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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/7/2009 4:47:45 PM | That book doesn't account for shy, nervous guys...if you follow that advice you'll very likely wind up with a jerk....who's read the book and knows how to push all the right buttons.
The point worth taking home is that sometimes things are not meant to be, let it go. If you hang on you're wasting precious time and ruining your own happiness. So it did have some good points I'll admit. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/7/2009 9:10:25 PM | I don't think that there has been any whining here whatsoever. It's a simple discussion of a very complicated term. And dude, I'm not wealthy enough to buy women's affection!
The conclusion, in my mind, is that the term "friend" is HUGE and easily misunderstood...for some, it's virtually meaningless and means just a casual acquaintance for whom they want absolutely no obligation... to drinking buddies...to activity partners...to FW/WO benefits...all the way up to love on occasion.
Now that I've thought it through and followed the responses here it's obvious that the term has a different connotation for each person.
I've already backed down from my first post which people found harsh, and I didn't mean to generalize about ALL of the women on the planet earth.
In the end, if people would be willing to communicate honestly with each other much of the confusion could be avoided. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/7/2009 11:17:10 PM | Your waiting for her to tell you she only wants to be friends and
when she does you have fulfilled your unconscious expectations
Maybe your mind is trying to tell you something | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/8/2009 3:43:49 AM | Ringo Starr, you're spot on.
I've been through the friends thing once in my life, and once was truly enough.
Since then, my policy was to never spend a cent on a woman. If there is to be a relationship, the attraction should be mutual, and have nothing to do with money.
And wouldn't you believe it? I've never had a relationship. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/8/2009 5:01:15 PM | ilove,
Man, that is so sad! Keep trying, hang in there. It can be tough. You know what? Don't sweat it. Just relax and have fun. What's meant to be will be. When we're desperate they run away. Women hate desperation. I should know!
We're only here for a cup of coffee. Life is short! Enjoy yourself, and let it come to you. Stop chasing after it. I'm giving advice to myself at the same time here. You activated the Dr. Phil in me.
When I think of the times that I attracted great women...they were times when I was relaxed and confident and not even looking that hard. I'm talking about walking into a restaurant when I wasn't even hungry...and there she was. Out with an old buddy at a club...and she appeared. I mean, you never know. You just have to be open and expect the best and enjoy your life. Your zeal for life is the best advertising you can have. Stars give light... | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/8/2009 9:32:52 PM | justanotherlurker,
Delayed reaction here...you consider a dry hump with a married woman some form of success?
I get the gist of your post though. I really do. I'm still friends with my ex. We do things together from time to time. I don't use her as a "wingman" or anything like that.
There are a couple of women in my life that I would consider friends. It's not like I'm some big woman hater or something.
The point of my post SPECIFICALLY had to do with guys who are SPRUNG on women who just wanna be friends. That is TORTURE, and I don't care what anybody says. The reverse can be torture too, when the poor woman is strung along and always feels that she's not good enough. We should have the self respect to say no to such situations no matter how "perfect" the other person seems to be.
I'm not talking about general friendship between the sexes. I have no problem with that. Why would I? I'm talking about madly unequal situations here.
It's obvious that many if not most of the replies were from people who didn't read the thread. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/9/2009 10:11:57 AM |
Actually, she was demanding a HOUSE before she would get married.
Let me get this straight. You want a much younger beautiful woman to have children with but you can't afford a house?
All these guys who think they deserve the best but have nothing to offer a girl.
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/9/2009 11:51:04 AM | I posted this in another forum, but I'm going to re-post, because 1) I think it is hilarious and 2) It might actually help some of the "nice guys" on this site.
From The Onion....
But If We Started Dating It Would Ruin Our Friendship Where I Ask You To Do Things And You Do Them
BY KIMBERLY PRUITT
I really like you. I do. You're so nice, and sweet, and you listen to all my problems and respond with the appropriate compliments. But, well, I don't really see a relationship in our future. It would be terrible if we let sex destroy this great friendship we have where I get everything I want and you get nothing you want. Don't you think?
I knew you would understand. You always do.
We're so perfect as friends, you know? I can tell you anything, and you know you can always come to me anytime you need to hear me **** about work or how ugly I feel. You wouldn't want to ruin a friendship like that just so you could be my boyfriend, and have me look at you with desire and longing in my eyes, if only once—would you? Of course not. Well, if we started dating, it would only complicate this wonderful setup I've got going here.
It's just…you're like my best friend, and I would hate for something you desperately want to change that. I mean, sure, we could go on some dates, maybe mess around a little and finally validate the six years you've spent languishing in this platonic nightmare, but then what? How could we ever go back to the way we were, where I take advantage of your clear attraction to me so I can have someone at my beck and call? That part of our friendship means so much to me.
No. We are just destined to be really, really good friends who only hang out when I don't have a boyfriend, but still need male attention to boost my fragile and all-consuming ego.
Anything can happen once you bring romance in. Think about how awful my last relationship was at the end, remember? The guy I'd call you crying about at 3 a.m. because he wouldn't answer my texts? The guy I met at the birthday party you threw me? I had insanely passionate sex with him for four months and now we don't even talk anymore. God, I would die if something like that happened to us.
Plus, ick, can you even imagine getting naked in front of each other? I've known you so long, you're more like a brother that I've drunkenly made out with twice and never mentioned again. It'd be way too weird. And if we did, then whenever you'd come shopping with me, or go to one of my performances or charity events, or take me for ice cream when I've had a bad day at work, you'd be looking at me like, "I've seen her breasts." God, I can't think of anything more awkward that that.
Oh, before I forget, my mom says hi.
Anyway, you would totally hate me as your girlfriend. I'd be all needy and dramatic and slowly growing to love you. If I was your girlfriend, I would never be able to tell you all about the other ***hole guys I date and pretend I don't see how much it crushes you. Let's never lose that. That's what makes us us.
Don't worry. You're so funny and smart and amazing, any girl but me would be lucky to date you. You'll find someone, I know it. And when you do, I'll be right by your side to suddenly become all flirty and affectionate with you in front of her, until she grows jealous and won't believe it when you say we're just friends. But when she dumps you, that's just what we'll be.
Best friends. Friends forever. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/9/2009 1:21:08 PM | Don't flatter yourself, men do it too. One did it to me and I'm sure I'm not the first and won't be the last.
I have friends on here because that is what I mean, FRIENDS!!!!!
Do I mean let me take advantage of you and use you in any way, shape or form? NOT!
Friends mean talking, doing things together and enjoying life, having fun, someone to lean on and share your hopes and dreams with, someone to care for and about and them caring also.
To eventually get in their pants? No, I have lots of friends, male and female, do I want to sleep with them or them me? Nope. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/9/2009 2:14:43 PM | "Friends" in a profile, or "Friends First", can mean many things, but there is a common SLANG to it, where it basically means "I dont know what I want, but I'll find out if I'm attracted to you and/or want to date you. I don't want dating-drama before I even know, and this way you can't complain if I'm not into you."
OP, some women I'm sure extend it into stringing a guy a long. Giving signals that they're in a boy/girl situation, where dinners are paid for, attention is given & feeling wanted and all that... but also using the 'friend' card to look at you like you're nuts for expecting anything -physically- romantic and like you're genuinely dating.
But I wouldn't say all women. Because "Friends" is basically the same "Hang Out" by people's uses on this site if they just select that field. "Friends" does not mean platonic by default on here, as one would have to boldly & clearly specify in their profile they mean -strictly- platonic (which is really screwball, btw). It is a dating site, not face book or my space, so no girl (or rarely a guy) can complain that someone else was unnecessarily frustrated because they expected something a little more than platonic. Why? Because some people put "ONLY FRIENDS! NOTHING MORE!" because they're not wanting to date on any level, but want attention, and if highly attracted (or better option than their so-so mate), will pounce on said person.
Friends mean talking, doing things together and enjoying life, having fun, someone to lean on and share your hopes and dreams with, someone to care for and about and them caring also.
So does genuine dating. So does a relationship. You're ignoring that. You're not going to be able to lean on anyone & share your hopes and dreams with and massively care about them when you first meet someone -- whether you're spouse-hunting, or meeting up with someone of the same sex. When you genuinely go down the dating path, a more-than-friendship develops anyway -- not something void of friendship.
"Friends First" as a replacement for dating or romance is screwball, but it can now be used as SLANG to mean a variety of things, which causes confusion. Why use 'friends' when you're looking to be MORE than just friends? lol Because that's what dating is... MORE than just friends. Hence, the word 'friends' alone in verbage means not more than friends.
If someone wants a partner to also be "a best friend, too", you don't say you're looking for "Friends First". | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/9/2009 5:11:07 PM | Next time read the thread. I mentioned, clearly, that I could buy a house but there's no reason to do so at this point.
Without getting too personal, I have a good job and money in the bank.
What do you have to offer? Anger? Attitude?
You think it's kosher for a woman to deman that the guy get her a house before she will marry him? Where I grew up that's called a user. Generally speaking, people are supposed to marry for love.
What is it with some of the people on here? Do you think the internet makes it okay to be shi**y? Maybe you haven't heard about karma.
Oh, and hottubguy, that piece from the Onion rocks. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/10/2009 10:55:25 AM | whenwillthiswork26,
Let me get this straight. You want a much younger beautiful woman to have children with but you can't afford a house? All these guys who think they deserve the best but have nothing to offer a girl.
So you're saying that if you desire a beautiful woman who's younger than you, you have to be a sugar daddy? lol If you're single w/o kids, there can be good reasons not to buy a house when you could afford one (traveling, being picky about buying, great place w/ cheap rent = more savings than most homes).
If he asked to have kids before they were married, yes, there'd be nothing wrong for a gal to say she'd like a house before they were married. But all that's not the point.
An older guy hitting up younger pretty girls probably needs to watch out for sugar-daddy expectations. It's not a crime for a 40 year old guy to want a 25 year old woman. He gets no sympathy if it doesn't work out, or she ends up looking for a sugar-daddy, sure, because many will be like that in that situation and he should expect that. But that doesn't mean he's doing something "wrong". | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/10/2009 2:42:17 PM | A young woman of child bearing age is going to want a man with a house usually if she is hot and can pick and choose among lots of men. Why argue with me about it? It is something women want. That's the way it is.
Call them golddiggers looking for sugar daddies or any other names you want but that is the way it it.
The fact that a man of 48 who is wanting a much younger woman who will bear his children is shocked and disgusted with such a woman wanting to have a house shows a certain lack of not looking at the facts of what young women want.
Good things always come with a price. Again, sorry if you dont' want to hear this.
I have had male friends and we always go dutch. They were always open to the possibility of FWB but were ok with me not going there with them. Usually when they fell in love with thier girlfriends said women would insist they end the friendship with me. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/10/2009 5:11:26 PM | Confident,
You nailed it. I have a beautiful rent controlled apartment in a very nice area close to Beverly Hills.
I am single now, and have no urgent reason to buy a house, AND houses are still crashing so why would I want to catch a falling knife? I have the money for when housing hits bottom if indeed I decide to stay here, or I might get out of Los Angeles altogether.
I didn't ask to have kids before getting married. I do want kids, but one step at a time. She refused to marry me because I do not own a house. My family calls her a gold digger. Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger, but she ain't hangin' wit no broke....you get the point.
If I find the right person, I can easily then buy a foreclosure.
Also, When26, you might not be aware of the fact that most people who reside in Los Angeles are renters, since this is the single least affordable housing market in the entire country. What we pay for rent here is a mortgage payment anywhere else in the country.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, but I disagree with your theories. You're kind of saying that any and all younger women who date older guys are gold diggers, period. I don't think that that's the case. There might be different expectations, that the guy is more solid, less likely to stray, etc., and that I understand.
I was irritated that you said that I have nothing to offer and you could not be more wrong. I thought that it was an odd thing to say since you know so little about me and my resources. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/11/2009 5:49:01 AM | It seems to me that you need to change your approach to relationships with women. Frequently, people meet someone of the opposite sex and that person does not feel a romantic attraction and an honest person tells the other that this is the case. With you, though, it sounds like you don't hear what is being told to you and you continue to involve yourself and harbour unrealistic hopes that the other person's feelings are going to change.
This may be an issue to resole in therapy, i.e. your pattern of being attracted and involved with people who don't want you. This may stem from unresolved childhood issues, perhaps.
Good luck,
Judith | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/11/2009 6:23:53 AM | My best male friend and I get along without (at least I do not think sexually of him) chalking everything up to sex. He has saved my life and I have saved his life, so all in all we are pretty even. Been best friends for over six years, and even when we don't talk, we still manage to know what is up. Sex between us never comes up, and I am grateful for that because I know him too well! LOL | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/11/2009 7:12:54 AM | None of this bs would happen if people were honest when first forming friendships. Honest about thier needs and what they really want from one another.
If you had said upon first getting to know her that you'd like to be friends, and also let her know that you fantasize about having sex with her, she would likely revoke the friendship offer . Then you wont waste your time or money trying to become a better friend....
Your sister and the wedding incident is the perfect example. Yeah, you told her what you thought, and you were correct in the end...does not change the fact that she believed her 'friend' when he said he wanted to be her 'friend'. Had this man told her he wanted to have sex with her at some point, she likely (based on you stating she doesnt play games) would have handled herself differently.
The problem is people will accept friendship as the booby prize, while passive-aggressively yearning for something else entirely. If you are not getting your needs met in any type of relationship, you should be asking yourself why you are in it to begin with. This goes for employer/employee relationships, buddies and yes, loving, sexual relationships as well. In order to get what we want, we have to be clear when stating what we want, or it will not happen. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/11/2009 8:36:29 AM | Brown,
Well...no.
In the two cases(in what, 30 years of dating?) where I got the friend lecture, both times I was absolutely clear to the ladies involved regarding what I was looking for. That's the point of my post. Both times I was told a variation of let's play it one day at a time and see what happens. In other words, I'm not sure whether they were both dishonest, or simply didn't know what they felt, where I'm very straightforward.
As I've gained more experience and perspective now, I think more and more that attraction is immediate. Fondness might grow over time, but physical attraction is either there or it isn't.
And some people are just born players. They get someone...they look for someone better. That's the pattern. Agreements mean nothing. That's the world we live in.
I'm totally honest, and that is my downfall. Once they have me they know it. I'm on or off, with no in between. I'm in touch with what I feel and am not ashamed of it. It's not a plus to wear your heart on your sleeve, especially when most ladies are so used to game.
It's astonishing to me that so many people just don't seem to know what they want. But maybe that's part of the game as well. The string along.
You're right about the fact that people settle for less, all the time! I was on this forum last night and it's one big list of people settling for less than they want and deserve. My God, the abuse is horrific. A third party can take one look at the story and locate the difficulty right away. So many of us are so desperate and so lacking in self respect that we involve ourselves in situations that are unhealthy.
The truth is that the people who wave the carrot in your face are usually not worth your time. | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/11/2009 9:10:59 AM | whenwillthiswork26,
Call them golddiggers looking for sugar daddies or any other names you want but that is the way it it.
If a woman, regardless of age or hotness is demanding to "get" a house from a guy she's not married to, I'll call her looking for a sugar-daddy, and that's what it would be... and not all women are like that, even at a young age.
The fact that a man of 48 who is wanting a much younger woman who will bear his children is shocked and disgusted with such a woman wanting to have a house shows a certain lack of not looking at the facts of what young women want.
Well, ANY guy looking to settle down is going to want a woman who can bear children (assuming open to kids of course). It's not a "trade off" of older guy-young-girl for gold-digger. Most guys are attracted to younger women. Many women are attracted to younger men. It's just about expectations as to whether you'll mesh well with a lower chance that it will with generation gaps.. not whether it's insulting or not that one likes someone younger. Gold-digging and that lack of self-worth mentality can be pretty insulting, and says a lot about the person living like that.
With that said, he brings up a great point, too. If you live in LA or Chicago, you can be very financially sound and not "own" a home. I think a woman would want a guy who could AFFORD to buy a home, and something like that being a possibility for the future, definitely. But to have to "prove" yourself to her before marrying, that's an obvious red flag she wants bling bling bought for her... and again, no, not all women are like that.
Good things always come with a price.
We're talking about young, beautiful hookers? ;) | |
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| I think I have the friends thing figured out.
Posted: 7/11/2009 9:17:37 AM | I'm with Brown Eyed Woman. If you want more than friendship, state it clearly from the outset. Why would you keep that information from a woman anyway, because you fear she'll stop talking to you? Maybe that's your clue that it's not going to go your way to begin with.
Tell her that while you'll agree to be friends now, at some point you want it to progress to more if you are going to stick around, specifically in the direction of some consistent sex. That should pretty much keep you from ending up in a bad situation from now on. | |
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