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*Aris*
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Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 126 | |
| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 7/6/2009 2:25:46 PM | umm to meanbeamlover I'm not extreme, I'm not thinking in absolutes and I'm not imaginary so bear with me as I try to make my point less pointless to you. I'm pointing out contrasting views from real women who I've met and I'm treating them on an individual basis, its not necessarily oppositional. My friend is a feminist (not an extremist) and she is very involved in politics like attending pro-choice rallies and such, in addition, she burps, farts, has crude humour and is sex positive (if you called her lady like she would laugh at you as that does not suit her, but if you called her a butch you would offend her). Trust me she has the same vulnerabilities as anyone, I'm talkin romance.
As for other women I've met (granted you have never met them), well ya they had no interest in politics like voting and perhaps coincidentally or not, they were well mannered and lady like (if you had met them, I think you would realise they would agree and like that despcription).
When I'm engaged with a individual, I do not look at them as a reflection of society as a whole thus generalizing, rather I look at their political views as a reflection of personalities, that is what I find more interesting (keep in mind that is not typically the way to deal with politics objectively). If you want to appropriately generalize, write a poem, paint, sing a song, something artistic etc. Another form of dealing with generality is history, unless of course your dealing with historic figures.
p.s. okay moonbeamlover I went from thinking of forms of prejudice in the 18th century to modern day, can you cut me some slack please. | |
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| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 7/6/2009 2:33:48 PM | igent women are great!
Older women... not so much, but that's just me.
So, yeah, I hate to say it, but I'd pass up a seasoned intelligent woman for a younger hotter girl who wasn't as bright.
But don't worry, that doesn't mean we can't be friends.
lol. Yeah, actually it does... "seasoned intelligent women" spend time and energy around people who appreciate who they are (and who they appreciate back), not those who offer friendship as a consolation prize. for who they "think are more than "not so much"
no worries though. The world is full of preferences, and it's all good :)
Whatever floats your boat ;)
Irish:
When I'm engaged with a individual, I do not look at them as a reflection of society as a whole thus generalizing, rather I look at their political views as a reflection of personalities, that is what I find more interesting (keep in mind that is not typically the way to deal with politics objectively). If you want to appropriately generalize, write a poem, paint, sing a song, something artistic etc. Another form of dealing with generality is history, unless of course your dealing with historic figures.
p.s. okay moonbeamlover I went from thinking of forms of prejudice in the 18th century to modern day, can you cut me some slack please.
I am sorry if you took mine as not cutting you slack :) it just seemed the descriptions of the ones called feminists were pretty proactive and aggressive , and those that were not so much feminist were ladylike, but very passive. But I understand you were talking int he context of a few specific women. I was trying ot understand, because it seemed to be slightly generalized into two groups of which most women I know don't fit either of them; but I get what you're saying. No offense taken, and no offense meant. Peace ;) | |
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| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 7/6/2009 2:47:38 PM | Ms.Moonbeamlover...(I like that name ;o)...) when someone hands me an olive branch...I see it and smile....I like olive branches, too.
To be honest....I do not remember the post I'd made...but, ya know....I'll agree that anything in excess is excessive....whatever it may be...
VVV....OOPS!....VVV...blush | |
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| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 7/6/2009 2:54:14 PM | 2irish1,
thanks for agreeing (and for liking the username; moonbeams are awesome, especially on the water). Olive branches are nice peaceful sights aren't they? (especially around these parts sometimes).
My post was in response to the other irish's post above mine; sorry for the confusion.
But you're right, anything in excess is excessive. | |
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| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 7/6/2009 3:02:07 PM | Intelligent? REQUIRED. Older? REQUIRED if we are actually talking "mature". Just throw in Attractive AND cares enough about her future and future partner to be be "reasonably fit" [both of those being relative of course] and we have the "basic requirements" [at least for me] for a woman.
I should probably throw in maybe , that a woman can be intelligent, and still not have "a lick of common sense". I'll pass on those.
As far as "pass you by"? Could be a number of reasons for that. Are we talking in silly typing exchanges or over the phone or face to face? Might just be the way you come across. | |
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| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 7/6/2009 4:12:38 PM | "I believe, too, that women when rejected by men always say they've intimidated the men"
It's an ego protecting rationalization.
No one wants to admit that he/she just didn't meet someone's standards in some way, so instead he/she externalizes the problem as being the other's issue.
The only time I see men bringing up intelligence is when the girl is really dumb. Overall I don't think men put too much of a priority on intelligence beyond maybe slightly above normal. You don't see too often men running up to their buddies "omg the girl i met is so smart!" No one cares as long as she isn't an idiot. How many of us are looking to discuss astrophysics with a woman? That's just not how male/female relationships tend to go.
I wouldn't date a woman I view as smarter than I am. I expect my woman to look up to and respect me, and she couldn't if she viewed me as her inferior. It's just how females work. They marry UP, and I would have to question a woman who is dating men less intelligent than she is as she is going against her nature. Relationships work smoother this way, and she has far less reason to constantly be scanning the horizon for the bigger, better deal if she already has someone better than she is. Men usually have virtually no problem with loving women they view as lower than they are and it has nothing to do with ego or intimidation. I am the dominate one in my relationships because that is how nature designed me to be. The relationships you see falling apart daily are usually because the man has let himself be whipped and the woman no longer respects him, and her love and lust for him vanishes as they go hand in hand.
This "100% equal in all ways in a relationship" idea is a new concept, and if you look around you, it's failing spectatularly. | |
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| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 7/6/2009 8:49:52 PM | I've always been curious to know why some men have such a hard time with women who actually have a positive self-image? I am not such a woman but I am still curious about it. This is interesting to me. Repulsed even! Strong word! Is it because such a woman isn't dating YOU? Or is there something more insidious going on with people who have high self-images?
It quite simply has to do with extreme arrogance, which has nothing to do with gender.
Humility and intelligence have NO correlation.
While they are not mutually inclusive of each other, it can be said that the more knowledge one accumulates, the more one can fathom how little they actually do know, in relation to all that there is to know, which naturally would lead one to be humble.
'm figuring most "intelligent" people are comfortable drawing their own conclusions based on information that has some integrity.
How many people professing their intelligence often use circular reasoning to base their opinions on, and live their lives by, in the forums?
Sigh...someone was answering those online IQ tests again huh?
IQ tests (not sure about the online type, never took one) are mainly an academic benchmark to highlight abstract problem solving and correlate it to speed in a rigid setting. He who thinks fastest wins. It does not measure "depth" of intelligence, or the breadth of adaptive or creative thinking. | |
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| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 7/6/2009 9:05:30 PM | I've always been curious to know why some men have such a hard time with women who actually have a positive self-image? I am not such a woman but I am still curious about it. This is interesting to me. Repulsed even! Strong word! Is it because such a woman isn't dating YOU? Or is there something more insidious going on with people who have high self-images?
You're contradicting yourself...positive self image isn't the same as a high self image. Positive self image - healthy, high self image - egotistical, self-involved. In my experience, anyway.
"Intelligent" is not an absolute, it's highly subjective and has many forms.
Intelligent, knowledgeable, wise and educated are not synonymous. Integrity is a whole other topic, none of those concepts are interchangeable.
Of that list, integrity ranks the highest as far as I'm concerned.
If you want to read up on something I've personally found intriguing it's cognition. You can look up the dictionary definition, but mine is that cognition is not only how individuals perceive something, a word, a concept, idea, theory, it's how they respond/react or how their thought patterns form.
Post 139 brings up another interesting concept...adaptive thinking.
I would post more, but I see the scroll bar and am distracted by something shiny. WOOHOO....I found my keys! 
The threads about intimidation....it's the blank that people's minds need to fill in for themselves. He/she didn't answer my email, show up for a "date" or call...it must be because I'm __________.
Since the OP has left the building, maybe she intimidated herself. Really I think it's amusing at best. | |
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| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 7/6/2009 9:26:28 PM | re msg. 137 -
there's so much lazy thinking here i hardly know where to start to address it.
so let's just stick with the biggie. academic subjects or other bits of big-idea esoterica are the teeniest, tiniest component of what fits under the big tent of 'intelligence.' you're right, i'm not wanting to discuss astrophysics with a woman - or a man, for that matter, since it's not my interest. intelligence is about perception and knowledge, being able to connect dots, storage and synthesis. and that's just the cognitive end. tack on the emotional and other nonlinear aspects of the human experience and you have a field so broad ... well, it can mean as many things to as many people as are out there. one person's mundane blather is a another person's abstract brilliance.
my best relationship was with a PhD healer who was so good at what she did, it bordered on scary. uncanny. because i didn't get it. that's not where my intelligence lies. she had no idea where my music comes from, how i play it, how i create it, how i break it down in order to teach it. that's not where her intelligence lies. if there's only a narrow definition of intelligence, an absolute scale, she and i are both idiots.
as far as the statement that it only matters that a woman is not an idiot - no. i care deeply that a woman's intelligence be above average. won't be interested if it's not. and i hope to god she's not wanting an unequal relationship in which i'm the boss, because then i'm the one who will lack respect, and interest. i won't settle for less-than. | |
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| All spoken...
Posted: 7/6/2009 9:31:19 PM |
The only time I see men bringing up intelligence is when the girl is really dumb. Overall I don't think men put too much of a priority on intelligence beyond maybe slightly above normal. You don't see too often men running up to their buddies "omg the girl i met is so smart!" No one cares as long as she isn't an idiot. How many of us are looking to discuss astrophysics with a woman? That's just not how male/female relationships tend to go.
I wouldn't date a woman I view as smarter than I am. I expect my woman to look up to and respect me, and she couldn't if she viewed me as her inferior. It's just how females work. They marry UP, and I would have to question a woman who is dating men less intelligent than she is as she is going against her nature. Relationships work smoother this way, and she has far less reason to constantly be scanning the horizon for the bigger, better deal if she already has someone better than she is. Men usually have virtually no problem with loving women they view as lower than they are and it has nothing to do with ego or intimidation. I am the dominate one in my relationships because that is how nature designed me to be. The relationships you see falling apart daily are usually because the man has let himself be whipped and the woman no longer respects him, and her love and lust for him vanishes as they go hand in hand.
This "100% equal in all ways in a relationship" idea is a new concept, and if you look around you, it's failing spectatularly.
...like a 20 something male who is clearly more comfortable around women less intelligent than themselves....though the fact that they ever met indicates a problem with the woman (boy, it sure does) because she is "going against her nature".
Keep living kid....perhaps once you've been adult longer than 10 years...and you spend time in relationship with INTELLIGENT women who can say the same thing, your perspective might change.
Then again, maybe not....given that I don't know how you arrived at this place anyway.... | |
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| All spoken...
Posted: 7/6/2009 10:20:14 PM | As I have read through more of this thread it reminds me of what it was like dating when I was in my 20s. When I was in my twenties I found I had to hide my light under a bushel. Men would compete with an intelligent woman to prove they were smarter.
I hated competing with men, and the easier way to go was to " dumb down" and stroke a mans ego.
When I was in my 30s I was blessed to meet a wonderful man who was attracted by my intelligence. He felt my chosing him was a positive reflection of who he was as a man.
I didn't have to introduce myself with a title, ever, my husband was so proud of what I had accomplished he did my boasting for me.
I am now widowed. I have found that now that I am more mature, men of my generation are attracted to an intelligent woman. What was once a liability is now an asset. A majority of men that have contacted me did so because they were attracted to an intelligent woman, and that was reflected in my profile, using wit, sarcasm, and a sense of humor. While my profile listed my career and education level, it was the writing that reflected the intelligence. I never had to say look at me look at me I am so smart! I frequently will get a message from someone who read a forum post and commented that my comments stood out .
We should give men more credit than we do. A confident man will find intelligence in a woman an asset. If a man is looking for a life partner, an intelligent woman has a lot to offer. I personally use spellcheck all the time, as well as dictionary.com so as to not embarrass myself. I have not figured out how to spell check forum posts, so I often will read a post after the fact and see glaring errors in my own writings.
A man can be intelligent and still make spelling errors (Einstein was known to be poor at spelling), and even make grammatical errors. Men also may be keyboard challenged, in that typing is not their best skill. Expecting perfection in the written word will cause a woman to overlook some quality men. To me it is more the content or substance of what is being said than the absolute delivery of such.
In addition there are some things that require talents are beyond my "book learning."
There is musical genius, artistic genius, mechanical genius...there are talents that I envy in others, such as athletic ability, dance rhythm and creative genius that can choreograph, a photographic eye, bravery to face dangers where others would cower and hide... We all have God given talents and if you look at each of us we all have something unique to offer. I just happened to be blessed with highly functional grey matter.
Proof that a confident man can be compatible with an intelligent woman, my husband had just a few college credits to his name. We were happily married for 18 years up tot he time of his death. My current love interest has an associates degree. I respect him for who he is, and he is intelligent enough to maintain my attention, and hold up his end of a conversation.
If a mature intelligent woman is having issues with men, I would look at what signals she is sending out. If she projects an air that she is "better" than those around her, of course this is going to be a turn off, even to an intelligent man, the ones she thinks she wants. Her attitude will be what is causing the problem not her intelligence.
If a young intelligent woman is having issues with men, I just say, give it time, as men
gain maturity and confidence, they will stop competing with you and find your intelligence attractive. | |
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| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 7/6/2009 10:37:45 PM |
Men say they want an intelligent women and some can handle one and some can't.
I actually had a personals ad one time saying I had a genius IQ and was looking for a man who liked smart women. What responded were a lot of narcissistic men who thought they were smart but didn't seem that way to me.
This works both ways. I could not think of anything worse than having to spend the night, let alone days, with a woman who could not carry a conversation about anything other than trivia on which I unfortunately might seem unintelligent to her since I do not watch network television and therefore haven't a clue about movie stars, celebrities, or what famous politician is sleeping in whose bed. I don't rule someone out, however because they have not been to college or graduate school; I don't believe that makes a person intelligent. The intelligence has to be there to start with. But when I receive an email from someone with one word answers or their profile is full of poor grammar and spelling, they are unable to clearly state interests, or they just state many or varied, warning flags go up. As they say beauty is only skin deep, real beauty comes from within and is evidenced when someone opens their mouth or puts pen to paper. | |
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| All spoken...
Posted: 7/6/2009 10:54:56 PM | @WindowsDesire
BINGO! You have said in one post something that has taken me at least 4. You covered almost all of the tangents that make up intelligence and attraction to intelligence that I have tried to emphasize. You are truley a much better communicator than I am, thank you for your post.
I have only tried to expand on why a woman might thing her intelligence "intimidates" a man beyond what you've said. Not every women is guilty of being overbearing, however if you think your intelligence intimidates another human being it is my belief that you need to take a long, objectional look at how you interact. You may find that it is not your intelligence, merely your delivery that is "intimidating" the opposite sex. | |
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| All spoken...
Posted: 7/6/2009 11:05:52 PM | WOW...........six pages in three days.
Did I mention that my woman has her Master's Degree???
'nuff said! | |
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| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 7/7/2009 2:37:56 AM | ^^^^ Yea, especially seeing as how the OP was so intimidated by the thread that she ran off. 
How many of us are looking to discuss astrophysics with a woman?
Raises hand.
Call me crazy, but I think it's really cool stuff. You're right though: it's not something women are at all interested in; they tend to go in for astrology instead. | |
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| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 7/7/2009 7:49:28 AM | I like smart women; but I realized long ago that finding a woman as smart or smarter is going to be difficult.
[ooh, that wasn't very intelligent, now was it? -- redo!]
I like smart women, indeed I desire smart women; in fact, if I could find a woman as smart as me I would probably ask her to marry right then and there.
[Oh bother, still not very intelligent, on so many levels. I'll try this again]
Smart women are sexy, smart women can be witty, to engage with a woman who is my intellectual equal would be a rare find; so far that's all it has been, so rare it's like looking for hen's teeth.
[Crikey, not what I think I should be saying. This intelligence thing is not as easy as it looks!]
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OK, all joking aside, smart women, educated women, women of the easy bon mot, women with natural intelligence and a thirst for knowing and understanding have always been attractive. Generally, those were the women I associated with; during my "dating" days (daze) I was in university and those were the women I knew and dated. Only one woman back then was not a college student -- she and I crewed together (well, not in the same boat - although she could have!).
This time around, though, life circumstances are different and finding that "smart" woman may not be as natural as it was before.
TK
{Thinks, maybe, "Dating for Dummies" might be an appropriate purchase. Does anyone know the URL for "Amazon.com"?} | |
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| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 8/9/2009 2:45:47 PM | | The real intelligent ones are also down to earth and make every one around him/her comfortable. The psuedo intelligent ones flank their cleverness at every opportunity. | |
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| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 8/9/2009 2:49:15 PM |
btw, the only thing that makes a woman intimidating is walking around with a huge Rottweiler.
Then when I finally get my male Rottie (s?), I'll make sure I have a lot of books to read in my spare time as I'll scare off the rest of the men who aren't already intimidated by my obvious intelligence and wit...lol. | |
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| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 8/9/2009 2:52:32 PM | doth a woe r men intimidate splenderous slippered wicked
sure why not - as all girls own more than one pair of shoes and never the reasoning for doing so.
i fail to see why a modicum of intelligence would intimidate eg me
To whit to woo whence within a wanton wired potential wedlocked welationship there be always, forever more, someone more intelligentsia a veritable variety of visions-evermore.
wicked exists stage left for muffins | |
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| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 8/9/2009 2:53:27 PM | I hate to bump this thread... it's refreshing to date people who are intelligent but finding them is tough.
I believe in the 15% rule. 85% of the population just doesn't get it. Evidence, when driving do you see some of the crap people pull, or how does a show like My BFF on MTV get any ratings, and the list goes on. These same people are in the dating pool. I've known a woman to date a man because he had a truck, that's it. She could go to pet smart when needed.
I think often times with the intelligent crowd we tend to get in our own way. Out think ourselves. Sometimes I wish I was a dumb guy sometimes. I'd sleep with a lot more women with disregard to how they feel. Crazy! | |
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| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 8/9/2009 3:31:02 PM |
The only time I see men bringing up intelligence is when the girl is really dumb. Overall I don't think men put too much of a priority on intelligence beyond maybe slightly above normal. You don't see too often men running up to their buddies "omg the girl i met is so smart!" No one cares as long as she isn't an idiot. How many of us are looking to discuss astrophysics with a woman? That's just not how male/female relationships tend to go.
I wouldn't date a woman I view as smarter than I am. I expect my woman to look up to and respect me, and she couldn't if she viewed me as her inferior. It's just how females work. They marry UP, and I would have to question a woman who is dating men less intelligent than she is as she is going against her nature. Relationships work smoother this way, and she has far less reason to constantly be scanning the horizon for the bigger, better deal if she already has someone better than she is. Men usually have virtually no problem with loving women they view as lower than they are and it has nothing to do with ego or intimidation. I am the dominate one in my relationships because that is how nature designed me to be. The relationships you see falling apart daily are usually because the man has let himself be whipped and the woman no longer respects him, and her love and lust for him vanishes as they go hand in hand.
This "100% equal in all ways in a relationship" idea is a new concept, and if you look around you, it's failing spectatularly.
cmdfunk....You've nailed it once again. This is exactly what I believe too. The most intelligent/successful women are the loneliest of all...they are attracted to intelligent men because they need the mental stimulation in order to have that 'connection'. On the other hand I have noticed that the very same men they're attracted to, don't require the same constant stimulation in order to have the connection....I believe what it comes down to, is both genders require different stimulus to gain that 'connection'. | |
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| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 8/9/2009 3:37:18 PM | "I wouldn't date a woman I view as smarter than I am. I expect my woman to look up to and respect me, and she couldn't if she viewed me as her inferior. "
smarter women are smart enough not to view anyone as inferior. | |
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| A question for you serious-minded men...
Posted: 8/9/2009 3:39:57 PM | "While they are not mutually inclusive of each other, it can be said that the more knowledge one accumulates, the more one can fathom how little they actually do know, in relation to all that there is to know, which naturally would lead one to be humble."
You are soooooooo right. A colleague and I earned our doctorates the same year ... it was a bit of a race to the finish for us. grins. Having each other finishing was a bit motivating. Afterwards we looked back totally humbled by the process. We learned what a vast ocean of things there were that we did not know and what a tiny brick of knowledge we had become expert students of.
ps... and we learned we could end a sentence with a preposition. grins. | |
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