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| Astrology
Posted: 7/28/2009 10:31:02 PM |
Did you go over the two charts I showed you? I picked the second one at random right before I posted. I am thinking it would be better if both of us had a believer who didn't know anything about astrology read each description without the labels of where each description came from and decide how much of it is accurate.
How do you know which site I used? I didn't link to a site.
I did - but I can't really comment on it. Like I said I just did my own - from astro.com using the "personal portrait" which has Sun&Moon, Ascendant&Ruler with its House ... and then other different aspects of the chart - and honestly I'm not entirely sure how and why these samples are chosen because they're different for different charts. Unfortunately I didn't save my document with the highlighting because I considered myself finished with this thread and was only doing it to see for myself how accurate they were. I did a visual check with the colours - although to be honest I thought 25% was being low for the wrong answers. However, now I look at it the I see there is possibly more written in the chart that wasn't mine, but the wrong statements were still pretty well dispersed. I chose my friend's chart precisely because we have a lot in common and wanted to see how different it would be.
I was trying to figure out where you got yours, and clicked on http://www.0800-horoscope.com/birthchart.php which is the first one that comes up with Google and because it has the exact same format that you used in your columns - with the planets on one side and the houses on the other so that when you put it in 1 column they go back and forth. Was this not the site?
To be fair you would have to try my method going through astro.com's format highlighting each statement, and I would have to try yours.
I will let you know how my test goes with the 2 charts I sent to 10 friends - so far 1 person got it right and 1 couldn't decide. | |
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Posted: 7/28/2009 10:41:22 PM |
I did - but I can't really comment on it. Like I said I just did my own - from astro.com using the "personal portrait" which has Sun&Moon, Ascendant&Ruler with its House ... and then other different aspects of the chart - and honestly I'm not entirely sure how and why these samples are chosen because they're different for different charts.
Well, they seem to have a few bugs in their software...
apart from it not even being close for me.. When I looked deeper I noticed that they had errors in processing time...
It incorrectly resolved my local time to Universal time... and there was an error of an hour... | |
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Posted: 7/28/2009 10:42:35 PM |
I was trying to figure out where you got yours, and clicked on http://www.0800-horoscope.com/birthchart.php which is the first one that comes up with Google and because it has the exact same format that you used in your columns - with the planets on one side and the houses on the other so that when you put it in 1 column they go back and forth. Was this not the site?
lol! That's funny, I totally typed that out on my own. :) I used cafeastrology.com. They actually list a lot more detail than what I showed, but I just kept it fairly simple in comparison.
If you want to go through mine, send me a message and I'll tell you my dob, tob and pob. | |
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Posted: 7/29/2009 8:22:13 AM | To Makista_Raven:
I'm not very familiar w/ the e-mail system here - but I have some filters (smoking, etc.) - so please tell me on this forum if you e-mail me & I don't respond.
Thank you -- | |
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Posted: 7/29/2009 10:19:26 AM | | "Don't need no astrology. It's inside you and me." -- Ozzy Osbourne | |
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Posted: 7/29/2009 1:33:08 PM |
lol! That's funny, I totally typed that out on my own. :) I used cafeastrology.com. They actually list a lot more detail than what I showed, but I just kept it fairly simple in comparison.
Raaaandom. The thing is the more I think about it the more it just seems to go nowhere - the ifs and hows of proving it all right or wrong. And I really feel like it has to do with the scientific method and the astrological method and how to get them to line up.
I basically feel the same way about trying to prove anything in psychology and behaviour as well. There are simply too many variables in an individuals' nature to make ANY study repeatable. It's like taking a bucket full of ocean water and studying the behaviour of only the organisms in it and then saying this must be true of all the small organisms in the ocean. If you were to take the same bucket and try again in another part of the ocean, it would most likely be very different. Even if it was the same species. Especially if you were trying to determine the personality of the organisms!
All anyone has done is forced me to prove that my own chart is significant, and now my conception is also significant, and confirmed what I thought before, that simplistic explanations for complex behaviours will never work. I am bored of this now, and will wait to see how your results go - I'll send my info, but I don't need to look at yours. 3 people responded now from my test : 2 correct, 1 undecided. | |
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Posted: 7/29/2009 2:20:29 PM | ^^^^
After your feedback, I decided I am going to take someone's birth chart and their MBTI profile and make a Venn diagram. I will also make Venn diagrams with the MBTI profiles and the 12 basic sun signs and see if, though there are no current trends by the current overview, if there are specific areas of each sign and a person's MBTI profile that seem to trend.
Also, another aspect using Synastry and the MBTI's theories on which types work well together also using Venn diagrams. | |
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Posted: 7/29/2009 4:53:33 PM | This thread should be required reading for anyone who ever wants to bring the subject of Astrology up again (yea right)!
I basically feel the same way about trying to prove anything in psychology and behaviour as well. There are simply too many variables in an individuals' nature to make ANY study repeatable.
I agree...genetics, environment, life experiences, diet, etc. Just the other day I read something somewhere that said psychoanalysis has been proven to not be helpful - but I didn't earmark the source and I don't know if it's "true" or not.
I also wanted to mention that not only did I find reading about the signs entertaining and enlightening as to personality traits and tendencies, I also found the physical descriptions of each sign quite uncanny as well. Of course, that doesn't prove anything but it's just weird the way it's so accurately descriptive in many ways. | |
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Posted: 7/29/2009 5:56:13 PM | i have a tendency to be attracted to certain signs- something i never noticed until a few years ago. there are some traits that seem to be natural to some signs. the first time i ever thought about was meeting someone i'd never met before, we talked for about ten minutes- where are you from, what do you like to do, etc- and she said, you're a leo, aren't you? i am, and no, i hadn't told her my bday.
as far as people picking what they thought were signs based on their beliefs and being wrong- most people don't actually know much about astrology, so what they assume are traits are often wrong to begin with.
i'm not an astrologist, and i have no opinion as to how valid it is, but i have noticed that i tend to end up being with scorpios, aries, pisces, and libras. don't know why, but it's fun to think about. we don't know enough about any of the world to say definitively what is or is not real or possible. so take it, enjoy it, and do with it what you will, i say. | |
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Posted: 7/29/2009 6:27:28 PM |
I also wanted to mention that not only did I find reading about the signs entertaining and enlightening as to personality traits and tendencies, I also found the physical descriptions of each sign quite uncanny as well. Of course, that doesn't prove anything but it's just weird the way it's so accurately descriptive in many ways.
As in height/weight/athleticism/attractiveness? | |
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Posted: 7/29/2009 11:08:17 PM |
Just the other day I read something somewhere that said psychoanalysis has been proven to not be helpful - but I didn't earmark the source and I don't know if it's "true" or not.
Yes I have read this many times. I personally believe mentally repeating one's troubles over and over and analyzing does nothing but entrench them further into one's psyche. Subtle, energetic and creative therapies I've found much more helpful to people but are not as easily understood theoretically, so tend to get disregarded by the mainstream. It's easier to get a prescription for a dangerous unproven drug when you're depressed yet a treatment that can make you feel so much better is avoided because it's considered "hokey" and "new age". One of the saddest things of the contemporary world I've ever seen.
I also wanted to mention that not only did I find reading about the signs entertaining and enlightening as to personality traits and tendencies, I also found the physical descriptions of each sign quite uncanny as well.
Yes I keep note of people in different signs and have often noticed certain physical features repeating in different signs - though to be honest I feel like this is a seasonal thing. There is no hard line between one sign and another, but fluctuations based on time of birth. I've also noticed weird things with specific birthdays. Besides several times falling in love with people whose birthdays are within days of mine, 2 roommates that I got into a huge fight with were born on the same day, and have the same career. 2 famous animators were born on August 1 in the year of the dragon. Patterns like this are fascinating and forever inconclusive. | |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 8:42:07 AM |
As in height/weight/athleticism/attractiveness?
Box, just as in my opinion about behavior and personality, nothing is absolute and many factors can alter and modify anything. I can't even put it into words because it is an observation based on people I've known, some obvious and some not. You can read the "How to Recognize" chapter in Linda Goodman's Sun Signs (link below) for each sign, read the physical descriptions, and see what I mean about it being an internal recognition. Also, there's very liberal use of the terms "may" "sometimes" "might" "often" etc., as opposed to terms like "always" "will" "all" "every".
http://mizian.com.ne.kr/englishwiz/library/names/zodiac/contents.htm | |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 8:42:27 AM | Wow! after reading 18 pages I still don't know what to believe.
I have always looked at it more for entertainment. But my wife and one of her friends were reading an astrology book when they came to my sign, an Aries. They read my personality traits and it did kind of hit home.
Later my wife and I had charts done....mine hit the garbage after I read it..thinking what a waste of bucks! Of course the excuse was I hadn't provided the time at which I was born.
Obviously, at least in this topic there's a helleva lot more intelligent people than myself!
But I do have a question for two of those who made the following statements, caveat that, they both sound like very intelligent people!
m___church said this; "prove it.....science is provable" and
verityone, who said this; "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof".
My question to both; Why are we still exploring space, at least our universe as we know it. Isn't one of the goals in space exploration to seek out proof of life either past or present? Most scientist believe we'll eventually find some type of proof...but how long will that take us?
I know that sounds a little off topic, but is it really?
BTW, my wife was Scorpio, I'm an Aries, it lasted over 3 decades. Maybe some of you Scorpio gals should check out Aries. Myself, I wonder what it would be like to date an Aries woman. | |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 9:11:13 AM | Years back a guy at work had a book that had detailed horoscopes for all 365 days in the year. He was going around the office reading each person the horoscope for the day of the year they were born on, and everyone was lauding the readings as being amazingly accurate.
So, I asked him to let me read horoscopes to the people in the office who he hadn't approached yet.
I simply read them a horoscope for a day of the year nowhere near their actual birthdate. And as I entirely expected, they lauded the the readings as being amazingly accurate! Now, how could a reading for a birthdate nowhere near their own be "amazingly accurate?"
Granted, this was by no means a scientific study. I'm not trying to pass it off as anything more than an amusing anecdote. But it made me laugh nonetheless. | |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 12:24:02 PM |
Years back a guy at work had a book that had detailed horoscopes for all 365 days in the year. He was going around the office reading each person the horoscope for the day of the year they were born on, and everyone was lauding the readings as being amazingly accurate.
So, I asked him to let me read horoscopes to the people in the office who he hadn't approached yet.
I simply read them a horoscope for a day of the year nowhere near their actual birthdate. And as I entirely expected, they lauded the the readings as being amazingly accurate! Now, how could a reading for a birthdate nowhere near their own be "amazingly accurate?"
Interesting take! Thanks for the perspective! | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 7/30/2009 12:55:48 PM | I have been keeping up with this thread and as expected it went off on a tangent...
I have silly ideas I want to share.
If astrology is nothing but truth and that your destiny and all that will happen to you is already "charted" out by planets and suns at the moment of your birth...
Why is it then that life brings events that are a complete surprise?...
Why not know in advance that the man you are going to marry will end up you ex?
It would prevent a divorce...
Why do you not proceed to take precautions in order not to get pregnant by a one night stand?... It would prevent unwanted pregnancies...
Etc, etc, etc...
See what I mean???
Isn't it all pre mapped out for those of you that believe?... I wonder...
Yet, people pay huge amounts of money to a person that is supposed to tell them in advance what is going to happen to them... Yea right...
I would love to have an astrologer say things like for example...
On June 25, 2010 stay at home. The bloke you are going to meet and have sex with has aids...
On Septemeber 15th, 20011... Do not have sex that night... You will get pregnant...
On August 10th 2009, make sure your brother stays with you all day to prevent a horrible car accident and his eventual death.
Now, THAT would be useful.
I mean... Our paths are all supposed to be pre determined right?
So... why bother trying to change things then?
Why bother to better yourself or aspire to reach goals?...
Nah... astrology is like junk food for those that need to have SOMEONE tell them what they are supposed to be thinking and doing...
Sadly, there are many of those around.
Charismatic religious leaders love that type of persona... No wonder that same flock really gets off on astrology to...
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Posted: 7/30/2009 1:01:46 PM | To go even further in my train of thought...
At birth, do a chart and it would show that the baby will be a murderer... or a pedophile or a drug lord... etc...
We could do some major cleansing... See what I mean... bogus stuff.
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| Astrology
Posted: 7/30/2009 1:51:09 PM |
I mean... Our paths are all supposed to be pre determined right?
So... why bother trying to change things then?
Why bother to better yourself or aspire to reach goals?...
Nah... astrology is like junk food for those that need to have SOMEONE tell them what they are supposed to be thinking and doing...
This isn't true at all, it's not what astrology claims to do. There is nothing conclusive about what astrology describes, it most often stays in the realm of the complex and subtle, although at times it can be incredibly accurate. It describes tendencies and energies, and looks at the overlapping patterns, and that's pretty much it. It simply makes correlations with what is happening up there and what is going on with people down here.
I've never met a proponent of astrology (to be honest I've only had my chart looked at by 2 psychologists versed in astrology, not an astrologer) who has come close to claiming that everything is predetermined, especially with the kinds of specifics you've mentioned. For example, the whole reason I got into it over the last few years was because I kept hearing people talk about the "Saturn Return" with very serious tones.
It is a period of time beginning roughly at 27 and going through to about 30. It is when Saturn makes one full rotation in the sky and comes back to the sign it was in when you were born. I was given the information for when this was to happen precisely down to the week when it actually passes by where it was at birth - it happened to be the same week I was already going to Hiroshima Japan. Obviously nobody could have told me this event would be marked in this way, but obviously this trip profoundly changed much of my vision of the world, and indeed put the spotlight on both the most difficult and most rewarding aspects of my life : career and health.
Nobody predicted I would be going to Japan based on the chart, and nobody can tell you what these events mean exactly to you.
Saturn Return almost always requires some major adjustments in lifestyle, attitudes, and relationships. Anything you have outgrown, or have tolerated but not found satisfying, must end now or be altered to meet your emerging needs. According to Hand, "Consciously or unconsciously, you are pruning your life of everything that is not relevant to what you really are as a human being."
Having watched those around me go through significant changes, as well as myself deciding to pursue science after 10 years of fine arts, few can argue the years leading up to 30 are a time of big change - and it is ALL based on what YOU have already done with your life, and that is very far from predetermined.
Another word on the research regarding astrology. I've observed 3 different methods of inquiry into this, all with different arguments for and against.
1. Is astrological interpretation more accurate than chance? This tests the interpretations themselves, the astrologers and others ability to describe and guess personality descriptions.
2. Can astrology work? As in - what are the cause and effect methods for any direct relation between stars, planets and us here on Earth. These arguments are all inconclusive - we don't have a tested theory, which doesn't mean there isn't one, just that one hasn't been found.
3. Are there actual correlations between the cycle of the cosmos and human life, as outlined in astrology? For this I've read studies now that do find patterns, though not always the predicted ones. So much more research would be needed into the hundreds of components of human life that it could never be exhaustive.
All of these questions are directed at different parts of how astrology works, or doesn't work. It is impossible to have a discussion around this when people are using bits and pieces of 3 different arguments, when they all need very separate methods and ways of finding proof.
My test : 5 responses of friends guessing my birth chart vs. a random one. 3 guessed correct, 2 undecided. So far, well above chance. | |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 2:06:58 PM |
My test : 5 responses of friends guessing my birth chart vs. a random one. 3 guessed correct, 2 undecided. So far, well above chance.
Wrong.... change is correct 50% of the time.... undecided counts as guessing incorrect as they could not determine if it was correct or not....
Therefore with 5 people, 2 could be wrong... 3 could be right... or the other way around... your sample is too small to reveal it....either way it only takes one wrong or right guess to make "well above chance" to "well below chance"... | |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 3:10:54 PM | My test : 5 responses of friends guessing my birth chart vs. a random one. 3 guessed correct, 2 undecided. So far, well above chance.
So, if I told a story about how some of my friends and acquaintances have been absolutely awful in guessing my birth sign, would that mean anything to you? Because that's usually the way it works out when someone tries to guess my sign. Of course, most of my friends already know my birthday (I mean, they're my friends after all). | |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 4:08:27 PM | I'm still waiting on the other 5 to respond and I've asked the undecideds to decide - by narrowing the 5 paragraphs down to 3 based on importance in astrology. I included Sun, Moon, Mercury, Ascendant and North Node - which is not a planet but a calculation of Sun, Moon and Ascendant, often considered the 3 most important parts of the chart. I narrowed it down for the undecideds to Sun, Ascendant and North Node. Why? Because since the Moon is supposed to govern the subconscious, inner life, I wouldn't expect most people to know about my hidden world. But taken together - the 3 elements including the Moon, which adds up to the North Node, at least takes into account the reality that most astrologers use the full combination of elements in the chart as a description. The fact that I'm using individual descriptions from a website (astrolabe) of course makes it less realistic. One undecided, based on me narrowing the descriptions to the 3 most important parts - was correct. The point I'm doing this was skeptics challenging me to try a few tests for myself - and all it's done is confirm the accuracy.
I totally don't think it's easy to guess anyone's birth sign, and I'm not implying that, by the very fact that so many other parts of a birth chart can render the sun sign less important. It's like saying my personality is 15, and astrology measure it in 4 parts ... the ways I can break that down into four different numbers is quite high. The Sun sign would be like one of those 4 numbers, most of the time the highest number, within the 15 total - nearly impossible to guess. | |
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Posted: 11/10/2009 8:11:07 PM | AFTER SEX SAYINGS BY THE SIGNS...
Aries "Okay, let's do it again!"
Taurus "I'm hungry pass the pizza."
Gemini "Have you seen the remote?"
Cancer "When are we getting married?"
Leo "Wasn't I fantastic?"
Virgo "I need to wash the sheets."
Libra "I liked it if you liked it."
Scorpio "Perhaps I should untie you."
Sagittarius "Don't call me I'll call you."
Capricorn "Do you have a business card?"
Aquarius "Now let's try it with our clothes off!"
Pisces "What did you say your name was again?" | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 11/10/2009 9:25:56 PM | | I dont put any faith in astrology, its just nonsense. Its a nice converstional piece to discuss , its like chineese fortune cookies, a favorable thing the masses want to believe. The only thing I put my faith in is my own intuition and ones behaviors. | |
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Posted: 11/10/2009 9:47:43 PM | HMMPH! *gets on pet unicorn and flies away*
I like astrology but dont necessarily place FAITH in it.
Just like, I like talking politics , and well .....dont believe in that either | |
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| Astrology
Posted: 11/11/2009 10:07:29 AM | It's your choice but I wouldn't recommend it. Not everything you read and literally believe in is good for your health (I also agree with other opinions here that religion is irrational and so is astrology).
If already heavily into these then more likely it is no longer just an interest but a belief (reliance or co-dependency), just KEEP AWAY from any canabis, hallucengics or the like (as recommended by another reader on this post).
Guard and protect your body, mind and emotions. Under drugs of hallucengics, you may not be in control of yourself and it's effects. You are adults who can make your own decisions, sometimes some decisions that are made are not wise (not good for us), but there were others before you that have made these mistakes and can share of their own experience, but ultimately it is the individual's decision.
The thought process in the way one thinks becomes disoriented (disturbed or confused) because the processing in the brain cannot understand the dynamics (ie "how" does it work: a knowledge is required of the origins of rules) and causes the individual to lack in logic and reasoning. We are functioning based on logic and reasoning (to arrive at a conclusion, action or decision). If you start believing and relying soley based on someone's belief or something, you are not complying with your own thoughts anymore, and you're own personal actions may be swayed due to your belief in it. It can be poison. | |
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