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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/17/2009 5:38:40 PM | women love their shoes,their jewlries, their cheese-cake (of course) ,their gold fish their pets,( their kids ,of course) girlfriends ( I don't know about that) their gay friends ( really?) their TV shows and they not only LOVE all of those things,they NEED them,but will keep THOSE things,* but toss a good man on the refuse pile? ( of course change for a better one ),lol*if he doesn't get her the thing she REALLY wants for Christmas ?
MY HEART goes for you capitano blaugh, about the discription of your exes, forgive them for throwing a good man like you in a refuse pile ,I bet their pretty head is clouded with to much
 lol, I will pick you up , in all the refuse piles even the sh1ttest pile and I will be the judge myself if you are really a good man, that I can part with my DIAMOND JEWELRIES just to have YOU....  | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/17/2009 6:09:53 PM | No, it's men taking a phrase at "face value". That's cool as long as men are ok with the fact that it will cause friction, or misunderstanding, or less dates.
You mean, acquiesce....
Oh, and I guess you missed coming to the conclusion that would I find people that banal and glib, to be non date worthy...
Men are not the masters of direct communication
This is a strawman.
I never said, nor implied men were the masters of anything. I simply stated the fact that men are berated for being blunt and succinct when they communicate with women. You were too busy with your strawman to acknowledge that fact....
IMO, it would be about the same as a man putting the disclaimer in his profile that he doesn't "need" a woman for any domestic purposes, or emotional purposes, which would imply that all he really wants is to have sex with her. Honestly, less women would be offended by that than you think.
That's bull...
Your taking offense to that might indicate you'd rather move her in and pay all her bills to feel useful.
Wow....you must be new around here, if you think for a minute that I'd ever give a woman like that the time of day....much less pay her bills...
Either way, stop speculating and casting aspersions on how pathetic and desperate you think I am, shall we?....
Being self sufficient and independent (or any such banal declaration such as "honesty" ) should be demonstrated and not declared. So should everything.
Then we're agreed.
Good luck waiting for everyone to act it and not declare it, especially around here.
I have zero expectations that you can fix stupid.
That would be stupid.... | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/17/2009 6:21:35 PM | Hi All,
I promised to google up what I could on the connection between the "I don't need a man" attitude and emotionally unavailability. I found nothing. In post # 434, flowerforce who is a psychologist says she isn't aware of any studies indicating a connection between the two. Thanks flowerforce for adding your expertise to this thread! :-)
Sincerely,
Timothy Paul | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/17/2009 9:13:59 PM |
despite the numerous requests I've made over the years, you have still not sent me pictures of your ass in a thong or fishnets avec garters, so all bets are off at this point.
yes, but i did send you some pics of my velvet curtains. I just figured they werent quite the right texture for ya. I tell ya what, as soon as you zip me off some pics of your ass in a thong, i will zip my ass thong pics to you. we can want each other, need each other and dissapoint the hell out of each other at Christmas time. | |
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| Flawed Logic
Posted: 7/17/2009 11:26:51 PM | .... at least that would be honest. Then, he'd have the opportunity to roll over and be a fvcking whipped pu$$y without trying to figure the whole WANT/NEED crap so many broads are bubbling about here
gee capitano, how do you really feel? :)
OP,
There are so many conflicting views we women hear.
On the one hand we hear a man needs to have his contributions needed; and at the same token we are told men utterly resent us taking from them as if it is our right.
so if we say we will take, we are entitled. if we say we don't need to take, we are independent, man-hating whatevers who have all but cut men out of our lives altogether.
What is it we're supposed to say?
Like others, I can't speak for anyone but myself but THINK this is shared by more than a few.
In the past women were literaly dependent on men for their very livelihood, their support and their income. Women worked hard but were not paid a dime for it; and were basically treated as if they were "kept" by the man; even though she worked hard 24/7 with no days off, often little appreciation for what she did and no respect for her contribution.
Now both work paid jobs, both take care of kids, both own homes, both run their finances, and both can sustain both themselves and their families if needed, and this is a good thing.
And emotionally, both SHOULD be able to function happily and completely in a passionate, joy filled life just because of choices they make, with full emotional completeness; whether they are alone; dating casually or in a relationship. This is not the same as emotional closedness. Not needing someone to complete us emotionally does not in any way close us off from wanting to be close to someone emotionally or physically; nor is it saying we don't care if we ever have that. It is just not the final piece needed for happiness; it is something that adds to a good life; not is vital to a life being successful or not.
Understand the difference?
It isn't either/or. It is a balanced passionate but at peace want, rather than an obsessive void craving to be filled at all costs or else. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/17/2009 11:39:17 PM |
You mean, acquiesce....
Oh, and I guess you missed coming to the conclusion that would I find people that banal and glib, to be non date worthy...
That's you. Some men might want to check before cutting their options further. As long as it's understood that women are sort of being attacked here for trying to defend themselves.
This is a strawman.
I never said, nor implied men were the masters of anything. I simply stated the fact that men are berated for being blunt and succinct when they communicate with women. You were too busy with your strawman to acknowledge that fact...
I guess since I prefer direct men I don't pay as much attention to women that have this problem. My bad.
Wow....you must be new around here, if you think for a minute that I'd ever give a woman like that the time of day....much less pay her bills...
Either way, stop speculating and casting aspersions on how pathetic and desperate you think I am, shall we?....
Ok so we agree that if she says she doesn't need you to provide those things, that's a positive statement. Not reason to make a big deal out of it and take it personally. Just because a description's not provided, or it's overly obvious doesn't make it terrible and offensive. It's general, and not directed at you personally unless of course she addressed you by name. | |
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| Flawed Logic
Posted: 7/18/2009 5:47:55 AM | I love your post, emlamNsea. I don't necessarily agree with the last sentence, but then again, people can be misogynistic without realising it...people can be alot of things and not know it.
I don't "need" a man, and I'm not sure I "want" one at the moment, either. I'm hoping that will change...my ambivalence. I don't really expect someone to come along as a result...but maybe when the time is right...I know I want one sometime!
Oh well, it's interesting in the meantime. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/18/2009 5:51:39 AM | "This analogy always bugs me. A relationship should be some sweet, sickly, sugar laden, with over half of its calories from fat confectionary? Nope, I want a relationship that is the full meal deal... balanced and nutritious and much, much more substantial than a cake that half the time I'm going to say "oh tanks, but no, I'm already full."
"If it is not necessity then what is it? Something to do as long as it is good and then you dispose of it? No wonder we have become such a disposable society."
"Again, you are confusing needy people with people who recognize the basic human need to love and care for each other. In addition to needy people, an overly independent person who has difficulty accepting help from their partner has self esteem issues. People who are over-protected and afraid of losing themselves in a relationship have self-esteem issues."
ItsMargo, I love everything you have to say. So there. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/18/2009 6:17:20 AM | What I NEED a man for may not be what a man may consider as a valid need. I am college educated, I am financially secure. My needs are emotional and physical. My ex is not an emotional type of guy and felt uncomfortable about the things I asked for. He values money over all else, and would buy me anything I ever wanted. But I didn't want/need things.
I need a man as a lover. Some things I can't do for myself. Believe me, I have tried...lol.
I need a man to hold me when I cry and make me feel safe.
I need a man to take care of my car because cars confuse me.
I need a man to make me feel loved and cherished.
I need a man to laugh with me.
I need a man to be my partner, a "You and me against the world" kinda thing.
Judge me all you want to but these are MY needs. I don't see my needs as weaknesses. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/18/2009 6:50:47 AM | I see myself becoming detached from the constant drone of some who speak to this uber-sufficiency so as to seemingly cloister themselves alone in their achievements...
I need a man for all that he wants and needs to impart of himself to me---I offer the same. I am not as established nor as sufficient as some here..but I am willing to share my life and build a life with him in all the ways that women have lived in being a partner to a man.
If there is something old fashioned in this thinking of mine....so be it. I've met some very happy older people that have looked back fondly on their lives...many coincidentally citing the times of building something together out of nothing...in spite of and despite whatever...as the sweetest and happiest of their lives. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/18/2009 6:56:04 AM | You mean, acquiesce....
Oh, and I guess you missed coming to the conclusion that would I find people that banal and glib, to be non date worthy... That's you. Some men might want to check before cutting their options further.
I guess that depends on how many options, one has. I personally wouldn't check any further....
As long as it's understood that women are sort of being attacked here for trying to defend themselves.
And some are missing the "big picture", entirely...
This isn't even about gender. It's about uttering banal statements.
Actually, what is happening here to some of the women, is that they are trying to defend a banal statement, and in the process, dig themselves into the ground instead of admitting that the declaration of "I don't need a man" is one that in the context of a dating profile designed ostensibly to attract men, is actually one that men can take umbrage to.
Basically, not being able to admit that it is a silly thing to say.
It's about being counter productive, and then attempting to rationalize it away, which is not a gender specific problem.
In essence, uttering the declaration that "I don't need a man", is only the tip of the iceberg....
This is a strawman. I never said, nor implied men were the masters of anything. I simply stated the fact that men are berated for being blunt and succinct when they communicate with women. You were too busy with your strawman to acknowledge that fact... I guess since I prefer direct men I don't pay as much attention to women that have this problem. My bad.
Lol...
I guess that's another area where people differ in life strategies. Even though I don't do most of the things that men are accused of, in dating or relationships, it's important that I understand what other men do, as I'm meeting someone new. Ignorance is not bliss...
It's vitally important that I understand the psyche of women, and I have to factor in their perspective on their overview of men in general, due to stigma, stereotypes, life experience and so on....
Wow....you must be new around here, if you think for a minute that I'd ever give a woman like that the time of day....much less pay her bills...
Either way, stop speculating and casting aspersions on how pathetic and desperate you think I am, shall we?.... Ok so we agree that if she says she doesn't need you to provide those things, that's a positive statement. Not reason to make a big deal out of it and take it personally. Just because a description's not provided, or it's overly obvious doesn't make it terrible and offensive. It's general, and not directed at you personally unless of course she addressed you by name.
You persist in projection...
I'm discussing the topic from an objective standpoint. Period.
I've never personally dealt with a woman who has uttered anything as stupid as "I don't need a man".
I've only seen it written in profiles. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/18/2009 8:02:22 AM |
I guess that depends on how many options, one has. I personally wouldn't check any further....
Agreed.
And some are missing the "big picture", entirely...
This isn't even about gender. It's about uttering banal statements.
To you it is. To that guy over there and to the OP I guess too, it's being taken personally as a man. If that's not your argument, then it seems to be the argument of a lot of men in this thread.
Actually, what is happening here to some of the women, is that they are trying to defend a banal statement, and in the process, dig themselves into the ground instead of admitting that the declaration of "I don't need a man" is one that in the context of a dating profile designed ostensibly to attract men, is actually one that men can take umbrage to.
Basically, not being able to admit that it is a silly thing to say.
I agree it is, but when men ask why - I assume they're looking for an honest answer. If they don't like it or don't care how it's interpreted, why discuss?
It's about being counter productive, and then attempting to rationalize it away, which is not a gender specific problem.
In essence, uttering the declaration that "I don't need a man", is only the tip of the iceberg....
Yep, I'll agree with you there - more than half the men out there do this in profiles and offline as well, so I get it.
Lol...
I guess that's another area where people differ in life strategies. Even though I don't do most of the things that men are accused of, in dating or relationships, it's important that I understand what other men do, as I'm meeting someone new. Ignorance is not bliss...
I'll have to look out for women who hate men who are direct. I just don't notice it much in my travels.
It's vitally important that I understand the psyche of women, and I have to factor in their perspective on their overview of men in general, due to stigma, stereotypes, life experience and so on....
Ok, so you at least get why it's said tho you don't like the WAY it's said.
You persist in projection...
I'm discussing the topic from an objective standpoint. Period.
I've never personally dealt with a woman who has uttered anything as stupid as "I don't need a man".
I only said "you" in response to you using "I" in earlier discussion.
I don't say this myself or post it in a profile because to me it's irrelevant unless someone meets me in person what I'm like. Most about me people will learn in time. I'd rather make sure someone I meet doesn't need me right away and hope he gets the general point. I do, however know where the statement comes from. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/18/2009 9:22:48 AM | We should re-name this thread to "Semantics 101"
Want... Need... Just different ways of disguising something much deeper and more complex than a lot of us can truly determine.
I am big on analogies so I offer this one;
When a relationship fails (crashes) a series of events is set in motion.
Sort of like the CSI of relationships.
The relationship CSI team is usually made up of one or many of the following;
Friends, Family, Yourself, Counselors, Priests, Co-workers, and in some cases ….. POF forumites.
I need to interject at this point that the qualifications of most of the investigators is highly suspect (not unlike Caruso’s so called acting skills).
This team is called in to comb through the wreckage of your relationship catastrophe (murder, hari kari, insert favorite descriptive here______)
This crack(ed) team of investigators will dissect the scene a ½ dozen or so different ways and will report back to you. Some of the findings will read like this;
“You were too needy, so you pushed them away, now grow a set and grab me a beer, oh and did I tell you your Aunt has cancer??”
“You didn’t place your faith in God’s glory so he has cast his mighty wrath down upon you, and don’t forget the collection tray on your way out”
“How does this make you feel? Where do you think you failed in this relationship? I am here to hear you, but I really will not offer any advice as the answers are in you, oh hey look it’s 12.30 and my next appointment is here… Keep taking those meds!!”
I could go on and on, but I think you may get the point. Ultimately you will have come to your own conclusions as to why you are alone and you may have decided that you were needy, so you will work on that and make sure people know you are no longer in “need” of a man or woman. We are all just trying to live with our choices and learn from our mistakes. How we project ourselves is based on these experiences and our subsequent manifestations of self.
The funny thing to me though is…. Whatever way you dress it up, it always comes back to the same thing. Most desire a mate. Most want to place their trust in another and form a team to go out and tackle/enjoy/revel in and against this life and its many splendors.
There is strength in numbers.
Just think of all those incredibly sad melodies out there… 1 is the loneliest number… | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/18/2009 10:12:25 AM |
I could go on and on, but I think you may get the point. Ultimately you will have come to your own conclusions as to why you are alone and you may have decided that you were needy, so you will work on that and make sure people know you are no longer in “need” of a man or woman. We are all just trying to live with our choices and learn from our mistakes. How we project ourselves is based on these experiences and our subsequent manifestations of self.
Great insight Fa que!
The funny thing to me though is…. Whatever way you dress it up, it always comes back to the same thing. Most desire a mate. Most want to place their trust in another and form a team to go out and tackle/enjoy/revel in and against this life and its many splendors.
... and may we all find that in our lives. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/18/2009 10:24:43 AM | The funny thing to me though is…. Whatever way you dress it up, it always comes back to the same thing. Most desire a mate.
Bottom line is this...
Denial.
They have a profile on here don't they? Why are they putting any effort into something if they don't need (ie: value) it?
Well, because they do value it. No matter whether they admit it openly or not.
So let's substitue "value" for "want versus need", in order to get to the crux of the issue.
Do people still value each other? And how much so?
**********************
honestly, I only keep posting in this thread because I like exchanging ideas, but for the record, I'd rather gouge my eyes out than have this much dialogue with a woman in real life over this whole "I don't need a man", BS. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/18/2009 12:23:08 PM |
They have a profile on here don't they? Why are they putting any effort into something if they don't need (ie: value) it?
Well, because they do value it. No matter whether they admit it openly or not.
So let's substitue "value" for "want versus need", in order to get to the crux of the issue.
ah...
this is semantics 102.
I am happy; I am complete; but I DO value the idea of sharing time or, more than that, a relationship; with another at some point.
I admit that openly. Do I need it? Nope. Do I want it ultimately? Yep. do I value what could be shared, exchanged and given between me and another, if or when I end up getting into a real, multi dimensional relationship?
Absolutely.
I am built for a relationship; but I am happy single too. So need and value are still different words in my vocabulary. I would be happy if I go forever by myself; but I would be happiER if I don't. I place great value on being fully open and intimate with another human being; but if I don't for whatever reason, it's all still good. Preference is for the value; but happiness is not dependent on it.
imvho
(and lol on the final comment...) | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/19/2009 5:30:31 AM |
Want... Need... Just different ways of disguising something much deeper and more complex than a lot of us can truly determine.
And what is deep 'something' which seemingly cannot be denied deep within us that constantly pushes us to seek it...this want/need? For some...it seems almost against their will that they satisfy it.
There is strength in numbers
That seems to work for most species...and from what I understood for much of humankind. Subscribing greatly to over-thinking, so many here toss the legitimacy of that fact aside to argue that real strength seems to be in autonomy....in "1". I've spent a lot of time being "1"...and to me, nothing is more unnatural.
fa que, good points. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/19/2009 9:52:00 AM | Lord,what a freakin' mess this thread has become.Trainwreck, anybody?
"they found him in the wreck with his hand on the throttle
he'd been scalded to death by the steam"
(Wreck of Ol' 97)
My opinion;
Most women who write or speak a 'disclaimer' stating they don't NEED a man are simply trying to convey that they are not in a drama filled life teetering on the brink of economic/social/emotional/practical disaster, and looking for a man to save them. I'm sure that most men who disclaim need of a woman are trying to convey that they are NOT seeking a cook/housekeeper/nurse...or, more rarely(but still noteworthy) a woman to provide HIM with food, shelter,transportation in exchange for an escort to social&entertainment events(on her dime)sex, and some hlfhearted, half assed "help" with minor household and automotive repairs.
THAT IS WHAT I TRULY BELIEVE MOST PEOPLE MEAN WHEN THEY DENY "NEEDING" A 'SIGNIFICANT OTHER' RELATIONSHIP.
That said, I believe that this thread, given that it was started specifically in reference to "women who don't need men", is pointing out a fairly common inaccurate presumption made by BOTH genders...
That signing up to one or more "online dating sites" whether paid or free, will open up a veritable "treasure trove" of the opposite gender seeking dating&relationships, and that 'finding someone to be with" should be easier than falling off a log. When this turns out to be not the case, the average person, regardless of gender, becomes anything from mildly pissed, to just short of foaming-at-the-mouth rage. Some get past this, some don't.
With a tip of the hat to our friends here who currently HAVE a SO relationship, and hand at THIS site for the fora, most men and women who sign up for online dating sites ARE looking to find that someone SPECIAL(and that IS the key word here,"special!"). Many seem to have the mindset that the internet and the bars are the only viable options for meeting available members of the opposite sex,or at least the most expedient. It would be my educated guess that anyone whose profile states that they don't "need" a man(or woman) is simply trying to convey that they are not looking,in women's case,for a provider/protector/handyman/father figure for minor children. And in mens' profiles, such a disclaimer simply means that he's not looking for a cook/housekeeper/nurse, OR a sugar momma.
For those who are not having the expected quick SUCCESS in making a connection, welcome to the club. Calm down. The internet dating sites should only be PART of how you go about meeting potential dating/relationship prospects. And unless YOU are willing to form a relationship with the first available person that approaches you, regardless of whether you feel one iota of attraction/interest
or your suspicions that you are about to get used for ulterior motives ...don't be blamestorming.
Cindy O | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/19/2009 10:08:49 AM | I as a human need to give and recieve love, and I do.
Friends, family, animals ect.
I don't need a man to be happy or to live, but loving one and being loved in return would be a fantastic side dish in my life.
Music would sound better, food taste better, the scary times not so scary and the good times would be better.
I am not afraid to say I have needs or wants.
Wanting is a symptom of some needs you know.
Needs/wants, yeah I have them.
It will take a very special one, because I am special.
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/19/2009 12:52:49 PM | Gee! An attractive woman who doesn't need a man is the kind of woman I'd love to find. I make a decent living, for me, but I sure don't make enough to keep a woman in designer jeans and a growing collection of shoes and purses.
I think a woman who doesn't need a man is more likely to be looking for a relationship based on love and mutual attraction than a woman who feels she needs a man. A woman who needs a man is looking for someone to support her, and will forgo a loving man for a man who may not be especially loving but who is rich. | |
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