| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/8/2009 10:13:24 AM |
Absolutely!!!
Then you are a tyrant. I'm glad I don't live under your jurisdiction.
All your (extremely sensible) arguments notwithstanding, you have no right as another human being to prohibit anyone from having anything they can lay legitimate claim to, so long as it doesn't conflict with your right to be left to live your life in peace.
even light machine guns wouldn't fight off a tyrannical government.
That's why your founding fathers (I assume you're American) gave you the RIGHT to keep and bear arms (note that they didn't specify what kind). They knew that only by force of arms would the people stand a chance of keeping their government "honest." | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/8/2009 10:48:53 AM |
That's why your founding fathers (I assume you're American) gave you the RIGHT to keep and bear arms (note that they didn't specify what kind). They knew that only by force of arms would the people stand a chance of keeping their government "honest."
Our founding Fathers gave members of a well organized and trained militia the right to bear arms. That is what countries such as Denmark, Sweden, Israel do. People own machine guns, but have to train on a regular basis and can be called up to serve in time of emergency. More recent Supreme Court rulings in this country have interpreted the second amendment to allow citizens to own weapons, but if you note, that is not absolute. There are still Federal Laws preventing private citizens from owning automatic and other military weapons. And there is no way I believe the founding Fathers could predict what kind of weaponry we would have today. Can you predict what we'll have in 200 years? Would you like your neighbor to have a particle beam weapon that could vaporize you without a trace? what a good idea that would be. | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/8/2009 11:04:53 AM | The constitution was written at the only time in american history when the country had no standing army, the milita was the standing army. so arming the citizens made sense. throw into the mix the need to protect yourself from the native americans who were not happy with all their new neighbors and you got a whole lot of reasons to arm folks that are no longer valid. for the record too Jefferson did not write the constitution, that document was mostly the work of James Madison. Jefferson wrote the declaration.
btw Kennesaw ( I assume the town is in rural Georgia) I doubt has near the issues with gangs, drugs and the violence that goes with them that you see in large cities. living in Indianapolis there are a lot of folks here I would not want to see with a gun. I think in particular of a guy who lived downstairs from me who walked around drunk half the time with a bad attitude and a loaded pistol in his pocket. some folks simply dont need guns. while a person can be killed with a steak knife true enough, it is a whole lot esier to kill with a gun than a knife and you can do it from a safe distance too.  | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/8/2009 11:19:27 AM |
Our founding Fathers gave members of a well organized and trained militia the right to bear arms.
So are you doing your patriotic duty? Do you belong to one? Why not? Do you have so much faith that the crooks & liars in government are doing THEIR DUTY and defending the Constitution? It looks to me like they've passed a bunch of laws to "shred" it instead, which would make them a tyrannical and illegitimate regime not unlike the one the founding fathers wanted you to be armed to defend yourself against. So I'll ask again; are you doing your patriotic DUTY as an American and defending your Constitution against all enemies, both foreign AND DOMESTIC by belonging to a militia with sufficient arms to take on a tyrannical regime? | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/8/2009 11:35:09 AM |
So are you doing your patriotic duty? Do you belong to one? Why not? Do you have so much faith that the crooks & liars in government are doing THEIR DUTY and defending the Constitution?
Dude, you live in Winnipeg
If protecting the US Constitution is so important, why are you living in Canada? | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/8/2009 1:16:00 PM |
So are you doing your patriotic duty? Do you belong to one? Why not? Do you have so much faith that the crooks & liars in government are doing THEIR DUTY and defending the Constitution? It looks to me like they've passed a bunch of laws to "shred" it instead, which would make them a tyrannical and illegitimate regime not unlike the one the founding fathers wanted you to be armed to defend yourself against. So I'll ask again; are you doing your patriotic DUTY as an American and defending your Constitution against all enemies, both foreign AND DOMESTIC by belonging to a militia with sufficient arms to take on a tyrannical regime?
I never said anything about overturning the government of this country. Our Founding Fathers gathered together a militia to fight off mainly the British. Now I can' t remember who, but one of the founding Father said that if a government is corrupt, we have the right, even the duty to overthrow it. The first way you do that is by the pen. Have you done your patriotic duty and voted, contacted your representatives, organized peaceful groups and marches on Washington to protest our policies, put pressure on your elected officials to do the right thing? There are other and better ways of changing things than at the barrel of a gun. In fact, violence is usually not the best way.
I don't think it's generally anyone's patriotic duty to join the armed forces (not militia note, armed forces which didn't even exist during the time of our Founding Fathers), but I think it's everyone's patriotic duty to participate in the process of government. And to me the biggest scandal in politics every 2 years is when barely 50% of the qualified voters show up to at the poles. We get the government we elect.
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent"
-Thomas Jefferson | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/8/2009 1:45:52 PM |
Have you done your patriotic duty and voted, contacted your representatives, organized peaceful groups and marches on Washington to protest our policies, put pressure on your elected officials to do the right thing? There are other and better ways of changing things than at the barrel of a gun. In fact, violence is usually not the best way.
In the first place, I'm not even an American, so the US constitution doesn't apply to me. I was only pointing out your duty as an American citizen to preserve & defend your constitution and that failure to do so will leave you a subject of the tyranny I see in the US today.
As for the rest of the stuff, I've been there, done that, and I agree with you that the barrel of a gun should always be the last alternative. Being a man of peace, I've opted for another way. Whereas the Canadian government has introduced tyrannical laws and follows policies abhorrent to my conscience, I've opted out of the corporation called Canada, so it's statutes no longer apply to me. I have become a sovereign man, no longer subject to a government that no longer represents me and that I no longer vote for. I have withdrawn my consent to allow them to govern me. | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/8/2009 1:52:52 PM |
Whereas the Canadian government has introduced tyrannical laws and follows policies abhorrent to my conscience, I've opted out of the corporation called Canada, so it's statutes no longer apply to me. I have become a sovereign man, no longer subject to a government that no longer represents me and that I no longer vote for. I have withdrawn my consent to allow them to govern me.
Well that' s not very patriotic. | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/8/2009 2:09:59 PM | Well that' s not very patriotic.
One might have said that to a German who announced that he wasn't a subject of Hitler's government, or a Russian who disavowed any allegiance to Stalin. In that sense, I suppose you could say that the founding fathers of the United States weren't very patriotic to turn on their king like that too. At least I didn't start a war over it, I just revoked my consent to let them govern me. From MY point of view, any government that treats its citizens like a resource to be exploited for their own ends is not worthy of allegiance, but I guess that's just me. | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/8/2009 2:49:59 PM | One might have said that to a German who announced that he wasn't a subject of Hitler's government, or a Russian who disavowed any allegiance to Stalin. In that sense, I suppose you could say that the founding fathers of the United States weren't very patriotic to turn on their king like that too. At least I didn't start a war over it, I just revoked my consent to let them govern me. From MY point of view, any government that treats its citizens like a resource to be exploited for their own ends is not worthy of allegiance, but I guess that's just me.
No insult intended, but your whole point was that's when you should overthrow your government, and as I said, even our Founding Father's recognized there is a point where that is necessary by force, yet you chose to take a course of little action. | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/8/2009 3:45:04 PM |
yet you chose to take a course of little action.
I wouldn't exactly call it a course of little action. I'm a member of a small, but growing society that attracts new members daily. What'll happen to the government when everyone they can govern eventually amounts to a minority of the population? What does Canada become then?...a land governed by the people, and for the people. The "old" government will have no claim to legitimacy (it doesn't now!) and like an old soldier should just fade away...or else get its act together, change its ways and start acting like the government of a truly free country so it can invite the disenchanted dissidents back into the fold. Either way, I figure we'll get better government if enough people do what I and some others are doing. | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/9/2009 6:19:35 PM |
But what is a guy to do when he lives in a country full of apathetic sheep. A country where if they raised the taxes to 95% people would say, well I suppose that's getting a little high but, what're you gonna do. At least we still have 5% of our money
I don't disagree, that's why I said I think the biggest political scandal is when less than 50% of the eligible voters show up at the polls. Times are different now than a couple of hundred years ago, which brings us back to the original thread, allowing the public to own any weapons they want. It just isn't practical in today's world. | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/9/2009 6:21:58 PM |
I wouldn't exactly call it a course of little action. I'm a member of a small, but growing society that attracts new members daily. What'll happen to the government when everyone they can govern eventually amounts to a minority of the population? What does Canada become then?
Why not start a larger movement via the web, get more people to follow you, maybe you can accelerate the process? | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/9/2009 6:53:35 PM | Why not start a larger movement via the web, get more people to follow you, maybe you can accelerate the process?
Gee...Why didn't I think of that? 
But let me make it clear, I don't want people to "follow" me. Much better to walk side by side into a better future as equals and allies.
We can ALL be leaders and the masters of our own destinies!
The movement exists and is getting larger all the time as more people turn away from a government that exploits them and join a society wherein the members support each other, conduct commerce with each other, care for each other, etc. as PEOPLE, not as "human resources."
Actually, there are already several such societies, but I expect them to grow into nations in the not too distant future and I expect them to join together (voluntarily of course) in a grand federation that I like to call the Brotherhood of Man. When that happens, the existing governments of the world will either have to join their former constituents under a new set of just laws, or evaporate into extinction as people leave them for a better vision of the future.
For all my ranting, I'm not the first guy to come up with this stuff; the idea isn't new. It would seem that most of the people on this site had no idea this was going on, but I'm happy to bring them word of it. It exists TODAY if they want to opt for it. (Doing so now will require some dedication, courage and adjustment, but being your own master trumps any of the difficulties in my book)
I see a decline in voter participation in the existing governments as a good thing; it means people are tired of the false promises and the change that never seems to occur. Many who no longer vote know they've been had and realize any vote would appear as a vote of support for the status quo. I'll be happiest when the voting turnout drops below 10%, because it will send a clear message to everyone that the people no longer consider that crew to be their government, and that the majority have probably opted for another, more viable alternative. | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/9/2009 8:55:54 PM | | I don't know why you didn't think of it, but based on similar efforts in the U.S.....good luck. All it results in is a few hundred maybe thousand people pulling out of the process thinking the govt. is going to care. | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/9/2009 9:23:58 PM | Most shooting in The USA are by someone you know. That's right it is your friend and Drinking buddy, neighbor, co-worker, cousin Ernie or your wife or husband. You are more likely to be killed by one of them then by some psychopath or criminal.
I highly suspect the statistics from this small Georgia town. One of the prime things burglars look for when they enter a home are guns. Guns command big money on the black market.
I Have nothing against responsible gun ownership. Learn the proper way to handle a gun. Learn how to shot. A gun should always be under your control, not in a drawer or bed stand. When not in use guns should be locked and ammo kept separate under lock and key.
How many kids die because a friend wants to showoff with Dads or Granddads gun? Seems a shame that a great may gun owners have a lower IQ then the caliber of their guns. | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/9/2009 10:05:39 PM | All it results in is a few hundred maybe thousand people pulling out of the process thinking the govt. is going to care.
I think the numbers are higher than that, and growing all the time, but be that as it may, even a hundred or a thousand people pulling out of the process is a hundred or a thousand people freed of their shackles and off the plantation. Is it not at least nice to know that option exists if you want it? Who cares what the government thinks?...certainly not me! | |
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- don
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Joined: 4/23/2009
Msg: 58 | |
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Posted: 7/10/2009 4:16:38 AM | IMO:
I'm inclined to believe our country was created & survived because we have the right to bear arms.
Not all Govt. Officials & Officers of the law are 'Good People' and In my opinion, we need citizens with arms & balls to stick up for what is right.
Why should only criminals be armed? That doesn't settle well with me & I think they would be last to give them up.
Kids learn, if you teach them to respect weapons & how to use them properly, it takes the mystery/thrill out of it, then...it's more like a kitchen knife or a dangerous tool.
-kids are curious by nature & if they aren't allowed to do/see something...thats exactly what they wanna do.
People would keep people in check & look out for each other.
If everyone were bearing arms,
I'm pretty sure people wouldn't go around pulling out their weapons because others would notice & take action.
People with loss of control while drinking/drugging & criminals would be taken out if they pull a weapon on Uncle Ed & neighbor John/Jane happens to notice. (that could potentially be beneficial in terms of natural selection)
&
Kennesaw is not a small hillbilly town, It's like Atlanta without the skyscrapers & has less traffic.
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/10/2009 8:13:33 AM |
I think the numbers are higher than that, and growing all the time, but be that as it may, even a hundred or a thousand people pulling out of the process is a hundred or a thousand people freed of their shackles and off the plantation. Is it not at least nice to know that option exists if you want it? Who cares what the government thinks?...certainly not me!
If you don't even know for sure what the numbers are you have no idea what effect you're having. I don't know how things work in Canada, but as far as the U.S. goes, the only time politicians give a crap is when they perceive their jobs in jeopardy. That's why Arlen Spector changed parties, the Rasmussen poll and Qunnipiac poll showed he'd loose the next election to a Dem. There was a congressman (I forget his name) who recently changed his stance on public health care after a massive phone campaign aimed at him. It takes positive action to effect change. If the people hadn't taken these polls or made all those phone calls, neither of these events would have occurred. Tyrannical governments like when people pull out of the process, that means the ones left participating are the ones more likely to go along with them. | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/10/2009 8:27:44 AM | It takes positive action to effect change.
Agreed. That's what I do, by renouncing and denouncing a corrupted system of government.
Tyrannical governments like when people pull out of the process, that means the ones left participating are the ones more likely to go along with them.
That is the way it should be. Who am I to question the wisdom of free thinking people who enjoy slaving under tyranny? I would never deny them their right to be stupid if that's what they want, just so long as they respect my right to be smarter than that.
The best I can do is try to educate people to let them know what suckers they are being played for and try to show them a way off the plantation, but you know what they say about leading horses to water. I have to respect anyone's right to not be free if that's how they want to live. | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/10/2009 8:32:18 AM | What happened to the Wild West?
Answer - the same thing that has happend over the entire country - conservative white men all over the country have become a bunch of whiney pansies who live in constant fear of criminals in spite of the widely documented drop in violent crime. | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/10/2009 11:37:53 AM | | Guns when safely stored aren't much use against home invasion. Nevermind the ringing you'd get in your ears after ripping off a 30-06 or a 3' 12 guage indoors. Baseball bats are the way to go, they never jam, and don't need to be reloaded. Chances are if some one is breaking into your home to steal stuff they don't have enough money to buy a gun, searching random houses is a desperate act and generally isn't done by some one seeking confrontation or looking to make alot of noise when they plan their crime. | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/10/2009 11:39:35 AM | | Hitler also opposed guns in the hands of citizens. He also killed citizens of his or other countries because of how they happened to be born. He not only killed jews he killed homosexuals, the retarded or mentally ill and any other group who did not fit his aryan ideal. having friends from canada and friends in canada i kinda doubt they are on the same page. btw good luck declaring yourself a soverign man. hope it works out for you. | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/10/2009 11:42:36 AM | | In the United States at this moment the taxes on the wealthy are at historic lows. (39.5) down from a high of 90 during ww II. guess what, all those budget defecits and mismanagement of investments, go right along with low taxes. Im single and have no decuctions but me. i pay a high tax on the local and state level as well. price we pay for services (some of which we dont want or use) and the price we pay for living in civilization which does redistribute wealth not always as we would like it. | |
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| What happened to the Wild West?
Posted: 7/10/2009 3:04:49 PM | Saddam also killed his citizens and people from other countries. He also killed Jews and homosexuals, the mentally retarded and mentally, and any other group that didn't fit his Baathist ideology,
And Saddam opposed gun control. Iraq had no gun control. Up until the day we invaded, anyone could walk into a gun shop in Bagdhad and buy a rifle. It was the US who imposed gun control on Iraq. | |
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