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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 7:54:18 AM | Timothy Paul;
I would tend VERY MUCH to agree with you but I do see your reasoning as a little narrow.
I absolutely agree that both men and women "need to be needed".
It has however been my personal experience that men (in a general way) see what they can give monetarily as...if not the single source of their value, then the most important one. Having been "criticized" for having "no needs", I point out that INDEED....I DO have needs, they're just not "needs" that a man can throw a check at.
While I don't "need" a man to pay my bills or fix my kitchen sink....I DO need a man for affection, companionship, emotional support, intellectual stimulation, etc.
We want to be making contributions that would be sorely missed if we were gone. Once again, I totally agree with you! Unfortunately, until men stop looking at themselves as nothing more than a paycheck and handiman....THEY will be left with ONLY those women who are more than happy to accept WHAT they provide...but who don't really give a hoot about them as decent, considerate, loyal, loving, caring MEN. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 7:57:09 AM |
Just read the last three posts to this thread. They were written by the following fish:
--Janet4ever
--zangie
--ItsMargo
Wow! Thanks for the awesome posts
I totally agree! You ladies said it.
Zangie...Yes....Idealism is lovely...but we must live in a realisitic world to understand what really goes on. Then things start to happen....possibly wonderful things.
Margo...perfectly expressed. Your sweetie is very lucky to have you. Keep up the racoon fight.
Janet4ever....you have always gotten it... | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 8:04:31 AM |
Wouldn't just GETTING a man be easier than comping up w/ all of these convoluted reasons as to why you don't have one,ladies?
If just "getting a Mmaayun" was the issue, there would be no need for this thread. Any woman can "get" a man, but what man, what does he look like, who IS he, what does he stand for? Is he mature, intelligent, kind does he have depth of character and is he rich in spirit?
Ever heard of Sadie Hawkins day?? That's what this statement reminded me of. Chase that piece of meat down and do the dirty or latch on with the talons and tether him to the porch like a good dog.
I want an equal, someone with qualities I can admire and respect...everything else follows, great sex, great intimacy, devotion, loyalty, fun, food and frolicing. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 8:23:59 AM | | I think most men want the feeling of being needed without actually being needed. That way their ego is fed, but they don`t have to put any effort into the relationship. All alot of women are doing is accepting this, taking any kind of responsibilities off men and realizing that it is an ego thing and not a loving or service thing. So in saying that we don`t need a man, it is a blow to his ego, that he has no value, and that value is what he wants, without any effort put into it. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 8:33:53 AM |
The only way a woman will need a man is when he's been around for years and she GROWS to need him specifically.
Ummm... yeah. That's what we're talking about.
Men are misinterpreting women who say this, that's what this is about.
That was the whole point of this thread was to point out to women the perception men have regarding these comments. The miscommunication comes from women thinking men simply do not have feelings on this level and that their ideas of need are cavemanic in intent meaning that we think women need us to open jars and fix cars. No... we think much deeper than you care to give us credit for, and therefore you alienate yourselves from those who dare to reach those depths, instead swimming up atop trying to compete with those in the shallow waters. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 8:52:27 AM |
Ummm... yeah. That's what we're talking about.
Doesn't seem so. What I see is a lot of men wanting women to need men generally, not specifically. Since you'd have to be with one quite a while before you began to need him, discussion of needing one before you've even met a man you like is cart WAY before horse.
Therefore before a woman gets involved with anyone, her perception of the "need" men are looking for would have to be non-emotional. What else could it be if she's single and has no prospects?
That was the whole point of this thread was to point out to women the perception men have regarding these comments. The miscommunication comes from women thinking men simply do not have feelings on this level and that their ideas of need are cavemanic in intent meaning that we think women need us to open jars and fix cars. No... we think much deeper than you care to give us credit for, and therefore you alienate yourselves from those who dare to reach those depths, instead swimming up atop trying to compete with those in the shallow waters.
Well, hey women make that accouncement as a disclaimer to men complaining that's all women want. We're not misunderstanding anything, it's a conditioned response to what men are saying in the first place. You may not have said this, but a lot of your brethren have. Browse through one of the many "who pays on a date?" threads on this site. Men repeatedly accuse women of wanting men for money. We don't make that stuff up...it's pretty realistic. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 9:14:03 AM |
What I see is a lot of men wanting women to need men generally, not specifically. Since you'd have to be with one quite a while before you began to need him, discussion of needing one before you've even met a man you like is cart WAY before horse.
I felt the same need for having children and being a mother. Long before I got married and pregnant , I knew I wanted to be a mother to fulfill a need inside of me that no other relationship would likely replace.
It is this same type of longing for a man that stays with me -- to be a couple again -- regardless how well I manage alone. I have no idea who he is now... but I miss him... and I miss being an "us". | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 9:19:12 AM |
Therefore before a woman gets involved with anyone, her perception of the "need" men are looking for would have to be non-emotional. What else could it be if she's single and has no prospects?
The same thing I need a woman for. My grandfather had 2 successful marriages (one ended with the death of my grandmother, and the other ended with his death) and he experienced a great deal of happiness in life while in both. What those two women gave to him is something I need in order to experience the level of happiness he experienced in his life.
Like I say... it's a matter of choosing the depth in which you wish to swim. I can survive without a woman, but that doesn't change the fact that I need one to take my life and level of happiness to the next level. And I'm not going to split hairs over a or the because I know what I need. That arguement is for people who put too much value in their public image. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 9:24:28 AM |
Well, hey women make that accouncement as a disclaimer to men complaining that's all women want. We're not misunderstanding anything, it's a conditioned response to what men are saying in the first place. You may not have said this, but a lot of your brethren have. Browse through one of the many "who pays on a date?" threads on this site. Men repeatedly accuse women of wanting men for money. We don't make that stuff up...it's pretty realistic.
How is it that in this example, you are claiming that it's conditioning? How then, is it not conditioning for men to feel that way about women? Your final comment seems to suggest that only your side doesn't "make that stuff up" and the other does. Further, a conditioned response does not automatically preclude a misunderstanding. Also, could you please explain to me your statement re: "what men are saying in the first place"? That statement would put all the blame completely on men, saying in effect that there way absolutely no issue until the first of us fire-worshipping, dung-flinging club-draggers created it.
I'm not trying to upset you, but to me, these things just don't add up. Am I missing something here? | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 9:27:45 AM | Holy crap.... 16 pages of rhetoric and here I am to add to the scuttlebutt.
It is abundantly clear (to me at least) that we are a confused lot when it comes to the roles one plays in a relationship. We should erase the gender specifics and look at the commonalities. What I see in this thread is a whole lot of people trying to justify a stance on something extremely complex.
The common denominator to almost each and every response on here is that our thoughts are expressed to justify our position on how "we" fit in a relationship. (Guess this is good as it is the relationships forum).
Let’s go back a little bit. Remember playing "house" as a child? Mimicking our parent’s behavior? (I found it hard to smoke and talk on the phone at 4... thanks Mom) But really, haven't we all been conditioned somewhat by our environments? What we witnessed at an early age plays a huge role in what we have become (yah, I have become a Mom... talk about getting the role playing all fuked up)
Either you witnessed healthy relationships (or a reasonable facsimile) or you saw some major dysfunction. Depending on what you experienced at the early stage of your development, my bet is that you have found yourself in eerily similar situations through the course of your life.
What many my age and younger witnessed, was the changing of traditional roles. Many in my group had parents that split up, and then went on to either latch on to another, or go it alone despite the difficulties. Depending on your particular situation, you may have witnessed your Mother working her azz off to support you and your siblings, look to be with another man for support, or any other myriad of scenarios. Witnessing this, may have created a respect for your parent’s tenacity, or scared you out of wanting to see failure like theirs in your own relationships.
Whatever your background, you were molded into who you are. You may be fiercely independent, extremely needy, a healthy mix... whatever. Luckily for you and everyone else, you have the ultimate choice to be whoever you want to be. You can create whatever persona you like. THAT SAID, my bet is that you still have some things that are subconsciously affecting you now. As you move forward and have new interplay (remember playing house... now you have to do it for real) you will recognize some of those things that you witnessed as a child coming into play as an adult.
I am rambling, I know, so I will try and put this into a clearer perspective.
We are a sum of the parts with which we are made up of. We live this complicated life without a "directions" manual. Actually we write our own. For some, they choose to build something alone; others like to share the work...
Speaking specifically to the topic..
If you find solace in independence.... Cool, go it alone. If you want someone else there to share your life with... Cool. Diversity is what makes it all work. Stop worrying about how someone else does it. Perfect your own directions manual. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 9:39:51 AM |
I felt the same need for having children and being a mother. Long before I got married and pregnant , I knew I wanted to be a mother to fulfill a need inside of me that no other relationship would likely replace.
Can't say I have ever heard of that. While I know women who always wanted to be mothers, and were good ones when the time came - I never heard of needing to become one. That almost sounds like who you are would depend on taking care of a child you create for the purpose of wanting to take care of it. Odd...
It is this same type of longing for a man that stays with me -- to be a couple again -- regardless how well I manage alone. I have no idea who he is now... but I miss him... and I miss being an "us".
I can only miss people I've known and no longer see. I can't miss someone I've never met. I come from a single mother and a grandmother who was widowed, so to me men were nice but not requirements. I have dated men and gotten involved and felt a need for them once I was in it, but can't identify with needing a man I don't have and never met...unless of course, it was to fill a gap, or be taken care of where which man it was didn't matter. To me survival is the only need you can have in the beginning, before you've made a connection. You don't have to merely survive, but it's good to know you can. However until someone's around long enough for attachment and merging of lives, need is a bit of a strong word. Like, care for, crazy about, maybe even love makes sense, but to me need implies a strong bond. That doesn't happen overnight, and certainly not before you've met someone.
How is it that in this example, you are claiming that it's conditioning? How then, is it not conditioning for men to feel that way about women?
Feel what way about women, exactly?
Your final comment seems to suggest that only your side doesn't "make that stuff up" and the other does.
Where did I say the other side makes anything up? Women mean what they mean when they say this. Men seem to take it to mean something other than it's intended. Where's the confusion?
Further, a conditioned response does not automatically preclude a misunderstanding. Also, could you please explain to me your statement re: "what men are saying in the first place"? That statement would put all the blame completely on men, saying in effect that there way absolutely no issue until the first of us fire-worshipping, dung-flinging club-draggers created it.
Women would not want to make sure men know this if they weren't constantly hearing that women ARE out to do this. The fact that a woman doesn't need a man to take care of her should be a positive thing. Again, have you seen any of these threads as an example of avoidance of gold diggers/women who seek money/etc? Don't tell me you've never seen it. Women react to that when they say "don't worry, that's not what I am out to do".
I'm not trying to upset you, but to me, these things just don't add up. Am I missing something here?
I'm not upset, I'm just kind of unsure why you don't get that. Yes you seem to be missing something. "I don't need a man" means I'm not looking for someone to take care of me - people don't try to qualify things that no one accuses them of to begin with. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 10:12:26 AM |
Again, have you seen any of these threads as an example of avoidance of gold diggers/women who seek money/etc? Don't tell me you've never seen it. Women react to that when they say "don't worry, that's not what I am out to do". LOL! you forgot to add that in those threads men also assert that 100% of women who deny that's what they're out to do....are the ones most certainly out to do it!
If a woman dates men who earn more than they do...then they're gold diggers....if they date men who earn less...then they're too "independent". LOL! good Lord is there any hope??? LOL! | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 10:42:01 AM |
Men repeatedly accuse women of wanting men for money. We don't make that stuff up...it's pretty realistic.
I don't listen to any of the men who say this.
It belongs in the same camp as emotionally unavailable....and the same camp as some women who say they don't need or want a man in their lives...because they have been burnt badly by too many men.
I meet a man and I see what he is like. If he has been burnt too much by women in his past (his bad picker choices...not the woman's fault), he will NOT give of himself for me at all. He will Not try to impress me, not try to court me. In fact, it will be more about him and his (starving) needs. And...the big barometer?? It's his anger/attitude about money. Most men equate money and material possessions as part of themselves, THEIR HEART AND SOUL and when they have given it to a woman who in the end ditches them, they are extremely angry. In fact, they want it back!!! So...in my experience I walk a wide circle around men who still have this baggage.
My experience with men who are open to love and have been loving in my relationships are quite giving and generous. It is part of giving their heart, too. You know...bring her the biggest piece of the buffalo he caught.. The little boy who gives a little girl he likes something precious that is his...or gives her a flower.
Watch little ones in their first innocent throes of puppy love. It is male/female at it's most basic. He does all sorts of things to engage her interest. She just sits back and smiles and smirks...and it makes his day. She has paid attention to him. Now he feels big and important. Men are not that much different.
Men will walk a hundred miles for you if you are the One.
Men have been getting angry at women who say they don't want or need them. "They are too independent." That is most women's reaction to being hurt too much.
Picture the little boy/girl scenario again. Another little girl likes a little boy. She tries everything to get his attention. She gives him her lunches, she follows him around, does things to try and impress him....he happily takes. She's in 7th heaven!! Then she sees him showing off for the little blonde who isn't aware of him. She sees him giving her things. She gets hurt feelings. She closes herself off from him when she sees he's not interested in her at all....only the little blonde...who eventually gives him that smile because he has impressed her.
Now...this isn't much different than what women do today...even mature older ones!
So..now we have hurt men and we have hurt women...KEEPING THEMSELVES CLOSED.
Men who keep accounts..and harp ad nauseum about golddiggers, money, et al.
Women who say they are "independent" ...shout from the rooftops that they are...but when they have a man they do everything for him. Why? Still in denial...they try to go deep and idealistic..."I just want to show him pure love...that I don't need him for anything. I am capable."
Say what???
Men want to feel needed...yes! The men who are open to love. Let him show you what he can do for you...what he wants to do for you!
(Secretly...we know we are all capable...but ...jeez..let the man feel that he is needed in your life!)
Then it's fun and good! | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 11:20:02 AM | ^^^I don't know about any of this. I'm sure there are some women who are independent specifically because they've been hurt, I also believe there are some women who are just plain independent based on how they were brought up, or based on their personalities. Not everything comes as a defense mechanism. Some women don't expect to be rescued and also will not dote - I myself dont really need to be needed, so I don't identify with someone who does, at least not before he's been around a couple years.
I don't listen to any of the men who say this.
I do agree that men OR women who complain too much or who declare something to the extreme are doing so for a reason - no one throws an unsolicited sales pitch or defensive argument without having some issues. I don't pay much attention to what anyone says either when it comes to my personal life...and as someone gets to know me, they will find out I am the way I am in due time, I see no reason to announce it. I do, however know women who do pay attention to a lot of this stuff, and who use this disclaimer out of fear some guy will mistake their interest for something else, regardless of what most men actually think - based on a lot of misogynistic things they hear from men who DO have issues.
LOL! you forgot to add that in those threads men also assert that 100% of women who deny that's what they're out to do....are the ones most certainly out to do it!
Well of course, it's that usual brick wall argument where they will accuse women of something and then say "well of course SOME women aren't going to admit this here"...that basically gives them no opp to have to see it from any other side.
If a woman dates men who earn more than they do...then they're gold diggers....if they date men who earn less...then they're too "independent". LOL! good Lord is there any hope??? LOL!
Apparently not. What men NEED to do here is realize that women MIGHT be interested in them and not what they do, or have, or offer. It's foreign, but it can be realized if men understood that it's better to be wanted for who you are, nothing else. Providing what she needs can be interchangeable; it only takes another man with more of that need, bigger, better to be replaced. A woman who wants you for YOU makes it permanent. You can't be replaced, because no other man is who YOU are.
You have no control on whether or not somebody "settles" for you.
They aren't likely to tell you that...and most people while they know deep inside that may be the case,really aren't going to ruin what for them may be true love, by addressing the issue.
Most of the time it's pretty obvious when someone would rather be somewhere else, but I think my lack of caring if I end up in a relationship badly enough to miss the signs, so I think I'm good.
And I also disagree about the "alone" part. While family and friends are cornerstones, they also have lives apart from you and usually another person with whom they share it.
They should have lives apart from you, everyone should have their own thing going on - no one should have to entertain anyone. You enjoy people when they are around, and you have your life when they're not. Romantic or otherwise.
Co-workers and acquaintances are (to me at least) people that only pass in and out of your life and are really poor substitutes for the substantial interaction found in a healthy (or even unhealthy) relationship.
A healthy relationship that benefits you enough to be in, yes - an unhealthy one, afraid not. I'd rather be single forever than in an unhealthy relationship. Again, no point.
Single may not = equal alone in YOUR dictionary...but to most people spending an inordinate amount of time alone because you refuse to see a life that doesn't "meet" a narrow range of criteria that you personally have set, is a sad and painfully prospect.
No, technically the word "alone" means no other human beings or pets. Solitary. It's not about not having an SO, its about not being in contact with anyone else for long periods of time. Single is not involved which people like to call alone, because it sounds better.
While that should never make anybody desperate..that should make them realistic about how their life in going to go and what legacy they leave behind.
You can leave a legacy behind by being a good person in your community, among other things. You don't have to be in a relationship to leave a legacy. If anything you and your SO will die around the same time if you end up staying together. If you want legacy, pass stuff down to people who will outlive you long enough for it to matter.
If middle-aged women want to be somebody's mother that calls them frequently w/ unhelpful and judgmental advice..or somebody's dotty old cat lady of an aunt...then more power to you.
This would be....the "sentence" women who aren't dependent on men will "have no choice" but to live out? Not sure what you mean by any of that. Cats and nieces have nothing to do with romantic choices.
Most middle-aged men (at least the ones w/ social skills) aren't looking to go that route...and thanks to evolution giving us a shorter lifespan...most of us will not have to...
Last I heard, people are living longer than they used to. And I know men who both have cats and are uncles. Again, I have no idea what this has to do with your argument. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 11:22:27 AM | Msg 359:
I stated:
And honestly,if people look at a relationship that they were in that the SO died more closely, it probably wasn't as happy as memories make it to be.
You replied:
Ah, now the real deal begins to surface. A bitter man who can't get a date, blaming everyone else for his lack of sucess.
Two things:
1) Your response makes me think that neither one of us knows what you are talking about,ma'am
2) How could you possibly know what my dating abilities are? I'm a good looking Black man w/ a home,a job and no legal issues. I actually have to turn women away.
Sorry to disappoint you,though.
Msg 360
I stated:
And I'm sure that this will bring the old "I won't settle" statement from somebody.It's always amusing that people who won't "settle" seem to forget that somebody is very likely "settling" for them.
You replied:
To that I say I'd rather be single forever than have someone settle for me. What's the point? No one should settle - if you enjoy your own company, why have less of a good time just to pair off with someone (most likely because others think you should)? Someone who doesn't make your life worse or actually adds to the happiness it already is should be the only solution IF you're going to travel thru life with someone at all.
Like I stated earlier,it would be easier to live your life to best of your ability WITH somebody than it would be to make endless excuses of why being alone is better.
No one is alone - lots of people are single. Alone is having no friends, no family, no neighbors, coworkers, aquaintances, no strangers they might run into. It's essentially solitary confinement, and not many live that way outside prison.
Single does not = alone. Not by a long shot. Sounds nice and dramatic,tho.
Anyway, "single" is better than dating just anyone, or someone you're not happy with. Single MIGHT be better for some, and not great for others. Everyone is different about this.
You have no control on whether or not somebody "settles" for you.
They aren't likely to tell you that...and most people while they know deep inside that may be the case,really aren't going to ruin what for them may be true love, by addressing the issue.
And I also disagree about the "alone" part. While family and friends are cornerstones, they also have lives apart from you and usually another person with whom they share it.
Co-workers and acquaintances are (to me at least) people that only pass in and out of your life and are really poor substitutes for the substantial interaction found in a healthy (or even unhealthy) relationship.
Single may not = equal alone in YOUR dictionary...but to most people spending an inordinate amount of time alone because you refuse to see a life that doesn't "meet" a narrow range of criteria that you personally have set, is a sad and painfully prospect.
While that should never make anybody desperate..that should make them realistic about how their life in going to go and what legacy they leave behind.
If middle-aged women want to be somebody's mother that calls them frequently w/ unhelpful and judgmental advice..or somebody's dotty old cat lady of an aunt...then more power to you.
Most middle-aged men (at least the ones w/ social skills) aren't looking to go that route...and thanks to evolution giving us a shorter lifespan...most of us will not have to... | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 12:09:50 PM | I forgot to add this to my response.
They aren't likely to tell you that...and most people while they know deep inside that may be the case,really aren't going to ruin what for them may be true love, by addressing the issue.
I would address the issue if it was me, seems to me that true love wouldn't be the case if I felt someone in fact was settling for me. But I'd hope that like myself, no one would bother if they weren't 100 percent into it, or it'd be obvious it was a half-azz effort. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 12:24:57 PM |
Well, hey women make that accouncement as a disclaimer to men complaining that's all women want. We're not misunderstanding anything, it's a conditioned response to what men are saying in the first place. You may not have said this, but a lot of your brethren have. Browse through one of the many "who pays on a date?" threads on this site. Men repeatedly accuse women of wanting men for money. We don't make that stuff up...it's pretty realistic.
WomanInProgress, I do believe, upon rereading the quoted piece, that I was misinterpreting what you wrote, somehow misreading what you were saying. Not misreading as in getting any words incorrect; misreading as in making flawed connections.
I appreciate you taking the time to address my questions, and I think that the point you made in response regarding women needing to counter the perception is a good one. I think it valuable to remember though, that years of hearing a frequent, consistent and strong message are not undone by the sincere comments of one honest woman.
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 1:09:20 PM |
I think it valuable to remember though, that years of hearing a frequent, consistent and strong message are not undone by the sincere comments of one honest woman.
I'd have to argue with that. I've changed my views on many things just by hearing from men on these forums. I actually post to learn and not "hear" myself post.
I could come up with plenty of reasons to go on and on about how men are so sexually charged, but I would only make myself go crazy and sound bitter to others. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 3:52:50 PM | OP....I want a man in my life. I don't need a man in my life. Can you tell the difference? I've been self-supporting for the better part of my adult life, I can do my own home renovations, I have adapted to life without a man around in the home quite well out of necessity. Do I make men look elsewhere because I'm not dependent on them for my happiness, my financial well-being, my emotional health? If so, that is super fine by me.
In truth, I think it is when we stop "needing" someone to complete us that we are actually ready to be with someone in a healthy relationship. The man I am with now appreciates that about me much more than the needy person I was 20 years ago when we first dated. Our relationship (so far) is much more balanced and healthy than the one we had over 20 years ago......
If you need a woman to need you in order to love a woman, I would suggest that your self-esteem needs some checking on because you are giving your power to that woman to make you feel like a man. If you define yourself by how much others need you, it is time to spend some time alone and get one with feeling good about who you are defined by YOU and nobody else. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 4:05:25 PM | All i know is I WANT a good man in my life......
I've had a few experiences where the guy was very unsupportive of me because I'm independent, I have my own set of friends and I enjoy being by myself at times... and I'm very disappointed that there are men that will make an effort to put me down just so they can feel superior, because probably they feel that they have to be needed, that without them I cannot survive.... I'm just waiting for that man to come along, one who doesn't want to be needed rather loves to be wanted and loved by me....
The Prophet (Kahlil Gibran)
On Marriage
You were born together,
and together you shall be forevermore.
You shall be together when the white wings
of death scatter your days.
Aye, you shall be together even in the
silent memory of God.
But let there be spaces in your togetherness,
And let the winds of the heavens dance between you.
Love one another, but make not a bond of love.
Let it rather be a moving sea between
the shores of your souls.
Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf.
Sing and dance together and be joyous,
but let each of you be alone,
Even as the strings of a lute are alone
though they quiver with the same music.
Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping.
For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.
And stand together, yet not too near together.
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress
grow not in each other's shadow. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 4:46:21 PM | I totally agree with Kayleegirl, it is not that a man isn't wanted or cared for dearly it just that "a need" is something that no one should go into a relationship thinking, feeling, or wanting. Isn't that selfish? I feel if one concentrate only on the needing side of things, you might just miss out on all the great things. Whatever a man could do in this world a woman can, so there should be no reason for a woman to "need" a man. A want is so much better than a need  | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/16/2009 5:19:24 PM | | Timothy Paul, my thinking on this post is that women who make that statement is really in a state of denial, they have either been hurt in the pass and are trying to cover or protect there self now. Women may not Need men, but i bet most want an man in there life..with or with out them admitting to it ,men fill an need for us..in many ways. Plus it was what the Lord intended for the Two sexs, to compliment each other..to join in marriage, to help one another.What would the world be like with out Man and Women?????? Who here would really like to find out???? | |
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