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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/27/2009 10:33:54 AM |
Asking a question is curiosity. Answering the question is honesty. Evading the answer is insecurity.
I really like this, and it pretty much sums up my thinking on this particular topic.
Yeah, I like it too... Kind of sums it up both accurately and eloquently... evasion is never a good thing.... | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/27/2009 12:17:13 PM |
Yes but many partners increases the risk.
Knowing the number of former partners does not decrease the risk---that's what should matter to you. The body-count could be one, and that one former partner could have given an STD to your prospect. It's utterly pointless to rely on a body-count for risk-assessment in dating. Health screening is much preferable.
I don't care if you've asked 6000 people. I'm not those people and I don't live by taking votes on what I should do. You are engaging in a logical fallacy and doing it badly at that.
Nope, it's called inductive reasoning. I'm making a cogent argument that the "how many" question appears unsavory, tactless, and counterproductive in an intimate discussion. As with all cogent arguments, we can only ascertain a relative strength of argument based on the reactions of people we ask (as to the worthiness of requesting a body-count). You may be able to make a cogent argument that many women like the question; but the evidence of this thread, and of my own queries, is that most don't.
I'm really laughing at your petulance. No one gives a crap what you ask your dates. They should be asking you what frequency you get on those Mickey Mouse hats. When another guy acts/speaks like a dork to women, it potentially increases the options of the rest of us. Knock yourself out! | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/27/2009 1:09:07 PM | Nope, it's called inductive reasoning.
No, it's a logical fallacy called argumentum ad populum. Inductive reasoning is the proof of every case by stating the argument in such a way that it must be true for every case. Your argument is NOT true for every case because I am obviously a counter example. The existance of a single counter example renders your so-called induction fallacious.
I'm making a cogent argument that the "how many" question appears unsavory, tactless, and counterproductive in an intimate discussion. As with all cogent arguments, we can only ascertain a relative strength of argument based on the reactions of people we ask (as to the worthiness of requesting a body-count).
Your argument is obviously not cogent as it has failed to persuade anyone of its veracity. There are many in this thread who believe exactly the opposite of what you claim, so your argument is not even accepted by a clear majority.
You may be able to make a cogent argument that many women like the question; but the evidence of this thread, and of my own queries, is that most don't.
I've never said that women like nor dislike the question. You are again making something up out of whole cloth. What I've said is that the question has always come up and for those of us who do not think it's a big deal, it is nothing but a casual question. The concept of like/dislike is a non-sequitur. It's like asking if women like the question, ``What is your favorite color?'' It's just a question. Since you think it's a big deal, you'll have to explain how a simple question that has a factual answer can become a big deal. Facts have no morality. They are just facts. If you impose some morality on a fact, you should explain wjy it's a problem for you.
Personally, I think it's a lot more adult and secure to know those things and not care about them than it is to bury my head in the sand and pretend I wouldn't care about the answer if I knew it.
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/27/2009 1:52:30 PM |
Your argument is obviously not cogent as it has failed to persuade anyone of its veracity. There are many in this thread who believe exactly the opposite of what you claim, so your argument is not even accepted by a clear majority.
I didn't need to persuade anyone. Most were already persuaded of my contention, and there hasn't been an opposing list offered of body-count enthusiasts greater than the now eight women I've asked about this.  The problems of asking for a body-count are already agreed by most on the thread to be numerous and they far outweigh the merits of asking the question. There aren't "many" on the thread who believe exactly the opposite; but only several.
What I've said is that the question has always come up and for those of us who do not think it's a big deal, it is nothing but a casual question.
If a question appears to the listener to be unsavory, provocative, or odd, then that precludes the possibility of it being a casual question to the listener. Again, the overwhelming majority of thread posts support the contention that this question usually doesn't come across to a listener as a casual question. If a socially-inept guy were to ask a woman "So......have you ever been raped before?" the socially-inept guy might think it's a casual question, but his listener probably wouldn't think so, whether she actually answers the question or not. The body-count question, to a much-lesser extent, seems to have an off-putting effect on women, though many women will answer that question.
Not caring whether women, in general, like or dislike a certain question is your right---no one is questioning that----but that indifference may be problematic when trying to ascertain whether a question is "casual" or not. Like it or not, socially-skilled people concern themselves with the comfort-level of conversation. There are many ways to learn what someone is all about without asking off-the-wall, third-rail questions and scrutinizing for reactions. However, comfort and rapport are not a priority for every dater, and everyone understands that. 
The opinion of most posters here is that "how many?" is not a casual question, nor an effective question in a dating scenario. My argument has been, and is, that it's a pointless and ineffective question, for the reasons I gave many times. Yelling that "It works for me!" is relevant to yourself, but irrelevant to the strong majority here who disagree with you. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/27/2009 3:20:13 PM | I didn't need to persuade anyone.
Nor to dissuade. Again this is a discussion...
Most were already persuaded of my contention
"Most", is an exaggeration.
body-count enthusiasts
Again, the term "enthusiasts" is an exaggeration.
Like it or not, socially-skilled people concern themselves with the comfort-level of conversation.
I agree with this statement. But to assume that a person is socially inept for asking this question, is an assumption. Let us call it what it is. And a couple of people have resisted the idea of making assumptions. Which I totally agree with.
There are many ways to learn what someone is all about without asking off-the-wall, third-rail questions and scrutinizing for reactions.
I still don't understand this line of reasoning...I still don't know how it is an oddball, off-the-wall, third rail question...
However, comfort and rapport are not a priority for every dater, and everyone understands that.
Again, an assumption of someone who asks this question...
I'm really laughing at your petulance. No one gives a crap what you ask your dates. They should be asking you what frequency you get on those Mickey Mouse hats. When another guy acts/speaks like a dork to women, it potentially increases the options of the rest of us. Knock yourself out!
It is really sad when someone degenerates into an insulting behavior.
For me, personally, I was trying to bring a sense of levity to a discussion. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/27/2009 3:58:59 PM | | I don't particularly care for the question myself because I do think it causes problems but, I also think that I would rather know that someone has issues with my past up front rather than later. I'm not ashamed of my past or present so I suppose I would just laugh and ask if they were certain they wanted to know. At that, I would have to think about it. I could tell you every name and circumstance but I don't keep a running total. It's probably more than alot of people would be comfortable with and I'm ok with that. I treat this the same way as I treat the "am I the biggest you have had" question. Only ask if you truly want to know. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/27/2009 7:37:29 PM | | Irrelevant IMO. I'm not going to ask. I haven't been asked this question since I was 20 and it didn't matter then either. Just use protection. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/28/2009 8:02:09 AM |
just be concerned with sexual diseases and AIDS. What a person tells you is a lie anyways.
^^Straightforward and to the point, although not everyone will lie about their count----some will lie, and some will tell the truth. A couple of the women I asked about this did say they would be tempted to lie. Another said she would tell the guy to mind his own business. I'm up to 9 - 0, by the way--no one I have queried thought this was a question they'd like to be asked. It's an ineffective question in a dating scenario. Period. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/28/2009 8:06:30 AM | | Yeah ok spitfire that's all fine and dandy, but I'd love to talk to the women you were grilling. Again read my earlier post about the women that was scared to answer because she couldn't even remember how many she's been with. Some of the women you asked said they would be tempted to lie, why do you think that is? See that's very telling to me imo!! I would of had a lot of fun with them and left them tongue tied. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/28/2009 8:33:41 AM |
Straightforward and to the point, although not everyone will lie about their count----some will lie, and some will tell the truth. A couple of the women I asked about this did say they would be tempted to lie. Another said she would tell the guy to mind his own business. I'm up to 9 - 0, by the way--no one I have queried thought this was a question they'd like to be asked. It's an ineffective question in a dating scenario. Period.
Great, so not only might she have a high number she's a liar too... so tell me, why would anyone want her then?
Maybe your answers are in the 9-0 range because of the type of women you're asking?
In my life the question has come up a few times... and as far as I know, has been answered honestly... (sometimes with surprisingly high numbers) but then, I guess it depends on who you hang out with...
I've even been asked a few times too.... no problem... I told them.... they could then deal with it as they wish...
To me, big red flags are:
1... She's had so many she can't remember.... If sex was so casual that she can't remember who she fcuked, then she's treating it a little too casually for me...
2... She tells me it's none of my business. Fine. But then I move on. I'm not going to assume she has high or low numbers, but If she doesn't feel something is my business, and I do, then we're not compatible...
3... She lies. Oddly enough, if they lie, it usually does come out down the road...
4... She has an odd counting system. As one G/F said "I don't count the mistakes and the one night stands" ?!?!?!?!?!?!
5... She doesn't feel I need to know. What else is she going to feel I don't need to know! I won't have other people choosing what I need to know or not know... that's my business.
I don't particularly care for the question myself because I do think it causes problems but, I also think that I would rather know that someone has issues with my past up front rather than later. I'm not ashamed of my past or present so I suppose I would just laugh and ask if they were certain they wanted to know.
I agree. The part that bothers me most about the answers in this thread is the obvious undercurrent of shame or fear of being 'judged'.
If you're afraid of how society is going to look at what you're doing then YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT! Otherwise, just be honest and tell... people will either accept you, or not.... hiding the answer is just making it worse, now you're deceiving someone...
The comment that asking the question is a sign of insecurity is just so wrong... It's the insecure ones that can't or won't answer.... | |
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p~s
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Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 362 | |
| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/28/2009 6:21:01 PM |
Asking a question is curiosity. Answering the question is honesty. Evading the answer is insecurity.
I have a different take.
Asking the question is snoopy, Answering the question brings more questioning equally irrelevant to the current relationship.
WHY????????? Why does it matter who or how many someones been with before?
Even players are capable of settling down. A much more important and telling piece of info for me would not be how many, but how long have your committed relationships lasted. Somebody who can't last longer than a year or more in any of their past relationships makes me wonder, are really fickle or just plain difficult to be with? | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/29/2009 2:08:19 PM |
Asking the question is snoopy, Answering the question brings more questioning equally irrelevant to the current relationship.
WHY????????? Why does it matter who or how many someones been with before?
Good restatement of some earlier posts. There hasn't been a credible reason yet offered on this thread for asking for a body-count. Haven't yet talked to a normal, relationship-savvy individual in the real world who sees any merit in that question. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 8/29/2009 11:21:34 PM | | How many??? ...I kept count when it mattered to me ...when I was young enough to think my number made me more of a stud ...then I stopped counting... my number whatever it is is too high .. I tried to count them in my mind ..probably missed some as my number was a higher ratio to my age when I was half my age ...im 53 and my number is probably less than one per year ... my first was when I was 16 but from that time to the time I was 20 i probably made up the slack ... and till my first marriage when I was in my thirties i probably got ahead of my years then I slowed down except between relationships .. and even then not as much as in my early twenties ... so me saying I really dont remember ..dont mean my number is extremely that high ..I have just lived a long time ...sense the number meant anything to me except the one I was with at the time ...Grow up people .. If you have slept with one who you were not in a relationship with ...then you have been promiscuous at a point in your life ...how long or how many times dont matter ...every day we wake up with the opportunity to morally be a new person ... the past is the past ..let it Die ...I remember my first and the last ...between that it becomes sketchy...and less vivid than some books I have read | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 9/9/2009 12:11:59 AM |
If you're afraid of how society is going to look at what you're doing then YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT!
I don't believe in that concept (whether it applies to # you have had sex with or not). Say someone was very devout in their religion, but the Jimmy Carter type or the type that is very very devout but not preachy... but so many people in their community hastily judge folks reflexively in a really bad light if they're devout by itself -- they think they're the preachy type, case closed to them. Should that person not go to church so often, since they fear hasty false judgements by most others? No.
It's posing the question that's the problem. It means "Your number alone is going to tell me how likely you are going to just want me for sex and move on, do the next cute guy/girl who says hello to you, cheat on me in a relationship, or how many STDs you have. If I'm nice, which you may or may not be, I'll hear out a brief explanation, but by the end of the exchange, I'm going to make a quick judgement on you, as there's little I need to know. The # is the metric here."
If someone demands to know, then that's fine, like m_church said... if one person believes it's their business and the other person doesn't and it's a requirement to the person who does believe it is -- yeah, not going to work out.
For me personally, if I'm on a date with a gal, and in a convo about work & busyness, etc., she says "... and I haven't slept with someone... gosh, in like almost a year. Haven't really had time to date for the past couple years, and been so swamped..." I wouldn't even -care- to know. In the end, you find out whether they're a prude or a freak or a bigtime-ultra-flirt or whatever without a need for a #. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 9/9/2009 5:45:10 AM | There hasn't been a credible reason yet offered on this thread for asking for a body-count.
Neither has there been a credible reason to hide the number or lie about it... nor has there been a credible reason why this this 'number' should be buried in the past....
The reasons why someone wants to know have been posted, just because they are not 'credible' to you or to some others doesn't mean they are not credible to those who do want to know.... | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 9/9/2009 11:04:13 AM | m_church,
Neither has there been a credible reason to hide the number or lie about it...
Here's something.... Why is it 'hiding' the number? What if your parents asked you? Or your boss?
Well, you would say, it's none of their business to them, but not a girl on a first date? Girlfriend? Wife? So I think that's the main point here -- IS it one's business or isn't it? If it's not one's business, it's an unfair question, and the one demanding an answer is not deserving of one, and the person is not 'hiding' anything. If it IS one's business, then that person would be 'hiding' or possibly 'lying' if they don't give it out.
So it all boils down to this: Is it someone's business to know? And -why-? By default, it's not. It's not to your parents, your boss, your cat, your bro, your neighbor, etc.
Spitfire brings up a great point that if the # has some volume to it, it's only going to beg personal questions that really does dig into a less convtroversial assessment that it's not your business, and in the end -- you can't really get a real assessment because you weren't there, and it's just going to get in the way of things and not looking at the present and who she IS standing in front of you.
Being devil's advocate, that may be true in many situations -- but not in all. Someone can say "Yep, I'm a virgin", and well, we would want to know that, right? Or "I slept with over 200 dudes, and I'm 21". In super-extremes, I think you can tell what track they're on, and it's not just about the past it lays but the present, too.
So why do I need to know? Why am I even asking is the real question, right? If I ask what's your favorite color to a gal, it may just be conversation. But if I told her beforehand that I'm into personality-judgment (like astrology) based on what one's favorite color is, she would have every right to "hide" that, because it's unfair for me to ask. Itd gaurentee a false/hasty judgement.
Also, timeframe comes into effect. If I approach a gal at a bar, and say hi, we chat, and I ask her the # - is it my business? NO. How about a wholesome first date? I'd say no. We begin dating and you know sex is around the corner sometime soon? Maybe.
Why would we 'need' to know? I think it'd be imparative to know if she was a virgin, and one's sexually active, right? Or if she sleepS around.
I believe it's not our business about one's genuine past -- if it's truly the past and not an indicator of the present & future. Some will say that if a gal sucked 37 d!cks in from high school to college (see movie 'Clerks'), that in her 30s, she's likely to suck a random guy's d!ck if she's in the mood. Others will say she's 'tainted', even if she's been celebate for 10 years since.
I think one would want to know if it's "just the past" thing or "recent history with a trail into the present and into the future"... but the problem is, one's going to make their own judgements about that and many times (not all) it is setting up for a hasty emotional answer.
Personally -- I like observing a gal's body language and everything between the lines on how she is, acts, and the stories she tells about herself. It isn't just about one's sex life of course, but you can glean a lot about her and over some time, know if she's likely to cheat on you or bounce over to any dude if you two were to ever have a 'tiff. A lot of times, you can tell how open or closed they about having sex through conversation -- and that's the real reason behind one asking the # question, right? | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 9/9/2009 2:09:06 PM | | I'd say 50 at that age is too many. However, if the person is careful not plagued with societal norms go for it. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 9/12/2009 4:44:34 PM | | personally i will only go for a woman who has had many partners, nothing worse than a bad and boring lover, the more experience the better its the 21 century | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 9/13/2009 11:32:39 AM | A person is entitled to whatever they want as long as they and their partners are being safe. Its completely subjective.
^^^I have to agree with this. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 9/16/2009 9:02:39 PM | If a man were to ask me, I would tell him that I would ask the same of you if you really wanted to know (that's if we have been dating and have not had sex yet and he asked the question). I would ask why he needed to know that information, and if he answered it's out of curiosity (I would take offence to it), however, if he said he is concerned about health, then I would suggest for both of us to get a health report validating us both healthy and without disease.
If he says no to my suggestion, then that leaves me offended with him prying into my past which should be left in the past and he should be concerned with the present. Not unless I had something to say that would jeapordize his health that was in my past, then I would oblige pertinent information without him even asking me.
However, to amuse him with his question, I would have two pieces of paper where he writes his "number of sex partners", and I on the other. I would then proceed to tell him that if he had a higher count than mines, then our dating is over because I do not want someone who has a higher count than I do. This question is not a positive question to ask, it will leave either individual's judging the other and the potential of having the intimacy cause you'll be seeing their sexual number when you have sex and could be totally disgusted by it. (For 43 yrs old woman and for a man of same age, the ratio would likely be much higher for the man, so he most likely will not benefit for asking the question.....not with me anyways, so he better make sure he wants to ask or lose the opportunity to be judged by me). If he's past counting his fingers and toes, I'm already getting turned off.
I don't like the fact that he asked in the first place without good reason but out of curiosity? Ok, is curiosity aroused because he wants to judge that number or he is insecure? I don't understand the why factor unless it's for health (and in that case, we should go both get our health records to show each other). | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 9/16/2009 9:55:50 PM |
I would then proceed to tell him that if he had a higher count than mines, then our dating is over because I do not want someone who has a higher count than I do.
I would see that as a fair answer, then I would write my number down. If mine was higher, then I would hold you to your word and we'd stop dating....
This question is not a positive question to ask, it will leave either individual's judging the other and the potential of having the intimacy cause you'll be seeing their sexual number when you have sex and could be totally disgusted by it.
It's been my experience through life, that imagination is often times worse than reality..... and hiding from reality, does not change that reality....
(For 43 yrs old woman and for a man of same age, the ratio would likely be much higher for the man, so he most likely will not benefit for asking the question.....not with me anyways, so he better make sure he wants to ask or lose the opportunity to be judged by me).
An interesting point, but one not always valid... A long time friend of mine is still with his first and only love.... he's 53 years old.... I know other men in their late 30's and 40's for whom their numbers might be of just one hand not require even counting the thumb.... not all men have high numbers, as is true also for women.... | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 9/16/2009 10:44:02 PM | Sure I would stop dating him, he's already turned me off to the question. Because he wants to poke his nose in my personal past, I'm going to play the game, and by that point, there is no interest.
Imagination is needed for creativity and for change. Imagination cannot hurt you because it's just images and ideas but reality can because of your body's requirements and how to resolve your emotions by how you react (heart). If you are talking about telling the truth and not lying about the number, it really depends on the individual....some lie and some don't because you've put them on a spot which isn't really none of anyone's business so long as you are safe. Also depends, some truth isn't worth telling! That's why we have the ability to lie. (Imagination and prayer together may be unsettling if that is what you mean by "worst" than reality, however, that is a temporal disturbance which gradually heals (gets better), patience and blessings).
If you are going to a more deeper subject on "Reality", this is not the place for discussion but in Science and Philosophy.
True on your last note. I agree there are those who have less than one hand to their count. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 9/17/2009 8:22:46 AM | Before my boyfriend and I had sex, we both had testing for STI's done.
As far as I am concerned, that removed the need for questions about our pasts. We will continue to get to know each other, and I am sure that we will find things out.....but it will be about what we each have learned from our past that makes us who we are now.
It works for us- because we both feel that way. It is probably a compatability issue- something that should be important to either both parties- or neither. | |
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| How many is too many?
Posted: 9/17/2009 8:35:43 AM | I think what matters is who you ARE with, not who you WERE with.
(This is excluding the questiong of STD's, speaking only of emotions here.) | |
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