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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/4/2009 8:37:24 AM | Let me guess. Another single mom with a son. I bet if there was a "father" or male role model present in the home , your son wouldn't have sleep overs.
Again, you got it WRONG... you would lose on your "bet"...
First off, I'm a guy.... a rather large one....
Second, as a male role model, I have taught him how to defend himself, and fight if necessary, how to look after himself and how to use a few basic weapons.... He's grown up in a household where he was taught how to be a man and how to be confident and strong. He is more mature than most men twice his age. He's also balanced the 'manly' arts with a few other side lines and high marks in school.
Third, I AM nocturnal.... I did stay up and I supervised. I'm not the kind of guy that shirks responsibility.
Fourth, he might be able to 'knock up some little girl' but there's a difference, he was raised to repsect and appreciate women. Not to use them or make fun of them. So, he has no desire to just go out and sow his wild oats and leave some woman on her own after a kid is born. He is actually smarter than most men his age. He's a balanced, capable man with no fear of other men and a healthy desire for and a strong respect for women. He has a large number of friends both male and female who like him as a person and for his outlook.
Finally, a tip. When boys and girls get to meet, mingle and get used to each other they don't end up with ridiculous phobias about the other sex... or an obsession about what was kept from them that could lead to issues down the road..... my son treats his male and female friends equally and with sense and intelligence... And he's not afraid to be around people... | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/4/2009 8:56:51 AM | | I would like to know why some of you do not think 11 year olds would do anything untoward if left alone in a bedroom all night. | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/4/2009 9:03:22 AM |
I would like to know why some of you do not think 11 year olds would do anything untoward if left alone in a bedroom all night.
well i'm sure there are 11 year olds that do...........just as there are 11 year olds that steal, lie, carry guns, do drugs, drink, steal cars, bully, fail at school and numerous other things.
but, just because some do, doesn't mean all do.
if your 11 year old is at risk of or actually doing any of those things, then you obviously as a parent haven't done a proper job of raising them. | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/6/2009 11:30:22 PM | Wow I had no idea this would erupt into all this...
First off, I'd like to clear up with the people who think I'm trying to find Fault... I can't help but laugh at this... The last thing I need to do in my son's mother is "Look" for fault, it stands way out for all to see, trust me on this...
The reason I made this thread was because I knew damn well that there would be very limited supervision... There always is... My son doesn't go to bed when he is with his mother until 4am or 5am in the morning, sometimes after the sun has come up... Why, you ask??? Because she has already gone to sleep before he has...
Trust me, there is plenty of fault hanging off of her, I don't need to look for it...
I just don't think that after having "Human Development" in school just 4 months ago, that he should be having Multi-Gender Sleep Overs... Especially if it will be unsupervised... It's not like they were taking a trip to an amusement park where they were getting a hotel for a night or 2, this is the same place my son goes every time he is with his mother, nothing special, except for the fact that a girl went along this time...
Someone else asked, do I think my son is ready??? Who thinks their child is ready at 11 years old, show of hands???
Children get curious, especially after they been show just the basics in school just a couple of months ago...
Anyway, I just didn't want everyone to think I bugged out of the Topic... It's just that when my son is gone, I finally get time to myself... Though I worry my @ss off over what he might be doing down there, I'm still able to go out, so I've been away from the computer this weekend, especially with it having been 4th of July...
As for my Son, he is home safe where he belongs now, alone with no girls sleeping over I might add... | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/7/2009 12:00:46 AM | 12 year old girls are getting pregnant in countries all around the world, America, Australia, the UK, etc.
It's beyond sick, and lack of supervision is part of the problem. Why put them in the situation to begin with? | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/7/2009 6:39:29 AM |  over reacting on "drag me to hell" ? depends on your sons emotional state and maturity. only you and his mother know that. you need to "TALK" to him (not lead him) and see what he thought about the movie. children of his age like all types of movies and are pretty tough emotionally. IMHO yes you are over reacting.
a/f/a a sleep over; do we have all the info? is it just the two children and the one mother? is the other mother going to be there?  is there going to be a father there? how does your son feel about this girl? i am not sure why you distrust your ex, good reason or bad but you should as a parent at least have your concerns on the sleep over heard and dicussed. NOT in front of your son and do it like a man- no arguing, no voice raising- discuss. the big D is hard enough on children and the dont need to know the stress. remeber calm discussion. good luck from one single dad to another | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/7/2009 6:48:24 AM |  "if your 11 year old is at risk of or actually doing any of those things, then you obviously as a parent haven't done a proper job of raising them"
my parents did on H&ll of a job raising 7 kids. we were taught all the morals , rights and wrongs. i was still playing doctor in pre-school. there are some things that kids just know are different and want to explore. so in conclusion- you can do all the right things as a parent- the children still have a mind of theyre own.  | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/7/2009 9:41:52 AM | Oh my goodness....what this thread has erupted into......
I wonder how many of you parents remember what you were like at 11 or 12 years old, the things you thought about and the things you did.......
Kids are definately more aware today of many things, courtesy of changes in the educational system, the media, the internet......are they more mature as a result of this information?
I have raised one son to 15 and he is still a virgin and I know this because I'm his mother and I know my son. I've seen first hand how he acts around girls and how they react to him. They are very "into him" and while he is aware of girls, he has never exhibited any of the "hormone crazed behaviour" that I remember from my teen years emanating from BOTH sexes. He is shy and has many interests besides girls and he is respectful towards people of both genders. That said, I still would not have felt too comfortable with him having a sleep-over with a girl...natural curiousity can lead to problems that children simply are not prepared to deal with...
My sister and her husband have raised two sons and a daughter and they are all adults now. All three were involved in activities that kept them busy and focused on things other than sex. All three have had friendships with members of both sexes and there were sleepovers with the friends (of both sexes). They turned out ok, all three of them. Nobody is a parent yet. One has graduated from university and the other two are poised to be university graduates in 1 and 3 years. Her children have healthy attitudes about members of both sexes.
SagMan, I dare say you speak of young women as whores so I have to wonder just how your daughters have been affected by what is for all intents and purposes a NATURAL curiousity. I sure hope you haven't raised them to feel "dirty" and "whore-like" if they are interested in sex. In your fears that your daughters will become whores, you may have also taught them that sex is dirty and only dirty girls have sex. Being a woman, I can only speak to the female perspective. I will leave it to the men to comment on your "boys will be boys" attitude...... | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/7/2009 10:28:19 AM | SagMan4u ... You may be a good father in your own right, but you are really not very open-minded at all, and pretty judgemental for anyone who doesn't think like you do.
Because you are so obsessed with sexual deviancy, it could make a person wonder why...
What some of us are trying to explain to you is that some kids just aren't sexual ... and can lay beside the opposite sex without engaging in sexual acts .... yes, even boys that are straight. Geez, even as an adult I have slept with "male friends" and not had sex!
Just to clarify, my daughter is not a lesbian ... but she does have homosexual friends. I am personally not understanding of the whole homosexuality thing, but I will not judge my girl's friends because of it. The reason I brought up homosexuality is because - like it or not - it is getting pretty common, ... so maybe parents who are obsessed with sexual deviancy should never allow sleepovers of any type .. if sexual relations is their "fear".
But, whatever works for each parent and their children. I will repeat one more time that although I allowed my daughter to "crash"/ "fall asleep with" her friends, she is a virgin at 18 years old. This proves to me that all kids aren't full of curiosity, raging hormones, and no morals.
Maybe it's because you are a man and don't understand the "no sex" thing ... and can't understand that close friends of both sexes can be happy with, or think nothing of, sleeping with their buddies.
If you want to go deeper into into it all .. alot of kids need a certain type of closeness with their friends. Many come from broken homes and parents that are always working or involved with anything but their kids. Some of these kids are seeking companionship - closeness only, NOT SEX.
What's really quite funny, is that you seem to think I am an awful parent for trusting my daughter ... yet anyone who knows me thinks I am too overprotective of a mother....lol.
And, OMG, my daughter at this very moment is likely sleeping with her closest friend (whom she refers to as her brother), maybe her friend/roommate, and a little puppy! The horror of it all!!! | |
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Joined: 6/11/2009
Msg: 35 | |
| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/7/2009 10:53:10 AM | I believe the OP said the kids would have seperate bedrooms as far he knew. That IMO would be the best solution.
They may even have fell asleep watching a dvd. In the most vivid of imaginations i doubt two 11 year-olds are going to wake up and decide to get it on. Especialy since they have had sex ed, and know that sex leads to babies. If they are not boyfriend and girlfriend it would be unlikely they would suddenly experiment on each other when they woke up.
Particularly if the parents have done a good job at bringing them up.
From my own experience, and I am aware that children are growing up at an earlier age, I had many sleepovers with my neighbour (boy) because we were great friends. There is no way anything would have happened even though we shared a room. These days there are far more boy/girl friendships than when I was younger, and they can be friends without having a relationship.
Sagman4u, I haven't read any of your other posts, but you really come across as being small-minded and sanctimonious.
Some of your words were insulting, particularly with regards to the gay community spreading faster then cancer. Not everyone has to agree, as we can see it is a grey area, but I doubt letting children have mixed sex sleepovers will turn their kids into "sexual predators" and "whores". Being too strict with them could lead to social inadequacies, or having them head for the door at the first opportunity. | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/7/2009 12:22:16 PM | Unless you fear your child will be asked to perform sexually at this sleep over (or some other heinous crime), I think you should mind your own business.
I dont get why seperated parents spend ANY time trying to control what goes on under thier exes roof. It is none of your business. You cannot, and will not ever control what you ex does with your kids now that you live aprt. Accept it and move on!
Your child is 11, and if he was not comfortable going and Mom was pushing, then Yeah, say something...otherwise, mind you own business! Your child is perfectly capable of telling you all about it afterwards as well...so it's not like you wont know how things went down.
LET IT GO.
Your ex is NOT obligated to run anything by you when she has the child on her own time...again, unless you have proof she is causing the child stress...which you do not. Nit picking about what you should be told, when you should be told and on what color paper the memo should arrive on is wasting your valuable time. It wont change...all you will do is create an environment where the ex tells you what you want to hear and does what she wants anyways, so what will you accomplish?
How about you worry about how you spend your time with your son, and only worry about the time he spends with his Mom, if your son brings something to your attention? Keep the lines of communication open with your child and you will know more than you ever wanted to anyways.
I hate so many things my ex does with my son-however, they are not illegal things...I just dont agree with them. BUT his Dad is entitled to try things HIS way...he is the Father. Once you can accept the fact you made a child with someone that does not and never will agree with you on child rearing, you can let go of all this BS, and be happy. Believe me, it is worth it!
I understand why some of you do this-I did it too for a bit after divorce. You care about your child. Now here is the catch-so does your ex...they just dont agree with you on how to show it. There IS NO RIGHT WAY to raise children. Even couples that stay together hide things from one another to 'help' thier child (daughter gets permission from Mom to stay out later than normal, and Mom helps cover it up from Dad, for example)
Just agree to disagree and move on with being the best darned Dad you can be, when you have your son with you. That is all you can do anyways, so why not focus on that and be great at it? Why focus your valuable energy trying to control someone you will never control? | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/7/2009 8:57:42 PM | OP.
Have you familiarized yourself with parenting guidelines?
Each state may vary but, in general, your ex has as much right as you to dictate what's appropriate and what isn't.
All I can see here is a differing of parental styles.
These differences could be her natural inclinations OR, she could be engaging in this to either get your goat OR to be gthe 'cool parent'.
I see nothing wrong with you ex's choices.
I might not allow them myself.
So far, this seems more like a little war between you and her.
Unless you're a religious nutter, I don't see what the big deal is.
Is your son going through puberty? Can't deal with a dumb movie (I've seen it with my son, it was lame and NOT scary...sheesh).
Just be a dad and set rules for Your house in the manner you think is appropriate.
If you have issues with co-ed stuff, have THE TALK with the boy...over and over and over until he recites it in his sleep.
If you object to the horror movies, state to him why and rationally. Then discuss with him what he liked and disliked about the movie. I've spent hours talking zombies (including make-up effects) when my son was 8 and we watched ALL of them together. | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/7/2009 10:36:34 PM |
I dont get why seperated parents spend ANY time trying to control what goes on under thier exes roof. It is none of your business. You cannot, and will not ever control what you ex does with your kids now that you live aprt. Accept it and move on!
Some married parents discuss things like this, and sometimes one parent objects to an activity that the other parent thinks is just fine. Often when the parent who objects explains the reason for the objection, the other parent may see something that they hadn't thought of, and now they better understand and agree with the objection. I can see why after a divorce it would be hard for two people to not do this anymore, and it would be very frustrating not to be able to explain your objections to the other parent any longer. | |
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Posted: 7/8/2009 12:22:34 AM |
it would be very frustrating not to be able to explain your objections to the other parent any longer
Not only can it be frustrating, it is not in the best interests of children to be receiving conflicting messages from their parents.....
If two people are mature and level-headed and respectful of the role of the other parent, there is no reason why they can't continue to discuss these issues as they arise and come to a consensus.
In some situations, I think these "differences" in parenting are done intentionally so one parent can hurt the other parent through the child. It is pawnlike behaviour of juveniles. The PC thing to say is that you have no control (which you don't) but sorry, as a parent, you still have a right in the "significant" decisions with respect to parenting to have your opinion heard and considered. When consensus cannot be reached, one could seek an expert opinion to break the tie......just sayin' there are other options besides turning your parenting on/off in sync with the custody schedule. | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/8/2009 10:32:20 AM | Ok Sagman, I am not sure I would label any child a whore but if you are asking me if I am ok with children between 11 and 13 having sex...HELL NO I am not. I personally don't think teens should be having sex period.....and certainly not before they realize that...
they need to respect themselves and their bodies and to differentiate between love and lust
I don't know too many teens that have both....actually I don't see many adults that have both.
I'm glad that you didn't teach them that sex was dirty because it is not dirty, it is a beautiful physical way to express love and desire for your partner. Teaching sexual morals is essential and something I wonder if many parents do...I do and obviously you do, it just wasn't clear in your earlier posts...you were tossing offensive words around....thanks for clarifying.
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/8/2009 11:39:33 AM |
Ok Sagman, I am not sure I would label any child a whore but if you are asking me if I am ok with children between 11 and 13 having sex...HELL NO I am not. I personally don't think teens should be having sex period
I would call the kids AND their parents a lot worse than that. | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/8/2009 11:58:08 AM | I would call the kids AND their parents a lot worse than that.
A difference that exists between us.... a child of 11 or 12 who has not been parented effectively is a victim in my eyes of poor parenting so, no I would not call her a whore. I would have perhaps a few suggestions for the parents of said child but honestly, I don't see where calling some child derogatory names does much more than allow the one calling the name to feel morally superior to that child..... | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/8/2009 12:04:40 PM |
A difference that exists between us.... a child of 11 or 12 who has not been parented effectively is a victim in my eyes of poor parenting so, no I would not call her a whore. I would have perhaps a few suggestions for the parents of said child but honestly, I don't see where calling some child derogatory names does much more than allow the one calling the name to feel morally superior to that child.....
I do think there are some 11 to 13 year old children who are aware enough of their actions to be held accountable to a certain extent. ALL of the parents are liable, though. | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/8/2009 12:15:20 PM |
At what age would you consider to be appropriate and at what age does it become inappropriate for Multi-Gender Sleep Overs???
Pre-school age probably. However, I agree with another poster that if two young people want to experiment sexually it's gonna happen... unless we lock them all in boxes under our beds 24/7. J/K about that last part.
Shouldn't I be included in these decisions???
Not unless you have a joint custody plan that says so. Otherwise, what goes on in your house in your business and vice-versa. While you can't control her household, you CAN raise the issue in a court hearing to question her parenting.
What do you think about taking an 11 year old to see the movie "Drag Me To Hell"???
No... but then again I can't stand that kind of crap anyway so I wouldn't want to sit thru it even if a kid begged me to take him/her to see it. My kids probably saw some movies which would be "too sexually explicit" in their father's opinion... but his church was on that whole boycott-Disney and Harry-Potter-is-of-the-devil kick anyway. | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/8/2009 2:09:16 PM | Ok well first off in this house NO WAY on Gods green earth would a boy be staying over if my daughter was 11 not a chance. I know of a girl who lost her virginity to a boy when they were both 11 so its not like everyone is still playing Barbie and cars at this age it does happen. If it did happen my daughter would be sleeping in my bed with me for the night BUT it categorically wouldnt happen anyway. Maybe im a bit funny or something those of you who are saying its fine are you nuts or something.
Also the movie - OMG - it may be rated PG-13 in USA but in UK it is rated 15 I saw the trailers for that and sh1t myself was too afraid to see the film myself it has actually been billed here as the scariest film of the year!!!! I cannot believe that she took him or that any of you took your kids! I would not allow my kids to watch anything age appropriate if I had not screened it first and deemed it ok.
I think its a good thing that you are getting custody - I am shocked on both counts here cannot believe what I am reading - maybe its because I'm British!!! 8-0 | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/8/2009 8:54:18 PM | Dear Friends,
I am not sure why screwing at eleven to thirteen is unacceptable. There may be individuals whose families object on religious grounds, but the first amendment covers that, and the old saw about maturity has no basis in any evidence based medicine, so I am not sure what objection exists without knowing the actual details of the individuals involved.
Blanket statements covering behaviour seem to me to be poorly thought out; without some form of empiricism, one can scarce presume a postulate to be anything other than putative. Upon what basis in reason is screwing at thirteen moral or not? Seems to me to be a silly, uncompassionate remnant of christianity, which a parent has a right to teach or not. I oppose religion on general principle, since intolerance of any kind is unkind, but to argue that another person should so do is grandiose. I expect the same standards to apply to all, and implying that any moral code is to be asserted for anyone other than one's self or family is equally grandiose.
If there is no law prohibiting the behaviour, why the unkindness? Love is love, and between sex, which involves awareness of another and television which is mindless idiocy, I would prefer to see my kids enjoying the former.
Peace,
CdC | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/8/2009 9:04:56 PM | Should this sleep over be happening or am I just getting upset for no reason???
I guess that's a decision only you and she can make, but I have 4 kids 13, 11, 9, and 4. This would not happen on my watch. But that's just my opinion. | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/8/2009 9:20:22 PM | | Dude let me tell you something. I am a father. If my son wants to have one of his friends come and stay so they can play games and have fun they he can. That does NOT make him a FAG. Get a grip and let kids be kids. I know you are going to jump on your high horse and make more comments about my post but I am not even going to waste any more of my time on your self rightious views. | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/8/2009 9:24:53 PM |
I am not sure why screwing at eleven to thirteen is unacceptable.
Are you out of your mind?
If there is no law prohibiting the behaviour, why the unkindness?
Thank God there is a law prohibiting this where I live.
Love is love, and between sex, which involves awareness of another and television which is mindless idiocy, I would prefer to see my kids enjoying the former.
I hope you don't have custody of any children. Do you think a pregnant 11 year old is a good thing? | |
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| Sleep Over...
Posted: 7/9/2009 7:00:42 AM | Dear Friends,
Ad hominem attacks do little to clarify the issue of how to allow personal growth with the greatest degree of compassion, undrstanding and safety.
My belief that the Nazarene carpenter was crucified, as barbaric and ugly a death imaginable, because we did not have halperidol or thioradizine available in 30 A D does not mean I attack the sincerity or moral conditon of Christians, merely teach those for whom I am responsible that I personally beleive that Moses and Jesus were severly ill, and, although I myself tend to live by the ethical precepts of Jesus, abhor religion in any form. This is a far cry from attacking those whose beliefs differ.
Since the we already live in a labile environment, creatinf yet a higher level of emotional excitation seems to me to be an unlikely course of re-mediation, and, in fact, were such a teenager to become either pregnant or diseased, possibly counter-therapeutic. It is my personal belief that in addressing the issue of teen experimentation with sex that we attempt, insofar as possible, to create as open, kind, and supprotive environment as possible, and that moralism is, in general, unlikely to achieve this setting.
If those who are supposed to be the kind hearts and cool heads rush off into "sex is filthy - your going to be an aids-infected pregnant crack whore" we are unlikely to create an environment where, given the model of society which in reality exists, can be helpful to teens.
That some here would prefer a Christian country, where the rule of god is the rule is the rule of law is another issue. I detest theism, christians detest atheists. No one I know has any problems with this, as I, my Jewish, Muslim, and Christian friends and colleagues all get along well, largely because our society tends towards neutrality. Attacking that neutrality on the basis of hyterical portraits of pregnant ten year olds and child molesting internet perverts is no different that the commie bashing of the fifties, or the witch hunts of the seventeenth century.
Therefore, an intelligent discussion must begin by leaving aside any ad hominem attacks - in the end, the church was wrong and the astronomers right. But Bruno, Copernicus and friends were equally dead. I suggest a kinder, gentler approach to rearing our young may be more fruitful, in the long run.
Love,
CdC | |
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