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Posted: 7/2/2009 4:37:41 PM |
I am reading an in-depth study right now on poor women who have become single mothers, almost all of whom began parenthood as young teens. For them, the issue, believe it or not, is not about low self esteem. Many of them have quite high self esteem, which is on reason they think they can be such great mothers even though they might only be 14 years old and live on welfare.
Many of them have babies because they want to have them. They have no aspirations of education or careers, etc. Being mothers gives them a sense of meaning.
Poverty is in itself a problem for any society. Poverty does not usually give someone the fortitude or belief they can leave poverty....lack of hope and life direction . I can easily understand why these young women might feel that motherhood is the only option for them.....I don't need to read any study to figure that out because it is pretty obvious.
Self-esteem - I guess it depends on how you define one's self-esteem.....I probably use the term much more broadly than webster's allows....lol | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 4:38:57 PM | | Lacking in hope and direction is a choice. | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 4:41:47 PM | Yes bosoxfaninwa, it is a choice but if you have grown up in poverty and don't have strong role models around you....you may not realize you even have a choice, generally speaking of course, exceptions always exist.
I am not condoning it, just explaining it.... | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 4:46:03 PM | No child should be subjected to an environment filled with drugs and alcohol abuse. Listen to your attorney and when you go to court, your attorney will bring this up to the judge, and it will be the judges discretion. Typically, without having any proof, the judge may still allow the father certain rights. I would suggest supervised visits. This is what my ex husband has (also an addict), but he has not been involved in over 6 years. When going to court all those years ago, it had been about a year into it, with no contact, and the judge slammed him hard. (he was not at the hearing. surprise.)
Good luck to you. | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 4:47:54 PM |
Self-esteem - I guess it depends on how you define one's self-esteem.....I probably use the term much more broadly than webster's allows....lol
I'm pretty sure you are using it just like I use it, and I initially thought the same thing you did. that many of these girls have babies because they have low self esteem. This study, however, specifically addresses that question, and it says in many cases the early child bearing is not because of low self esteem, and that many of these girls have surprisingly high self esteem. | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 4:48:39 PM | What about school? I don't think it's exceptions that exist, I think there are people who chose to work their butts off to be somewhere other than where their parents let them start.
When there are people coming from other countries living in boxes coming to give their life purpose and a chance to get out of poverty or other challenges they have faced, I find it less forgiving that those in the United States who have education, public libraries and all sorts of opportunities to get a strong role model choose to continue down the same path they were given, and they say, "It wasn't my choice."
It absolutely is a choice. Teenagers, especially the ones in school, know what resources are available to them. They choose the easy path of staying right where they started. | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 4:50:29 PM |
Does it mention anything about their environments or parents? I just wonder how a girl winds up thinking that she has nothing better to do than have sex and have a baby.
It speaks a lot about their environments but not as much about their parents as I would have liked. | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 6:20:11 PM |
He wants to be a part of the child's life, you wouldn't give this man the option of changing, even though you were just as much in the wrong?
A friend of mine was in this situation years and years ago... partied heavily, drank did drugs (fortunately not heavy usage)
When his wife left him, and took their kid, it was a wake up call....
His kid just recently got married.. his ex wife and him were both very proud...they are friends now... no animosity anymore...
He hasn't touched a drop of alcohol or done drugs or even smoked a cigarette in 25 years... He's been a 110% super parent. Runs his own business and has a new wife and a couple more kids.... people can and do change if they have the motive to put their kids first... | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 6:29:32 PM |
What about school? I don't think it's exceptions that exist, I think there are people who chose to work their butts off to be somewhere other than where their parents let them start.
When there are people coming from other countries living in boxes coming to give their life purpose and a chance to get out of poverty or other challenges they have faced, I find it less forgiving that those in the United States who have education, public libraries and all sorts of opportunities to get a strong role model choose to continue down the same path they were given, and they say, "It wasn't my choice."
It absolutely is a choice. Teenagers, especially the ones in school, know what resources are available to them. They choose the easy path of staying right where they started.
It is a choice. They all have access to a free education right up through high school. For the most part, getting pregnant is a choice they make, too. This study is only about the teens/young women who have children. There are other teens/young women from the same impoverished areas who choose not to get pregnant and choose to finish high school and some do go on to college. | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 6:29:55 PM | Ok to all the ones that are looking back of why I had a baby.
1) I was with this guy for 3 years, life was great, one day we moved out together and everything was ok... I found out I was pregnant after I graduated from school and was about to start college, I decided to have the baby, because it was my decision, is my moral and my right to do with my body what ever I wanted. He didnt say yes or no.
* Another point is that a he asked for DNA test knowing she is his, he is 100% sure she is his! he is doing it for some reason to offend me, but he is only offending her.
* I asked should I let him see her or no?
Note: why are people getting out of this topic and arguing why I had the baby, why I did this, and that...????
I had her period. She is healthy and happy... I just wonder if I should let him see her before court, or should I wait for the court to say when, how and where. ( that is my question)
PS: I think if is a stable relationship... or at least you think is is then the father will be around and he will care for his family. If he is not around like my ex, then he is just a piece of shite. | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 6:35:15 PM |
I agree there is a problem with some teenage girls who aren't getting the right message but are they reading these posts on an adult dating site? Probably not, so the messages being delivered here are not reaching that audience........they are reaching the eyes of women in trouble because of decisions they made in the past.
Can these women not pass the information along? Can these women not talk to younger girls about how it was a mistake, and they made the best they could of what happened, but don't wish it upon anyone?
Why does it seem acceptable for them to say it was a wonderful miracle and they would never change a thing? I understand they love their child, nobody is questioning that but they still feel the need to say it. If there are teenage girls reading what they write here or anywhere else, or overhear what they say, they might as well draw up a billboard promoting underage sex and underage parenthood.
Also, while there may not be many teens reading these threads, there are many very young women, 19, 20, 21 years old who are members of POF who were teen mothers, and maybe reading these types of threads, if the discussions are honest, will prevent one or two of them from having an additional child, or even a third or fourth child, until they are financially and emotionally ready. | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 6:35:56 PM | | You got plenty of answers and opinions to your question. | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 6:37:12 PM |
Also, while there may not be many teens reading these threads, there are many very young women, 19, 20, 21 years old who are members of POF who were teen mothers, and maybe reading these types of threads, if the discussions are honest, will prevent one or two of them from having an additional child, or even a third or fourth child, until they are financially and emotionally ready.
It's also possible that there are teens reading these threads. They are not private, and it's fairly easy to create an account. | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 6:47:21 PM |
Another point is that a he asked for DNA test knowing she is his, he is 100% sure she is his! he is doing it for some reason to offend me, but he is only offending her.
How is a 4 month old going to get offended.... And sorry, getting a DNA test is a logical thing to do when there is going to be questions of support and custody... Quite likely a lwyer would recommend it anyway...
If you let hjim see her after being advised not to, the courts could see it as defining the future of his visitations... ie you allowed this, so it you may be expcted to allow it for the future.... essentially establishing a precedent... | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 6:48:50 PM | | Do not let him. There is a reason why he was never there for you or her. My son's dad is a drug addict and even though he has supervised visits I would let him come by pretty much whenever he wanted. Which when he was here he was usually arguing with me more then he was playing with my son. Have you thought that the only reason why he is wanting to see her now is to get some control over the issue? My sister yelled at me one day saying how dumb I was being for letting the father come over anytime he wanted to because no telling when he is high he could be high around my son and that the courts ordered me sole custody for a reason they do not think a drug addict has the capapilitys to make any decisions for the kid. What made me see that my sister was right was one day(after court mind you) I let him change his clothes in my bathroom and latter on when I went to give my son a bath I found a pipe on a low shelf that my son could have easily reached. Thank god I found it befor my son found it and no telling what would have happened. SO I advise you to wait to see what the judge agrees to before he gets to spend any time with your daugher. | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 6:49:39 PM | | Not with him using drugs. A supervised visit might be in order. I agree that you should listen to your lawyer. Your lawyer has you and your childs interests in mind. Let the judge figure out the rest. | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 6:58:37 PM | Everything that is happening right now she will find out... I DO NOT NEED TO TELL HER ANYTHING. Kids always find out. Have any of you ever though about what would have you felt if you found out that your father denied you? Many of the people that post here are from North America. You guys think different, that is why I post this, so I could get the different opinions, not to get judge. I have proof of abuse, I have proof of everything I said to the court. None of you have idea about my parents or the way I live or how I was raised, maybe I had a worst life or maybe I was a rich girl form where I am from. So please do not bring up my past or my family. Courts try to give equal chances to fathers and mothers... when... they have work out a relationship with the child. My ex never tried. Why would I know, after I have done everything by myself.
Im not going to let him see her. I made my decision and if he really wants to see her then he can just wait one more month. | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 7:23:27 PM | OP: DO NOT let him see the baby. If the laywer says no, don't do it. I would recommed that you not even spend time alone with him.
No? maybe not right now. However, if she ends up on the 'system' it will be my tax dollars that help to pay for her lifestyle and her kid.... And I do mean that "my tax dollars" quite literally... she's in the same town, provice and country as me... maybe I'll get to help fund a daycare for sinlge moms out of my next tax increase....
Oh yeah, and as I said, "rinse and repeat" as the cycle keeps going... sinlge moms end up having kids who often become single moms too.... Seems to me no one learns anything
I do LOVE a good stereotype! Amazing as it may seem to some, not all single mothers are out to do more than raise their child in the best way that they possibly can. I will proudly say that I am a single mother because it's better than the alternative.
You suggested in a previous post that people really get to KNOW their partners before they get pregnant, which is true to an extent, but how does one get to really know how their SO will treat them when they're preggers till it's too late? Example: I was with my daughter's father for 2 yrs, and suffer from PCOS and was told that I had a better chance of getting struck by lightning than of getting preggers. Long medical story to it, but I ended up pregnant. My SO was thrilled at first, but soon decided that I wasn't as much fun preggers as before. Being sick all the time kinda kills the sex drive. He decided that I must devote my full attention to him at all times, called for me to quit my job and forbade me to talk to my family because he was all the family I would need now. I left him the day he hit me. I was 4 mo preg. Fast forward to my daughter being 3 mo old. I had had to get some help to pay medical bills and so the state hunted out her father. He denied her, they did a DNA test, he's the father. They assigned him child support, he threatend to kidnap my daughter on his first visitation day. He lost his chance at visitation and I got sole custody. I have been raising my daughter, alone, since. No more state aid, and he is facing jail time cause he has yet to pay any support.
Bottom line: I understand that you have a right to voice your opinion but it would make for much more interesting reading if you would take the time to educate yourself a bit, get to know some single parents and their situations. Stop judging without all of the information. | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 7:47:36 PM |
I understand that you have a right to voice your opinion but it would make for much more interesting reading if you would take the time to educate yourself a bit, get to know some single parents and their situations. Stop judging without all of the information.
Well, my opinions are based on the women I have lived with that were single moms... and friends who were single moms...and also the kids that I have... I have the experiences of I'm also educated and well read... so stop judging without all of the information....
You suggested in a previous post that people really get to KNOW their partners before they get pregnant, which is true to an extent, but how does one get to really know how their SO will treat them when they're preggers till it's too late?
Sorry, I don't buy into the "he became bad when I got pregnant theory". There are indicators and there are clues to people's behavour... and peope make bad decisions...
and speaking of bad decisions...
I would have a lot more faith in what you posted if you didn't have the following listed in your profile...
Due to being a single mother, any dates (unless planned WAY in advance) would have to include my daughter as well.
Apart from limiting your dating... YOU DO NOT TAKE A 2 1/2 YEAR OLD GIRL ON A DATE! EVER! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you think that taking a kid on a date, is ok,( considering how your Ex turned out, you should know better) then you are part of the problem.... | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 8:07:08 PM |
Apart from limiting your dating... YOU DO NOT TAKE A 2 1/2 YEAR OLD GIRL ON A DATE! EVER! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you think that taking a kid on a date, is ok,( considering how your Ex turned out, you should know better) then you are part of the problem....
That line in my profile actually keeps people from trying to invite me on dates, which is the entire reason for that specific wording. If you read, I do list that I'm looking for friends, but never discount a POSSIBILITY of a relationship. Truth to tell, I'm not expecting any such thing to come about. I am happy as I am, my daughter is the center of my universe and the best thing I can do is to raise her and devote my time to her. I learned quite a bit in dating her father and know a lot more now than ever before.
Before you ask, I am on this site for the possibility of meeting new people to talk to and make friends with, not for any kind of relationship, but rather because I am an insomniac and once my daughter is asleep for the night, I don't have a heck of a lot to do.
I'm also quite glad to know that you, personally, know everyone one on earth and their reactions to every possible thing and that it's completely IMPOSSIBLE for someone to change when presented by a situation that they never expected. That means that I will have to take the full blame for not seeing something that would let me know that the loving man I was with would turn into someone else entirely when I got preggers. Just some food for thought though, his cousin was a friend of mine at that time and Felipe would invite him to our place for dinner several times a week. During the the last few weeks, before I left, his cousin had also noticed severe changes in Felipe's personality. He called me about it the day that I left, because he just wanted to be sure that I was ok. Personal research led me to the information that there is this thing called "depression" that can cause severe changes in personality and the triggers are diverse and sometimes, unpredictable. | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 8:17:20 PM | Goga: Sometimes you need the harsh aunt to be very blunt with you. Many men don't want to use condoms because they can't 'feel' it. The same guys like the idea of kids but not the reality: no more spontaneous sex, no more freedom, money, and there's obligation, etc. These guys find easy reasons to leave the mothers because they aren't mature enough for bills, obligation, etc.
But, when they leave, they find that society (family and friends too) makes a bad judgment about them. EVERYONE has heard a story "The father left, he's a bum" and this guy starts to feel guilty everytime he has to explain to new women, his family (who've heard about you being pregnant) and whenever business needs to be conducted (filing income taxes, ltrs from child support authority).
Plus, once the baby arrives, your figure comes back (or his memory of your figure), you usually have somewhere to live, food to eat, a tv to watch - oh and the novelty of the child he created (the kid may be cute!). So, his guilty conscience/desire to be decent arises sometimes and he comes to see the child (but really it's to be a part of YOUR home). While there, he can check up on you - if you're friendly, his thoughts turn to sex. If you've got a new man or remind him of his everyday responsibilities, he calls you Biotchy and leaves. And he doesn't return until his conscience gets the better of him again (in a few months or around a holiday). Outta sight is outta mind so he doesn't remember to send any money. THIS IS WHY HE WANTS TO SEE THE BABY! The child is just the key to YOUR door and has very, very little to do with his renewed contact.
I'll only ask this question, when he asked for a visit, did HE mention giving you some money? No, he wants THAT to wait til the hearing, right?!
Don't spend 18 years worrying about whether or not he's on drugs or drinking or what kind of role model he's being. Raise your child alone and let him figure out how to PROVE repeatedly who he is WHILE SENDING THE MONEY. As the other poster stated,"Money is what's close to his heart and he's using what's close to yours to get back at you". | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 8:51:18 PM |
Sorry, I don't buy into the "he became bad when I got pregnant theory". There are indicators and there are clues to people's behavour... and peope make bad decisions...
and speaking of bad decisions...
You don't have to "buy" anything with which you haven't personally had experience or witnessed for yourself.
People are responsible for their choices absolutely but that doesn't excuse the bad behaviour of someone else, or does it in your books? Is it always the fault of the "victim" and never the "perpetrator" because there were signs and they didn't see them or want to recognize them for what they were? It sure seems to me that in your books, the women are usually at fault for picking the "losers" and "abusers".... | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 9:45:27 PM | Is it always the fault of the "victim" and never the "perpetrator" because there were signs and they didn't see them or want to recognize them for what they were? It sure seems to me that in your books, the women are usually at fault for picking the "losers" and "abusers"....
No... it's not always the fault of the victim... I agree.... however, if the woman can see the signs and chooses to ignore them, then it is her fault... as I worded it. I'm not talking where there were no signs.... If the guy led her to believe otherwise, then yes, it is his fault... and he's an ass for doing it... I have no respect for anyone male or female who brings a child into the world and isn't prepared to deal with it responsibly. And yes, men make as many if not more excuses than the women do.
That being said, women are the ones who decide whether or not to have sex and unless it's rape... they know full well what can happen if you have sex. If a guy was to talk about not wanting to pay support for a child, people would be all over him for not keeping it in his pants.... and that he has to accept responsibility for his actions...
Yet if it's a single mom, we're all supposed to go "Oh you poor thing...."??????
Ultimately, if you cannot spot the clues then you don't know the person well enough to be having kids with them.... and that applies to both men and women... guys who end up with kids they didn't want are equally to blame for fcuking someone without thinking through the possible consequences and I have no sympathy for them either....
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Posted: 7/2/2009 10:21:36 PM | m_church
if the women can see the signs and chooses to ignore them, then it is her fault
Before I got pregnant my ex would never speed while I was in the car and I was like wow here he has a mustang and he doesn't even speed which I gotta admit I was kind of suspicious about. As soon as I got pregnant I soon discovered that he never did the speed limit. That he was a road hazard.
It is amazing how a guy's attitude can do a 180 when he thinks the woman is stuck with him. How many men complain that their wife changed after they got married? They stopped having sex. She put on the weight. I've heard these complaints numerous times.
Actually I think that if we hadn't moved close to his parents we would have been fine. It was like his dad took him out back and gave him a "talk" about how to treat his "old lady".
I over looked some of his faults because I wanted a family and I thought he wanted the same thing too. That was what he told me. I could have lived with him spending his money on his car, his harley, quiting his job whenever he felt like it. I could not live with him being a bad father that was the deal breaker for me.
Yet if it's a single mom, we're all supposed to go "Oh you poor thing.."???
First thing I don't feel sorry for myself why do I need someone else's pitty. I always knew I'd rather be a single mom so if I hadn't met a guy who wanted to start a family with me at 30 I was going to have a baby anyway.
You wanted ur two seater car I wanted my baby. m_church I don't want ur sympathy I don't need it I got everything out of life I wanted.
Also I love being a mom I wouldn't trade it for anything. My life is a lot less stressful being the single mom. | |
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Posted: 7/2/2009 10:26:42 PM | Goga00 in ur court order u can get it so ur ex can not do unprescribed drugs around ur daugther (pot), that he cannot drink in excess around your child, that he has only supervised visitation, and in my case he can not have her in his mustang.
my ex hasn't seen her in over a yr, so either ur ex will step up make the changes he needs to or he will vanish from the picture | |
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