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Posted: 7/3/2009 4:40:26 AM | | I would be very cautious about leaving a small baby with a pothead and drinker. Just a thought, but his sudden interest in being a part of your baby's life after being served seems highly suspect to me. I'm sure she's a beautiful baby, but perhaps he's doing this merely to lessen the child support? Seems like a no brainer to me. ... | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 5:47:09 AM | You suggested in a previous post that people really get to KNOW their partners before they get pregnant, which is true to an extent, but how does one get to really know how their SO will treat them when they're preggers till it's too late? Example: I was with my daughter's father for 2 yrs, and suffer from PCOS and was told that I had a better chance of getting struck by lightning than of getting preggers. Long medical story to it, but I ended up pregnant. My SO was thrilled at first, but soon decided that I wasn't as much fun preggers as before. Being sick all the time kinda kills the sex drive. He decided that I must devote my full attention to him at all times, called for me to quit my job and forbade me to talk to my family because he was all the family I would need now. I left him the day he hit me. I was 4 mo preg.
My first thought when I read this was, how sad that you think it is so common for normal men to change so abruptly after a woman becomes pregnant that you cannot predict who will and who won't change. The fact is, this is a wrong assumption. Most men do not do a 180* turn around because of pregnancy symptoms, and most non-violent men do not suddenly become batterers because of morning sickness, etc.
This is one reason why it is better to have a child after two people have made a commitment to one another (call it marriage or lifetime partnership or whatever), and if one of the two people in the relationship never wants children, it should be found out before the commitment is made. | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 5:55:18 AM | Everyone keeps saying "don't leave the baby with him."
That wasn't her question.
She asked if she should let him SEE the baby. | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 6:14:11 AM | Goga00................never mind why you had the baby, don't listen to all the twaddle here.....congratulations for getting this far......now look toward the future positively for you and your little one.
Wihtout knowing the reasons why your lawyer has advised you not to allow any access before the case (which I'm assuming is mainly about the custody), it's hard to comment....however........fantastic that he's trying to see her now, for the moment assume that his motives are gtenuine but be prepared for a lengthy battle with him ultimately giving up any rights he has won (just in case his motives are not good).
A judge should look fairly at what kind of access and how this can be arranged due to his and your circumstances. Go with the DNA testing as long as you are not paying, you have nothing to lose, and it may save any future unecessary rows aor argumnets over this in the future....it is not a reflection on you, but rather a reflection of what appears to be his suspicious nature.
Try to take things one step at a time, even if he is using, this can be managed so that any access he is granted is safe for your baby, possibly supervised and with drugs testing (pee tests can be done quickly to make sure he's not under the influenec at the time of seeing the baby, opiates will show up to 3 days after using so he need to be clean 3 days before , cannabis can take longer if he's using a lot). Be prepared to take tests too, he may spring this if he's feeling sore about doing them...again this is not a reflection on you.
You're baby's 4 months...cool. Also check out what's in your local area and grants to help fund you whilst on that college course you had planned, find out about your childcare options and any study from home options, don't rely on him regularly making support payments, if he lapses you'll need to be prepared. Start making your network of friends who have similar situations and are working to better themseleves so that you have a circle of support. Playgroups and free programs in your area are good for this. Make sure also that you are getting all the money and free support that you can from your state.
Your mum will naturally be very protective towards you given his past track record and how badly he's behaved towards you.
And last of all.........this may be the start of your baby's relationship with her dad, it may be easier to just try and prevent it now, but it could also be that he actually starts to sort himself out - this your child will thank you for many years down the road. The fact is right now that no-one knows, probably not even him what's going to happen, buit don't write him off totally just yet. It'll be hard work, take it day by day, you can do it, give it a chance and keep your head level and deal with obstacles or set backs as they come, don't make decisions about the future, it's a case of seeing how it pans out before you do anything hard and fast.
I've been there, so I can relate, much love and peace to you and your baby. | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 6:21:09 AM |
It is a choice. They all have access to a free education right up through high school. For the most part, getting pregnant is a choice they make, too. This study is only about the teens/young women who have children. There are other teens/young women from the same impoverished areas who choose not to get pregnant and choose to finish high school and some do go on to college.
Despite the the lack of positive rolemodels I had and my conditioning, I escaped....however I am very, very, lucky that I did, it is not easy, this is why these boards are so important, this is why it's important to stop about marraige and blame and judgeing.
Any life can be turned around for the better AT ANY POINT.........this is something you are welcome to contribute to if you so feel like, or you can keep kicking people when they're down. | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 6:31:17 AM | Good advice Nothing sweet.
Bosox, my point was not yet. Let the judge give a fair apprasial of the situation. I do beleive people grow and change. Right now, leaving the infant with him would be unwise if not unhealthly. She is paying a lawyer good money to protect her and the child's interests. Custody arrangements can be revised, depending on the circustances. Supervised visits might be the first step to him having greater access. This will ensure that he is clean and sober when he visits his daughter. Go ahead and do the parternity test, most lawyers for men advise it anyhow. It isn't a comment on you or your daughter it is just standared operating proceedure these days.
Personal note: I have seen what narcotic use by a parent has done to childern and the lasting effects, on there pychie into adult life. That is why I am against exposing a child to someone that high, or has the potential to use, in the childs presence. Narcotics destroy families. I hope for all your sakes that he gets himself clean and sober. | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 8:18:09 AM | Despite the the lack of positive rolemodels I had and my conditioning, I escaped....however I am very, very, lucky that I did, it is not easy, this is why these boards are so important, this is why it's important to stop about marraige and blame and judgeing.
You are welcome to your opinion, but start your own site if you want to dictate to people what they can and cannot discuss on a public forum. I cannot imagine how marriage could be such a taboo subject that you want to stop people from talking about it, especially on a dating site. | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 8:39:57 AM | Future, I don't think that marriage as a topic is what she (and I ) take offense to , it is the at times less than tactful way of telling someone what a moron you think they are because of the choices they've made...not you personally but those who do it.
Empowerment of people, lifting them up and maybe helping to mentor/guide them to more positive changes in their lives from this point forward is in my opinion, far more beneficial than pointing out to them the errors of their past ways.
You are quite right though, people who want to judge and blame people for their poor choices will of course always exist on these boards and many like them.....and they have a right to say whatever they want to say.....some of us will continue to call them out when they do it because we believe their tactics are cruel and unhelpful.
Besides which, there are those pesky little things called rules that we are all supposed to be abiding by or risk losing our posting priveledges......one of which is to STAY ON TOPIC.....lol. | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 12:25:26 PM |
Despite the the lack of positive rolemodels I had and my conditioning, I escaped....however I am very, very, lucky that I did, it is not easy, this is why these boards are so important, this is why it's important to stop about marraige and blame and judgeing.
Any life can be turned around for the better AT ANY POINT.........this is something you are welcome to contribute to if you so feel like, or you can keep kicking people when they're down.
Why do you consider it luck that you escaped from your environment?
People in complete denial will never improve their lives, they will continue to whine about them and make mistakes that affect other people besides themselves.
You are right, anyone can turn their life around, which is exactly what her ex should be allowed the chance to do. Someone living in denial about their choices isn't going to be doing it, though.
Asking someone questions when they are asking for advice is normal. | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 6:18:55 PM |
Empowerment of people, lifting them up and maybe helping to mentor/guide them to more positive changes in their lives from this point forward is in my opinion, far more beneficial than pointing out to them the errors of their past ways.
Or it can be called 'enabling'... allowing them to shirk their responsibilities... have kid, sure, go on Maury... all your friends in school will tune in... "You are NOT the father...." Not a problem, The welfare state will support my kid...."
Sure let's all agree with the excuses these people make... won't that be nice...? Shall we keep recycling the problems by fostering a social acceptance?
Look what society did with drunk drivers...
We used to 'accept' drunk driving.... how did that work... people drank and drove and killed and maimed people... so then a new approach was tried, stigma and denial of the social acceptance that kept it in place.... Hmmm seems to be working.... sure people still drink and drive, but a lot less of them... the only ones who do, are probably beyond help...
We accept and enable women to have sex before they leave school in numbers far greater than any other generation...we hand them condoms... It's easier for a kid to get a condom than you might think.... we don't tell them what to do with them though.... then smile and accept and enable them to get STD's, and raise children as single parents in droves.... and the next generatiohn will know nothing other than that... to hell with being nice, it's about time someone did start saying, "This is not acceptable behaviour...." instead of mollycoddling.... | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 6:44:12 PM | I asked should I let him see her or no?
Note: why are people getting out of this topic and arguing why I had the baby, why I did this, and that...????
I had her period. She is healthy and happy... I just wonder if I should let him see her before court, or should I wait for the court to say when, how and where. ( that is my question)
As other people have said on here hun, people do have the capacity to change and he deserves the right to prove himself. If he takes this chance and destroys it then he does not deserve to be in her life. I disagree that children do not need fathers THEY DO and I would never deny my girls' dad contact with them even if I was in your situation. However, as he does take drugs, I would insist on supervised contact until he can prove that he has stopped all that (drug tests?) and if you are going to arrange for him to see her beforehand, I would ask for someone in authority to supervise (im in the UK we call it social services here if youre in the US maybe its called something else). If he wants to see her and promises to clean himself up, please dont deny him that, she will not thank you for it when she grows up.
And to the rest of you having your little arguments on this thread grow up and get lost if you do not have constructive advice for this girl - she came here to ask help not to get a lecture!!! | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 7:18:05 PM | We accept and enable women to have sex before they leave school in numbers far greater than any other generation...we hand them condoms... It's easier for a kid to get a condom than you might think.... we don't tell them what to do with them though.... then smile and accept and enable them to get STD's, and raise children as single parents in droves.... and the next generatiohn will know nothing other than that... to hell with being nice, it's about time someone did start saying, "This is not acceptable behaviour...." instead of mollycoddling..
Exactly. I would go even further, though. Even when sex education is spoon fed to them, there are many, many teens who get pregnant on purpose, because they want to have a baby. Many of these teen mothers think what makes a good mother is mostly about keeping your child clean and dressed in clean clothes. Many of these teens do not give nearly enough thought to how they will pay for the child's needs, rent, food, etc. Some of the reasons they don't marry (and they are too young to marry just as they are too young for parenthood) include the fact that they do not expect their boyfriends to remain faithful, hold a job, not to be violent towards them, or stay off drugs.
Most of them do want to get married, but not until they can be sure their boyfriends will stop these behaviors. What society should do is at least explain/encourage them to wait for child bearing until the men stop these behaviors, just as they wait for marriage for them to stop. Also, these teens should be encouraged to finish their educations and become financially self sufficient before childbearing. Interestingly, these same criteria are also included in what the teens say they want to accomplish before they marry.
Hopefully the original poster will think about these things and choose a better quality partner the next time she wants to date, and hopefully she will delay having her second child until she can parent without as much stress as she is experiencing now with her ex. | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 7:37:33 PM | I see the point of teen mothers needing a good wake-up call to avoid repeating the same mistakes over and over.
But this young mother can not step into her time-machine and undo her birth.
So while we all may be of different opinions on ow she should handle this ordeal, perhaps we could encourage her and other young mothers to be the best they can be.
Telling young moms how stupid they were does no good to them OR their child.
Encouraging them to be better people in the now and in the future can do a world of good.
I was a teen mother as well, and i am sooooooo beyond grateful that my family and peers chose to tell me how great i could BECOME, not how bad i was in the past.
And i did become rather great (pats myself on the back).
If everyone had told me i was a dumb twat of a loser kid, i might have started believing it, thus not bothering with ever trying to better myself.
I got 4 wownderful gifts from my mother upon my daughters birth;
a ride to the doctors office to get BC pills, and a woman to woman talk on how to use them correctly.
A note left on the table that said : I love you. I will watch the baby tomorrow while you go find a job.
A book on investing
Hope for the future.
OP: i think the father should be sober and able to prove so before he can be left with a child. Drug abuse has no place in a childs life, father or not. | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 9:00:46 PM |
she came here to ask help not to get a lecture!!!
By soliciting the advice of others, you leave yourself open to lecture. | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 9:07:26 PM |
Many of these teen mothers think what makes a good mother is mostly about keeping your child clean and dressed in clean clothes.
The worst part about this is that our society has been preaching just this. | |
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Posted: 7/3/2009 9:33:59 PM | I think it's important for people to speak openly and honestly about ' intent and mindset' because it allows one to calculate the likelihood of outcomes. So, poster...that's why some people are really jumping on you here. To get you to calculate BETTER because it doesn't seem like you have up to now.
This topic keeps coming up because we don't tell our young people, in ways they can truly understand (you know, REALLY keeping it real!), that people don't change unless they have a HUGE, life-altering event (near-death, jail, death of close friend/relative) or after many, many years of hard-knocks.
It would have probably been very easy for one of us to predict how your guy was going to act by looking at his actions (without the rose-colored glasses of 'love'): He didn't have a father (or not a good one), he lived rent-free at home after age 19, he wasn't in collge/didn't work/worked a low-paying job with no concrete future plan, spent all his money on car/motorcycle/partying (never saved), went out with his friends ALL THE TIME, you never saw him even GLANCE at another kid EVER! You probably had issues with other girls calling his cell/he disappears/keeps in touch with his ex....all that kind of stuff are good precursors of all his behavior NOW.
Go back and read my previous post for the blueprint for what will be happening for the next 18 years unless YOU CHANGE! | |
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Posted: 7/4/2009 7:49:43 AM | (im in the UK we call it social services here if youre in the US maybe its called something else). If he wants to see her and promises to clean himself up, please dont deny him that, she will not thank you for it when she grows up.
The OP is a Canadian, so maybe you'd have some resources which she can investigate.
I agree with your post whole heartedly. Oh in the States we call it Social Services as well, a bit nicer then Welfare. Actually it is TANAF Temporary Assistance for Needed Families. Anyway I wish her loads of luck and happiness in the future. | |
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Posted: 7/4/2009 11:27:23 AM | This topic keeps coming up because we don't tell our young people, in ways they can truly understand (you know, REALLY keeping it real!), that people don't change unless they have a HUGE, life-altering event (near-death, jail, death of close friend/relative) or after many, many years of hard-knocks.
Telling young moms how stupid they were does no good to them OR their child.
As I saw this today, it seemed appropriate too....
Today's motto: Dearly beloved, We are gathered here today to bid farewell to personal responsibility and accountability. | |
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Posted: 7/4/2009 11:38:01 AM | | Church it is about the individual on how he or she handles the situation of being a single parent. Neither you are or I would fall into, entitlement catorgory. However, getting back to this young ladies problem. She wanted to know if it would be a good idea to have dad visit the infant. Due his personal choices it I advise against it, until he is able to make better choices for himself. | |
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Posted: 7/4/2009 11:51:41 AM |
Empowerment of people, lifting them up and maybe helping to mentor/guide them to more positive changes in their lives from this point forward is in my opinion, far more beneficial than pointing out to them the errors of their past ways.
Or it can be called 'enabling'... allowing them to shirk their responsibilities
No, enabling is allowing someone to shirk their responsibilities period. I never suggested in my comment that someone should be enabled.
Saying poor baby, of course it is not your fault that your in this situation, you are doing everything right..... that is enabling.
Saying you know what, you made a mistake, now to need to accept the responsibility and do the best you can do to turn a bad situation into a good situation and here is how you might be able to do that..... that is mentoring/guiding someone to more positive changes in their lives from this point forward . Bashing someone for the choices they made yesterday only serves to try and make them feel badly for themselves, ashamed even....not a great way to encourage someone to rise above the choices they made yesterday (which are done anyway...they cannot be changed).
Mentoring/guiding/parenting someone before they made a bad choice is of course the most effective but just because someone makes an error in judgement does not automatically ensure they will continue to do so if they are able to see the error of their way and made a conscious choice to do differently in the future. Maybe you are ready to write off all people who make poor choices....I'm simply not willing to do that. | |
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Posted: 7/4/2009 2:10:39 PM |
Saying you know what, you made a mistake, now to need to accept the responsibility and do the best you can do to turn a bad situation into a good situation and here is how you might be able to do that..... that is mentoring/guiding someone to more positive changes in their lives from this point forward . Bashing someone for the choices they made yesterday only serves to try and make them feel badly for themselves, ashamed even....not a great way to encourage someone to rise above the choices they made yesterday (which are done anyway...they cannot be changed).
Fair enough. However, what you or others may view as bashing may be just someone trying to say, "you know what, you made a mistake", but the person they are talking to may not believe they've made a mistake. This would cause the first person to explain in more detail why the other person has made a mistake. It's hard to get to the second, more helpful part if you cannot get past the first part, because the person you are talking to may be too defensive.
Mentoring/guiding/parenting someone before they made a bad choice is of course the most effective but just because someone makes an error in judgement does not automatically ensure they will continue to do so if they are able to see the error of their way and made a conscious choice to do differently in the future. Maybe you are ready to write off all people who make poor choices....I'm simply not willing to do that.
You are right, but sometimes the difficulty arises when you are trying to show someone the error of their ways. | |
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Posted: 7/4/2009 6:06:12 PM | | Future, when someone feels under attack, what is the most likely position they will take? Will they become defensive or will they be open to suggestion? | |
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Posted: 7/4/2009 9:13:22 PM |
Future, when someone feels under attack, what is the most likely position they will take? Will they become defensive or will they be open to suggestion?
Most of the people who get the brunt of "lecturing" are the ones making excuses for their actions, plenty of which appear to be fabrications to defend their choices. If they are defending their actions in any way, saying it wasn't their fault, then they are in denial.
Someone who has accepted that they made a mistake, and wants to climb back onto a good path won't be flying off the handle about how it wasn't their fault, or going on about how they wouldn't change a thing because everything is just peachy perfect when it really isn't at all. | |
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Posted: 7/5/2009 8:52:05 AM |
Why do you consider it luck that you escaped from your environment?
I consider it lucky that I did something different with my experience, I never had an opportunity given to me, I had to fight and work hard for it all, any positive role models, I have absolutely no idea why I did so well at school or in my career, when none of my siblings did (I was the oldest child), I set a precedent in my family and I have absolutely no idea why I thought, and continue to think, differently from the rest of my family.....
I'm loathe to call it some kind of divine intervention, luck is the closest I can come to explaining why it was different for me. | |
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Posted: 7/5/2009 9:09:20 AM |
I consider it lucky that I did something different with my experience, I never had an opportunity given to me, I had to fight and work hard for it all, any positive role models, I have absolutely no idea why I did so well at school or in my career, when none of my siblings did (I was the oldest child), I set a precedent in my family and I have absolutely no idea why I thought, and continue to think, differently from the rest of my family.....
I'm loathe to call it some kind of divine intervention, luck is the closest I can come to explaining why it was different for me.
Don't sell yourself short by calling it fortuitous. You chose to work hard and be something better than what your family expected of you and themselves. | |
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