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HenXX
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Joined: 6/16/2009
Msg: 101 | |
| should I take action?
Posted: 7/6/2009 5:40:06 PM | Awwwww Joe,you are every womans sweetheart on here
We are not stopping them from developing these skills by supervising them,are we?????? I would see the point if we had them on safety harnesses etc but we are not! Foreseeing if a kid is going to fall is something you often know when you have been around them a lot........body language. | |
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Posted: 7/6/2009 5:44:18 PM | I think the girl who started the thread had every right to be upset at her young child ending up in hospital through lack of appropriate supervision. I'm sure she doesn't mind her kids playing, just doesn't want them to end up in hospital.
Kid at my mums school was warned and told not to swing on some bars, fell off, hit the concrete, broke his arm, badly, parents were more worried about not getting on their summer holiday and tried to sue the school, however, the child was specifically told not to do what he did.
Kids will be kids yes, but when someone ends up cracking their head open or having a bad break that might cause them problems for life, better being on the safe side.
I don't have kids but if that were mine, I'd have kicked up every fuss going, if they had been at fault. If the wee one had been seriously injured Im sure her thoughts wouldn't have been dismissed, because he was ok, then she's the one making the fuss. | |
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Joe1uk
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Joined: 6/10/2009
Msg: 103 | |
| should I take action?
Posted: 7/6/2009 7:15:07 PM | Awwwww Joe,you are every womans sweetheart on here
We are not stopping them from developing these skills by supervising them,are we?????? I would see the point if we had them on safety harnesses etc but we are not! Foreseeing if a kid is going to fall is something you often know when you have been around them a lot........body language.
ye I know and its not as good being every woman's sweet heart as most blokes on here think it would be 
No you aren't stopping them, I'm not against supervising them,they should be cos kids play pushy pushy and misbehave. harnesses would be going to far yes.
Foreseeing it depends on the supervisor looking that way at that child and then having time to say no or catching them, which is unlikely in this situation.Possible yes but unlikely. I could foresee that little girl going face first into that wall but didn't have time to react, and I've not got kids and I'm not around them much. I've no need to be. Luckily she didn't though by the skin of her teeth. Her parents should have know better than to actually stand and help her do it. I get told I wouldn't know I haven't got children but I despair at the stupidity of some of those that have got children sometimes.
Pauline, it was through lack of supervision, that's an assumption. The accident could have happened any way. If a child is climbing up on bars they can just slip.
I'm intrigued now as to whether this climbing frame is suitable or should even be there. | |
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Posted: 7/7/2009 1:02:32 AM | ah the voice of experience.....
simple,if there was supervision,your right they wouldn't have time to catch them...
you'd need to be quick,don't think anybody would have that fast a reaction time.....
the supervision would have stopped the 3/4 year olds going anywhere near the fcuking 6 foot climbing frame......... | |
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Posted: 7/7/2009 1:48:24 AM | There should have been adequuate supervision. Regardless there will still be accidents, however, A six foot climbing frame wouldn't be suitable equipment for a Pre school age play ground, because quite simply the nursery are responsible for the safety of the children.
My Grandchildren have a high climbing structure in their garden, been there since little ones were 2 and 5, but that is our responsibility. The park at the end of my road has a 10 ft high structure, the four year old climbed up to the top like a good un for the first time last week, such a confident little one, but I was terrified for her and I was half way up there myself, just in case. Its a fine art instilling that confidence and letting them do what they want, whike watching like a hawk. Thats my girl. | |
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Posted: 7/7/2009 6:35:50 AM |
My guess is all the OP wants is to stop this kind of unsupervised accident happening in the future where things could be a lot worse next time.
This accident may possibly have occured even with supervision, there is no gaurentee that supervised play will be safer, accidents happen. I suppose what you have to ask yourself was the accident caused by lack of supervision or was it just another child having an accident.
Look at the recent massive increase in home trampolines, ask any Nurse/Doctor in any A&E department and they will tell you that the trampolines have led to a huge rise in children being addmited into hospital with sprains, broken feet leg etc. When it happens do the parents throw out the trampoline for being potentially lethal, no of course they dont.
The bumps,cuts, scrapes, twists, sprains, broken legs, arms, feet are all perfectly normal dangers facing every child, every day but it only happens to very few. In my opinion its best to let them get on with it, find out where the barriers are, find out what they are and are not capable off. Yes we can warn them and advise 'them dont do that you'll hurt yourself' but they will do it anyway and learn through experience.
By all means raise the issue with the nursery team and suggest they review there staffing policy when it comes to outside play, but dont take away the childs right to explore and find there limits, based on our own worry. | |
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Posted: 7/7/2009 6:58:39 AM |
Pauline, it was through lack of supervision, that's an assumption. The accident could have happened any way. If a child is climbing up on bars they can just slip.
I'm intrigued now as to whether this climbing frame is suitable or should even be there.
The girl who started the thread feels that the injury could have been prevented through more supervision, maybe it couldn't have but the point is, she will never know because her kid wasn't supervised adequately. You could be right though about it being appropriate or not.
There used to be a climbing frame near where my mum still lives. Was in the shape of a dome with the bars all interlinked in diamond shapes. Concrete underneath. We used to climb up up, hook our legs over the bars and hang upside down on it. Never thought twice about it. I also dislocated my shoulder doing judo, was run over and fractured my skull. I was quite accident prone. My brother was exactly the same, he ended up at casualty so many times my mum was worried that they would think he was being maltreated.
Took me to the age of 39 to break a bone though. I think the point is, when kids are out playing, of course there is going to be risk, but when you leave a child in someone's care, you expect reasonable care to be taken, not for them to come home via casualty. | |
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| should I take action? - no-one was actually monitoring the outside play area
Posted: 7/7/2009 7:54:57 AM | ok as a nursery nurse i know this is bad, very very bad and im sure breaks the rules and needs reporting.
There are rules that so many qualified staff have to be present at all times along with so many unqualified (though employed and police checked) staff to whatever number of children. Iv been working with older children for the last 6 years so out of touch on what the ratio should be these days in nursery.
Now someone mentioned this wrapping up in cotton wool sh!t, this is not what this is about, this is about the nursery breaking the law and it should be delt with. The issue is there should be trained staff to watch the children, what if the equipment was in need of repair, what if the child hadnt been found quick enough and left to suffer, maybe even leading to permanant damage or death. By law, every accident needs reporting, having no adult to witness it is breaking that law. Im not exagerating here, a child once died from drowning in a private day nursery because the outside area wasnt being supervised, he fell and tripped in a large puddle caused by some crumpled up tarpaulin, wasnt seen and then it was too late - sounds extreme i know but it happened and was all over the news. In fact my ex had a young sister who was in a play group, one day she wondered off into a toy store she climbed on the slide, she was about 5 years old, dead on arrival to hospital. The rules when caring for children are so tight, they are there for a reason.
Is this a private nursery op? All childcare facilities should be governed by the local education authority (LEA) so find your local one and complain.
I used to run a playgroup many years ago and would have had people given warnings or even fired if this would have happened in my childcare facility. | |
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| should I take action? - no-one was actually monitoring the outside play area
Posted: 7/7/2009 8:44:31 AM | The nursery school is local authority run.
I had a chat with my son's main teacher(nursery nurse) when I was there today because she told me that the head had asked her who had told me that the playground wasn't properly supervised at the time of the accident..and it was her who had told me.
She changed her story and told me that it had been supervised at the time(different to what she told me the day after the accident!)
The head told me that there are usually 2 on duty but perhaps they were coming back from lunch and there was one on duty at the specific(small amount)of time who was seeing to another child who was hurt!) I was told that my son was pushed from the climbing frame by another child(i'm not quite sure how they know this if that member of staff was busy with another child at the time?) I was told that they had various meetings to discuss the incident(but my initial thought is maybe it is so that they get their story straight incase I do take it further??!!) I just think that there are too many staff telling me too many different stories!
As I said previously I don't expect my son to have no scrapes and bruises he is a normal lively child..but just as long as adequate supervision is in place. | |
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| should I take action? - no-one was actually monitoring the outside play area
Posted: 7/7/2009 8:52:13 AM | Having worked in a school for some time a few years back, I know a lot of schools are scared of litigation procedures and will do anything to cover their own backs. I'm not saying you're after that, I know you said you're not, but they need their story 'straight' if it does come to that.
The school I worked at actually resorted to pretty much ringing an ambulance every time a child fell over, even if it was obvious it did not need one. Just to cover their backs.
And although not quite in the same vein, but a dinner lady in the UK is currently suspended because she told parents of a bullied girl what really happened during an incident. She had saved the girl from four boys who had tied her to a fence and were whipping her with a skipping rope. The girl was so traumatised by it she wouldn't/couldn't tell her parents what happened. The school played down the incident, and just told the parents 'a minor incident' occurred and the bullies had been spoken to. If it wasn't for the dinner lady bumping into the mum and commisserating and asking after the girl, the parents would have never found out what had exactly gone on, | |
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Posted: 7/7/2009 9:09:55 AM | At no point has anyone said that children should not play on climbing frames or experience risk in life. Parents understand that when you keep an eye on your children you are able to assess your child’s ability and that you do not need to stand under play equipment waiting to catch them if they fall. You offer verbal advice such as ‘I think you are a bit too high’ or ‘use both hands whilst you are climbing.’ This is not wrapping them in cotton wool, it’s using common sense.
Everyone has been a child and has experienced playing. I climbed trees, rode a bike, swung on ropes etc, etc and the only time I ended up in A&E was a result of the actions of a boy, who failed to assess the danger of his actions to someone else. You don’t have to receive physical damage in order to learn which actions will result in hurt. However I would like to thank those of you that did do things that landed you in hospital because people like me have stood back and said ‘yep that’s a dumb idea, I’m not going to do it.’
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| should I take action?
Posted: 7/7/2009 10:30:04 AM | OP ask to see the accident book. Also question why nursery children are given a 6ft climbing frame, ask to see the manufacturers guidance for the age group this piece of equipment is aimed at.
And to all those who say children should experience falls, broken arms, legs, necks near death experiences blah blah blah think about it. We as parents trust the nursery/school etc to CARE for our children while we are not there. We expect professionals to be responsible for what happens in that establishment. What children do out of that time, climb trees, spin on roundabouts, swim, run, jump and whatever else is down to the parent to supervise. Yes i agree totaly that children need to learn from their mistakes but not life threatening ones, we teach them to cross the road rather than pick them up and carry them over right?
As someone who has experience of running a childcare facility i know that every piece of equipment has to be suitable for the children using it, a 6ft climbing frame would not be acceptable in a nursery, a smaller climbing frame would be. Were there mats or some kind of protective cover under the frame for protection against falls? And as i am trying to point out, if parents wish their 2 year old children to climb 6ft fences, trees or whatever else in their own time then do so, but professional child carers looking after other peoples children should know better. For those who believe this incident was quite acceptable and the child shouldnt be wraped in cotton wool, think of this if it helps - no nursery wants the trauma of seeing a childs life taken before their eyes. It would cost the government in providing counselling for the staff involved who would have to live with it on their conscience, then there are the children who see their little playmates life taken in front of them, think about it. Serious accidents happening due to inadequate staff also gives the staff and establishment a bad reputation, nursery staff loose jobs, probably never to get another job working in that field again, the place gets shut down, parents have to give up work cause there is no one to care for their children. Im sure this sounds heartless but to all those who feel us mums and nursery nurses here are over reacting, just trust me on this, you give your children over to professionals and expect professional care with constant supervision.
it does annoy me to see so many replies to OP's post making out she is over reacting, its her child ffs, please have a heart guys. | |
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| should I take action?
Posted: 7/7/2009 10:39:31 AM |
We as parents trust the nursery/school etc to CARE for our children while we are not there. We expect professionals to be responsible for what happens in that establishment.
But we should also expect that accidents do happen, and that the school/nursery etc is not a place of divine safety, I dont expect to get to school to find my child is hurt or upset but it does happen, but I do accept that the potential for accidents at school are exactly the same if not less so than accidents once the kids are back in my care.
With class sizes hitting 30 there is no feasable way to have every child monitored for every second they are at school, the only way that would be possible is if schools had one teacher for every child.
What I expect from the school is that they will do everything possible to keep them safe but I do not think that it should be taken for granted, who with kids at home can honestly say they never ever ever let their child(ren) out of sight for a single second.Lets cut the schools and nurserys some slack here and realise they are not gaurdian angels. | |
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Posted: 7/9/2009 2:47:48 AM | Dandy, i dont think your reading these posts properly. No one is saying that accidents never happen no matter how cautious staff are, but there should at least be a member of staff on duty to help a child involved in an accident and check equipment to prevent accidents, ensure doors are not left open for children to wonder off unsupervised (as in the case of my ex's young sister who died at the result of careless staff not following health and safety procedures).
At home, letting your child out of your sight is another matter, the parent or career in the home is then responsible. But in a childcare establishment there are staff employed on a ratio to ensure children are supervised all times. If an accident occurs (which of course they do) then the member of staff needs to act quick also give detailed reports for the accident book as one day it might turn up as evidence in court. The child in the home being cared for by its family is a totaly different situation to that of a nursery setting and shouldnt even be compared.
You have no idea what its like to be a nursery nurse these days, one tiny little incident and you can get struck off, its a tough job particularly in todays climate of blame and claim culture. When your caring for someone elses child you watch them all times as well as your own back. Nurseries are not guardian angels as you ignorantly put it Dandy, they are busines establishments and do not want a bad reputation private or state run. | |
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