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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?      Home login  
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 exogenist
Joined: 6/10/2009
Msg: 151
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Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?Page 7 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
We know pythagarous, euclid, euler, blaise pascal but do we know?

Hypatia of Alexandria-
Gabrielle Émilie-
Maria Gaetana Agnesi-
Sophie Germain-

Or how about my favorite Amalie Emma Noether:


Noether was an innovative researcher who made several major advances in abstract algebra, including a new theory of ideals, the inverse Galois problem, and the general theory of commutative rings. She originated novel reasoning methods, especially one based on "chain conditions," which advanced invariant theory and abstract algebra; her insistence on generalization led to a unified theory of modules and Noetherian rings; some of her work anticipated modern category theory. Her invention of homology groups revolutionized topology.

Really now women aren't good at math?

I've met astoundingly brilliant female minds who made me feel so stupid I was depressed around them. Diva is also a brilliant mind. But a crazy generalization such as a female will never be as good as the best male mathematician?...Who is the best mathematician? Can there even be a best mathematician? Sure the greatest mathematical thinkers were predominantly male but you have to wonder. For much of human history females were not encouraged to do math. It was always thought of as a male thing. Even in this forum with thinking like "women aren't good at math".

How about we encourage women to do math and stop acting like its a thing for dudes?
 nevaagin
Joined: 4/8/2009
Msg: 152
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/28/2009 1:23:41 AM
I have been reading about a woman called Vera Rubin ... yes in "Wrinkles in Time ' ... who in between breast feeding her babies 'embarked on a series of observations that would undermine orthodox views of the universe ' . She was onl y 23 when she began her observations and conclusions .Within a couple of years of the publication of her paper , dark matter had become an obssession among cosmologists . Her photo shows a pretty young woman at work and yet ...[ as I have learnt , things must have moved along further to her work ].. she did all this whilst carrying , giving birth to chidren , breast feeding them ! I'm sure you all know more about her ... but my point is that there is nothing that will stop a woman in her quest for knowledge , nothing that makes her inferior to a man ... except a silly woman who gives way to her husband or partners's undermining , often sooo subtle, of her confidence !
 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 153
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Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/28/2009 3:05:52 AM
Diva,

I thought you might say that all science is for the betterment of humanity to which I will tell you an old joke.

Whats the difference between a mechanical and a civil engineer?
A mechanical engineer makes bombs.
A civil engineer makes targets.

So there you go not all science is purely good. But what I meant having a immdiate impact on the individual. It goes to a womans motherly instincts. This is not true in all cases.

Aviation is just merely getting a machine in the air. It is a neutral science.

Oh Einstein's wife helped him prefect the theory of realitivity. Both the general and special.
 divagreen
Joined: 9/26/2008
Msg: 154
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/28/2009 4:18:41 AM
Thank you exo and jenny! I send you both much love! (You too gadget!)

Jenny, when are you coming to Winston so we can hang?


I thought you might say that all science is for the betterment of humanity to which I will tell you an old joke.


I thought you might pick up the fact that I used quotation marks for "betterment", to convey its dubious meaning...


So there you go


Do not "there you go" me, in that tone of typing. (Notice the use of quotation marks. Now ask your self "why?")

Thank you for the clarification on Aviation being a neutral science...

Gadge, your points are becoming convoluted and I am starting to lose sight of what your stance is.
 novascotialass
Joined: 2/4/2007
Msg: 155
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Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/28/2009 4:39:14 AM

We know pythagarous, euclid, euler, blaise pascal but do we know?


Or Elsie MacGill, who obtained a phD in aeronautical engineering during the early 20th century (after being thrown out of UBC for being a woman in engineering) and went on to design aircraft and supervise the production of Hawker Hurricanes during the second world war...Plus, she suffered from polio right as she graduated with her masters degree, was bed-ridden for several years, and disabled for most of her life.

Elsie was unusual in that she had a family who did not inhibit her interests in a man's science.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 156
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Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/28/2009 5:50:25 AM
After painfully reading so many sexist and misogynistic observations in this thread, it is clear that it is a microcosm of the real world of academia, and illustrates how men are seemingly duty bound to slap "uppity" women down. It's only been in the last century that women were allowed to vote and move toward equality in our culture. The glass ceiling remains as the good ole boy network goes into overtime when threatened with too much equality.

A friend of mine, a PHD in Anthropology, was recently denied tenure for the crime of reporting sexual harrassment in her department. Charges against her were manufactured, Homeland Security and the FBI were called in to investigate her, and a concerted campaign by the good old boys proved effective at ruining her career, making her lose her home, and having to move. It did not matter that HS and the FBI exonerated her, that a peer review exhonerated her, and colleagues gave glowing testimonials. She would not be forgiven for bringing sexual harrassment to light. Her case is all too common in male dominated academia.

The Knoxville chapter of the American Association of University Professors) in 2001 noted:

“Women are underrepresented at almost all ranks and in almost all academic units. Women comprise only 29% of all UT faculty, and only about 20% of these are tenured. There are approximately 358 women and 857 men. The gap is greatest at the full professor level where on the UTK campus women hold only 66 of the 476 full professor positions. While there are slightly more women associate professors (n=98), any trend toward increased representation seems questionable given there are currently only 77 women assistant professors. In a stepwise progression, it is these 77 women assistant professors who will, hopefully, become the full professors of the university a decade hence. This constitutes barely a replacement rate. Given the pervasive imbalance in numbers, almost every major career milestone for women is largely defined and evaluated by men.”
 quietjohn2
Joined: 12/6/2004
Msg: 157
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Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/28/2009 3:10:52 PM
This is a link to a whole list of women mathematicians. http://www.agnesscott.edu/Lriddle/women/women.htm. Some of whom were the heads of Mathematics at (even mixed-sex) universities, presidents and vice-presidents of illustrious mathematical societies such as the American Mathematical Society, Statistical Society of Canada, members of the National Academy of Sciences. The etnic mix is broad, seemingly covering all of the major races and nations of the world. One is even a current Actress and blonde - besides being a reader in mathematics at the University of York in England. So much for stereotypes!
And several of these women are acknowledged to be some of the greatest mathematical minds the world has ever produced Lynn Osen's Women in Mathematics covers an extensive history suggesting prejudice against women in math and the sciences has it's root in ancient history as far back as Pythagorean Greece.
One interesting nugget I didn't know was that Florence Nightingale was a mathematician.
In 1840, Florence Nightingale begged her parents "to let her study mathematics instead of doing worsted work and practicing quadrilles." Her mother "did not approve, home duties were not to be neglected for mathematics." She assumed that her daughter's destiny was marriage, "and what use were mathematics to a married woman?" Her father, who loved math and had communicated that love to his daughter, nevertheless urged her to study more appropriate subjects (for a woman), "history or philosophy, natural or moral." Florence expressed her preference for mathematics by saying, "I don't think I shall succeed so well in anything that requires quickness as in what requires only work." [1] Her parents finally granted permission. Years later, her mathematical approach saved the British army at Scutari during the Crimean war and provided the data that led to hospital reforms.....
As Nightingale demonstrated, statistics provided an organized way of learning and lead to improvements in medical and surgical practices. She also developed a Model Hospital Statistical Form for hospitals to collect and generate consistent data and statistics. She became a Fellow of the Royal Statistical Society in 1858 and an honorary member of the American Statistical Association in 1874. Karl Pearson acknowledged Nighingale as a "prophetess" in the development of applied statistics.
.
 techgirl27
Joined: 9/5/2005
Msg: 158
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Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/28/2009 4:50:31 PM
I'm about to be one of them. In fact I'm having to brush up on my math this weekend for a qual. this coming week. Got into grad school for a computer science program. Maybe I'll be able to start shooting at the glass ceiling pretty soon? The generation ahead of me is full of looming retirements.........
 novascotialass
Joined: 2/4/2007
Msg: 159
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Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/29/2009 5:46:39 AM
Here's the story of the inventor of Kevlar. One of the women in that era that didn't succumb to the pressure to go into a woman's field:


Stephanie Kwolek was born in 1923 in New Kensington, Pennsylvania. She had a penchant as a child for exploring the natural world with her father, collecting wildflowers and seeds for her scrapbook. She also developed an interest in technology by making clothes. "When I was six," she recalled, "I loved to use my mother's sewing machine. I was forbidden to use the sewing machine, but I would sneak in when my mother went shopping." 34

In 1942, Kwolek enrolled at the Carnegie Institute of Technology (now Carnegie-Mellon University). She majored in chemistry and minored in biology, hoping to enter medical school after earning her bachelor's degree. With that in mind, she took a job at DuPont to build savings for her further education. She never carried out that plan, though.

"When I joined DuPont in 1946," Kwolek remarked, "women were having a very difficult time in science. Women who got jobs in the lab would stay only a few years; they were encouraged to move into so-called 'women's fields.' They were not promoted as rapidly as the men--women I know, even Ph.D. women, lasted about two or three years, and then went back to teaching, frequently at a women's college. But there were some of us who decided to stick it out, and I was one."

Kwolek's work focused on polymers, the long, chain molecules at the base of synthetic fibers like nylon. She concentrated on finding polymers that would dissolve at low heat so they could be spun into fibers at room temperature. When she was assigned to research extra strong and stable polymers in 1964, she turned to liquid crystal solutions in which all the molecules line up in one direction--like a string of pearls, as she often described it. Her experiments yielded a solution unlike any she'd ever seen. While most polymer solutions were thick and clear, like syrup, this was thin and hazy-looking. Its milky texture made the technician nervous about putting the solution into the fiber-making machine, called a spinneret. He thought there probably were solid particles that would clog up the spinneret's fine holes. But Kwolek convinced him that the solution was safe to spin, and the resulting fibers were exceptionally strong--much stronger than steel, in fact.

Today, Kevlar is found in a range of products, from bullet-resistant vests to ropes that anchor oil rigs to the ocean floor to skis. And Stephanie Kwolek, who retired in 1986 with 17 patents to her name and was inducted into the National Inventors Hall of Fame in 1995, doesn't regret not making it to medical school. "Most chemists," she said, "work all their lives . . . and are never able to participate in a discovery that has done so much good as Kevlar."
 quietjohn2
Joined: 12/6/2004
Msg: 160
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Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/29/2009 7:48:22 AM
Your post raises another relevant isuue, novascotialass.... That women participated significantly in the workforce until many were forcibly removed at the end of World War II in order to make jobs for the returning troops. Perhaps what we have today is a lingering prejudice from those times. And one which some males may see as an opportunity to reduce their job competition by half.
Personally, I see radical differences between males and females, even in the ways their brains may work. But that doesn't disqualify them from any endeavor. Group profiling is a wonderful way of dismissing exceptional people from consideration, thereby undermining our opportunities to do the best we can. Having said that, it is just as unacceptable to (mis)guide youngsters into careers which hold little interest for them. It seems good advice to encourage them to discover and follow the things that interest them and then help them to find people who are willing to pay them well to do those things.
 freakshow89
Joined: 6/25/2009
Msg: 161
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/29/2009 2:12:53 PM
I've noticed that in my college, most female math and Science majors were foreign students. They usually came from China, India and Eastern European countries like Bulgaria and Lithuania. In the US, I'd blame the HS education system. High schools here are so easy, in comparision to China, England, France. The teachers literally spoon feed you, you get lesson plans and handouts until the 12th grade. Its pathetic really. Sure, the students get hands on experience with projects, but it is so watered down. They get insane amount of help from the teachers. This is great for the smarter, brilliant students because they were smart to begin with. But the average to poor students lose out in the bargain. This is because when College happens, it is nothing like HS. There, you have to take your own notes, do your reading before hand, solve your own problems, no teacher will spoon feed you, you can't go to the professor for silly reasons.

Sadly, most girls here are not interested in math and science to begin with and this just makes easier for them to pick a different major in college. If this wasn't the case why would the majority of previous pre-med female student change their major to psychology in her sophomore year. I say HS needs to be a lot tougher than what it is now so that they don't have to face cold hard reality in College.
 quietjohn2
Joined: 12/6/2004
Msg: 162
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Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/29/2009 2:55:41 PM
An interesting take on Medical Schools which has been a concern for some time. According to one source (Fiorentine & Cole (1992) Why fewer women become physicians: Explaining the premed persistence gap. Sociological Forum Volume 7, 469 - 496.) "contemporary gender norms offer women fewer disincentives to changing or lowering their high-status career goals when encountering hardship, self-doubt, and the possibility of failure." http://www.springerlink.com/content/m14600778m322333.This may also play into the decisions related to the daughters of the OP.

According to another source, female docttors will soon outnumber male doctors, (Cooper, Richard A. (2003) Impact of Trends in Primary, Secondary, and Postsecondary Education on Applications to Medical School.. Academic Medicine Volume 78 - Issue 9 - pp 855-863).

As for the education system, the US system always seems to have had a reputation for poor quality. Even in universities, the average US undergraduate seems rather lacklustre and disinterested, yet the product of that education has led the US to its current predominant position among world economies.
 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 163
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Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/29/2009 3:44:13 PM
Diva, I missed the qutotation marks. The point is there are women in science. If not what we consider tradtionally science. I would also, state that there is no inate ablity of either gender to preform mathmatical calcuations.

I'm on a borrow computer so it may be a bit till I can respond further.
 divagreen
Joined: 9/26/2008
Msg: 164
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/29/2009 8:00:16 PM

Diva, I missed the qutotation marks.


I "knew" you would!


The point is there are women in science.





If not what we consider tradtionally science.



Gadget, meet Marie Curie. Marie Curie meet gadget. He has been anxious to make your acquaintance.

Oh, I know, her direction in the treatment of cancers can be arguably an empathetic science. But just because she can multitask, does not undermine her achievements in "traditional science".


I would also, state that there is no inate ablity of either gender to preform mathmatical calcuations.


All this is does is, "out" you as a REALLY NICE GUY.

I am not being sarcastic, I am being sincere.

He is really, and truly, a decent gentleman.
 novascotialass
Joined: 2/4/2007
Msg: 165
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Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/30/2009 5:53:15 AM
And eventually in the lab , things will balance out and women won't be 'come on to ' so much and finally not at all . This is evolution . The feminists knew this and risked a lot of ridicule to try to change the attitude of inequality between men and women . And it's finally working .


I don't know why labs are being singled out as a workplace where women are being hit upon because they are "distractions". I don't personally work in a lab, but I found the whole idea of the sexes not being able to work together in highly stressful professions insulting to men and women. People in the medical profession, for example, have been saving people's lives for years and doing so side by side with the opposite sex.

Besides, there is a difference between sexual harrassment, where the boss is using his or her position of power to put employees in compromising positions, and people actually forming relationships that blossom outside the workplace. The former is something that obviously is unacceptable and one would hope will happen with less and less frequency; however, to expect that men and women won't continue to find lasting relationships in any workplace is probably unrealistic and in my opinion would not be evolutionary at all.
 CrumblePie
Joined: 1/11/2009
Msg: 166
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/30/2009 6:04:28 AM
My guess, i don;t know how ignorant it is, if at all, is that men can consentrate/focus on one single idea better than women, which is needed in those fields. Women tend to juggle and sort thoughts better.

That's a difference i've always been taught and seen between us.
 castraphe
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 167
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/30/2009 2:51:56 PM
The reason there has been less women in math and sciences has nothing to do with ability, but with priorities, and these priorities have come from cultural conditioning. But this is definitely changing - it really has only been one generation of women that has actually grown up in the post-feminist world, and so the realities of past cultural attitudes are still very much alive. Old ways don't just disappear when new ways come in. I have a high aptitude for science and math, but was more interested in art for philosophical reasons, even though science was easier for me.
 tbuddha
Joined: 2/28/2005
Msg: 168
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/30/2009 8:25:54 PM
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.....

It blows my mind how propagandized people are today. Women just plain aren't wired the same way men are. It's as if people think our only differences are our genitalia. I can prove you all wrong right now - check out the other posts in this science and philosophy forum and count how many men post here on various topics as opposed to women.

In general, women aren't as good at making logical decisions. I can pull out some rare exceptions to any rule. I mean how many times are people gonna use Marie Curie? The lady who understood radiation so much she died from it? Let's put that against the millions of male inventors/scientists that didn't let their work kill them. The fact that women are even trying to make the argument proves the lack of logic. It doesn't take a study. Just go to any workplace where they are using hard science and count people of each gender. Shop for any kind of engineer and you are sure to talking to a bunch of men. Sure, you can find women in these fields, but many are there to fulfill quotas and like I said there are always exceptions.

It's like asking why there aren't more men into shopping for sexy underwear. Sure, because of feminism there are a lot more sissified men who do just that, but that isn't the norm.
 tbuddha
Joined: 2/28/2005
Msg: 169
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/30/2009 8:59:29 PM
Sure, sure...and you couldn't debate even one issue that I brought up. You gave a couple exceptions you looked up on wikipedia or probably googled "women science". LOL

Again, do your own study. Look at how many women post in the science/philosophy forum as compared to men.
 castraphe
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 170
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/30/2009 9:06:12 PM
Blah blah blah? You expect anyone to take you seriously when that's your response? Or are you just pointing out the pointlessness of your endless antagonism?

What's amazing is how propagandized YOU are into being blinded by the fact that women have been kept out of the public sphere for millenia. You can't argue against it, it's a fact. It hasn't even been a century since women were even allowed to vote. It IS logical that women have not reached the same equal status as men and have to deal with the fact that they have to give up at least a year of their adult life to continue the propagation of the species while men can get by with a few minutes.

So I'll bite then, there are tendencies that exist in some specialized forms of thought, but as far as my schooling went, the guys pretty much sucked at everything academic, including math. None of them could handle being in a language immersion program and dwindled down to about 20% of the program by the time we graduated. So why aren't you pointing out the opposite end of the argument, that men suck at language? Instead you just use derogatory, specifically sexual comparisons against women to show how utterly disgusted you are by the other half of your species. It's commendable that you can even put together sentences, based on how poor men tend to be in communication. I went to art school, and the men there were as creative as the women. The one science class we all had to take I got an A in, and all of the men I knew in the class just barely scraped by. Men who aren't good at logic and science aren't sissified, they have different brains than you do.

Math was always easy for me, but it's useless until it is applied to reality. Logic is a tool, but it has serious shortcomings when it comes to real life and human society. Since women have had to keep other fragile small human beings alive they have had to develop important holistic ways of thinking, instead of a specialized mathematical focus. Without women doing this work for the last few thousand years we'd all be dead. Your references to women's things such as shopping for underwear and pregnancy is so disgustingly misogynist. The fact that you have an extreme form of male brain that makes you incapable of empathy is frightening and sad. Thank god there are more balanced individuals from both genders.

"Logic is a sword. Those who ascribe to it will perish by it."
 tbuddha
Joined: 2/28/2005
Msg: 171
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/30/2009 9:23:18 PM
I say "blah blah blah" because you state opinions as fact, while ignoring the obvious. You have bought into feminism and it shows!

You still avoided the fact that this forum is 90% men and that men dominate the hard sciences. Apparently, wherever you live a lot of men are gelded.
 castraphe
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 172
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/30/2009 9:33:54 PM
You're ignoring the obvious fact that men have held political domination over women, you're pretending as though it never happened, when it's true. Your misogynistic bias shows through very blatantly. I am just telling you my experience, I said I always found math easy at school and that makes me a feminist? Whatever. If you actually care about hard facts and objectivity then stick to them instead of being totally disrespectful and chauvinistic. It's not my fault you have issues with feminism. Get over it. Start showing a balanced perspective, instead of blowing the possibility of a slight biological difference into a huge social rant against people who disagree with you.
 divagreen
Joined: 9/26/2008
Msg: 173
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/30/2009 9:46:36 PM
@ nevaagin and castraphe

Props to you both...excellent posts.


Women just plain aren't wired the same way men are.


Most people haven't said that they were.


check out the other posts in this science and philosophy forum and count how many men post here on various topics as opposed to women.


I agree. It couldn't possibly have to do with the...ahem...I cannot even finish this sentence with a straight face...


Let's put that against the millions of male inventors/scientists that didn't let their work kill them.


Do so, and work the ratio...


The fact that women are even trying to make the argument proves the lack of logic.


The fact that you say:


Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.....


Displays your lack of logic in this debate. (Read...you are coming from a place of emotionalism. It happens to everyone...)


Sure, you can find women in these fields, but many are there to fulfill quotas and like I said there are always exceptions.


Suuuurrreee...I can't even go there. Too easy...


Sure, because of feminism there are a lot more sissified men who do just that, but that isn't the norm.


Thump your chest and we shall call you "HE-MAN"!

Your logic is still flawed...
 exogenist
Joined: 6/10/2009
Msg: 174
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Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/30/2009 9:58:27 PM
@thudda Why do you believe so strongly about feminism and the way women work? You say there are not good at math, so what? What does it mean exactly? I get really annoyed when a women says a man is not generally good with children, or when a woman says all men are dogs (within my environment and culture anyway). But really it doesn't matter. I can be a good father if I want too. I am not a dog. That is enough reason for me not to be stereotyped.


It blows my mind how propagandized people are today. Women just plain aren't wired the same way men are. It's as if people think our only differences are our genitalia. I can prove you all wrong right now - check out the other posts in this science and philosophy forum and count how many men post here on various topics as opposed to women.


Not really. All you've pointed out is an outcome. Your reason for that outcome fails with logic because it doesn't explain "why" the forums are filled with so many men. Actually you have a reason. It's becuase:


In general, women aren't as good at making logical decisions.


The amount of men on the science forum compared to women doesn't count. Do you know how many women are reading this and not commenting for some reason? Maybe they realize this is a dating site and whish to talk about matters pertaining to dating. Have you considered theamount of women in the dating section of these forums? My point is that unless you provide scientific data in consideration to your claim then your claim is illogical. Since you used the proof that there are more men than women in this section of the forum then it must mean that men are more scientifically inclined (because I don't see one thread in the science and philosophy section that focuses on math and logic...I whish there was though :(...it must mean by your claim that not only are women less logical but less scientific).

I obviously do not agree with this and here is why:


At the University of Wisconsin, Janet Shibley Hyde has compiled meta-analytical studies on this topic for more than 10 years. By using this approach, which aggregates research findings from many studies, Hyde has boiled down hundreds of inquiries into one simple conclusion: The sexes are more the same than they are different.

At the University of Wisconsin, Janet Shibley Hyde has compiled meta-analytical studies on this topic for more than 10 years. By using this approach, which aggregates research findings from many studies, Hyde has boiled down hundreds of inquiries into one simple conclusion: The sexes are more the same than they are different.

In a 2005 report, Hyde compiled meta-analyses on sex differences not only in cognition but also communication style, social or personality variables, motor behaviors and moral reasoning. In half the studies, sex differences were small; in another third they were almost non-existent. Thus, 78 percent of gender differences are small or close to zero. What's more, most of the analyses addressed differences that were presumed to be reliable, as in math or verbal ability.

At the end of 2005, Harvard University's Elizabeth Spelke reviewed 111 studies and papers and found that most suggest that men's and women's abilities for math and science have a genetic basis in cognitive systems that emerge in early childhood but give men and women on the whole equal aptitude for math and science. In fact, boy and girl infants were found to perform equally well as young as six months on tasks such as addition and subtraction (babies can do this, but not with pencil and paper!)


If you want further information you can locate it here http://forums.plentyoffish.com/addpost.aspx?PostID=13037121&x=39&y=9

Personally I think the difference with men and women in the sciences are more due to culture and environment than genetics. Basically part of the problem is stereotypes like women are just not wired for math (I know you never said that but its along the same lines). I don't like stereotypes from either feminist or men. I am who am I, and I am not determined by a generality. It is an offense similar to most people living in the ghetto are just thugs. It is similar to a young dude walking on the street (whether black or white) only to witness a middle aged women crossing the road and doing the double take. Its similar to walking into a store and obviously being followed by the store clerk. Its similar to doing well on a test in school and being labeled nerd. Its just really annoying and not nice.

With that said, I totally and wholeheartedly disagree with your claim.
 castraphe
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 175
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/30/2009 10:03:18 PM
From the American Mathematical Society - July 2005

The comments of Harvard University president Lawrence Summers have brought renewed attention to the participation of women in mathematics and science. A new study to be released on July 6 offers data showing that women are participating in mathematics in greater numbers than ever before.

The study, carried out by the American Mathematical Society in cooperation with three other national organizations, shows that women received close to one-third of all doctorates that were granted in the mathematical sciences in the U.S. during the academic year 2003-2004, the most recent year for which data are available. A total of 333 women received mathematical sciences PhDs that year, the largest number ever recorded since the AMS began gathering statistics on women PhDs more than 30 years ago.

These numbers reflect a longstanding trend of increasing participation by women in the mathematical sciences. The percentage of women receiving PhDs in the field has risen steadily, from around 15 percent in the early 1980s, to the low 20-percent range in the early 1990s, to around 30 percent in recent years.

What is more, women are excelling in the top mathematics departments in the nation. Using rankings published by the National Research Council, the study aggregates data from the 48 top mathematics departments. Women received 25 percent of all doctorates granted by these departments in 2003-2004, up from 21 percent the previous year.

There are other signs that women are making gains in mathematics. Since the early 1990s, women have been receiving around 45 percent of all bachelor's degrees in the subject. Recent years have seen substantial strides by female students in activities such as the Mathematical Olympiad, which is a highly challenging competition for high school students, and the Putnam Competition, which is aimed at undergraduate mathematics majors. In previous years, the high scorers in these competitions were all male.


There's a nice logical factual article for you. tbuddha you should know better than to rely on anecdotal evidence, how unscientific of you. You also have not been giving any proof of showing that the differences in women's interest in these subjects is biological as opposed to social. Repeating "it's obvious! You're all brainwashed by feminism!" is hardly a valid argument. The very fact that you are so afraid of feminism shows you must give some credence to social change having an effect on individuals - why else would you say the men in my area are gelded? I gave you an opportunity to agree that perhaps women are better at language, which is the flip side of saying men are better at maths. Maybe the guys in the regular English program were the ones doing well in math ... I'll never know the truth of my own anecdote.
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