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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/25/2009 9:01:10 AM |
How can you get to know a partner better without asking questions.
There are lots of questions one can ask a partner which will give one profound insight into the nature and character of the SO. That has been discussed throughout this thread---activities, hobbies, career, friends, past LTRs, political/social opinions and many other things help to form a very accurate representation of who someone is. A body-count does not do that. Giving a total number of partners, outside of knowing the contexts in which these liaisons happened, just doesn't reveal useful information; and I don't think many people are boorish enough to ask the precise details in which each sexual connection happened. Without knowing the context of each experience, a body-count doesn't tell you anything.
If a woman wanted me to give her a body-count, I'd want to know why that was important to her. I haven't dated a woman in a very long time who was unusual enough to ask me that---I'd have to go back to the teenaged years. I also asked 5 of my female friends and exes about this, and all of them said they'd want to know why the question was being asked. If you tell a woman: "Well, I just want to see if you're evasive in response to the question"----will that tend to build intimacy? Of course not. So there is no sensible, credible reason one can give, in an intimate moment, for wanting a body-count. It's just a provocative, awkward question. There's no getting around that. It's an intimacy-killer. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/25/2009 10:57:41 AM | I love this thread, mainly because it turned out to be something different from what the OP intended it to be!!!
The thing is that everyone had created an argument that to which there is no "right" or "wrong" answer. Everybody is biased because they answer according to their own personal histories, standards, morals, and opinions. What one may perceive to be as wrong/strange/disgusting or whatever, will not always be perceived the same by another person. The best thing to do is be open-minded and try to see what the other is trying to say as long as he/she does not sound like a complete idiot.
Well with that said let's stop arguing and sing "Heal The World" by Michael Jackson!! 
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/25/2009 12:09:12 PM | It was abelian who said originally that a mans business is whatever he wants it to be etc.etc.
I did not say that. I said, my business is what I want it to be. You are deliberately misquoting me in order to create the strawman argument below:
So I suppose the red flag really applies to him since I was just being sarcastic by repeating his statment but with the roles reversed to show how ego driven his statement sounded.
That is purely fiction. My statement obviously applies to anyone. In fact, it's essentially a tautology, since everyone asks only those things they consider to be their business. Usually what they don't consider their business are those things they don't want asked, but need a way to be self-righteous in not answering.
So there is no sensible, credible reason one can give, in an intimate moment, for wanting a body-count.
Again, you are prevaricating. Who said anything about asking that question in an intimate moment? You just don't seem to get it. The question has always come up in a casual conversation and it's only when continuing the conversation becomes very ``un-casual'' that it would be a problem. A person who says it's none of my business has made the conversation less than casual because a simple answer like an estimate or ``I don't know'' is just fine. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/25/2009 7:37:03 PM |
Who said anything about asking that question in an intimate moment?
I'm sure it would have to be asked in an intimate moment----"intimate" doesn't necessarily have to be in bed during sex. Obviously, that would be a very bad time to ask the "how many?" question. But, an intimate moment also occurs when a couple are just alone somewhere having a conversation. I don't think too many guys would risk asking for a body-count in front of others----I'd love to see that mistake.
While the question is not optimal at any time, there are very few people who would ask their SO this question (except maybe as a teen playing a drinking game) while out with a group of friends or in a public place within earshot of other folks.
The question has always come up in a casual conversation
The question doesn't just come up. Someone deliberately brings it up. I just asked a 6th female acquaintance what she would think about being asked this question, so now I've had 6 for 6 say that it's an unsavory question.  | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/25/2009 9:27:31 PM | spitfire...my arch nemesis...I have actually started having fantasies about you in tights, a mask, and a cape...wait a minute, a CAPE??? Don't you know those are dangerous? Why you could be sucked up into an airplane, for goodness sake!
The question has always come up in a casual conversation.
The question doesn't just come up.
Yes it can. It depends on the nature of the conversation, and its general tone.
But, an intimate moment also occurs when a couple are just alone somewhere having a conversation.
So why is it, if someone asked this question, would it be considered unsavory? Would it be "unsavory" to ask someone if they have ever had a sexually transmitted disease? And don't preach to me that the difference lies in the questions. Both are intimate, legitimate questions, and both deserve an honest response.
I just asked a 6th female acquaintance what she would think about being asked this question, so now I've had 6 for 6 say that it's an unsavory question.
I have asked four people this evening, if they would find it offensive. Here are my responses:
w: No, I mean, at least we are talking about it!
x: I don't know...it would depend on how they asked.
me: Would you get offended if I asked?
x: (laughs) No, because I know how you are!
me: Would you answer it?
x: Of course I would!
y: It wouldn't bother me really...but, I don't know...
me: Is it because you really don't know how many people you have slept with?
y: (laughs) You know me too well!
z: Yeah! I mean, I don't have anything to hide.
I have four to your six. But I think that this whole "investigation", and asking people you are acquainted with, is a flawed way to present your debate. So stop using it. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/25/2009 10:15:05 PM | I'm sure it would have to be asked in an intimate moment-
Naturally. If you had to actually address anything as it was stated, you would be sol.
The question doesn't just come up.
Well, not for people who live in fear of answering it, anyway. It's not a big deal to those of us who don't make it a big deal.
I just asked a 6th female acquaintance what she would think about being asked this question, so now I've had 6 for 6 say that it's an unsavory question.
I don't care if you've asked 6000 people. I'm not those people and I don't live by taking votes on what I should do. You are engaging in a logical fallacy and doing it badly at that. Look up ``logical fallacies'' and see if you can construct a reply that is logically sound.
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/25/2009 10:43:16 PM | MsMicki:
I, for one, have tried not to assign anything I would define as sordid to your sexual past, or your past, period. That is not my style. I am a "trust but verify" kind of guy.
But here's the problem to me re your attitude. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that you and I were a couple and were about to take that relationship to the next level - getting sexual. Well, the realist that I am, I know that what you want to call "your past" may now become my future. I want to know what I'm getting in to. And yes, knowing your past may become a deal breaker; perhaps a red flag that needs to be dealt with, or maybe nothing at all.
But to me it is as if desiring to know other facets of your past that may affect our/my future.
Prison?
Drug use/abuse?
Smoker?
Relationship with parents?
Exes?
We don't come into a new relationship with clean slates anymore. Not at our ages. (Well, not you, 39 and holding, right?) there are issues in my past that will only bringup with an intimate - but it is her right to know. Because my past may become her future.
Besides, if an intimate can't be open about this issue, It's my inclination to wonder what else is being hidden behind the door labeled, "My business." And that is the biggest red flag and deal breaker in my book.
TK
{I wonder what's behind "door ____"} | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/26/2009 4:42:41 AM |
But to me it is as if desiring to know other facets of your past that may affect our/my future.
Prison?
Drug use/abuse?
Smoker?
Relationship with parents?
Exes?
These facets I understand........they will have a direct effect on the here and now.
But for me, I'm more interested in....
STD's? &
Are you willing to be tested?
then I am in their "number"
I don't care who they "were"........I want to know who they are "now". | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/26/2009 7:53:38 AM | MsMicki wrote:
I don't care who they "were"........I want to know who they are "now".
And there in lies the crux. For me, the "were" is as important as the "now" and the "will be," although what the future holds is more of a "what I would like it to be."
Staying in the "how many," category: how many, how few, what type, frequency, blah blah, are a reflection on whothe person is. Their values, where they came from, where they desire to go. For instance, me with my low number (so low it is almost not a number) would probably not be desirable mate for a woman with a high number - perceived or actual notions about sex, etc.
On the other hand say a couple meet, one with high numbers the other with low, and the one with high numbers had an epiphany in their life, a "come to Jesus moment," if you will, and is now of the mind that multiple partners were regrettable. That would also tell something. It would tell of where the person was, but also tell how he or she got to where they now are, and perhaps be an indicator of there they desire to be in the future.
So, for me, the "number" is very important. I place a value on sex and physical intimacy that does not comport with many those here on PoF. I also value others that have similar tenets. WEll, I value most everybody, but only would seek intimacy with a woman of like mind and spirit.
That's why I care who they were, AND who they are now.
TK
{as for the future, I cracked my crystal ball - talk about misty moors of time} | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/26/2009 8:19:32 AM |
These facets I understand........they will have a direct effect on the here and now.
But for me, I'm more interested in....
It also depends on the situation. In my life, the number of people my partner has been with does have an affect on the here and now. In our situation we run into a lot of her past partners on a frequent basis the last one we ran into was Sunday in a corner store.
If they were just vague nameless people it would be a lot easier to deal with but running into them does get a bit annoying.
STD's? &
Are you willing to be tested?
Perhaps at our age it's not an issue, but for younger people there are other health aspects than an STD. Chlamydia for example, and other STD's may leave a woman infertile... She could still be STD free now... but the legacy of it could affect her the rest of her life...
Likewise, Cervical cancer... a woman with a lot of partners may have been exposed to HPV.... settle down for a life with a woman only to have her die early from something that she got as a teenager? A good immune system can throw off HPV but the damage is already done...
Nice... Shall we consider Herpes? Hepatitis? These too can have life altering impacts.
Being STD clean only tells part of the story...
I don't care who they "were"........I want to know who they are "now".
What if someone wanted to remain 'friends' with their ex sex partners? Wouldn't that make them both "were" and "now" in your partners life? How would you know if the other person didn't bother to disclose that their 'friend' was also their 'fcuk buddy' for years.... | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/26/2009 9:26:21 AM | y: It wouldn't bother me really...but, I don't know...
me: Is it because you really don't know how many people you have slept with?
y: (laughs) You know me too well!
I saw a woman on another forum where this subject came up and she said the same thing for the most part. She didn't feel the subject was appropriate or mattered but in another post in the same thread she outright admitted she couldn't remember how many guys she's been with. So yep I still say when a man or woman is terrified of the subject, there's a reason for it. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/26/2009 2:10:46 PM |
Perhaps at our age it's not an issue, but for younger people there are other health aspects than an STD. Chlamydia for example, and other STD's may leave a woman infertile... She could still be STD free now... but the legacy of it could affect her the rest of her life...
Likewise, Cervical cancer... a woman with a lot of partners may have been exposed to HPV.... settle down for a life with a woman only to have her die early from something that she got as a teenager? A good immune system can throw off HPV but the damage is already done...
Of course, infertility happens for many or no causes in both men and women. If it's that big of a concern I guess you both get fertility tested prior to making a commitment. As far as HPV goes, most women who have had even a single partner have been exposed so if that's a major concern, better go find yourself a virgin. While you are at it, better d a full DNA profile (what do those run these days?) to see how many cancer causing genes she might carry. After all, there are a lot of types of cancer out there that someone could possibly get if they were predisposed to it. As afr as Herpes and Hepatitis, since these are not things that go away they count under the concern for current STDs and would require disclosure. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/26/2009 3:25:48 PM | Like Eddie Murphy once said, an 18 year old barely understands the mechanics of sex, and sure as hell doesn't have a clue what they're doing when it comes to sex.
So wether you have 5 partners or 500, all you r doing is spreading STDs. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/26/2009 4:27:15 PM |
If they were just vague nameless people it would be a lot easier to deal with but running into them does get a bit annoying.
Why?
Insecure much?
Which goes back to my original point in this thread.......that I think those that ask "how many" are insecure.
Nice how that all tied right together 
Perhaps at our age it's not an issue, but for younger people there are other health aspects than an STD. Chlamydia for example, and other STD's may leave a woman infertile... She could still be STD free now... but the legacy of it could affect her the rest of her life...
Likewise, Cervical cancer... a woman with a lot of partners may have been exposed to HPV.... settle down for a life with a woman only to have her die early from something that she got as a teenager? A good immune system can throw off HPV but the damage is already done...
Nice... Shall we consider Herpes? Hepatitis? These too can have life altering impacts.
Being STD clean only tells part of the story...
Good Lord.......I refuse to live my life on a "what if" philosophy.
Your G/F could die in a car wreck tomorrow.......should she not drive?
Your G/F could get could lung cancer tomorrow.....should she never go into a bar or public place where people smoke?
As for your STD theories.........a woman can get all those from just one partner.
So "how many" doesn't really hold much credence to your point.
What if someone wanted to remain 'friends' with their ex sex partners? Wouldn't that make them both "were" and "now" in your partners life? How would you know if the other person didn't bother to disclose that their 'friend' was also their 'fcuk buddy' for years....
Oh lookie......we're right back to the insecure point 
What do I care if my guy f*cked his now friend at some point?
If they're cool with still being friends.......that's just another good point to me!
People that can't be civil w/ their ex's carry too much baggage for my taste. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/26/2009 4:58:48 PM | The question is unfair. Many young people are experimenting at the height of STD outbreaks, many others are still virgins.
Who should tell people what to do when the government gave you license to do the nasty as young as 16?
I am an old bone way anyway, should not have a say on this LOL
By the way, if a man asks me how many, I end the attempt at a relationship before it goes anywhere. The reason is sad but shows how insecure some men can be: My second boyfriend asked me that question. I truthfully answered one. But I failed to mention that that "one" was so open minded and experienced that we didn't leave a stone unturned together. Few days into intimacy, my second boyfriend started to doubt I was with only one guy before him and caused me too much hurt. Needless to say we broke up over his insecurity and his lack of experience compared to only ONE guy before him. Was his problem not mine. Any man who found it in himself to ask me later was shot down.
I never ask a man how many........ it's a ridiculous and stupid question and sometimes signifies NOTHING.
When my second boyfriend asked me how many and I said one he said half jokingly "you must be crap in bed"..... the irony of it!!!!!
You can't bring people down to some statistics. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/26/2009 8:52:29 PM | As afr as Herpes and Hepatitis, since these are not things that go away they count under the concern for current STDs and would require disclosure
Apparently you know nothing about Hepatitis either...
I have a friend who got Hep B she was able to get rid of it... they told her if she didn't manage to get rid of it, she would end up with a chronic infection. She was lucky, she threw it off... The guy she got it from and at least one of the 3 guys she gave it to weren't as lucky...
Most adults infected with the hepatitis B virus fully recover and develop life-long immunity. Between 2% and 10% of individuals infected as adults will become chronic carriers, which means they will be infectious to others and can develop chronic liver damage. Infected children, especially newborn babies, are much more likely to become chronic carriers.
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/26/2009 9:37:16 PM | Ruby Darling your stories prove nothing, other than the fact you've dated some real losers. If I asked you that, which I quite assure you I would at some point, and you said "one" I'd be quite fine wih it. I certainly wouldn't make a comment about how you perform in bed. If a guy truly likes you he wouldn't worry about a lack of experience and would just enjoy the experience with you. If he wanted a more experienced partner, that's his right I suppose but you should never be degraded for answering honestly. So again, stop dating losers.
In essence it's actually good they did ask the question because you found out who they really are by what they did with the information.
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/26/2009 9:37:17 PM |
Oh lookie......we're right back to the insecure point
What do I care if my guy f*cked his now friend at some point?
If they're cool with still being friends.......that's just another good point to me!
People that can't be civil w/ their ex's carry too much baggage for my taste.
I dont think it is insecure to not want your partner hanging out with his or her exlovers. I am not wanting to make friends with my partners ex either. They are ex for a reason. If someone didnt tell me that the friend was an ex lover then they would be an ex too when I found out.
As for your STD theories.........a woman can get all those from just one partner.
So "how many" doesn't really hold much credence to your point.
Yes but many partners increases the risk. Denying that is just a theory too. A stupid one! Only a fool belittles a risk to win an argument. The risk is there. It is a real risk. So is driving and so is cancer as you say.
But why add more unnecessary risks just to have sex with another person. What a pointless reason.
Why?
Insecure much?
Which goes back to my original point in this thread.......that I think those that ask "how many" are insecure.
No. People who come up with lots of reasons why they shouldnt do something are the insecure ones. Asking a question is curiosity. Answering the question is honesty. Evading the answer is insecurity. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/26/2009 9:47:32 PM | msmicki I know you've used the term insecure in about a hundred posts but all I can say is you're dead wrong, it has nothing to do with insecurity. Evading the question is what's insecure. Read my above post about the girl that couldn't remember how many guys she's been with. If you were secure with your past, yourself, and your sexuality you wouldn't be so terrified of the subject.
Some people that have certain views of sex want to only date people that have those SAME views of sex.....it's the SAME as any other subject. Finances, goals, religion, education, interests, politics, the list is endless. Why would sex be any different? I've never received a rational answer to that question yet.
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/27/2009 3:55:55 AM | M_Church, if your are carrier, it still requires disclosure.
Rita, if you don't see the point in sex then you wouldn't understand in general. Someone who doesn't think sex is that important in life would not undertand someone who enjoys sex on a daily basis or in a variety of ways and with a variety of people. It's like asking why drive a sports car if they are inherently more dangerous. If you hve to ask then the answer can't really be explained. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/27/2009 4:44:05 AM |
I dont think it is insecure to not want your partner hanging out with his or her exlovers. I am not wanting to make friends with my partners ex either. They are ex for a reason. If someone didnt tell me that the friend was an ex lover then they would be an ex too when I found out.
Not sure how we went from "running into" an ex.....to "hanging out" with an ex.....
but either is acceptable to me.
If I can't trust my partner.......it's not going to matter if it's someone he slept with prior to me.....or a stranger off the street. I refuse to be that insecure.
Yes but many partners increases the risk. Denying that is just a theory too. A stupid one! Only a fool belittles a risk to win an argument. The risk is there. It is a real risk. So is driving and so is cancer as you say.
But why add more unnecessary risks just to have sex with another person. What a pointless reason.
Where did I say more partners isn't a risk? I said even one partner can be a risk.
My point is.....I could have only slept with one man.....and still be bringing an STD to the new relationship.
msmicki I know you've used the term insecure in about a hundred posts but all I can say is you're dead wrong, it has nothing to do with insecurity. Evading the question is what's insecure.
and on this point, for me, you are dead wrong. I am in no way ashamed of my past, nor am I insecure about my past. I just honestly find it noone's business how many people I've slept with. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/27/2009 9:18:41 AM |
M_Church, if your are carrier, it still requires disclosure.
Actually, I agree with you... but does it happen?... NO..... particularly if you are unaware you have it... which for most people is during the first 6 months...
Only those who have a chronic HEP infection are life-long carriers... and can spread it... others are no longer infectious when the disease has been thrown off.
Also, if you get HEP A or B and throw it off, you now have immunity to it....or you can get a vaccine....
HEP C you can get again.... there is no vaccine against it....
In either A,B, or C, in some cases, you will never know you got the disease, your system will clear it and you will never know if you had it and passed it on... or if it did long term damage to your liver.... in some cases, liver damage from a HEP infection may take years to show up.... | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/27/2009 9:37:53 AM | Asking a question is curiosity. Answering the question is honesty. Evading the answer is insecurity.
I really like this, and it pretty much sums up my thinking on this particular topic.
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/27/2009 9:59:59 AM | | just be concerned with sexual diseases and AIDS. What a person tells you is a lie anyways. | |
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