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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/18/2009 6:18:01 AM |
FWB relationships are a myth. Everyone I know who's ever been in one, one side has wanted more than the other and it turned out ugly every time. My friend is in one as we speak and the woman is a complete psycho.
Not at all. I've known plenty of people with health FWB arrangements. I have a perfectly healthy one right now--if we end up with an emotional disparity, then we'll end it, but as of now it's going well and we're both on the same page.
Mind, the same could be said about relationships--so many of them end up with someone feelings things more strongly than the other person, and so many of them end badly. Clearly they're a bad idea, right?
It depends entirely upon the people involved in whatever relationship form, and not on the form itself. And labeling and judging anyone's sexual expression, so long as they're caring and careful, is an ugly thing to do. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/18/2009 7:05:11 AM | Some of you people in the casual sex my-body-is-an-amusement-park crowd still aren't getting it even after numerous people have explained the situation eloquently. I really don't have time to keep up with this thread and reply to all the stuff I'm seeing.
There is no assuming at all, your attitudes towards sex are dictated by your actions. It's not insecure to bring up the subject, that's a cop out. what's insecure is when you're afraid of the subject. I have no problem talking to a woman about my sexual history because I'm proud of the decisions I've made in my life. I don't believe in waiting until marriage I think that's crazy but I don't believe in one night stands or vacation whoring (disgusting). FWB is waaaaay off-topic but it's a very dangerous game.
If I bring the subject up with someone I'm considering long term with and she flat out says "I lost count a long time ago", I will accept that answer and go from there. Whatever I do with said information is my right. To me the red flag would be the "It's none of my business" answer or some other evasive answer. If she's not willing to be verbally intimate with me than the relationship will not be fulfilling to me.
namrael @308 - Again FWB is off topic but if you end up with an emotional disparity (common) and call it off that means someone is going to be emotionally damaged. Thus the reason FWB is a dangerous game.
julianlennon @303 - Your post didn't really make any sense I agree with your first sentence, but then you brought up the vacation whores and basically contradicted yourself.
ambermccoy @302 - See that's the attitude that's a red flag to me, you're outright scared to death of the subject. Who talks about this stuff? To me it's just as important as any other subject if it's someone you're considering long term with. If you try not to think about it to me that expresses a lot of regret.
TK @299 - Agree with you there 100 percent.
soldierfalcon @292 "I have ALWAYS asked this question, and without fail, the girls who were weird about answering it, or evasive had serious issues (in my eyes) and were not compatible with me."
--- Can't disagree with that statement.
p~s @290 - "Don't let me down now, after all, a girls business is whatever she wants it to be. If you don't like it, you don't have to date her"
--- Another woman completely terrified of the subject, a red flag the size of Texas.
divagreen @283 "I have asked, and been asked, this question before. I find it reveals quite a bit about a person's attitude towards sex, regardless of the number being high or low..."
--- Totally correct.
msmicki @279 "I repeat.......those that are doing the asking.....seem to have more issues than those being asked and not answering"
--- That's backwards sorry. It's perfectly normal to pursue a partner that has the same philosophies and views on life as you do.
hrlyguy @277 "I came of age during the sexual revolution, free love and all that. I never could understand the desire to compare numbers. It is so reminiscent of high school. One or one hundred, what's the difference?"
--- Why is it always the people in the casual sex crowd or high number crowd that hold this viewpoint. I find that interesting. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/18/2009 7:27:13 AM |
People have varying reasons for asking this question. Who am I to judge, or be judged?
I respect your opinion on this, although I disagree with it. I think the "how many?" question is an oddball question for an adult to ask another adult. I've given reasons why it might be asked, and none of those reasons involve truly getting to know a partner better. The "body-language" premise is downright silly.
The question is not useful in relating to someone (for reasons I've already given in earlier posts), and it is a little socially inept and boorish. It would be a normal question for a 15-year-old (I asked girls those kinds of questions as a teen), but a little off for a mature, experienced adult. It's the kind of question I would expect someone to ask when they are running out of pertinent things to discuss, and yes, it can be a provocative, uncomfortable question for many women.
There are lots of great things to discuss! Focusing on the here and now will actually create a lot more intimacy and connection between the man and woman. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/18/2009 8:03:05 AM | | Very well said Spitfire! It is a personal choice to have sex and make love with different partners. At my age the last thing I want to know from a man is how many woman he's banged. If I happen to be lucky enough to click and have a relationship with him; I will be the last. That's what matters most. I'd rather discuss how he likes it than how many! | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/18/2009 8:31:23 AM | Anything above zero is definitely way too may LOL
Alright seriously why would anyone worry about that?
Everyone has a past, right??
So just be confident and know that you're good enough to be the last one!!!  | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/18/2009 10:24:40 AM | spitfire, I am going to attempt to meet you in the middle, (because I respect your opinion too)
<div class="quote">
How someone answers the "numbers" question is as irrelevant as what the number actually is. There is no useful, reliable information to be gained from any body-language she exhibits while answering the question, nor from the answer itself.
No one had mentioned body language prior to this. So no one was using this as a premise.
<div class="quote">The "body-language" premise is downright silly.
I am not talking about "oh if you move your this way, it must mean this because a book told me so".
I am talking about the rapid fire unconscious process that happens when two people engage in a conversation, face to face. We unconsciously respond to smell, tonal quality of voice, imperceptible mannerisms, etc. It is not pseudoscience, it is not even psychology, it is more biological than anything else.
<div class="quote">It's the kind of question I would expect someone to ask when they are running out of pertinent things to discuss, and yes, it can be a provocative, uncomfortable question for many women.
This is where you totally win me over. I get the respectful attitude towards women, of your position...
It doesn't come up in, "Hi I'm Sally, why don't we go ahead and order shall we...by the way how many people have you slept with?" kind of conversation, it can actually come from deeper conversations, and the answer can be disclosed within the spirit of trust. Why the need to know? How can you be with a person and feel deeply connected to them, if you are not having these kinds of conversations?
But I would be disingenuous if I said that this is the only reason, or time, that I ask. Sometimes I ask out of curiosity, and it can just as easily be a friend or a potential partner. But I still find that the way that they answer, is an indication of their general attitude towards sex...I just don't judge them on their number, high or low. Period.
And let us have a POF moment of silence, because on this one issue, TK, Abelian, M_Church, Realitybites, and myself actually agree on something. And Winteragain participated in this discussion without calling women sluts. (You are growing!) | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/18/2009 2:44:38 PM | Divagreen: you're arguing just for the sake of arguing. If you're not going to be consistent and try to support your past statements, then there is no basis for an intelligent debate.
Here is a statement from your most recent post:
Divagreen - No one had mentioned body language prior to this. So no one was using this as a premise.
And here is your statement (#291):
Divagreen - Body language is a key component in observing how or what a person thinks/feels about a question, answer, situation, etc...to discount this is to ignore 85% of what your brain is actually telling you.
So, you were relying on the veracity of body-language interpretation as a premise in your reasoning. You just directly contradicted yourself here, and you've also reversed and spun other statements you've made on this thread, so there's no point in discussing it with you. 
And let us have a POF moment of silence, because on this one issue, TK, Abelian, M_Church, Realitybites, and myself actually agree on something.
Who cares?  You five are in the minority on this issue, as the thread clearly shows. Don't expect the world to come to an end because You Five agree on something. Moment of silence??.....what deluded arrogance.  | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/18/2009 2:45:17 PM | | I don't ask the question, I'm of the philosophy more mystery less history. As grown adults we have a expectation that we've been with other partners. I just don't wish to share my lady while in a commited relationship. If we can have this, trust and mutual respect the number is pointless. Heck, she might show me a thing or two, or vice versa. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/18/2009 7:24:21 PM | Oh Spitfire...I do love a good scrap!
What? Are you feeling left out? (Okay I am taunting you...I apologize...but I do love a good scrap).
And why is it whenever I disagree with someone, I am the one arguing? Doesn't it take two? I am having a discussion here, and one that I don't take too personally...you should do the same...
So here we go...
You said:
How someone answers the "numbers" question is as irrelevant as what the number actually is. There is no useful, reliable information to be gained from any------ body-language---- she exhibits while answering the question, nor from the answer itself.
You were the first to bring it up. I was talking about discerning people's attitudes through dialogue up to this point. So I was not using it as a premise for my stance on this subject.
I did say:
Body language is a key component in observing how or what a person thinks/feels about a question, answer, situation, etc...to discount this is to ignore 85% of what your brain is actually telling you.
I was merely presenting a fact in layman's terms, in order to avoid a dissertation in physiological/neuropattern response/musculature, because I thought that would be boring, and totally going off topic...(which I am frequently guilty of...there is your admission).
Don't confuse fact with opinion. I was not stating an opinion...I have not offered my opinion on that subject, and furthermore, within the context of body language, yes, there are certain "tells", however most interpretations are subjective and therefore not necessarily credited.
You just directly contradicted yourself here, and you've also reversed and spun other statements you've made on this thread, so there's no point in discussing it with you.
No I didn't. You are merely projecting your reasoning onto mine...and of course the two don't add up...
You five are in the minority on this issue, as the thread clearly shows. Don't expect the world to come to an end because You Five agree on something.
I have been on these forums discussing this very same (exhausting) topic for nearly a year, (because I am a firm believer that a person's character should not be based on their "magic number"). I do believe in transparent processing and honest communication...call it forthrightness, as you will...I have been debating with these very same people (well, maybe not Abelian, we have so far seen eye to eye on this particular topic) mostly indirectly, and the fact that we can all agree, on the issue of honest disclosure, is a huge step between having a treatise between the "two camps". (Tongue in cheek in use of terminology).
And stop winking at me unless you are flirting...otherwise, it is just annoying. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/19/2009 1:12:59 PM | The debate is over and done with. Anyone can read my posts (and those of others) throughout the thread which clearly establish why the "how many?" question is rather pointless and vacuous. Asking the question certainly doesn't add anything to a budding relationship. If I have time later, I might summarize some of my main points; but the case has been presented fairly well.
And stop winking at me unless you are flirting...otherwise, it is just annoying.
Stop sending me private emails unless you are flirting....otherwise, it is just annoying---along with that diva-sized arrogance which seems to ooze out of you. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/19/2009 1:37:38 PM | Stop sending me private emails unless you are flirting....otherwise, it is just annoying---along with that diva-sized arrogance which seems to ooze out of you.
I only sent the one, in attempt to achieve a truce, so that we can make this debate less personal, and leave insults out of it...
As far as the diva-sized arrogance...you might possibly have me there...although I like to view it as confidence.
And you are winking at me again... | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/23/2009 6:31:38 PM | NightHawk2005
RE; I'd need to know what the circumstances were and decide on that basis. And then you wrote: As long as it was only with someone she truly loved, I could be forgiving.
I get the sense that even if it was NOT with someone that she truly loved, but had a valid explanation, that you would give a lady forgiveness; as you first typed that you would need to know the circumstances.
If it was with someone she truly loved you would be forgiving? And what exactly does she need to be forgiving to you for? If she shares the same beliefs as you, is it not God that would be forgiving of her? I could see how her past may possibly affect you, but to be forgiving to you, when having sex with another was done before she even met you. I don't get that one.
I have had sexual partners in my past and now I am waiting until marriage. However, I would not need my fiance to be able to forgive me. What I did was in my past and would not require forgiveness from my partner. Please explain why your partner would need to be forgiven to you? | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/23/2009 7:01:22 PM |
I think the "how many?" question is an oddball question for an adult to ask another adult. I've given reasons why it might be asked, and none of those reasons involve truly getting to know a partner better. The "body-language" premise is downright silly.
I believe you are the one failing to be an adult. You are using the most transparent of adolescent ploys when you inject your rather personal notion of adults are supposed to talk about. Based on what you've posted in this thread, I would never consider you datable. YOu have consistently ignored the reasons you've been given for asking that question, so to avoid further prevarication on your part, I'll just say that I'll ask a woman ANYTHING I feel like asking and the fastest way for her to have me decide to to not date her would be to try to second guess what she thinks I want to hear or to tell me it's none of my business. Your answers in this thread epitomize the deceitful behaviour I will never tolerate from a partner. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/23/2009 8:20:55 PM | The sad news is that most women are wh*res and at some early point in their life whether it be teens or twenties had sex with a guy they were not in a long term relationship with or in love with. A wh*re to me is any woman that has sex with someone she isn't exclusively dating. Just because she's selective about what guys she casually puts out for doesn't make it any better. It just means she's a wh*re for guys that fit her criteria.
This makes it almost impossible to find a quality girlfriend. At best, you're going to find a reformed woman with a history. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/23/2009 9:41:07 PM | spitfire,
I've given reasons why it might be asked, and none of those reasons involve truly getting to know a partner better. The "body-language" premise is downright silly.
I think that you could read how COMFORTABLE they are with their real "number" by reading their body language after asked the question. I think someone who's an over-25 virgin and someone who has guilt about their # being too high may react the same way. However, with that said, if anyone is comfortable with their # but feels that it's an unfair question to ask, you're not going to get a lot out of it.
You won't know more about someone necessarily by getting their #. It BEGS for stereotyping. Someone may be accused of being a prude because they're 30 and have only slept with 2 people.... or the opposite that they are craving for sexual fun because it's only been 2 and it's an early mid-life crisis after a divorce. Another would be considered a forever-slut because they're 30 and have slept with 30.
It's personal -- it's a lot like asking how many girls have you fingered? How many girls have you made out with? How many women have you unable to give an orgasm to when going down on them? How many times have you lied about being sick to get out of work? How many times do you jerk off in a week?
We'd like to know the answers to all these questions about just about everyone, sure... but it's pretty unfair to ask while demanding (honest) answers. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/24/2009 3:38:06 AM |
wh*re to me is any woman that has sex with someone she isn't exclusively dating
Last I checked, a wh*re received money in exchange for sexual services. Your describing a good old fashioned slut if you want to use a derogatory term. I just figure it's a grown woman who knows what she wants and is not easily controlled by others opinions of how she should act. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/24/2009 6:43:23 AM |
Last I checked, a wh*re received money in exchange for sexual services. Your describing a good old fashioned slut if you want to use a derogatory term. I just figure it's a grown woman who knows what she wants and is not easily controlled by others opinions of how she should act.
It's not nice to go around calling women sluts and whores, but whore doesn't mean prostitute. Though someone can be both.
1) a woman who engages in sexual acts for money : prostitute; also : a promiscuous or immoral woman
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whore | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/24/2009 8:05:59 AM |
You won't know more about someone necessarily by getting their #. It BEGS for stereotyping. Someone may be accused of being a prude because they're 30 and have only slept with 2 people.... or the opposite that they are craving for sexual fun because it's only been 2 and it's an early mid-life crisis after a divorce. Another would be considered a forever-slut because they're 30 and have slept with 30.
Good observation. I'll go even further than this and restate one of my points from an earlier post. Not only does asking for a body-count beg for stereotyping (what I called a pejorative judgment), but the query inevitably leads to that pejorative judgment. It doesn't matter whether one is speculating based on the answer itself or the evasiveness/body language/gestures/grimaces which seem to accompany the answer. You end up making interpretations (based on this one answer) of the SO's behavior or character which are not warranted. | |
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p~s
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Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 319 | |
| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/24/2009 1:30:35 PM |
p~s @290 - "Don't let me down now, after all, a girls business is whatever she wants it to be. If you don't like it, you don't have to date her"
--- Another woman completely terrified of the subject, a red flag the size of Texas.
It was abelian who said originally that a mans business is whatever he wants it to be etc.etc. So I suppose the red flag really applies to him since I was just being sarcastic by repeating his statment but with the roles reversed to show how ego driven his statement sounded. | |
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p~s
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Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 320 | |
| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/24/2009 1:54:19 PM |
The sad news is that most women are wh*res and at some early point in their life whether it be teens or twenties had sex with a guy they were not in a long term relationship with or in love with. A wh*re to me is any woman that has sex with someone she isn't exclusively dating. Just because she's selective about what guys she casually puts out for doesn't make it any better. It just means she's a wh*re for guys that fit her criteria.
How many MEN sleep around, play the field, sow their wild oats ? Give me a break, if those women are whores than so are most men by your definition....making it just as equally difficult to find a quality man, by your standards of quality. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/24/2009 1:55:50 PM | | Depends on what YOU want. If you yourself are a slut and not at all interested in settling down, it doesn't matter, does it-? | |
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p~s
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Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 322 | |
| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/24/2009 2:23:48 PM | I don't think how many you've had is the same thing as how many you Have.
Depends on what YOU want. If you yourself are a slut and not at all interested in settling down, it doesn't matter, does it-?
If the person of interest is currently sleeping around as well as trying to get to know you then you have another problem that has nothing to do with the past numbers. You can't say a person wont be faithful because of past numbers though. I was faithful to my x who I was with for ten years, before him I was faithful to the previous x of 4 years, in between I've had other lovers, but I know dam well when I settle down again I will be completely faithful. If you start asking questions and expecting honest answers than you better be prepared. What will you ask next, who was your best lover? Than why? How about comparing how I felt for so and so compared to you?
Some things are better left in the past, what do they concern you for? I don't ask because I get jealous, even if it was in the past, so sometimes it's just best to leave things be. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/24/2009 2:34:48 PM | "How many MEN sleep around, play the field, sow their wild oats ? Give me a break, if those women are whores than so are most men by your definition....making it just as equally difficult to find a quality man, by your standards of quality."
I agree. Manwhores are no better. But women don't want the men that don't sleep around. Not physically attractive enough to them. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/24/2009 6:08:29 PM |
I respect your opinion on this, although I disagree with it. I think the "how many?" question is an oddball question for an adult to ask another adult. I've given reasons why it might be asked, and none of those reasons involve truly getting to know a partner better.
If youre an adult, no question should be off limits. Are we so afraid of what others will think that we are afraid to answer. If some man told me it was none of my business then I would thank him and say goodbye. I would not judge someone by their number. I would not judge them for not wanting to tell me. I would judge them for telling me what is or is not my business.
There are lots of great things to discuss! Focusing on the here and now will actually create a lot more intimacy and connection between the man and woman
How can you get to know a partner better without asking questions.
Focussing on the here and now is only a part of the connection between man and woman. Are we to throw away our past then when we meet someone? It did not exist before we met that person? Then how did we become who we are? If we want them to accept who we are, they have to understand how we got there. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/24/2009 6:22:06 PM | I really don't understand why folks think someone is ashamed of their past....if they think their sexual past is noone's business ......????.......
My sexual past is my business. If you want to assume I'm a whore because I feel that way.......then you are definately not they type of person I want to date to start with.
Your negative assumptions about me are your issues........not mine. | |
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