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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/3/2009 7:17:31 AM |
My dream of having a family will go up in smoke now that you've killed it... It was merely a reality check. I have two twenty-something daughters and sometimes they tell me about getting "grossed out" because "an old guy" (usually in his mid 30's) hits on them, their friends are the same. Read some of the threads here, there are many older gentleman (hey I'm older than you are!) who want a younger woman to have children with or to marry. I'm not saying you won't find one, perhaps, just realize it's not all that common.
I have dreams too, but I also know the reality that it will take to make my dreams come true. And none of them are dependent on anyone else (as far as a relationship, marriage and definitely not children). | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/3/2009 7:19:33 AM | The friend needs to let her know that he is interested in being more than friends from the start so he doesn't get put into that position. Doing that won't necessarily guarantee those feelings being returned, but if they aren't, at least he can keep it moving, rather than wasting his time acting like a friend to some girl in hopes of getting into her pants.
This is it, really. There are no victims in a situation like this - only volunteers. If a man is an adult and knows he cannot handle a friendship that never goes anywhere, he should have the stones to admit that and refuse the offer, and be straight about why he's doing it. Most women assume that a guy knows himself enough to do this or not, so when he says he's ok with it, she takes him at his word (horror of horrors, she believes him). How this makes her the bad guy is beyond me.
If you don't want to be a friend, don't accept being just a friend if that's all you can be. Move on.. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/3/2009 8:45:08 AM | Motown girl,
Thanks for your lovely post. Very strange indeed.
You might want to ask yourself what prompted such an odd and mean spirited post.
Do you always talk this way to people you don't know? Maybe you have some issues?
I'm not sayin' you're crazy, but....whew!
You might wanna try to conceal that anger a little better if you expect to get a date in the next century. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/3/2009 9:01:07 AM |
If I have made any mistakes, it's that I'm waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too nice, available, and predictable. Women always take me for granted until it's too late.
I'm ridiculously considerate and attentive.
You're not the only one. I know how you feel about this. I had the same problem. When I was in college I never had a problem with the ladies. Dated a ton of them, dumped a ton of them. But eventually I got married and stay married and faithful for a long long time. My ex cheated on me, and we ended everything. But when I went back into the market I was way, way too nice. I could get a date any time, that was not the problem, the problem was that they liked me too much, as a friend. Hahaha. Your problem here.
After reading a ton of literature on the subject, from negging, to different styles of approach I discovered that the majority of women covet what they can't have. This is particularly true with the Hotties. Why? Because they can have everything, so all those morons drooling after them, they do not find them attractive. But this is what happened. One of these hotties became my "real" good friend and she became my wing man. That attracted a lot of other hot women, who I would then go out with and tread them as if I could care less. They had to be the ones that if they didn't call me by tuesday to see how I was doing, they would be bumped out of a date by friday. So I became the one that was hard to get. They would tell me about them going out with some dude that bought them dinner, gave them roses, and they will say these things to get me to be jealous, yet we would go dutch, or they would buy a round and I would buy the next, I never bought them flowers and in fact, I never ever complemented them on looks, and yet they slept with me, not them. Now, that doesn't mean that you didn't complement them at all, but you did find their substance and their weakness, and complement them in the areas that built self esteem that are not related to their concept of beauty. So don't complement them on how beautiful they look, but on the running she did, or her endurance, or how good she was on her attention to detail. Do you get my drift.
Why is it that the so called bad boy, or jerk seems to get the girl all the time? Because SHE has to work to get him. And he knows that something that is not the usual crap other men say about her, that completely validates her as a woman and doesn't come across as b ull sh it. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/3/2009 9:48:06 AM | Bucsgirl,
Most of the dreams that humans have involve other people.
If you're on a dating site, your dream is to find that special someone...to make your dreams come true.
Of course your dreams are dependent on other people. How could it be otherwise?
Relationship dreams are obviously tied to other people.
I realize that older women have a problem with guys who want to date younger.
I don't know what to say about that, except that there is no reason to be offended by someone else's dreams. There is a person out there for each one of us. I truly believe that. There is someone out there right now who is perfect for each and every one of us. It just takes some time to find that person. In the meantime, it might be a good idea to relax and enjoy the ride. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/3/2009 9:48:58 AM |
If a woman goes for a guy who VISIBLY and obviously treats her like crap from day one, why would you ever give such a woman a second thought?
Some of us are kinda protective. Its hard to see a nice girl making mistakes and not want to help her. Women tend to be the last to know what women want. Ive had girls tell me what they did and didnt want but they then go for what they always go for, the jerk who is confident, its usually not a mistake the guy is both.
Most women dont become friends with guys to hurt them or use them, but people often do what they dont intend. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/3/2009 9:54:36 AM | Ringo, I DO appreciate what you're saying. My friends who know me know what my dreams are and it doesn't involve a relationship with a man (or woman OR farm animal...haha..just to clear that up). But this thread isn't about me...not everyone on this site is here to "date".
I hope you are able to fulfill whatever dreams you have and I wouldn't dissuade anyone from pursuing their own happiness. If my other post came across as such it was not intended to. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/3/2009 12:50:36 PM | Silentsam,
Yeah, you're right, women don't do this on purpose. My sister didn't mean to hurt that guy.
But guys hang in thinking that they can turn it around, but they can't. Guys get blinded and keep driving right into dead ends.
I do think that women TEND(not always) to gravitate toward jerks. My three sisters are proof of this. I've watched it for years. It's the human tendency to want what we can't have.
When people see that they can have you, they don't want you anymore...or at least they give you a very low priority.
You have to guard your heart, but at the same time if you don't take any chances you'll never live a full life.
I wear my heart on my sleeve and it is NOT a good thing... | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/3/2009 5:45:53 PM | hi again ringo, whatever my issues might be, they don't require medication or counseling, nor are they any more severe than the average person walking around out there. my main issue is sarcasm and i admit i'm more sarcastic than most. it wasn't meant to be personal. i was speaking in very broad general terms about so-called "hotties". why? because i think so many of them are irredeemably stupid and/or completely lacking in integrity. as evidenced by their actual behavior, i mean. i just don't go around pulling my opinions out of a hat. and also, based on what you originally posted, i presume much of your personal experience with them has been pretty disappointing (i.e., they only want to be entertained with expensive dinners & whatnot... "they are only in love with themselves"). am i "angry" about it? no way! i'm entertained maybe, and snarky as all hell, but angry? nope.
here's the other thing i should clarify: i really don't think you should ignore women who put "friends" on their profile just because of the presence of that particular word. it does not follow that just because somebody puts "friends" on their profile, it must mean that (1) they only want to be wined and dined by guys who are willing to spend money on them; or (2) they aren't looking for something long-term and committed. *and*... they might even really have many of the same longer-term goals that you do. unless they're a "hottie", of course. then they're only after you for your $. heh heh.
i think it's important to be able to make a distinction between some pre-filled field on somebody's profile, vs. who that person really is. there have been threads on POF debating what "friends" on a profile means. in the end, you just don't know until you find out. after all, a profile is kinda like wrapping paper and you have no way of knowing what's really going on inside until you reach out and get to know the person a little better.
in the end i am only suggesting that you could very well be overlooking the woman who is just perfect for you, because she made the "mistake" of putting "friends" on her profile.
good luck!
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/3/2009 8:52:26 PM |
zuglo-Again..Not my experience...I am sexually attracted to some of my friends..
And I think they are to me...Enough said..
Next time you're in the men's room with them, see if they're checking out you while you're doing the same to them.
That's how you'll know for sure. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/4/2009 7:11:06 AM |
zuglo-Again..Not my experience...I am sexually attracted to some of my friends..
And I think they are to me...Enough said..
Next time you're in the men's room with them, see if they're checking out you while you're doing the same to them.
That's how you'll know for sure.
 Ouch...
What I should have said is I am sexually attracted to some of my FEMALE friends..
Happy???? | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/4/2009 4:20:09 PM | Honestly, I don't do the "friends" shit either with a man. All it means is he is not interested enough to be with you and not secure enough to be alone when he cuts you loose.
I prefer to be cut loose. If I have time for friends, they are more than likely gonna be women. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/4/2009 6:00:21 PM |
Only half correct. Yes that's right, it's not her fault she's not feeling it. It is the man's fault. He's doing something wrong.
That's pretty insulting. Why is it that the guy is flawed if I'm not attracted to him? Since when are my tastes flaw-worthy?
On the part of the man. He knows how to trigger a woman's responses to him and cause that thing in her called "attraction". It's the "jerk" factor, the "body language" factor, and the "cocky comedy" factor. All of these ideations are designed to flick the hard wired switches all women have in this area.
Bullshit. It's how he looks that pushes our buttons with regards to attraction. Nothing a guy does or says MAKES me attracted to him. If he has a look that does it for me, then he does. Being a good guy, smart and fun is just icing and will keep me around. if he looks right, but is a jerk-off, I won't stick around in spite of any initial attraction I had.
No one can MAKE me be attracted to them, but certain things about them can kill any attraction. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/5/2009 10:41:11 AM | Why is it that the 'bad' have to ruin it for those with 'good' intentions? I have 'friend 'posted on my profile because any solid relationship is built on friendship, whether it stays as a friendship or, grows from there. I also have friend posted because I have a son and I don't want to rush into the wrong type of relationship with the wrong man (again).....self-preservation I suppose.
I guess it's the equivalent of men posting 'Long Term' because they know that is what most women want to hear, when all they really want is to get you into bed, then move on to their next victim.
We live in a age of players, scammers and users.....people inhabiting bodies without souls. For you to use the term 'hotties' is part of the problem. If you're going to be attracted to the package, without taking the time to find out if what's inside is truly valuable, then you will continue to only find superficial, gold-digging and manipulative women. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/5/2009 1:31:18 PM | MisDeed,
What a great post. You are absolutely right about how the bad ones ruin it for everybody else, creating an atmosphere where nobody has any trust whatsoever.
I wasn't aware of the "long term" scam, but it doesn't surprise me. Actually, I heard that people who put "long term" seem too eager, and that "dating" puts people more at ease. Oh the unspoken rules.
I'm sorry if the term "hottie" insulted you. I can't help but be attracted to a nice package, but I can assure you that I do look deeper. Much deeper. If you saw the woman I recently broke up with you'd wonder where I found the strength; she was beautiful...but she wasn't for me. She wasn't meant for me, and I had to end it. I can't say that looks don't matter, but that's obviously not my sole criteria. I'm as much a creature of this media driven culture as anybody else, but I try really hard to maintain a certain authenticity.
Face it, we all want PASSION. Without passion...why bother? Agape probably isn't quite there at the start...that takes time. Eros gets the ball rolling, like it or not.
Oh, your explanation of why you are looking for "friends" sort of echoes my point in that I see it as a distancing method. You just corroborated that. Sure, in your case you call it a survival mechanism, but in any case it IS a way to keep people from getting too close, a way to make boundaries. In my experience, those boundaries are usually too hard to get past.
If everybody played for keeps, there would be no reason for this forum. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/6/2009 8:08:44 AM |
Like a dummy, for years I have been blundering into situations where the women want to be "friends". Invariably, they play on my kind heart and convince me that being their friend is a HUGE and wonderful gift.
I've also noticed that the women who pull this crap are usually hotties. (They figure that they can get away with it since demand is high.)
"Friends first and always fun!" (Translation...let's have you spend lots of money entertaining me while I sleep with somebody else.)
This little friend game keeps guys at a distance, since these women are really only in love with themselves.
From now on, if I see the word "friend" anywhere in the profile, or if I hear the word early in dating, I will quickly take my leave and not look back.
I'm not a callous person. Ideally, YES, it would be great to actually fall in love with your best friend. That's the theory these women are taking advantage of. The idea is to get you thinking that you're in the game, even when you don't have any chance whatsoever.
It baffles me that anybody can think this way, but experience has shown me the ugly truth.
You know if only someone had printed this in 1994 i would not have turned out like i am now (never trust women and CHOOSE to be single as there all users).
WHat bugs me it seems everyone knew other than me, that winds me up more than know it in the first place.... | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/6/2009 8:30:10 AM | ^^^It's interesting how people will react to extremes over stuff. There is a big difference between wanting to ALSO have a friendship with someone you're ATTRACTED to (and when you are, it's not hard to figure out) and wanting to be JUST friends.
Also, the only people who think friendship is an insult, are those who think getting laid is a doorprize for...who knows what. An investment of someone's hard earned time and energy trying to land the Holy Grail.
The word friend in itself is NOT a red flag. Unfortunately every situation is different, and in order to navigate what people mean by the word, you have to actually spend time with each person and find out. Obviously that's too much effort under the circumstances.
It's as silly as saying the last three guys I dated broke up with me and also liked pizza, so from now on all guys who mention pizza in any way shape or form - I'm outta there. lol | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/6/2009 8:32:06 AM | | Alternative solution: Go Dutch. That's right, hang out with your hottie friend or friends, have fun, split the check. If they run from you, then you know the lack of depth they have in their pool. If they stick, then you've got a firend that just happens to be hot! | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/6/2009 8:41:58 AM |
Alternative solution: Go Dutch. That's right, hang out with your hottie friend or friends, have fun, split the check. If they run from you, then you know the lack of depth they have in their pool. If they stick, then you've got a firend that just happens to be hot!
Ive only ever had ONE pay for food, i was so shocked ive not had time to think about it, nothing happened though.. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/6/2009 10:16:56 AM | It's very hard for me to make new male "friends", because a lot of them don't want to be friends only.
I'd rather stick with the females. Besides even if I was looking for male friends, using them for my own selfish reasons wouldn't even be the case.
There is always room in my life for a new friend, rather male, or female. But like I said, the males refuse to be put on a friendship level.
This is in my case of course. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/6/2009 11:36:13 AM | | lmao. yet another guy complaining he can't get at least the one that he wants half his age. while other women of childbearing age are single and childless. i choose to be alone instead of dating twice my age. at least i can go out and have fun and not be tied to an old man at home. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/6/2009 1:11:23 PM | | Yeah, when a woman says she just wants to be your friend, guess what, she actually just wants to be your friend!! I assume you believed there was some double meaning to the word? Who's fault is that, hers or yours? Also, it is a gift to be friends with cool, hot people. True friends are always a gift, especially if they help you out when you need help. Just don't expect anything sexual to evolve from their friendship. That's your dilemma, not theirs. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/6/2009 6:31:26 PM | I already conceded that the friend thing isn't something diabolical. I told the story of my sister and her friend who was sprung on her. My sister is a sweetie and didn't mean to hurt the guy. BUT, I knew it and told her so. Sometimes people just can't see.
And of course these things are tied to semantics; words have different meanings for different people. "Friend" is a very big and all encompassing word, having a multiple range of meanings.
I've actually only gotten the friend lecture twice in many years of dating, so that's probably not too bad, and I don't consider this one of the burning issues of the century.
The latest lady really did seem to be a player/user, and has many guys on her leash. I'm NOT saying that all women are like that, but the friend thing can be easily abused.
To the last post stating that it's great to have friends, yes of course that's true...but not if the guy is SPRUNG and the girl has no interest. That is sick and unhealthy, and guys have to get out quickly. We only have so many hours in the day, only so much time on this earth; you can't truly befriend everybody. From what I have seen, the people who act like that are very superficial club types, and they aren't able to get really close to anybody because they're too self absorbed and artificial. I mean the ones with 5000 "friends" on Facebook. Don't call them when you need help.
Sure, if someone offers SINCERE friendship then you'd be an ass to reject it. You need to figure out their level of integrity/sincerity to see if what's being offered has any genuine value.
Yeah, there are not only double meanings to the word friend, there are probably 20 levels of the word, ranging from the meaninglessly casual all the way up to "receiving the heart of a friend", which is the Chinese character for love. | |
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