| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 4:34:04 PM | | Don't listen to all the nonsense in this thread mac, just turn yourself in first thing in the morning | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 4:37:49 PM |
But to think sexually about a child ? Would anybody put their hands up and say Yes I think like that? IMO that thought crosses a line that shouldn't even be considered crossable.
Unfortunately, the worst thing is when a person does not admit to themselves that these thoughts occur. Being able to voice such deviant thoughts reduces the amount which they control you....it releases their energy. It's hardly surprising why most choose to keep those thoughts to themselves but if there wasn't such a dreadful reaction to paedophilia more people might be able to seek help and talk their feelings through without fear and so there might be less people acting out their thoughts. | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 4:41:05 PM |
This thread has huge potential to turn into a flame war.
I agree.............. if not addressed and debated sensibly like adults.
Don't listen to all the nonsense in this thread mac, just turn yourself in first thing in the morning
I was just thinking about you !!
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 4:43:29 PM |
It's hardly surprising why most choose to keep those thoughts to themselves but if there wasn't such a dreadful reaction to paedophilia more people might be able to seek help and talk their feelings through without fear and so there might be less people acting out their thoughts.
There will always be a hard reaction to Paedophiles.
Mainly because it isnt just about sex, it is about control, about hurting someone else who is in no way able to understand what is going on, it is about the ritual abuse of innocents.
There will always be that reaction because the thought of the above happening to our children fills the hearts, minds and guts of parents with fear and disgust.
Separating thoughts from actions is one thing.
Trying to imagine not being disgusted and ready to kill one of those people if they tried to get near my child is quite another. | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 4:45:44 PM | So when is a child able to reproduce, or rather, when is a human able to reproduce, then that is your natural gauge...
someone quite wrongly said it never was acceptable, well you are wrong my dear, it was once acceptable to have sex with children as we understand it, and as I pointed out, it was unacceptable (in the mainstream anyway) to have same sex, but now that has changed, and I am dam sure there would have been people back then who would have said the same as you....Things and morals in society change, that is all I am saying....
Now, as for fkun a young child, nope, absolutely not on, but I have asked, and no one seems to know the answer, or address it, so that means you are so caught up with your own conscience you cannot even bear to think about it, something other brainwashed people react to other brainwashed situations...
So, now it has become acceptable to fk each other up the arse, when will it become acceptable to fk our chilrdren up the arse, or indeed our consenting donkeys? | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 4:46:14 PM | Yes, but surely one has to think thoughts about these acts in order to make an informed opinion as to what would be the outcome if you were in a reality situation?
Certainly you cannot read the word & instantly block out sexual thoughts & come to a conclusion without doing so.
It is the vileness of these thoughts that justify it being wrong. | |
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HenXX
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Joined: 6/16/2009
Msg: 57 | |
| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 4:48:54 PM | Are deviant thoughts with a policeman acceptable?
Edit
Saddle tramp.........AS i have already explained ,what two consenting mature adults do is acceptable......their choice.Animals and children cannot make a choice.A child brought up in a culture where it is acceptable,does not have the maturity to deal with it,either physically nor mentally although their society may think differently because of their own selfishness. | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 4:49:22 PM |
I think what I'm saying is probably just going right over your head.
No, it's perfectly clear, unfortunately.
My point, again, to be clear, is concerned with to what extent YOU or society at large has an interest in what I think.
I've been made aware what you think on this topic, and I find it quite disturbing, actually.
The original question is to what extent you can be guilty for thinking something.
I agree, as I noted in my first post on the topic. I said that having sexual thoughts about children defines one as being a 'paedophile' (the OED supports me in this) although such thoughts do not criminalise anyone.
I don't think as a general rule that thinking about murder makes you a murderer. I don't think that thinking about armed robbery makes you an armed robber. I don't think that thinking about rape makes you a rapist. Shall I continue?
No, I get your point..........and I agree with it.
The point at which society has an interest in anything you think is when you're (1) suppressing a desire [an intention to commit a crime]
Nooooooo......because suppressing a desire means that no action takes place. If someone wishes to rob a bank, yet supresses that desire, no robbery takes place, so society has no need to take action.
If neither of those two conditions are met, then society has no interest in what's going on inside your head.
I've spotted the obvious contradiction here - on the one hand, you claim that:
The point at which society has an interest in anything you think is when you're (1) suppressing a desire [an intention to commit a crime]
and on the other:
If neither of those two conditions are met, then society has no interest in what's going on inside your head.
So, you claim that society takes an interest in what is going on in your head if you are supressing a desire, and on the other, you are claiming that society has no interest in what's going on in your head with regard to supressing a desire.
Your words, not mine!
Your inner life, whatever it is, is nobody elses business but your own.
I agree........but it does not alter the fact that an adult who harbours sexual thoughts towards children is a paedophile, and you claim that such thoughts 'are fine'...your words, not mine!
HTH
MSG 57
It is the vileness of these thoughts that justify it being wrong.
I fully agree. | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 4:58:20 PM |
So, you claim that society takes an interest in what is going on in your head if you are suppressing a desire, and on the other, you are claiming that society has no interest in what's going on in your head with regard to supressing a desire.
There is no contradiction. Thinking something but not acting it out in real life is not the same as suppressing the desire to do something. The two are totally different. The former is just a mental image, which you may react to in one way or another - for example, it may come to you when you're reading a story in the newspaper about a gang-rape. The latter is having an intention to act, but not doing so because it is considered unacceptable by society at large.
Given that thoughts are not neccessarily directed by conscious attention, but can just "pop" into your head, it seems a little harsh to take a judgemental position immediately on their value. They only have value in respect of your intentions (external) or feelings about them (internal).
I agree........but it does not alter the fact that an adult who harbours sexual thoughts towards children is a paedophile, and you claim that such thoughts 'are fine'...your words, not mine!
Again, you're not addressing the original question. The question wasn't, "is someone who thinks about sex with children a peodophile" (answer: possibly), it was "to what extent is someone who thinks about sex with children guilty of peodophilia" (or words to that effect). The word "guilty" is what I'm using here to form my opinion.
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 5:33:04 PM | Quote[You could be right mac, as the intent is there. Think most of us have thought of killing someone or having our wicked way but never carry them out due to being caught but intent is still there.]
A thought is not an intent.
I have occasionally thought how nice it would be to steal a big bag of cash, but have no intention of carrying it out.
Also, before you all go off at me for condoning paedophilia, which I do not, I offer the following as something to get you to think rather than merely react:
In the following scenario, forgetting for a moment criminality, Who is the most abhorent?
(1) a 30 year old man who has consensual (in the non legal term) sex with a well developed 15 year old girl. (well developed meaning mentally too)
(2) a 30 year old man who has sex with a 25 year old woman with learning difficulties and a mental age of 8.
Of course, neither can be condoned, I offer this to highlight the fact that to me, the age of 16 is meaningless except as an arbitrary age decided by society.
I would say a 45 year old man having sex with a 16 year old girl is worse than a 21 year old man having sex with a 15 year old girl......depending on relative developement. Yet by legal definition, the 45 year old has commited no crime and the 21 year old is a paedophile. | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 9:13:40 PM | Negative thoughts-are more likely to produce negative actions.
Positive thoughts-are more likely to produce positive actions.
How and what we think can determine a good day or bad day, crime starts with a thought, and pediphilia starts with a thought. I would conclude that the root of pediphilia is a thought, therefore making one guilty, not by our given laws, but by moral law.
The mind is a battlefield, where we must use the right weapons to conquer negative thoughts, because these thoughts can ruin our own lives and others, its like the planting of a seed, dont nourish it or water it. | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 9:32:38 PM |
In the following scenario, forgetting for a moment criminality, Who is the most abhorent?
(1) a 30 year old man who has consensual (in the non legal term) sex with a well developed 15 year old girl. (well developed meaning mentally too)
(2) a 30 year old man who has sex with a 25 year old woman with learning difficulties and a mental age of 8.
Both !
A 30 year old guy should be punished for abusing underage girls and mentally undeveloped girls too.. His place is not there and in both cases the guys are sick! | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 11:29:53 PM | I can see where Saddletramp is coming from....
A person who has inappropriate thoughts about children has the potential to become a paedophile but they are not an active paedophile and that is where the law lies....
We are taught to believe that children are precious and they need protecting from sex... That is our culture, that is how we live, that is what we believe... Other cultures believe differently... There is a tribe in Papua New Guinea who have an elderly man who's job it is to masturbate young babies and toddlers as a method of pacifying them when they are distressed... This man is revered, not reviled... They cannot understand our reaction to how they deal with upset children... The same human brain, the same species, totally different views on sex and children, with each culture believing they are right and the other is beyond belief...
The mind is a complex organ, it refuses to behave as we want it to most of the time...
I think the criminality aspect comes into being when inappropriate thought processes become more and more dominant and still the thinker makes no effort to 'cure' themselves...
Who would you hate more.... The 'man' fighting his subconscious thoughts and doing all he can to stop them becoming fact?
Or the 'man' who sexually abused a young child on the spur of the moment, with no real thoughts of paedophilia prior to the attack?
It's an emotive subject and whilst I don't think it's OK for someone to have paedophillic thoughts, I don't agree that someone should be criminalised for thought alone... | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 3:29:01 AM | Unatural sexual thoughts about children are in my opinion just WRONG!!
But are they guilty of paedophillia? Definitions i found for the term paedophillia include Sexual attraction to children and The act or fantasy on the part of an adult of engaging in sexual activity with a child or children.
So the answer would be yes - to harbour sexual thoughts of children would constitute to paedophillia.
So if i was to fantasize or have unatural sexual thoughts about a 16 year old boy would that make me guilty of this crime also? Or because 16 is the legal age for sexual consent it would be ok?
How about couples who like to role play - have their other half dress up as a school girl/boy? Are they guilty for being turned on seeing their partner dressed up in a school uniform?
Just curious.... | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:41:57 AM | How about couples who like to role play - have their other half dress up as a school girl/boy? Are they guilty for being turned on seeing their partner dressed up in a school uniform?
Very guilty! 
There are those that feel guilty about harbouring sexual thoughts about kids and those who don't feel any guilt whatsoever. Whilst it remains in their heads it makes not a jot of difference in either case but at least the ones that do feel guilty have a moral conscience and as a consequence it is less likely that they will act on their thoughts. | |
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Travan
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Joined: 11/23/2008
Msg: 66 | |
| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 8:17:32 AM |
Animals and children cannot make a choice.A child brought up in a culture where it is acceptable,does not have the maturity to deal with it
And who determines what a child is? Do you know the legal definition for a child? Or a paedophile? Is a 15 year old girl not then capable of consenting to sex and enjoying the experience without issues or problems later?
I know of some 15 year olds in my past who were much more mature than some of the damaged women in here lol
is a tribe in Papua New Guinea who have an elderly man who's job it is to masturbate young babies and toddlers as a method of pacifying them when they are distressed
As babies do to themselves when in the womb.
In my opinion, aside from the argument about what age sex is appropriate, it's the adults that cause the problems. Sex in my younger years was fun and nice and dressed in nothing more than doing what humans enjoy. You don't have to be promiscuous or lack self-respect to enjoy sex.
Now it's wrapped up in make-shift emotional responses tied with issues of damaged psyches, and the worse the adults get the bigger the response to things like paedophilia. Big response but, no reasoned answers to prevent it though.
Those who see thoughts as bad, and the people that have them as evil, I say watch out, for it may be you who actually has the problem. | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 10:30:59 AM | | Guilty by thought.....bloody hell, thats deep......ok well then im guilty of an awful lot of shit then......do i get time off, ... if i didnt mean to think about it, and the thought just sprang into my head? | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 11:22:20 AM |
I know of some 15 year olds in my past who were much more mature than some of the damaged women in here lol
thinking that a 15 year old is mature enough to have sex with adult people is wrong plus it would as well be illegal | |
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HenXX
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Joined: 6/16/2009
Msg: 69 | |
| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:24:50 PM | | Travan.......So getting pregnant,catching stds,developing ovarian cancer at an early age etc are not long term problems for a 15 year old?....there is more to it than just being emotionally mature enough to accept a bit of fun. | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 1:31:41 PM | I'd agree with Travan to an extent. I know 15/16 year olds who are far more responsible and act far more maturely than some people I know in their 40's. I'd bet they know more about STI's too and certainly have a much more responsible attitude to contraception. Just because they know doesn't mean they practice it either.
Kids are far more clued up these days (largely due to education and discussions about sex. preganancy, sexual disease and such like being far from taboo at school and with parents and their peer group). | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 2:42:58 PM | We cant control our thoughts can we ,but we can control our actions !and we can dismiss unwanted thoughts from our brains when they occasionally pop in there
peadophiles dont do this they dwell on such thoughts ,encourage them with pictures and sometimes turn themselves crazy enough to actually carry said thoughts out ,same as rapists and murderers do .
So no the thought doesnt make you guilty,the encouragement of the thought ,which may or may not turn into the deed makes you guilty
I dont think sleeping with a fifteen year old thats willing is being a peado ,its sick unless your 17 or under but at least they are full grown at this age ,thats my view | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/3/2009 6:21:41 PM | | What about people who suffer with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. People with this condition are tormented with awful and unwanted thoughts even making them feel suicidal. People with OCD are usually gentle and tormented souls who would never harm a fly yet can have horrendous thoughts and images going through their mind..."What if I harmed someone"..."Hurt a child"...the truth is it's the mind playing tricks. | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/3/2009 6:36:34 PM | Capricorn....I believe OCD behaviors are more related to fears and nervousness about the thoughts, creating daily rituals and behaviors about these fears and nervousness. Germs, fear of hurting others, fear of fire etc...
The thought of sexual relations with a child I believe would not derive from a fear or nervousness about something. Not sure if this thought would classify under OCD.
This is a lustful thought, a thought in its own catagory. | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/3/2009 6:46:50 PM | What I am trying to explain is that people who suffer with OCD can have all sorts of horrendous thoughts, sexual, violentblasphemous thus creating terrible fear and anxiety. The thoughts are usually abhorent to the sufferer. OCD thoughts are very common I have done a lot of research and have also been a sufferer myself.
Bad thoughts can be linked with all sorts of mental health problems and do not make that person guilty. The sufferer already feels enough guilt just having this condition even though it is not their fault. I just wanted to get this out in the open becaus OCD is very common and nothing to be ashamed about. Thankyou. | |
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| Guilty By Thought ?
Posted: 7/3/2009 10:33:05 PM |
thinking that a 15 year old is mature enough to have sex with adult people is wrong plus it would as well be illegal
The poster you quoted did not suggest that an adult having sex with a 15 year-old was 'right'........he merely stated that some 15 year-olds appeared more mature than some women he has encountered.
Besides, how many 15 year-olds have wished to have sex with those of a similar age? Going by the comments of my classmates back in the mid-seventies, I suspect the number could be quite high.
And as for the numbers of adults that some of us wanted...... | |
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