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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 10:40:36 AM | | I'll go along with it being different for different people, for different reasons. Personally, I don't have the desire to live with someone 24/7 and that doesn't mean that there isn't a committed relationship otherwise - I wouldn't call it "dating" a guy for 4 1/2 years and seeing no one else. It's not all about getting together just for sex either. I find living separately just as satisfying, if not more so, than living together with someone 24/7. I suppose it depends on what makes you lonely or what makes you happy. I know any number of people who are in live-in relationships or married who say they are lonely. Living with someone doesn't guarantee your happiness or fulfillment and it doesn't mean that you are shirking relationship responsiblities by living separately. It's being reported more and more that even married couples are living in separate residences. While this isn't for everyone it does speak to the fact that the 24/7 living arrangment isn't the be all and end all and that there is something the matter with you if that's not what you choose. I see a number of posters seem to figure it is "wrong" or you don't love your partner as much unless you live with them. If that were true, there wouldn't be so many divorces, now would it? There's much to be said for being a committed couple without the necessity of it being 24/7. If it suits you, great. If it doesn't suit you personally, that's great too. One size does not fit all. What IS wrong is to be condescending to those who find a way that works for them but wouldn't for you. | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 11:18:43 AM | | This attitude in my opinion seems to come with the older age group. Especially if you have either been married a long time and just broke up or have been alone for a long time. Either way you grow to really like your quiet time. I don't want a man living with me, I'm really not looking to get married. I also like the idea that I can show up at his house get intertained and go home when I'm not. | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 2:54:46 PM |
you grow to really like your quiet time. I don't want a man living with me, I'm really not looking to get married. I also like the idea that I can show up at his house get intertained and go home when I'm not.
Now THAT does sound like FWB, and I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that. I would far prefer a good FWB, like the one I had 8 years ago until 6 years ago, than the nightmare of living with the "wrong" one, like I had 2 years ago and then last year until this Feb..
My "ideal", though, would be an intense relationship, where we were both really "into" each other, but not living together. Maybe seeing each other for the whole weekend every week, and concentrating on work during the week, while staying in touch with nightly phone calls. Something like that. Monogamous, committed, serious....but not rushing into cohabitation or having that as the goal for the first year or so. | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 3:28:40 PM | Now THAT does sound like FWB
Is the term "Boyfriend/girlfriend " still relevant these days?
I think FWB smacks of little or no commitment.
Monogamous, committed, serious....but not rushing into cohabitation or having that as the goal for the first year or so.
This sounds more like GF/BF. This is the kind of thing I find the right way to go about things. Take some time, get to know each other, enjoy life and then decide if living together and later getting married is what both of you want.
To each their own- hopefully whatever way you do it it works out, maybe for the long run. | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 3:34:08 PM | Wow, after reading most of these responses, I just have to ask...does ANYONE believe in marriage anymore? Granted, most of us have been married before (and burned), but I'm willing to give it another try.
I love the idea of spending the rest of my life with someone, waking up to the same person every morning, making dinner together, spending time with our families and generally knowing that someone will be waiting for you when you get home from work.
I truly have no desire to have a 3-4 year "dating" relationship with someone, and basically that's all it is is "dating." You have your place, he has his and you get together every weekend. Nah, not for me...not long term.
I'm also not saying that I'm willing to go get the marriage license after dating for a few months, but I'd sure like to know ahead of time if the man's ideal arrangement would be to only get together every weekend and considers this a "long term" relationship. | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 4:11:42 PM | Message 130
I think a lot of us wouldn't mind being married - as long as its to the right person.
OK - so what is your ideal time frame? How long do you need to know someone before your pretty sure you'd want to marry?
I'm also not saying that I'm willing to go get the marriage license after dating for a few months, but I'd sure like to know ahead of time if the man's ideal arrangement would be to only get together every weekend and considers this a "long term" relationship.
I think the meeting up would become more often as the relationship grew. If you don't want to get hitched in a few months, which is sensible- why not take a year or two?
I get the feeling that if a man doesn't express his undying commitment in the first few weeks, he's seen as a playboy, a player or a commitment-phobe. I think good relationships take time to build. The last girl I was with seemed to be in a rush but soon those darned old skeletons started leaping out of the closet- I'm glad I didn't live with her when I found those things out.
When first starting out- I say- proceed with caution and both eyes open. | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 4:27:31 PM | Honestly, there is no time frame. But a year or two? I think that's reasonable.
But what is wrong with asking if that's what you want for the future? I have been reading these forums over the past few weeks and I see a lot of people saying "You must COMMUNICATE and let someone know how you feel." So, you do and then you're considered too needy, looking to get hitched right away, etc.
But from what I read on here, the perfect relationship would be to have separate homes and only see each other every weekend. That's just not my thing. Why can't I ask up front what their idea is of the perfect relationship or what they consider "long term?"
I'm tried of playing these "dating protocol" games. | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 4:36:13 PM |
from what I read on here, the perfect relationship would be to have separate homes and only see each other every weekend. That's just not my thing. Why can't I ask up front what their idea is of the perfect relationship or what they consider "long term?"
My ultimate ideal would be a relationship that sustains so well, and stands the test of time for a year or two, and does lead to "happily ever after".
The reality has been over the past several years, that if I weren't enthusiastic about cohabiting after 2 months, then the depth of commitment was called into question. So, at this point, I'm determined to NOT go there during the first year, which doesn't mean that I'm not serious or willing to commit. It merely means that, until you're really sure that this relationship is "the one", that living together can easily ruin something that was going well, prior to subjecting it to the "business" of sharing the same residence. | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 4:38:34 PM | I believe that the goal of a 24/7 committed relationship whether married/ or common law is respect of each other space and privacy, trust,* give and take,* ( if you can not give back don't take ) . In relationship/ or just common friendship a cheapskate and moocher won't go very far...............
I would rather have a BF that in the end of the day ,he'd be asking me or vice versa "your place or mine '?? | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 4:47:15 PM |
But what is wrong with asking if that's what you want for the future? I have been reading these forums over the past few weeks and I see a lot of people saying "You must COMMUNICATE and let someone know how you feel." So, you do and then you're considered too needy, looking to get hitched right away, etc.
If your goal is to get married eventually, I see nothing wrong with saying that up front. Whoever says they consider that needy or looking to get hitched right away is really trying to avoid the subject altogether, so don't let that stop you. | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 4:53:23 PM | OP: I understand what you're saying.
I'm sure I wouldn't even consider the thought of co-habitating after only 2 months, but I think you should be honest with each other and let the other person know what you want in a relationship. And I think if you've been dating for several months and are exclusive with each other, you shouldn't feel that you can't bring up the subject for fear of "expecting too much too soon."
Can you tell I've already had this conversation?  | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 5:23:52 PM |
janet4ever--If your goal is to get married eventually, I see nothing wrong with saying that up front. Whoever says they consider that needy or looking to get hitched right away is really trying to avoid the subject altogether, so don't let that stop you.
lovinlifeat44--think you should be honest with each other and let the other person know what you want in a relationship. And I think if you've been dating for several months and are exclusive with each other, you shouldn't feel that you can't bring up the subject for fear of "expecting too much too soon."
If men and women could have those discussions in a "reasonable" atmosphere of mutual understanding, it would be great. The problem is, as reasonable as that all sounds, it's not often the reality, when those discussions take place.
If I could say to a woman, early on, that "I'm open to marriage, if I find the right relationship, that seems like it would sustain for the rest of our lives. I can't have the certainty about that, until we have a good relationship that has lasted for a year or more, and I don't want to talk about it, until we've passed the one year mark".
My experience has been that women are never content with that response. So, if I say that I am interested in marriage, it isn't long before it's a constant subject of conversation, being shown various destinations as "what do you think of this as a good place for our honeymoon, if we do end up married?", or her wondering "what's wrong" that I haven't put a ring on her finger.
It becomes THE "issue", and ultimately ruins things. The reality is, as I stated above, if the relationship is harmonious and mutually fulfilling, with no "red flags" after we pass the one year mark, I'm open to starting to consider marriage. Until then, I would like to find a mutually satisfactory dynamic that works "in the now". I would far prefer a long term relationship that is limited to weekends, than a 3-4 month relationship, where there is constant pressure to discuss marriage. | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 5:57:30 PM | OP: Darn, and I was hoping to slither away to another thread and not have to post in this one again. But you are fun to debate with! 
I'm truly sorry that you've met women like this in the past, but don't feel like all women are this way (i.e., bringing up destinations for honeymoons, etc. )
I guess I consider it a shame that you CAN'T say to a woman early on "I'm open to marriage" without them turning into a Bridezilla. Why can't we all just be honest with each other? Heck, we're not getting any younger. Why beat around the bush as to what we want and don't want? | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 6:09:56 PM | Messages 135 and 136 (Janet4ever and lovinlifeat44)
I guess it comes down to intentions and time frame. Stating them upfront is great and honest. But when is the time right to start talking seriously about marriage? Janet4ever already inferred that guys are just trying to avoid the subject - one they haven't fully had time time to explore their own feelings or reached certainty on yet.
Help us single guys out here- a little insight-
At that point several months into the relationship,what is it you want to hear from the marriage discussion?
"Sure lets get married in a year or two."
"I think things are progressing along nicely-lets wait and see"
"I'll run out tomorrow, get the ring start looking for a new house and book the church and honeymoon vacation."
I think anything less than the last one gets a guy in a " do these jeans make look fat?" type of scenario.
How often should it be discussed? every day every week every month? If its too often it doesn't sound like communication- it sounds like pressure.
It's just a case of the old classic battle- girl feels like shes being strung along, guys feel pressured into doing something too soon. Its a relationship , where there should be some give and take and some trust. Shouldn't both parties be comfortable with their decisions?
Marriage is a long term goal- but why not have a set of mini goals of getting to know you, discuss the future as things solidify, address things that may be an issue, figure out that this is the way you want to spend your life, maybe move in together if its not against your beliefs and then get married? Your missing out on a lot of stuff if you just put on your wedding sneakers and run straight to the alter. You both may regret it later and your just older and divorced (again).
As other posters have stated, its not for everyone. Sometimes a committed relationship, with some time apart, is as good or better than a marriage. The only real difference is a ceremony, a piece of paper and having to pay a lawyer if things don't work out. Here in Canada your pretty much married after you live together anyway so it's just about the same.
Enough for now - trueT
edit>Renman- we must have been typing at the same time- guess we both have been down the same road-lol. | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 6:18:14 PM | | You just have not found your kind of woman. There are many women with the same goal. You are right saying that living together ruins a romantic relationship. I detest hearing: "It is so romantic." I bet people do not know what romantic means - they just know that it should be pleasant/beautiful. The ones who say that you should always be happy only encourage selfishness and self-indulgence. All that will lead to self-distruction. Be happy - take a pill or sleep with anyone that wants you or a young hooker. Look at Freddy Mercury - he was enjoying himself and lived his life to the fullest. A where he is now? Dead. Too much love (and fun) can kill you. How about taking care of someone else. That is when life has a meaning. Movie Ghost Town is a great example how to listen to others and care of people who are not just hot. And what about to be a protector for a woman? | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 6:29:19 PM | Truetemp1: Please forgive me as I don't know how to quote someone yet.
I can't stress this enough, obviously. We're not looking for someone to talk about marriage immediately, we just want to know where a man stands with regard to it. We're not trying to hound you about marriage, but asking about whether you are looking to marry again...well, what's wrong with that?
Oh, I guess I didn't answer your question. "When is the right time to start talking about marriage?" Who knows? When it feels right? When you absolutely know that she/he is the one for you?
I just want to know upfront what a man wants. Heck, they have a movie about what a woman wants. Why can't we have one too?? | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 6:41:35 PM | lovinlifeat44, to quote, you clip and paste, and then type a bracket, [, and then the word quote, and close it with a bracket, ]...then paste in the text and do the bracket again, [/quote....then close the bracket with ]
As I posted earlier:
If I could say to a woman, early on, that "I'm open to marriage, if I find the right relationship, that seems like it would sustain for the rest of our lives. I can't have the certainty about that, until we have a good relationship that has lasted for a year or more, and I don't want to talk about it, until we've passed the one year mark".
Honestly, would you accept that and let it go for a full year? Most women, in my experience, won't. And, if there's pressure about it, it really turns the focus away from just enjoying each other and letting the future unfold, into something where you have to "make a decision". Once a guy says "maybe", school's out, if he isn't ready to be "24/7" with all the resulting sulking, hurt feelings, and "relationship discussions".
So, discussing it is a shortcut to ruining things, in my experience, or in ending up living together too soon. | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 6:46:23 PM | | I'm not in a rush to get married. I'm not even sure I really WANT to get married. I do know that I do want a committed relationship, and that does include living together at SOME point, but I wouldn't rush into it. I think you should be together for at LEAST a year, if not a bit longer first. That being said, if I was with the guy I thought was the love of my life and he decided to propose after say...10 months, I figure I'd accept if it felt right at the time. But I wouldn't push a guy into it...unless we've been together for like 4 years and he's still dragging his heels about at least moving in together. | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 6:53:55 PM | Yes, I would let that go for a full year.
But I'm seeing someone now who also feels like you. He has been divorced now for 15 years. Has had long term relationships that lasted for YEARS. And you have to ask, WHY? Do you not want to commit? So darn straight I'm gonna ask up front. I'm not looking for that guy who wants the "long term" relationship for years and years and isn't willing to say "Hey, let's take this just one step further."
Why waste my time and yours? | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 7:28:48 PM | Loveinlife- It's all good- I may keep bring the time frame thing up- but as you said- who knows when its right- its the thing that makes relationships tricky.
Yes your right - we should all go into relationships honestly. It doesn't always happen though- and then we question the others underlying agenda and how it will affect our own plans. Trying to filter through it is part of the dilemma- if we could all communicate more effectively- and understand men's and women's interpretations of things- we could be better off.
Being able to get through all the talks in a relationship without hurt feels and hostility is tough sometimes- and on POF forums- sometimes known as "Plenty of Fighting"- but it may help us all out - you may be informed and entertained at the same time!
<div class="quote">I just want to know upfront what a man wants.
The answer depends on the individual- to each their own, There a generalities but in this case - its a case by case basis. I would ask the same of women and get many different answers but obviously the OP and I have seen the same thing. Talking about marriage usually means "whens it going to happen MISTER?"
Just cut some of us guys a little slack and know that we are not all just "users" and sometimes we feel a little used too.
Edit LinLife- so how long have YOU been seeing this guy? Did you tell him upfront you want marriage? If its been a year or more- guess its time to fish or cut bait. Tell him to get off the pot. Just be sure your happier without him- ah decisions decisons- why can't people just act they way we want. | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 7:51:25 PM |
Iron Rule of Tomassi #4
NEVER under any circumstance live with a woman you aren't married to or are not planning to marry in within 6 months.
You are utterly powerless in this situation. NEVER buy a home with a girlfriend, NEVER sign a rental lease with a girlfriend. NEVER agree to move into her home and absolutely NEVER move a woman into your own established living arrangement. I'm adamantly opposed to the "shacking up" dynamic, it is a trap that far too many men allow themselves to fall into. My fervor agianst this isn't based on some moral issue, it it simple pragmatism. I know a fellow right now who is in the pit of misery with a girl he signed an apartment lease with for a year and has had to basically live with his ex for the past 5 months and wont get out of the lease until May. If you live with a woman you may as well be married because upon doing so every liability and accountability of marriage is then in effect. You not only lose any freedom of annonymity you commit to, legally, being responsible for the continuation of your living arrangements regardless of how your relationship decays.
I should also emphasize the point that when you commit (and it is a financial committment) to cohabiting with a GF you will notice a marked decrease in her sexual availability and desire, trust me on this. All of that competitive anxiety and it's resulting sexual tension that made your single sex life so great is removed from her shoulders and she can comfortably relax in the knowledge that she is your ONLY source of sexual intimacy. Putting your name on that lease with her (even if it's just your name) is akin to signing an insurance polcy for her - "I the undersigned promise not to fukk any woman but this girl for a one year term." She thinks, "if he wasn't serious about me, he wouldn't have signed the lease." Now all of that impetus and energy that made having marathon sex with you an outright necessity is relaxed. She controls the frame and she's got it in writing that it is for at least a year.
Just don't do it. Relationships last best when you spin more plates or at the very least keep each other at arm's distance. Look how this applies to your situation here.
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 8:57:10 PM |
Honestly, would you accept that and let it go for a full year? Most women, in my experience, won't. And, if there's pressure about it, it really turns the focus away from just enjoying each other and letting the future unfold, into something where you have to "make a decision". Once a guy says "maybe", school's out, if he isn't ready to be "24/7" with all the resulting sulking, hurt feelings, and "relationship discussions".
I'm not interested in getting married again. Maybe living together after a long (more than year) time if it makes sense for us. I don't think turning some guy into a husband is such a grand prize... but then I have had much experience in this area.
I do think people have the right and obligation though to discuss their long term goals... and not be afraid to bring them up from time to time along the way.
I've had a couple of long terms end because of my reluctance to become someone's wife again... even though i was upfront from the beginning. But I didn't have the same feeling of being cornered or emotionally blackmailed as a few men here have described... I just thought "well, they want something else obviously" so time to move on. | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 10:04:07 PM | Why can't two people be in a monogamous, committed relationship, yet maintain some personal autonomy? .
People CAN DO THAT easily. It's just not what the concept of family is all about. It's good for singles to make that arrangement, although.......there are some men and women that want to marry or live together for financial reasons ALSO ( in addition to other things)and for the legal benefits that it entails. I have a very wealthy friend that would like to find a long term partner to live with, but he does not want to legally marry. Some women would not be with him if they had to sign a prenup and do not agree that he wants to leave more than a half of what he has to his 3 children, meaning: the woman wants to know that she is the priority, even if she is a financially independent woman. So.......he ends up dating career women who will not be exclusive with him.
With the live-in arrangement the partner becomes the priority, legally speaking. Some people prefer not to do that because they don't want their common law partner to be entitled to that. Living together entails more compromises and more personal responsibility.
Personally, I would prefer to live on my own and to be in a relationship with an independent man, at least till when I feel secure enough to go the other way ( could be a matter of years).
Some people do like the feeling of coming home to somebody who is tied to them legally. It is simply more binding, both legally and on the formal level with respect to society: living together also becomes a matter of commitment in front of society and in front of the law. Everybody would be ready to condemn a cheater if He/she was either married or in a live-in situation. This would not be a big deal for society to accept, if the 2 lived apart.
I would gladly keep my freedom, my privacy and my time alone, if I met a person willing to do the same and as long as the person is willing to treat me once in a while.... The man looks after the woman, so to speak, kind of arrangement. Men that enjoy doing that usually want to get married and have a sense of physical belonging: I can understand that. | |
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 10:13:46 PM | Janet4 ever
Did you clearly spell out where the relationship was going ? Right from the outset?
Or did the people involved have a change of heart after agreeing to the original terms?
Yes pushing someone into something they're not sure of is not a good idea. Maybe people are more worried about being in a relationship rather than the person they are involved with at the time. It is good to check to see where you're relationship is at - from "time to time".
But I didn't have the same feeling of being cornered or emotionally blackmailed as a few men here have described... I just thought "well, they want something else obviously" so time to move on.
Is it that you were not emotionally invested in these relationships and found it just as easy to walk? Or after a while you knew the relationship wasn't going anyplace. Men get accused of being players for exactly the same thing, using a woman for sex and leaving when it becomes commitment time. Your just wasting someone else's time. Do you wonder- what was wrong with the way the relationship was?
So - I guess you agree that 24 and 7 and married isn't required for a relationship.
Hats off- we should all be in a situation that is good for all involved.
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| Must the goal be 24/7 in a committed relationship?
Posted: 8/2/2009 10:24:18 PM | I don't think you have to be under the same roof to be committed of course but with the right person, I think that's what a lot of people want. With the right person you can live together or even be married and still have enough space for some autonomy.
Next time I live with someone though I'd honestly prefer my own bedroom and for him to have his. Doesn't mean we won't sleep together but my stuff and his stuff can be exactly the way we want it to be. The bed is another matter. On nights away from each other because we went to bed at different times or just want a few hours alone or for whatever reason, we can sneak into each others rooms in the middle of the night for "fun" instead of routine. Also, I can't imagine not having a single room in the house that isn't my own anymore. Kids have their own rooms, why shouldn't the adults. | |
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