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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/8/2009 4:15:48 PM | Can any of you think of a way to get more of the Republican / Christian / Conservatives to come out to films with us? Too many Glebeites there (an ottawa neighborhood similar to the ny village, but with more straight people pretending they're gay). It's that whole Latte crowd. But if you start serving Tim Hortons coffee and donuts instead of the Pantry Vegetarian Tea Room madagascar cinnamon tea, and decide to show rambo, even in french, count me in.
But to be honest, you have to change the name from "Film Group" to something like "Movie Club". | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/8/2009 6:08:22 PM | I enjoy subtitles, as I do not have time (yet) to learn the languages enough to enjoy them in the native tongue(s).
That said, the reason I rarely go to see indie or foreign films is that most of them only show in urban locations that take either more traffic/frustration to get to than I'm willing to spend or only show at times that are very inconvenient for me (morning, early afternoon, or late night). | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/9/2009 12:35:08 AM | Well, the fact is that most people today consider themselves centrists with both left and right leanings on certain political issues, I'm one of them. I believe in the right to abortion, and I also believe in the right to own guns, and so forth. It's really only a fairly staunch 30%+/- that come down in both the very left and very right camps.
But the reality is still that anyone coming down more left than right is more open minded about experiencing new things, being open to the arts, etc. It's no big secret. | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/9/2009 3:16:36 AM | mister tee - Your man card has been officially revoked.
Reason - Excessive use of emoticons.
Your card will be returned after 6 months, if it has been shown that you can refrain from excessive use of said emoticons.
Thank You for your cooperation.
The Board of Men | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/9/2009 9:11:23 AM |
No Excuses Please said
Why would the political views of people that enjoy the same films as you matter,OP?
You all enjoy a common interest.
Why look more deeply into it than that?
It matters because if all of the members of the group are coming from the same political / gender / religious point of view, we don't end up with a well-rounded discussion on a film. For instance, we saw "W" the film about Bush... We all thought it would be 90 minutes of making fun of the man, but we thought it was actually very fair and showed him in an interesting light -- even so, out of the 14 of us who watched this movie, NONE of us really liked Bush... it would have been great to get the perspective of someone who supported him; we even talked about THAT in our discussion.
Does that make sense?
James, Port Orchard, Washington, USA, Earth | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/9/2009 9:32:12 AM | Mister Tee said
My guess is that the OP was being disingenuous.
I could be wrong but here's why I am asserting this-
1) Why ask people in here? There's at best a 50:50 mix of cons:liberals, if that.
If he were sincere, he would go to CrossTalk or some site like that.
No. I'm not disingenuous. The group really does want a well-rounded group of people in order to have discussions from different points of view. There are a few people in this thread who are charactures of their side of the political aisle -- at least that's how they act here.
Even here, while some people are just mean and trying to start arguments, others (left and right) have actually discussed my original question.
(2) He was in fact caught RED HANDED praising the comments which included the most VICIOUS things being said about conseravatives but then seems shocked ...shocked I tell you! that someone would dare to fight back.
I already pointed out that my "praise" at the beginning of this thread was mostly directed towards ScorpioMover -- I believe he leans slightly conservative (correct me if I'm wrong).
Besides, you've been trying to instigate fights from the beginning. Did you ever answer the question posed by someone else: Why Don't You Attend Foreign And Indy Films?
(3) It is a COMMON MEME amongst liberals that conservatives are INCURIOUS people. In fact, they FREQUENTLY cite the lack of CONSERVATIVE interest in foreign/bollywood films as PROOF of this "close-mindedness." The question posed was about as sincere as a republican asking why his PRO LIFE GROUP only gets 1 or 2 democrats for every 20 republicans!
"Indy" means "independent" not "movies from India". Why would you think all movies (or even 'most') made outside of the USA are "liberal"? It's quite obvious you haven't seen many foreign films or you'd know that isn't true.
(4) He's obviously a liberal himself as is evidenced by his refusal to acknowledge what side of the political spectrum he's on but instead PRETENDING to be this neutral dispassionate observer.
Want proof?
Excuse me, Mr. OP...
To the question of political affiliation I answer:
CONSERVATIVE.
What say you?
I haven't refused to answer anything. I was on a mini-vacation this week... excuse me. I am liberal. I see nothing wrong with being liberal or conservative. I don't want same-think in this world, or in my film group. You seem to paint all "liberals" as wack jobs, but don't you hate when people lump all conservatives together?
I'm not neutral, and I'm quite passionate about some things. One of my PASSIONS is to explore the world -- physically through travel -- intellectually through discussions -- and enjoyably through films and music.
Is wanting to explore the world and it's people a "liberal" thing?
James, Port Orchard, Washington, USA, Earth | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/9/2009 7:36:34 PM | i belong to an indie film group and also host monthlies via meetup dot com. you might want to check out meetup first for indie films and then compare demographics by area. my group is in santa cruz county, ca --so already it tends towards liberal. here, i would venture that many of the larger christian churches have way more family outings and events that would preclude the need to join meetups and the like.
my indie film group varies as to the male to female ratio, although it appears that a good number of the total group are single. our primary organizer is a younger woman in her 30's-- so, that also affects the demographics. the last meetup at my house, i was concerned that not enough women were coming, but reminded myself that although mostly single, the group was not a singles group--rather a movie group. there is, however, a lot of crossover between singles, hiking, theater and indie film meetup groups.
other times, the balance has changed in terms of male or female attendance, but not that i can attribute any one variable. i think there is a difference as to where you show the movies. when shown at someone's home, the attendees tend to look over who is coming, in that there is also a social component. i also find that many people prefer home movies because they are cheaper and many single men, in general, like the home milieu in terms of "comfort".
however, we have three indie film theaters in the area and often we meet, see the movie, talk about it and optionally go out to eat afterwards. often, much younger people seem to show up: male, female, gay and straight. i've brought my more conservative friends to see the movies with "no problem". i think being a university town, also attracts liberals in this particular area and many attend these events with an intellectual bent. that would be different in another area.
i also wonder about the distribution of indie movie theaters overall. there are more here per population than in san jose, over the hill. why? because our baseline demographics are different. perhaps indie films are correlated with the liberal,more "artsy" crowd. but again, our group has it's share of men and several married couples. also, when i took my kids, they liked the films, but not necessarily the intellectual talks after. my eldest (age 22) does like the social component, because she gets a lot of attention with her baby, when we are not talking about the film. so, to her, it feels a lot like "family". last time, several helped her with her college assignment--kind of her private built in focus group! again, the home based groups are different than the more formal ones.
ps if you want a more conservative viewpoint, just invite your conservative friends. we do that here all the time, i.e. bring each other into our "worlds". but then again, we have similar goals, just different views about how to get there, as my friends range from devout christians to atheists-- with all the religions in a stream in between. that's what makes it interesting. nobody puts the other down. everyone tries to "understand" the others' point of view.
so maybe it's about "flexiblity" and not about political leanings. there are those who talk and those who walk. often the "walkers" have a lot more patience with each other as they are dealing with implementing reality to make the world a better place or even to just understand human nature--the good and the bad. | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/10/2009 5:57:47 AM |
Cyke said
I believe too that the bigger cities tend to be populated with a lot more liberals than conservatives generally and the reverse is true about smaller cities and towns as well as the country.
This is true in the USA as well. While I'm not in a big city, I can see one from here, so that may have something to do with the demographics of the film group... however THIS town is very small and blue collar, so I don't know if being near Seattle matters.
I suppose a similar question to the one of this thread is why are Urban areas more liberal than Rural ones... I suspect the answer to THAT is in urban areas people more diverse and need to be more accepting of others to get along.
cyke: I was going to email you but you've banned men from contacting you... send an email my way if you have the time.
James, Port Orchard, Washington, USA, Earth | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/10/2009 8:29:06 AM | As a generalization, conservatives do not like art because art often questions tradition and conventional wisdom.
Conservatives watch FauxNews because it confirms their bigotries. They don't like other news sources that report facts that undermine their beliefs. They don't like artists whose works question their beliefs. When it comes to movies, books, and other works of art that questions their beliefs, conservatives first reaction is to ban the art. There are many examples of conservatives trying to get works of art banned. You never hear liberals argue that a work of art should be banned | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/10/2009 10:28:20 AM | There are many examples of conservatives trying to get works of art banned. You never hear liberals argue that a work of art should be banned.
Actually, liberals nationwide (U.S.) have tried to (and often succeeded) in getting BOOKS banned... Huckleberry Finn comes to mind, but there are many.
It's always bad to use words such as "never"... ;-)
It's too bad you had to wrap an interesting statement in layers of over-the-top, charactature of 'the right". Instead of reading your post as a thoughtful statement and observation, even I finished it thinking you're just some radical leftist hippy (and I'm liberal myself). I'm not sure why you felt the need to add inflammatory language that even those potentially on 'your side' wince at.
You said:
As a generalization, conservatives do not like art because art often questions tradition and conventional wisdom.
I do think there is a nugget of truth to this. I think by some definitions "conservatives" prefer "traditional" values and "conventional" wisdom, and it is true that some art (and film) challenges that with a different point of view.
Of course, preferring these things does NOT automatically make one wrong anymore than hating them making a person correct.
James, Port Orchard, Washington, USA, Earth | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/10/2009 11:15:05 AM |
For instance, we saw "W" the film about Bush... We all thought it would be 90 minutes of making fun of the man, but we thought it was actually very fair and showed him in an interesting light -- even so, out of the 14 of us who watched this movie, NONE of us really liked Bush... it would have been great to get the perspective of someone who supported him; we even talked about THAT in our discussion.
Well, that's your problem right there: you're screening movies like "W". Do you really think right-wingers are going to pay to see a movie like that? I wouldn't, and I'm a left-wing Canadian who despises Bush. I'd figure that at best that movie wouldn't tell me anything I don't already know, and more likely it would be an ugly, partisan, diatribe. Put it another way: if Ann Coulter made a movie, would you pay to see it (remembering that Ann Coulter's getting a cut of every ticket)?
The thing is, you've got a group of very left-wing female 45-year-olds who are picking movies that very left-wing female 45-year-olds want to see. You can't really change that without cutting into your existing base, and people outside that base are not, in general, going to want to see those particular foreign and indie movies. (I doubt that you're showing a lot of war movies, for example, or a lot of anime.) | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:05:58 PM | ^^I've read books and watched plenty of movies that skewer liberals, including liberal politicians like Clinton and LBJ. And there's a big difference between Will Ferrell and Ann Coulter (one pretends to be a comedian, the other pretends to be serious).
seattlerain
I think you interpret my words far too literally. IMO, while technically correct, you only emphasize the point I'm making when you have to go back to the days of slavery to find an exception just to win a minor technical point on rhetoric.
So call me whatever names float your boat. So long as theyre accompanied by further evidence that it's the right who threatens our constitutional freedom of expression, you may call me whatever your heart desires. | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/10/2009 2:17:12 PM |
Well, that's your problem right there: you're screening movies like "W". Do you really think right-wingers are going to pay to see a movie like that? I wouldn't, and I'm a left-wing Canadian who despises Bush. I'd figure that at best that movie wouldn't tell me anything I don't already know, and more likely it would be an ugly, partisan, diatribe. Put it another way: if Ann Coulter made a movie, would you pay to see it (remembering that Ann Coulter's getting a cut of every ticket)?
Well, there is YOUR problem Istovir... you don't watch films that may question your beliefs.
"W" was NOT an "ugly, partisan diatribe" about George Bush. I think a right winger could have gotten as much out of that particular film as we did as a group. It would have been nice to have a few conservatively-minded folks in our discussion.
I've been saying that we *WANT* both sides in our film discussions. It's a very few, obnoxious wingers (on BOTH sides) who keep taking this thread down the mean, nasty, prejudice path that they see the world in. There are many (most in fact) people who are NOT wingers, left or right, and can actually sit down and have discussions.
My film group isn't full of left-wingers; most are simply liberal, and we do have a few on the other side of the fence, but not enough in my opinion.
I'm simply interested WHY conservatives (in general) don't watch these movies... I would guess 95% of them have no political agenda whatsoever. They are movies about love, adventure, and many are quite evocative -- which spawns GREAT discussions.
James, Seattle, Washington, USA, Earth
Some of our recent films:
THE FALL (in ENGLISH) and quite possibly one of the most cinematographic beautiful movies ever made. (adventure story / non-political)
EASY VIRTUE (In English) A 1920's flapper girl-type American female Race Car driver marries into a stuffy, rich English Manor-type family. (comedy / non-political)
THE BROTHER'S BLOOM (In English) about two brothers raised in foster homes and grow up to become fabulous con men out to con a Billionaire Heiress. (comedy / drama / romance.. it can't be categorized as one. / Non political) | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/10/2009 11:10:32 PM |
I'm simply interested WHY conservatives (in general) don't watch these movies... I would guess 95% of them have no political agenda whatsoever. They are movies about love, adventure, and many are quite evocative -- which spawns GREAT discussions.
Personally, I missed the political slant on this all together (having largely ignored all the arguing and vitriol), so I suppose it doesn't surprise that my reasons were glossed over (being neither political in nature or likely to become so).
Frankly, your pool of input is far too small to support your conclusion. I'm sure the local arts society could give you more objective datum if you're question is more than casual and if you're interested in more than anecdotal input. | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/10/2009 11:38:42 PM | Maybe a part of it has to do with the percentages of liberal and conservative people in your area.
I used to live in Toronto and knew plenty of people who couldn't be considered conservative by any stretch of the imagination, who simply had no interest in going to Indie/Foreign films.
But then Canada and the US might have differences I am not aware of. Guelph is predominantly a Christian/Conservative area. We got tons of churches! And we have multicultural events and a festival too.
I don't know really. I don't think my input can contribute much.  | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/11/2009 5:56:33 PM | Conservatives are often not interested in material that makes the people they want to bomb look like actual human beings.
Or maybe it's the subtitles... It's a rare conservative that likes to read...
Who called Ann Coulter hot? She's a HE. She's got an Adam's Apple! | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/11/2009 7:22:23 PM |
Actually, liberals nationwide (U.S.) have tried to (and often succeeded) in getting BOOKS banned... Huckleberry Finn comes to mind, but there are many.
I call bullshit. The American Library Association says "The Coalition to stop the N-Word,” made up of the National Black United Front, the New Black Panther Party, the Nation of Islam, the Black Coalition to Maximize Education, and the NAACP, has protested on behalf of the family and are calling for the book to be pulled from the curriculum." hardly qualifies as "liberals nationwide". And that protest was pretty obvious.
And for every book that "liberals" object to - usually on a common sense basis - there are probably 100 books conservatives object to for all manner of spurious reasons. Lots of conservative groups in America and abroad throughout history have had book burnings, name even one that some liberal group has had.
Once again, BULLSHIT.
And for the record, "conventional wisdom" is actually used as a pejorative.
The term is often credited to the economist John Kenneth Galbraith, who used it in his 1958 book The Affluent Society:
It will be convenient to have a name for the ideas which are esteemed at any time for their acceptability, and it should be a term that emphasizes this predictability. I shall refer to these ideas henceforth as the conventional wisdom.
He meant that only the weak and close minded don't question things and accept things as they are. And that my friend is conservatism in a nutshell. | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/11/2009 9:34:34 PM | Why don't you all take your Liberal/Conservative tirades to the Politics forum where they belong? Unless of course you're 'special' and don't feel that staying on topic pertains to you... then by all means, continue.
(Yes, there's a politics forum on pof... It's just not visible on the list of forums.) Try:
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingForum98.aspx
Thanks. | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/11/2009 9:41:34 PM | James, if I had to hazard a guess in answer to your initial question (which, obviously, I will have to do!), I'd say it's highly likely that more "conservatives" do see indie/foreign films, but they just don't identify unless they're moderate or higher on the spectrum.
Let's face it, the eagerness with which most who are politically active leap to engage (as this thread clearly demonstrates) isn't exactly enticing to anyone except those who delight in the "battle" and I would think that, of all the places one might want to have it flare, enjoying a movie club likely is low on the list (if present whatever). | |
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jbogie
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Joined: 9/30/2008
Msg: 67 | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/13/2009 6:45:53 PM | "We asked at the theater and they agreed that our stats are probably similar as what they see in the door."
Whom did you ask at the theatre?
What do they see in the door? I see nothing in the door. Indoors? Tandoori chicken? You are making very informal sense.
Why were you taken aback? Because someone, or a building, or a door agreed with you? Is that a very rare occurrance?
Republicans and Christians consider it un-American to watch foreign films, and they are convinced that independent films lead to independent thought, the bain of all religious dogma everywhere. In a way, we don't want Hollywood to go GM's way. I'd strongly advise for your group to watch domestic films, as our actors need to eat, too.
Your local Indi theatre must love all 45 of you. You fill more seats each time you go than in my town an Indi theatre can attract customers in an entire month.
Average age 45: it could be a misleading statistic, as all by itself it says no more than the average. It says nothing of the distribution's shape or standard deviation. For instance, 22 people could be 1 years old, and 22, 89, plus a forty-five-year-old by osmosis. It would still work out to be average 45. Or maybe there are 22 91-year-olds with embrios and one 45-year-old . That's also average age of 45 (Minus nine months olds, numbering 23 of them.) Of course also everyone could be 45, and of course everyone could be between 40 and 50, with a flat distribution.
I know I fixated here on the number 45, while your group counts up to 75 members. I have my weak points, too, and 75 is it. 45 is three-quarters of an hour, and 75 is three-quarters of a hundred.
I curse the clock makers of all times at all times. | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/14/2009 3:29:43 PM | I tend to side with J in SD, James. I have seen enough Czech films with Hungarian subtitles in the sixties to know what the true truth is.
Of course the best foreign films are made in Hollywood (like BadLands, Ninotschka, WWII, Knyaz Potyemkin, If, Hamlet (I like the 1733 production by David Hume the best) and The Great Liebowitz) and the best indie films are made in Chinese sweatshops with better quality control than the USA could ever dream of, including the measured addition of led to toothpaste at the whimsy of the plant manager.
I am fully aware of what little sense I make here. You gotta read the subtext, man. The subtext should read, in big, red, blinking letters, "H E L P !!!!" | |
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| Strange liberal demographic of my film group... WHY?
Posted: 7/15/2009 6:47:33 AM | If I may give my definition and throw it on the pile here, on what constitutes a foreign film: One that is very far removed from my mindset, what I would never imagine reality to be, something with values that are foreign to me.
In this sense all American movies are either foreign or not foreign to me. Whether they be made in Hollywood, in China, in Madagaskar or in Nascar.
I like foreign movies. | |
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