OKRob
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Joined: 6/4/2009
Msg: 26 | |
| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 4:57:31 AM | That's good advice in the first paragraph Nick, thanks I will check it all out again.
I really need to clear up the store card thing though, for your post as well Hen.
Store cards a great, we get a lot of reward through them and they do save us money. Can't deny it.
But the cards mean soooo much more to the companies involved and we don't even know what information they're gathering about us.
By this way of thinking.... If supermarkets can do that to us, then I dread to think what governments can do :)
It isn't about the cards themselves. It's about the way they work and how that might be applied to more serious organizations than supermarkets. | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 5:17:56 AM | Rob, we appear to have migrated from dictatorship to a dislike of how technology allows buissiness to acumalate information, and if it can then be misused, now there is legislation that prevents abuse or holding long term electronic data on us, that these limits exist preclude that we are living in a dicatorship.
So what if the Government listens to every phone call?, there isa number of seconds delay built into the connection and transfer of call, so that if the need arises a location reception can be turned off to prevent the use of mobiles to trigger explosions, Spain had this a year or so ago, or that any individual can be traced from his mobile phone even if its switched of, a US sex offender was caughta and extradited in this manner, this isa good use of technolgy, its not like they have list of jews they want to deport, should then likes of the BNP sweep to power and change how the technolgy is used.
I think your gripe is about what could happen, not what is happening, take the US, if your pc is using a second copy of software and microsft looks at your pc when your online and sees it, they can bill you for doing so, is this an invasion of privacy or should copyright thieves remeber not to go online in case they get caught?. | |
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OKRob
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Joined: 6/4/2009
Msg: 28 | |
| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 5:32:41 AM | ^ great points again. But again it works both ways. I agree that Copyright should be protected. Everybody has a right to their intellectual property. But then there are the likes of Google who are highly renowed for the amount of spying they do and have even been taken to court by the US government because they would not hand over information that had gathered from their users. What is so important that the US government would start a legal case against them? :)
Something else that you said was real important as well... It isn't necessarily about what's happening. It's about what could be happening or the shape of things to come. | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 5:40:59 AM | | Rob, the last thing that worried me was the time limit for detintion change, thats the worst erosion of libirty ive seen in my liftime, and it was enacted through correct parlimentay procedure, which meerly made it worse. | |
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OKRob
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Joined: 6/4/2009
Msg: 30 | |
| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 5:46:24 AM | Hahaha hey Nick, would you say that it's safe to assume they're all laughing at us because we sit here discussing it and theorising rather than stomping into our MP's ofice and demanding answers hahaha 
As long as we're only talking about it we're not doing them any harm eh haa!!! | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 5:49:15 AM | "Thank you for your contribution, however when i express my opinion that the facts do not support a c0ntention, its usual to makea rebuttal that show they do, if you read somewhere in the HSE legislation that the laws exist to limit movement, and this equates to a a point that supports we are living or moving tords liviung in a diictatorship, please contribute more of your opinion that this legislation in fact does show we are living in a dictorship.
If not dont bring your opinion to a fact fight. "
That was written in a hurry...
I don't really like using it, but even a quick wickepeepeedee can give you an idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship
In which is mentioned: "the government is ruled by an individual, without hereditary ascension."
We are governed by an unelected Prime Minister, I think that would be one reason why we are in a dictatorship (and not a dictorship)...
However: "A government controlled by one person or a small group of people. "
Our War footing Cabinet?
"For some scholars, dictatorship is a form of government that has the power to govern without consent of those being governed, while totalitarianism describes a state that regulates nearly every aspect of public and private behavior of the people."
Well....
I think we can agree with the original opener of this thread that if you look beyond and see the wider picture of these increasing powers and observations of us citizens, then most likely you will see what constitutes a dictatorship through the back door...but then one can always bury ones head in the sand...Having had to show you, I guess then one of two things; your stupid, or your head in the sand....There where many stupid people in early to mid 20thC Europe and Russia, as well as ones with their heads in the sand... | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 5:52:41 AM |
Stalin had his expansionist goals and got half of Europe, he plotted with Hitler and doublecrossed him, people don't actually forget that, they just don't realise it
Stalin doublecrossed Hitler? What?
All this talk about supermarket cards reminds me of the old supermarket 'disloyalty' events : where people would meet up and swap loyalty cards , just to have a bit of fun with the supermarket databases. So suddenly the middle aged mother of four is living off of tesco value cider and frozen pizza , and the student is buying fresh vegetables and soap.
We are governed by an unelected Prime Minister, I think that would be one reason why we are in a dictatorship (and not a dictorship)...
Surely all our Prime Ministers have been unelected? People vote for a party , not a person. | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 5:54:02 AM | Shall I repeat:
"Stalin had his expansionist goals and got half of Europe, he plotted with Hitler and doublecrossed him, people don't actually forget that, they just don't realise it"
"Surely all our Prime Ministers have been unelected? People vote for a party , not a person."
Not even worth answering...
Someone has bad eyesite, clubs for fingers, or a VERY small keyboard... | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 6:17:33 AM |
That was written in a hurry...
I don't really like using it, but even a quick wickepeepeedee can give you an idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship
You dont like using it for the good and suffiecent reasoon that it does not support bthat the UK is governed by any of the definitions on it. Why citea swource that does not support yourself?.
We are governed by an unelected Prime Minister, I think that would be one reason why we are in a dictatorship (and not a dictorship)...
We are and we are not, your very confused, thats what happens when you use wikki and dont know what it has to say, the UK PM cannot impose a law on anyone, Parlimnet is who does that, unlike AH who as a dictator could order any citizen to execute any other citizen by his exress will alone, and grant immunity to citizen doing so.
Our War footing Cabinet?
No, the War Powers act is a Parlimenatry legislation, the execuative cannot decalre war, only parliment can start and end wars, PM and cabinet prosecute them once declared.
I think we can agree with the original opener of this thread that if you look beyond and see the wider picture of these increasing powers and observations of us citizens, then most likely you will see what constitutes a dictatorship through the back door...but then one can always bury ones head in the sand
Since you cant read what wikki had to say, i find im at a loss on how to continue.
Having had to show you, I guess then one of two things; your stupid, or your head in the sand....There where many stupid people in early to mid 20thC Europe and Russia, as well as ones with their heads in the sand...
I asked you to show me Healthand safty law and how is supports that we are living in a dictorship, you avoided that and instead came back with wikki 3 definitions of what constitutes a dictatorship, none of which apply to the UK Parlimentay system. | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 6:18:49 AM | Heading for a police state/dictatorship?...Dead right we are!
What always surprises me is that people name everything apart from the main cause, which is the police. They are a complete law unto themselves in this country, as last night's Panorama hinted at. In my area, for example, anyone out after dark is hassled, classic police state tactics.
Until they are brought under control, you can put issues regarding the EU, ID cards, CCTV cameras, Health & Safety etc etc to one side! | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 6:22:20 AM | Shall I repeat:
"Stalin had his expansionist goals and got half of Europe, he plotted with Hitler and doublecrossed him, people don't actually forget that, they just don't realise it"
Really so it was Stalin who DOW AH and invaded Germany nin June 41 then right?, breaking the Ribbontrof molotov agreement to not goto war, how come your version is the direct oposite of whats in every history/political acount bof the period?, what people who can read realise is your just making it up as you go along....
"Surely all our Prime Ministers have been unelected? People vote for a party , not a person."
Not even worth answering... .
Of course not, why advertise more that you dont know tyhe differnce between parlimentry democracy, you know then place whewre you live where any party can be elected, and political party rules of who and how the PM changes. | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 6:51:40 AM | "Really so it was Stalin who DOW AH and invaded Germany nin June 41 then right?, breaking the Ribbontrof molotov agreement to not goto war, how come your version is the direct oposite of whats in every history/political acount bof the period?, what people who can realise is your just making it up as you go along...."
Right Mr. Clubsforfingers
Stalin told military academy graduates May 5, 1941: "And now after we have become strong... we must shift from the defensive to the attack." He had nine million men, 38,000 tanks and 22,200 aircraft...
Stalin had an army ammassed on the "border" , not with an army of defense, but an army of invasion...In other words, he had an army ready to strike...
He also started to build a "Polish Red Army of Liberation" from the ranks of Polish POWS. They were to liberate Poland from the Nazis and provide the nucleus of a Communist regime.
Anyway, this thread is not the place to discuss this is it?
Wot does boutumberd mean sonny? | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 6:59:30 AM | Your a fan of Icebreaker (Suverov)then, only in the SU reviosnist literture of the 90s is it posited that Stalin was getting ready to invade Germany, its discre3dited at nonsense everywhere else in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler-Stalin_Pact
While the rest of the worlsd in history books reads what AH did to Stalin, you prefer fantasy works of what did not appear in printed form till the 90s ofg what might have happened!.
You do know that in May 41 Germany boutumberd the SU right?, and that by 42 SU had 16 million men under arms and outnumbered Germany.
Read a history book sonny. | |
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OKRob
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Joined: 6/4/2009
Msg: 39 | |
| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 7:07:08 AM | | I didn't mean for this to become a huge argument. The nature of politcis I guess. | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 11:36:06 AM |
National ID cards cannot and will not work. There are too many people, like myself, who would just refuse to have/carry them.
When people didn't comply with the errr goverment in what used to be the USSR, didn't they just disapear?.......
Fining people for not carrying them is not a sensible idea. It seems to me that whoever is in power they will go ahead with this scheme as I'm sure its controlled by someone outside of politics.
And they have had good ideas up to date? | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 1:06:12 PM | | Some see the New World Order as a conspiracy theory. Frankly, I see it more and more as a reality... Scarey stuff :-) | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 1:23:35 PM | Your average politically correct / labour voter is already primed for new world order, I'd say they are well ahead of schedule, Rockerfeller dreams.
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 1:51:15 PM |
Your average politically correct / labour voter in this country is already primed and supportive of new world order.
 And I thought it was just me! | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 1:59:29 PM | I read a book in the 1990's when I was at University called Computer Power and Human Reason (circa 1975). I think it should be compulsory reading for anyone who thinks "systems" (particularly I.T. systems) are a panacea for the management of complex social problems. Two things stand out: the lack of accountability (the computer makes the judgement with no human intervention, be it the 0.01p overdraft firing off a £30 fine, where no Human would do something so idiotic, or the automatic speeding ticket, where you've gone a few mph over the limit) and the tendency to set patterns of work in concrete, which all computer systems have. Another problem is of course the misplaced trust people put in these systems being "correct". As we know from airplanes falling out of the sky and databases holding invalid data, trust is the one thing I would NOT assign to any system like this.
I don't really have a problem with CCTV, as long as the above does not apply. In future (the very near future), automation will remove the need for human operators. At this point, with the subsequent lack of accountability, we will truly be living in a scary situation. | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 2:11:56 PM | RobinsonUK,
It's not computers that are incorrect, it's the people that input data incorrectly or implement idiotic software variables.
It's quite easy to program a computer to be "lenient" if somebody goes a few pence over their over draft limit, unfortunately there are so many regulations about now that companies are forced to uphold rigid rules in fear of getting sued.
With regards to surveillance, number plates are already recognised automatically via ANPR and they say human facial recognition is literally a few years round the corner. The problem as such isn't the facial recognition, it's more of a logistical hardware issue. Upgrades and modifications need to be made and that costs time and money. | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 2:16:08 PM |
With regards to companies automating stuff try phoning up a customer services advisor at a large scale BT call center and see how much luck you get trying to manage your affairs with a human operator, I'd much rather speak to a computer, they are that stupid!
Well these people are front ends onto the computer system, nothing more than that. They don't have much (if any) ability to actually make a decision and be accountable for it. That's the point about "systems". Systems are `formalised' and set in stone by computers. The only reason there are people in the call centres is because natural language processing still has a few decades to go before it's a viable alternative. In fact there's a general culture of non-accountability throughout our society. Nobody is to blame because nobody actually takes a decision. Everything is done by committee or looked up in the big-old-book-of-rules. | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 2:38:41 PM |
In fact there's a general culture of non-accountability throughout our society. Nobody is to blame because nobody actually takes a decision. Everything is done by committee or looked up in the big-old-book-of-rules.
Is one of the fundamental 'rules' of a New World Order. It's a state of total individual disempowerment. | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 3:18:06 PM | | Now...We're actually getting to the crux of the biscuit.... | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/7/2009 4:43:57 PM | Its only those with something to feel guilty about worry about CCTV etc.
We live in a dictatorship anyway, when was Gordon Brown voted in by the general public ?
Blair was voted in not Brown and the sooner Brown goes the better. | |
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| UK Dictatorship
Posted: 7/8/2009 12:43:45 AM | | okrob.....you may well fear dictatorship in the UK and you may have plenty of reasons to fear dictatorship, but the greater fear would be a faceless bureaucrat in Brussels. What a great wrong it is that the people are not allowed to vote on the subject of surrendering their national identity to the EU. | |
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