| should I take action?
Posted: 7/4/2009 3:44:59 PM | I'd definately have to bring up the supervision issue with someone at the school and let them know I wanted something done about it in the future.
I'm sure all of us parents have kept an eye on our kids when they're young and we take them to the park. They do need to learn and to adventure a bit and even to have accidents, but they also need to be taught at this young age, of dangers beyond a grazed knee!
I suppose its a bit like crossing the road. I'm sure none of us would have allowed our 4 year olds to do that without any supervision.
When we put them into the care of nurseries, we expect them to receive the required level of supervision and its this part of your story that worries me OP. | |
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Posted: 7/4/2009 3:59:46 PM | 'As I said you don't have kids and obviouly no clue about health and safety of your children! God forbid if you do and anything like this happened to one of yours! But then again it sounds to me that you would be quite non-plussed if it did..after all you don't want to wrap your kids up in cotton wool..but maybe a wheelchair would be more satisfying!'
It seriously makes me laugh that you think a person has to have children to care.
Of course if I had a child I would worry, it's a parent's job. But I would NOT let my worry impact the child's freedom to explore and learn, sometimes through accident.
I have no kids, but I WAS one. I was one who spent a reasonable portion of every summer holiday in A&E. Why? because I was adventurous but not stifled by my parents. My parents did their reasonable best to make sure I was safe and always knew where I was, but I had a certain amount of freedom.
Please do not assume I don't know how to do a RAMS (Risk Assessment and Method Statement) I write the blody things and sign off those presented to me. In high risk operations I think they are justified as they focus everyone's mind. But having to write them for cleaning operations? ridiculous.
All I am saying is that an informal chat would be my way of dealing with it. Mistakes happen and no matter what, I would not be looking to benefit from it, OR hang someone out to dry for it.
I am quite sure the nursery are terrified, and that very fear probably means they might be less than open with you.
I STRONGLY beleive we are raising a generation of nancys.
I can't argue with you. Too cute.
VVVVV | |
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| should I take action?
Posted: 7/4/2009 4:08:56 PM |
I have no kids, but I WAS one. I was one who spent a reasonable portion of every summer holiday in A&E.
And I'm sure your parents were worried sick every time
When my daughter was 8 she was at a friends house and they were playing out the back, they were climbing over the fences which were round topped and had to use the large metal pegs sticking out to get a foothold. The metal pegs were used to put clothes poles on when not in use years ago but they are no longer used for that. Anyway, my daughter slipped, and ended up impaled on the peg, which went so far into her thigh that the doctor in A&E could put his hand into the wound. She needed surgery and now has a large scar on her leg.
I contacted those responsible for the upkeep of the back garden areas and asked them to remove the pegs which they did within a day, out of every single back garden in this area.
Killjoy maybe? The kids have been climbing about for years but the next kid who falls might not be so lucky.
I'm not dismissing your views, as children my sister and I were out and about all day, had loads of freedom to fall out of trees etc but in the OP's case we are talking about 3 and 4 year olds. I doubt very much you had that much freedom at that age. | |
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| should I take action?
Posted: 7/4/2009 4:13:25 PM | | Don't take this any further. If you aren't prepared to take 100% responsibilty of your child because of whatever reasons, then don't ever feel that you are in anyway obliged to blame somebody else for your short comings. Accidents will happen, just be grateful all is well, and stop trying to put a price on your child because there isn't one high enough . | |
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Posted: 7/4/2009 11:11:06 PM | [Always the resort of someone with children is to assume they hold a special position.]
That's because they do hold a special position.......it's call Mum or Dad.
You are preaching on how to be a parent without a single hours experience. Parenting isn’t something you learn from a book – is a long journey of life experience, which teaches you as you do the job.
Some of the comments on this forum have made my blood boil.
Of course children need to learn from experience, but when staff are being paid to supervisor children that is exactly what they should be doing. | |
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Posted: 7/4/2009 11:50:01 PM | | I have worked as a volunteer in schools and the children were never left unsupervised inside or out. In one school nursery and foundation were in adjoining classrooms, if some of the nursery staff went through to foundation for some reason someone had to stay in nursery. I'm sure that even in my children's junior school they're supervised at playtime. I think that they're breaking the law otherwise. | |
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Posted: 7/5/2009 1:56:45 AM | It seriously makes me laugh that you think a person has to have children to care.
there's a hell of a difference between caring for children n actually having your own..
i used to have them same attitude...think you know it all..
many years ago i remember a conversation i had with a friend at a graveside ,two of us sitting there discussing events,how i would do this n that,making my side of the discussion very convincing,all my friend said was"you haven't a clue what your talking about,you haven't got any kids" at the time it made me angry coz i cared...
6 years ago i had a son,i went back to that friend n we recalled the above conversation..
i said that he was right n i was full of shite n that i now realise what he meant
having your own changes you,certainly makes a big impact...
"I am quite sure the nursery are terrified, and that very fear probably means they might be less than open with you. "
i should fcuking think so....the same as you if something happened on your site!
" Mistakes happen and no matter what, I would not be looking to benefit from it, OR hang someone out to dry for it"
sounds to me as if the only person you care about is yourself.... | |
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Posted: 7/5/2009 2:22:11 AM | " Mistakes happen and no matter what, I would not be looking to benefit from it, OR hang someone out to dry for it"
sounds to me as if the only person you care about is yourself....
I wonder how you arrive at this conclusion when in fact, my whole point here is that I do not beleive in vengeance, I beleive an open and honest environment where imrpovements can be made through experience can only ever be achieved if there is a climate of openness without the fear of persecution. It's how we operate at work.
A for instance would be back when i was a construction manager a man turn over a 29ton machine. Rather than be thrown off site for dangerous practices (it was his fault, he had been properly trained and it was him taking a shortcut) he was invited into the office for a debrief where the focus was on what he thought he could do to avoid a reoccurence. At first he had the attitude that 'mistakes happen' but after a while when he realised no one was 'out to get him' he oened up a little and walked out of the door quite happy and quite focused on never looking such a twonk again.
Oh, regarding the 'special position' It's special all right. It's thought that hormones kick in to make you protective......a side effect of which is to make you less rational. | |
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| should I take action? - no-one was actually monitoring the outside play area
Posted: 7/5/2009 3:03:55 AM | Judging by the way this thread has gone you may have been better off asking for an overall consensus as to whether or not you should act, rather than leaving it open to debate where it can get really messy.
You know like a straight forward Yes I would act No I would not act.
That's what it sounds like you were really attempting to do..? perhaps. | |
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| should I take action? - no-one was actually monitoring the outside play area
Posted: 7/5/2009 3:33:30 AM | well yes overall I wasn't sure how I go about taking action,or if I should, other than going straight to the head of the nursery school and doing it that way?
I just don't want this sort of thing happening again and for them to realise that no matter how understaffed they maybe they cannot leave kids unsupervised!Nothing to do with financial gain..that does'nt even enter my head..and no I would not put a price on my child's head! Or out for vengeance..I just would not like the thought of my young child or anyone else's for that matter having a really bad accident because of inadequate supervision. I mean basically they couldn't tell me what time the accident happened because none of the staff were there to witness it! If another young child hadn't gone to get a member of staff in the classroom they may not have known it had happened at all or for a while afterwards!
I'm not saying my son should not be climbing about and being a child but just basically to have an adult there when he does.
TJslater...and as for the man turning over a 29ton peice of equipment..I rest my case he is a man!..my son is a four year old child..I am his mother..and I just expect him to go to nursery and be adequately supervised(and every other parent wants the same for their children too!)
He's not really at the age for being responsible for his some of his own actions yet..he is still at that learning stage! Did you not read about that young child who drowned at a nursery school because of no supervision! Lessons should have already been learnt by that and other cases! I just hope my sons nursery have learnt their's! I'm going to speak to them about it and see if they are sorting out their monitoring system.
^Galoen..The thread has been quite eye opening in matters of opinions and discussions though! | |
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Posted: 7/5/2009 4:44:53 AM | kids and climbing frames are always a risk...depends on the mental fragility of the parents as to how the risk is either managed or negated.
In the case of a nursery, you really have to ask, what level of risk is acceptable, if they want to negate the risk completely, then they will have to remove the climbing frames completely.
If they want to manage the risk, it really doesnt matter how many supervisers they put in place, the climbing frames and children still exist in the same area.
Then of course, the parents knew there was a climbing frame in the nursery when they put their child there, so is the nursery responsible?
Considering the parents could also have chosen to put their children in a nursery without a climbing frame.
Depends on how you look at it, i suppose.....parents never hand over total responsibility for their children, whoever they leave them with.
The parents are still responsible for the care and well being of their children | |
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Posted: 7/5/2009 5:21:44 AM | This just seems to be going round in circles!
I don't mind the fact that there's a climbing frame..I don't mind the fact that my son wanted to go on the climbing frame..but I do mind the fact that he and other children are'nt being supervised whilst doing so.
'Depends on how you look at it, i suppose.....parents never hand over total responsibility for their children, whoever they leave them with.'
At the age of four every child is expected to be attending a pre-school nursery to prepare them for school. However once your child is at that nursery school and you leave them in the nursery school's care then it is the teacher's responsibility to ensure that the children are monitored and supervised. Other wise it would be the case of every child's parent standing and watching over the fence just to make sure they are!
Well iv'e made the decision now that tomorrow I am going to talk to the head of the nursery about thier suprvisory standards!
It's funny now that they are all being rather overly smiley and nice to me and my son..even the miserable one's!
I think they know that they made a blunder!
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HenXX
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Joined: 6/16/2009
Msg: 64 | |
| should I take action?
Posted: 7/5/2009 5:56:44 AM | | To the guys who THINK they were climbing etc at this early age without supervision...... I very much doubt it.It has been an unwritten rule with mums for as long as i can remember,that kids under 5 were always watched over,especially with climbing frames,trees etc.As they get older and learn these things in a supervised environment,yes,mums will allow them the freedom. | |
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Posted: 7/5/2009 6:19:08 AM | I wouldn't worry about it anymore. The OP knows what she means and so do most other responsible parents on here.
Those that think kids should be running around unsupervised are probably the same who would (or do) just send their kids to the playground to get them from under their feet with nobody to watch over them.
Their's are the kids we've all encountered at the playground when there with our own children - the ones who go around bullying and pushing other kids off the equipment, who start fights, who vandalise the environment and who, when they fall off a climbing frame and sit there in the dust, hurt, snotty and snivelling looking around pathetically for help, people like us rush over to help out in the absence of their own parents.
Sadly they are also the most likely to be picked up by some non to pleasant people at the playground also. | |
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HenXX
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Joined: 6/16/2009
Msg: 66 | |
| should I take action?
Posted: 7/5/2009 7:08:18 AM | | you are right firecracka.......I should have said "most" have the unwritten rule. | |
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| should I take action?
Posted: 7/5/2009 12:02:30 PM |
I wonder how you arrive at this conclusion when in fact, my whole point here is that I do not beleive in vengeance, I beleive an open and honest environment where imrpovements can be made through experience can only ever be achieved if there is a climate of openness without the fear of persecution. It's how we operate at work.
A for instance would be back when i was a construction manager a man turn over a 29ton machine. Rather than be thrown off site for dangerous practices (it was his fault, he had been properly trained and it was him taking a shortcut) he was invited into the office for a debrief where the focus was on what he thought he could do to avoid a reoccurence. At first he had the attitude that 'mistakes happen' but after a while when he realised no one was 'out to get him' he oened up a little and walked out of the door quite happy and quite focused on never looking such a twonk again.
Ahh but the thread isn't about the work environment is it? Nor is it about some hairy bollocked idiot thinking he was cleverer than H&S and then twatting himself and 29 tons of metal is it? in fact it's not about adults having accidents at all!!!
We're discussing an incident whereby a 3 year old child, who obviously does not have any idea of the dangers of climbing to the top of a 6 foot climbing frame, being left alone to do exactly that...
No we cannot negate every risk taken by our children, no we should not wrap them in cotton wool... But neither should we allow them to play on the motorway so that they learn the dangers of traffic... It's all about risk management and sensible exposure..
The nursery should have ensured there was someone supervising the children in the play area...
End of... | |
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| should I take action?
Posted: 7/5/2009 12:22:48 PM |
Ahh but the thread isn't about the work environment is it? Nor is it about some hairy bollocked idiot thinking he was cleverer than H&S and then twatting himself and 29 tons of metal is it? in fact it's not about adults having accidents at all!!!
I disagree. The thread is directly related to the work environment of the teachers/carers. Which is what the analogy was directed toward.
Look, I have nothing against going into the school and asking to find out what they are doing to properly supervise kids.
What I am against is the idea of 'Taking Action' which to me is a different (formal) process which in my opinion benefits no one. I HAD to make a report to the HSE about the incident on site as it is a legal requirement. Had it been left to my own discretion I would not have.
I dislike the culture of blame. I dislike it a lot for SO many reasons, mostly:
(1) it promotes a climate where people take less and less responsibility while looking for 'fault'
(2) the more any institution has to comply with beurocratic requirements and fund expensive PI, the less time they are devoting to their core business.
(3) They are less likely to do anything considered 'risky' if they are worried about prosecution or even discipline. And what they consider risky will gradually encompass almost every situation. To the point where it is the individuals (children in this case) who will suffer from a FAR less rich environment.
In crass and simple terms, to me, while regrettable, it is worth the occasional death, be it infant or adult to allow for a wider range of experience in life. I would rather that than try to protect against everything.
If I had a child of my own which died, of course, I;d be devastated, but my convictions would not change one iota!
people do things thinking it's for their loved ones when in reality it is NOT. An example........if my ex partner were murdered and I knew who the killer was, I'd want to take their life. I wouldn't. Why? because I would be doing it for me, not her. SHE wouldn't want me to do it, and I could pretend as much as I liked that I was 'giving her justice' but it would not be the truth, I'd be addressing my own grief, in the same way when parents kick off about things like this, they are in fact addressing their own fears, NOT necessarily the REAL best interests of their chilrdren. | |
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Posted: 7/5/2009 4:23:14 PM |
In crass and simple terms, to me, while regrettable, it is worth the occasional death, be it infant or adult to allow for a wider range of experience in life. I would rather that than try to protect against everything.
If I had a child of my own which died, of course, I;d be devastated, but my convictions would not change one iota!
did you actually read that back before you posted it? worth the occasional death? | |
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Posted: 7/5/2009 4:26:52 PM | I was going to reply to that previous quote and all the other crap that he wrote..but to tell the truth its just gone completely over my head!
Utter rubbish and nonsence!
It make me laugh TJ that you work in safety!
and I really do hope you have thought about never having kids yourself! | |
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Posted: 7/5/2009 4:27:21 PM | msg 68
fcuking hell,the mind boggles with statements like that | |
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Posted: 7/6/2009 7:11:15 AM | Did you talk to the nursery head teacher today namethatchoon?
Just wondering how you got on and hope the wee guy is none the worse for his fall now | |
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Posted: 7/6/2009 7:20:28 AM | I hope your sons feeling better.
I would personally ask about the lack of supervision, at my childrens nursery there was always more than one person supervising so there was always someone there if anything happened.
But at primary school this was a bit lapse and my son actually climbed a fence and came home twice! neither time did they even realise that he was missing.
I have to say that i don't agree with the blame/claim culture that we now live in though, my son broke his arm when he was at school and so many parents were on my back to sue them, but accidents happen.
Lack of supervision is worrying though, they can't prevent accidents but it's good to know that someone is there if needed. | |
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Posted: 7/6/2009 7:20:53 AM | Hiya Nats..you must be psycic or something I was just about to put on here about how I got on!
Yeh I had a talk with the head and she assured me that it was at the changeover stage after lunch that it happened and there was one member of staff in the playground at the time but she had momentry gone to sort another child out who had cut his lip!
She showed me the log book and copies of the form she had sent off to varify that she had logged the accident and also that they had had a staff meeting to ensure that supervision was properly in place in the future.
They were all pretty distressed about what had happened and it has got there arrses in gear to assure that it does'nt happen again!
Infact when I dropped my boy off there was a member of staff right under the climbing frame!
I am quite happy with this with the knowledge that they will keep to adequate staffing.
Thanks to everyone for your input..It helped me decide that speaking to them was the best option! My son is fine by the way and back to his normal playful self! .x | |
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i'd treat that with the contempt it deserves
