brokering and reworking a new understanding about the commitment to their marriage in light of the abdication of one from their obligations, until they can reach a time where separation is more likely.
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/5/2009 4:52:17 PM | Sweetest, you should be a lawyer, if u arent one already! | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/6/2009 7:46:37 AM | Why are u not leaving? the kids? u cant have them taken away from you, its called court..
in what world are you living in ...I know many cases where the kids have been took away from their father ..and many more where they have been lied to and turned against their father
this all depends on what kind of lies the mother is willing to tell ...she only has to insinuate that he is abusive or perverted and there goes his parental rights
i herd a friends ex tell him one time ..If you dont pay for my car i will tell them you touched your daughter in ways you should not ...he paid for her car..and it will probably work next time she cant pay for something she bought
in court the whimpering, sobbing, poor little mistreated ex wife ..will lie her ass off ,and the good father ex hubby will be lucky if he dont go to jail ...seen it a hundred times | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/6/2009 8:16:15 AM | Lack of intimacy might be a reason for explanation, never to be accepted as justification.
Cheating is lack of respect to self/to the partner -as the status- and to the relationship itself. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/6/2009 2:16:38 PM | The main topic here is if cheating is justifiable. Doesn't mean all the time but case to case basis. This is how I understood the subject.
But anyhow, my answer and opinion to this question is yes, at times cheating may be justified. Everyone makes mistakes. Noone is perfect. Not even my dog , if I can recall.
These people who says that cheating is not justifiable are all cheaters themselves. You cannot face this kind of predicament happenning to your life. It's bitter. I have been cheated on but I took it as my fault for neglect. I worked it out and accepted to myself that it takes two to make a mistake. If a guy handles his woman right, I don't think the woman won't even think of it. And this is just one example or analogy. Mistakes in life is always triggered by shortcomings by the same person or the partner. So, people accept it, you will be cheated on by your partner one way or the other. You will always prepare for this or the worse. Then it will not hurt as bad. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/6/2009 2:21:57 PM | Sweetest,
Bingo!!! I am proud that this thread has finally shown that there are a number of people that UNDERSTAND some instances of cheating.....never justify.
Like you mentioned, sometimes is a matter of timing. As long as the spouses are discreet and /or they tell each other...if you do, I don't want to know.
Yes closing the bedroom is a breach of the agreement. Sometimes if is due to health reasons, then its different. It is not by choice, but the spouse still might need to find physical relationship outside. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/6/2009 2:55:06 PM | ive been following this tread for a while..and i got to thinking about the question.."Justifying Cheating?"
well its simple..we cant.
if 2 people in a relationship are dealing with a lack of commitment then the cheated is the only one who can or can not justify the cheating. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/6/2009 5:22:59 PM | Those kind of men are conflicted about what is really important in life. If the marriage is dead and there is no intimacy, then it's dead. It's time to move on. However, they're so
caught up in the monetary possession, they take the lazy way around it and cheat. They don't have their priorities straight and would only give a new woman on the scene a reason to become unhappy. If he's got a real 'pair of balls' he'd leave his wife, take his lumps, and move onto a new and honest relationship. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/6/2009 5:33:54 PM | Even I can understand cheating in some cases....I totally agree with you...
They are just to afraid that they either love their wife or scare the wife will take 1/2 of the almighty possessions. The real way would be to divorce if i is so unbearable and make himself and another woman happy. Over and over again. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/6/2009 6:16:17 PM | I guess I would have to say I was an enabler...I found out my bf was cheating (is it considered cheating if you are only dating for a couple of years?), he was not just cheating with one woman but with several, all of whom loved him or thought very highly of him (of course they did not know he was cheating on them too) and I tried to pretend it didn't matter, it was just for the sex or whatever it is guys cheat for was my reasoning.
So I am glad to hear that possibly it is something the cheater can get past. Maybe it is just a matter of that person finding the one person he really loves and wants to be faithful to.
So maybe the question should be, "is it really cheating or is the cheater just not with the person who fulfills his needs or makes him happy and he/she doesn't know how to get out of a bad situation"? | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/6/2009 6:27:36 PM | Justifying Cheating? Good luck with that...a good lawyer could try; however, what is legally correct is not necessarily morally correct.
I can understand why somebody might engage in cheating...I just can't relate to the emotional deceit and devastation of 'how' one could do this. I guess you'd have to be in a certain mindset?
In the context of one's intent, and on the basis of morality...the party that is/was cheating will know that they have done wrong. Justifying such an action is merely an Egotistic method to partially remove their blame. In this case, 'Justificaton' is somewhat pointless.
Peace. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/6/2009 8:11:46 PM | As the old saying goes.....
It's cheaper to keep her.
You are right, there is NEVER justification for cheating. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/6/2009 8:19:21 PM | If you can see their point then you are not looking for a relationship. You are looking for sex at your mutual convenience.
Hmmmm.
I would rather poop on the sidewalk and eat it with a spoon than tie up with someone who is already in a relationship OR with someone who would engage in an activity which is as void as the one you are considering.
That's just me. All or nothing. There are no compromises with my private parts. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/6/2009 9:46:05 PM | yep i think what your saying makes a lot of sense.
i agree with u cheating is never justifiable and i would never believe theres any good reasons for it.
but i think your right when it comes to the reason why a lot of people cheat.
i even know a guy that did it for thoses same reasons.a friend of mine told me that he told her that was the reason he did it.that plus the fact that he was afraid if he broke up with his gf he might not find anyone else.
now this guy always walked around acting all macho.i was surprised when i found out he was so pathetically afraid to be alone that he would give that as a reason to cheat.
i lost a lot of respect for that guy when i heard that.
what a looser.i wish evryone would find out how pathetic he is.he wouldnt act so cocky then.
lol
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/6/2009 9:50:28 PM | | well if there is no sex in the marriage, something is VERY wrong. but instead of cheating, they should try marriage counseling. cheating doesn't solve anything and only makes matters worse. i still don't understand why they'd want to stay in such a dysfunctional relationship?? there have to be reasons why there is no sex anymore and why the wife isn't being intimate anymore. i'm sure it's not all her fault, i'm sure the men have something to do with it. but you are only hearing their side of the story. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/6/2009 11:19:02 PM | | Not sure what it is for everyone but I just recently met a great woman and life was all I hoped for. Now since we are together, and committed, I spend evenings with her feeling so alone and ignored that I feel more alone than before i had someone. I suppose that could easily trigger a person to find someone to enjoy some time with. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/7/2009 1:49:14 AM | Honeyangel and others are right; wrong is wrong and cheating is wrong. We live in a society where governments, presidents, senators, and people in relationships, are constantly doing the wrong thing blaming others for their lack of character and judgment.
Man up; if you cheat you are wrong. Selling out because of money? how pathetic.
There is not justification for cheating. It's dysfunctional, irresponsible, and devoid of mature self control. Losers cheat. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/7/2009 5:37:28 AM | Bang on.
Men don't get it, when we, as women aren't connected emotionally, we cannot connect sexually. Not sure about men connecting sexually leading to emotional connecting as I don't think that' the case.
I have never strayed, ever, and I recall my last 4 yr relationship where everything began breaking down, we dint talk, etc, I was sleepin on couch as I was mad, etc, he had asked me one night to come back to bed...I thought it was cuz he missed the closeness..No sooner am I in the bed and he's groping me. Blah, made me ill, I told him to get off me and went back to the couch.
to a guy sex is part of the closeness ...You probably accepted this when you were in love with him
what Im getting from this .... woman cant stand the lazy arrogant SOB any more and are sickened by the thought of him entering her body ...then he cheats ...and it is that cheating that has tore her insides out ..he has destroyed her trust ... and taken what was hers else where
forget thr fact that by her own admission she didnt want it any more ..if she cant stand the thought of him inside her why the hell does she care if he is inside someone who wants him there ...what im seeing is it is ...possessions children's possessions.. I dont want my old toys any more but you cant play with them because they are mine ...they can set in the sand box and rust away but you better not touch them
if the marriage is over why does his cheating hurt her ??? I'm not condoning cheating ..but submitting that in most cases like the ones being discussed here ..that cheating where the intimacy of marriage is already gone ...is not a sin against the marriage ..is not a sin against the spouse ... but is only a sin against the moral fiber of the cheater ..by her own admission the marriage intimacy is gone ...so he is not cheating ..hurting or ending the marriage ...the only thing he is compromising is his morals ...something she says he has none of ...maybe he has heard how sorry he is till he believes it ...so why not cheat ???
I think in their own way both men and women make many attempts to fix a broken marriage before it is too late ...( he ask her to come back to the marriage bed ...she misinterprets his wanting intimacy as ,him being selfish )( she offers an olive branch and wants to talk their problems out and... he interprets it as nagging ) why ?
ANGER the answer is to learn to lay down anger ...when they were dating she interpreted his sexual advances as ..Gosh he is so into me ... now its ...all he wants is to satisfy his needs...well Im telling you ladies I dont care what kind of SOB he is ...when he completely stops caring for you he will not want to shag you ...thats how a guy knows he is finally over the Ex when he cant stand the thought of having sex with her
...he does the same with her attempts at reconciliation... why cant we just lay down the anger and look hard for the other side ... seeing the other side of an argument becomes easier the more you try it( we have seen it in this thread people who cannot justify cheating are beginning to say that in some circumstances they can understand why someone did it ) these are the people who are learning to lay down their anger
..but also finding something to get pissed about becomes easier the more you do it ( these are the people that still want to get even )
Men don't get it,
i submit that women dontget it any more than men do
women if you only learn one thing .... for men sex in a relationship is love ...for women sex is because of love ...a woman can still love a guy but not want to have sex with him if she is mad at him .
.. if a guy loves a woman ...he wants to have sex with her, period ..dont matter how pissed he is at her
if you take away sex from your guy he thinks the love is gone, period ..if you say NO and dont give a reason ..he feels unloved ,period
the same way you feel when you ask him to help around the house and he dont | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/7/2009 7:09:39 AM |
f a guy loves a woman ...he wants to have sex with her, period
Please keep in mind I am one who can see justification for sex outside a committed relationship, but that statement makes absolutely no sense to me. Men don't love hookers. Hookers are a paid receptacle. Men have sex with hookers. See how illogical the statement becomes by following that thinking process?
There are many men who either have very low sex drives or have medical reasons for not having sex, but that doesn't mean they don't love their partners.
IMO, here is what most people don't get. Sex within a loving, committed relationship is a wonderful thing. A loving relationship without sex is possible. Great sex without love is doable. Sex doesn't equal love, and love doesn't equal sex.
There are dozens of ways to cheat in a relationship and sex is only one. Unfortunately, it is the one that gets the most attention. | |
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| Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/7/2009 7:53:05 AM |
Bang on.
Men don't get it, when we, as women aren't connected emotionally, we cannot connect sexually. Not sure about men connecting sexually leading to emotional connecting as I don't think that' the case.
I have never strayed, ever, and I recall my last 4 yr relationship where everything began breaking down, we dint talk, etc, I was sleepin on couch as I was mad, etc, he had asked me one night to come back to bed...I thought it was cuz he missed the closeness..No sooner am I in the bed and he's groping me. Blah, made me ill, I told him to get off me and went back to the couch. to a guy sex is part of the closeness ...You probably accepted this when you were in love with him what Im getting from this .... woman cant stand the lazy arrogant SOB any more and are sickened by the thought of him entering her body ... then he cheats ...and it is that cheating that has tore her insides out ..he has destroyed her trust ... and taken what was hers else where forget thr fact that by her own admission she didnt want it any more ..if she cant stand the thought of him inside her why the hell does she care if he is inside someone who wants him there ...what im seeing is it is ...possessions children's possessions.. I dont want my old toys any more but you cant play with them because they are mine ...they can set in the sand box and rust away but you better not touch them
^^^good point....and if the couple is determined to stay within the marriage and have no sex between them...the nuts and bolts around bringing sex back individually to each needs to be the discussion. Women/men cannot unilaterally expect to make a huge breach in the terms of their marriage and not expect something else to rise up to take the place of what was, whether that is cheating or a reworking and a new understanding around the marriage from where it is now...given the breach, or separation.
I think in their own way both men and women make many attempts to fix a broken marriage before it is too late ...( he ask her to come back to the marriage bed ...she misinterprets his wanting intimacy as ,him being selfish )( she offers an olive branch and wants to talk their problems out and... he interprets it as nagging ) why ?
^^^It's an impasse because there are two different approaches at work here...for the woman to be open to sexual advances...the communication...the talking must happen first. For the man...talking is superfluous...it's the connection and closeness through sex that he uses to communicate. Sex does have the power to bring them back...to heal...but when you're hurting and not trusting...the advance of sex can seem appallingly inappropriate and communication can just die right there.
ANGER the answer is to learn to lay down anger ...when they were dating she interpreted his sexual advances as ..Gosh he is so into me ... now its ...all he wants is to satisfy his needs...well Im telling you ladies I dont care what kind of SOB he is ...when he completely stops caring for you he will not want to shag you ...thats how a guy knows he is finally over the Ex when he cant stand the thought of having sex with her
...he does the same with her attempts at reconciliation... why cant we just lay down the anger and look hard for the other side ... seeing the other side of an argument becomes easier the more you try it( we have seen it in this thread people who cannot justify cheating are beginning to say that in some circumstances they can understand why someone did it ) these are the people who are learning to lay down their anger
^^^This is true. Count me as one of those who has learned the hard way the wisdom of being able to lay down the anger. I'm not justifying cheating. I've never cheated on anyone...but I've been cheated on. In my relationship I felt at the time that I owned the corner on being hurt on being the most devastated---I was wrong. The other was equally as hurt and tried everything he could....we both had different ways to deal with what wasn't working and both of these ways moved us away from each other---our communication efforts hopelessly failing us.... I also know that my role in what happened was just as damning as his...even though he was the cheater...I was just a guilty---that's how I see it.
Since all that I don't go through life feeling like a victim because I was cheated on, nor do I have pessimism as an underlying current that I bring to other relationships. The biggest takeaway that I found from all of that was that stopping sex stops communication---I stupidly thought communication was really only about talking...it's not. Sex is the communication that goes beyond words. Sex is the glue...the healer. In marriage...or a relationship..if it's denied it shuts down 50% of the communicating and the healing. good post deerdog.
as always...jmo.
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