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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 10:48:54 AM | To say that the only needs are the physiological needs required to sutain life, is a sign of a poorly educated and unevolved mind. We all have "higher" needs than food, water, air, shelter, and clothes. To deny that we have safety needs, emotional needs, social needs, love and belonging needs would be to say that one is "complete" living as a hermit, so long as there is sufficient food to be found, and shelter in a cave against the elements.
The seminal work in terms of motivation is Mazlow's hierarchy of needs. It's not the pyramid of "wants".
Most people feel an instinctive need to love,, and be loved in return. We can survive a lifetime without love, or without friends, but would you really want to be anywhere near someone, who has spent a lifetime without having experienced either love or friendship? | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 11:10:41 AM | Many women no longer need a man to survive because the hard work of man is funneled away through taxes and used to support all women on welfare or taken away in outrageously large child support payments that don't need accounted for and alimony.
All we did was some hocus pocus where men support women through the government rather than directly so that a lot of women can feel happy that they don't need a man, when really if men were smart they'd forgo the silly system we currently have and the vast majority of women would be completely lost. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 11:16:19 AM | ^^^So how do you explain women with jobs, who've never married and have no kids? Are they just kidding themselves too?
RM:
It seems that when it's mentioned that humans have higher needs than food or water, at some point people start talking about humans needing other humans, which isn't in question. We all need community, family and friends socially...how it keeps getting assumed that not depending on men means "I prefer solitary confinement" is beyond me.
Most can survive without a romantic relationship, but can still have people around them at the same time. It's not date or have no human contact. There's gray area... | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 11:24:27 AM | It seems that when it's mentioned that humans have higher needs than food or water, at some point people start talking about humans needing other humans, which isn't in question. We all need community, family and friends socially...how it keeps getting assumed that not depending on men means "I prefer solitary confinement" is beyond me.
Because of all the posts that precede this one, where woman say that a "need" is limited to survival, and then say that anything else is merely a "want".
Most can survive without a romantic relationship,
survival is not the issue, nor the definition of "need". When one encounters someone who, at an older age, has never known love, one usually encounters a somewhat sad and empty person. The singular exception would be those who have devoted their lives to some other selfless pursuit out of some sense of a "higher calling", such as Mother Theresa.
If the only question is "survival", then nobody "needs" anyone else for anything, and we should all live as hermits, until the human race ceases to exist. However, most emotionally healthy people recognize that we have "higher needs" than mere survival.
To recognize that it's a simple human need to love, and be loved in return, does not imply desperation, or that you "need" someone, just anyone who asks. It's merely to acknowledge that to be all that you can be, there are every higher needs to meet, as you strive towards being a self-actualized, complete human being. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 11:37:41 AM | While it may be true that men need to be needed, they do not want to be needed just by anyone. There is so much need in the world that being needed is not the issue. So i would assume that women equally don't need a man per say. Within the confines of an intimate relationship need is created by through interdependence, but this need is different then the need you are referring to. I need my partner and my life would not be the same without her. But before meeting her i needed a woman like i needed another hole in my head. The idea of being in another relationship was like contracting a disease.
I think your logic is flawed because being needed by the wrong person is not a nice feeling. being needed by the right person is not the same at all. My partner doesn't need me for what i can do but she needs me because of who i am and the same is true for my need for her. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 12:41:27 PM | OP, The kind of man you speak of, who is actually willing to do things in a realtionship, to give, to care about someone besides himself, who is able to love, be a partner, has been a very ellusive creature in my world. At the age of 49, I really do have to say that I have yet to have one of these types of men in my life, and that includes all male relatives, daddy, boyfriends, the whole ballgame.
What I have seen almost exclusively is men that are interested in their ego, building their empire, doing what they want to do when they want to do it, no honey do list, no requests whatsoever. I have seen men who love to come over for home cooked meals, massages, sex, whatever they can get and then go off on their merry way, writing that next chapter in their saga. If the woman has alot of money and assetts, something that he could utilize to make his life easier, he may stick around. Or if the man is really attracted to you sexually and the woman is hot and sexy and it is an ego rush for him, then he may be more willing to put some energy into it.
But from what I have seen, men are interested in the payoff, plain and simple. They have been a whole lot of work and absolutey no reward for me, if anything a detriment to my security and peace of mind. Most ARE this way. Not only a few.
So that is why we say we can live without a man. We have never had one we could count on for anything in the first place. What are we supposed to do, shrivel up and die?
I don`t request or expect a thing from a man. That way I am not disappointed when I come to the realization that he is only like the rest, no matter what a good guy he said he is. It is all about what is in it for him.
I view men like any other enjoyable vice such as alcohol, gambling, drugs----fun in the beginning but it destroys in the end. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 12:51:28 PM | ^^^
^^^ then you have never met one of "us" men. Us men have sole custody of our children. Us men have to ensure everything is done in the home. Us men can't subscribe to any "conventional" behaviours as we are soley reliant on ourselves. We have cooked/cleaned/fed/nurtured/worried/wept(not over a movie... ok ... maybe the notebook)/kept/built/maintained/remained and on and on (and HE told two friends... )
As for women being happy with us??? Don't know but US guys don't have much time to meet you hard working women while we are stuck at home cleaning up.
I need a Midol and a bath... not really but Steak and BJ are cliche.
VVV
Edit
If you are speaking to my comments you missed the point entirely. Not saying I don't want to do anything, quite the opposite. I am saying we have adapted to do what may have been traditionally the other sexes duties. No wonder everyone is so mixed up these days... no one knows what the hell is supposed to be a "mans" job or a womans job.... Personally, I don't care, it's in sharing the work where the bond grows. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 1:07:38 PM | This is exactly what I meet. Men who don`t WANT to do anything. They may do some things, but do it so begrudgingly and with such a chip on their shoulders, and get so nasty, I`d just rather do it myself, and pass on the man helping. It`s the ticked off attitude they demonstrate when having to do anything they don`t want to do.
So I have just decided, just be around them when they are doing something they want to do ( their hobby, eating or sex) That way, I don`t have to put up with the nastiness and unending complaining. If you don`t want to be in a relationship that requires effort, don`t .Stay alone. Live a simple life, do what you want to do when you want to do it. Don`t do anything for a woman that you begrudge ( which is almost everything besides sex) and be happy. There are women that are like me, don`t want to push a man to do anything and don`t want to be around him when he is getting all pissy because he might have to do something. Stay alone. There`s enough women out there that don`t want a man around for anything besides sex, that you can find a lover to take care of that. And........no more expectations than that. There are plenty of women who will require no financial help, may even help you, won`t ask a thing of you. You should be happy with this and have nothing to gripe about. Play your life away, some of us just plain aren`t going to try and change that. We get it!
We understand what alot of men want. That`s why we don`t bother even considering a relationship. Men don`t want to do anything. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 1:17:01 PM | "men need to be needed. At work. At home. We want to be making contributions that would be sorely missed if we were gone. We want to make a difference to those around us. Otherwise, what's the point? "
This isn't a gender issue. Both men and women say the above.
I think what OP is saying is the way a few men express male empty nesting to begin with.
Life has stages. There is a stage when people are young enough to reproduce that all this needing makes sense.
As people age and go through different stages, they should be able to change with the stages, and appreciate the stages they have been through and what contributions is stage has been.
Wanting to stay in a stage could easily be fear of the unknown. It could be not feeling that they have been successful at a stage so they want to repeat it. There are many reason that people don't want to get comfortable with themselves and their livestyles. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 1:18:17 PM | | I think a lot of this is word play and pride. 'Need', 'want', etc... some people don't want anyone to think they have a dependent bone in their body. So they don't need anyone, or are trying to prove they can live/survive without someone. Whatever, I'll admit I need a woman, otherwise I wouldn't be here. When your shoes wear out, do you say you need a new pair, or do you say you want a knew pair; then go barefooted to prove you just want them? Sure I can 'survive' without a woman, but survive is barely making it. I'd rather do more than just survive. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 1:28:22 PM |
Because of all the posts that precede this one, where woman say that a "need" is limited to survival, and then say that anything else is merely a "want".
Granted, human contact will enhance life - tho without it we won't die - however to jump from we need other people in our lives to a woman needing a man is flawed.
survival is not the issue, nor the definition of "need". When one encounters someone who, at an older age, has never known love, one usually encounters a somewhat sad and empty person. The singular exception would be those who have devoted their lives to some other selfless pursuit out of some sense of a "higher calling", such as Mother Theresa. '
I am sure there are people that have known love and end up single at an older age who are NOT sad and empty. Assuming that one would cause the other is a projection based on your personal feelings about how YOU would feel in that situation. VERY few people have gone all their lives and not experienced love, BTW - because (again) love does not ONLY refer to romantic love - nor do many people never meet or date anyone their whole lives.
If the only question is "survival", then nobody "needs" anyone else for anything, and we should all live as hermits, until the human race ceases to exist. However, most emotionally healthy people recognize that we have "higher needs" than mere survival.
To say we SHOULD all live as hermits based on need is again extreme thinking. We may not need certain relationships, but still enjoy them. We just wouldn't have to live based on them. I have people I've known for years and who are close to me. There are certain people I have GROWN to need over time. That's different from saying I need "anyone" in my life. It's not true.
To recognize that it's a simple human need to love, and be loved in return, does not imply desperation, or that you "need" someone, just anyone who asks. It's merely to acknowledge that to be all that you can be, there are every higher needs to meet, as you strive towards being a self-actualized, complete human being.
There's a difference between needing love and needing to date someone or live with someone, or even sleep with someone. Generally humans need interaction. Specifically, women can be in relationships with men and not "depend" on them for anything. However a woman may GROW to NEED a CERTAIN man over a time of being involved with him. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 1:28:53 PM | I agree with one of the other posters: love is a need. I need friends, a feeling of belonging, and companionship. I think anyone who cannot admit this is in denial or dealing with issues and I would gladly pass a profile stating "I don't need a man" for someone more honest.
-Michael | |
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| So...
Posted: 7/9/2009 1:30:57 PM |
It's merely to acknowledge that to be all that you can be, there are every higher needs to meet, as you strive towards being a self-actualized, complete human being.
....a person isn't a complete human being unless they are in a romantic relationship? | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 1:31:58 PM | It's like that commercial for QVC Jewelry.... We don't need a man, but OHHHH do we want one....
I like to think that those of us that don't "need" a man, will find that perfect one that we don't need....But we sure do want him... I would much rather feel wanted, than needed. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 1:52:07 PM | I need to express love and to be loved. I want that to be a man because I am heterosexual.
I want but do not need a SO. I want but not need companionship. I want but do not need to be cherished and loved. I want but do not need to share my daily life with someone special to me. I will be sad if I never find my Mr. Wonderful but I will still have a wonderful life even if there is no Mr. Wonderful in it. I had a client once who said he wanted a woman who need him because that way she would not leave him. -How sad- In my world of experience The best type of relationship is one that is interdependent where love and respect is mutual and both people give and receive love. That is what I want and need. Interdependence is when both parties are and can be independent but also heave each other to come home to. I am happy without a man because I have a great life. I would be happy with a man in my life because that would also make me happy. I am not dependent on a man for my happiness. My happiness is my responsibility not his. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 2:12:26 PM | But from what I have seen, men are interested in the payoff, plain and simple. They have been a whole lot of work and absolutey no reward for me, if anything a detriment to my security and peace of mind. Most ARE this way. Not only a few...
I view men like any other enjoyable vice such as alcohol, gambling, drugs----fun in the beginning but it destroys in the end.
Nope. Sorry,DW, with all due respect;
this isn't "don't need a man, don't care about finding a man."
This is sour grapes, pure and simple.
If all the men in your life were as cold, uncaring, and self centered as you claim, an internet dating site would be the absofreakin'lutely the LAST place you'd be.
But that's not the main point of the OT.
There are women who have all the survival and even social interaction issues resolved. They may indeed be very busy. I don't think these women are saying they "don't care"...it's more like they "aren't overly worried about being single." Some have accepted that finding that good love may not be in the cards for them. Some may have KNOWN that good love, and had good men in their lives. Some are simply kickin' back and letting the Universe unfold however it's gonna unfold for them. Some have come to realize that they are not easy to love, or that their life circumstances don't lend themselves to being a popular product on the dating market. They also know that DOESN'T mean they "have to settle" for poor quality of feeling, or 3rd rate involvements with lowrent men, or men they feel nothing for. They don't blame it all on the men, nor do they take all the fault on themselves. They just say, "it is what it is, if I'm meant to find real love and a meaningful relationship, it will happen. But those things don't grow on trees.And they get on with their lives,and don't worry about finding a man and being happy...because they already ARE happy. Finding that special guy would just make it a different kind of happy.
Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
I say probably not. Here's why.
And I say, why do you care?
I'll tell you. We will look elsewhere.
That's fine. Women who truly have stopped WORRYING about "being with someone" are gonna be fine with that.
So whos left?
Men who don't care whether they add anything to a woman's life or not. Men who are more interested in getting than giving. Not exactly great partnership material.
And...? If a woman truly doesn't CARE about finding a man to be with, why should "not exactly great partnership material" be an issue,anyway? Sometimes a guy who wouldn't be great partnership material can be a great friend/companion in crime(with or without benefits). And women who "sorta" care, but aren't WORRIED about "finding a man" will just shake it off if an interesting prospect doesn't hold up to larger expectations.
Are men who are having trouble getting the relationship they want likely to IMPROVE their prospects by lecturing the women who aren't consumed with "finding a man",the women who are willing to let things play out without manuevering, posturing, trying too hard, who don't feel like they "have" to "accept" or "settle" for anything?
I say probably not. Rather than explaining why( who the hell cares anyway) let me offer some suggestions.
If you need to be needed, trust me, there are TONS of causes and needs out there, if you step back and look at the bigger picture. And it need not be formalized involvement...I know of single men who are just simply the rock of their neighborhood or community, helping older folks, single mothers, those with challenges, without particularly being a member of a group or organization.
But if you need to be needed, if you want to make a difference, step back from the relationship thing, and quit trying to persuade women who've come to terms with their present singlehood,that the rest of their life is gonna suck unless they start "needing" a man. The emotionally sound ones ain't buyin' it. If you have a need to be needed, if you really want to make a difference in your little corner of the world,to matter to someone, opportunities abound. It may not be the exact same thing as a romantic relationship, but it seems to me that it would be more productive than lecturing "single and comfortable with that" women that they'll never be happy unless they "need" an a man in their life.
Cindy O | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 3:39:11 PM | womaninprogress,
You have expanded beautifully on my very simple answer. The truth is that no one really needs anyone. It is all about wanting someone. This is all semantics, but when we truly desire something we say we "need" it.
I believe that when people say they don't need anyone to be happy they are being very truthful. However, I also believe that it is because they lack the passion for a meaningful relationship or fear succumbing to such and losing their independence. In essence they want to live life without having to learn how to love another person or they want their independence more than they want a man or woman. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 3:55:12 PM |
....a person isn't a complete human being unless they are in a romantic relationship?
Motivational theory, really. We are motivated by our highest unmet need. So, if someone isn't worried about his/her survival needs, safety, social needs, etc.. at some point, he/she feels that "what's missing" is to have a special someone in his/her life. Because the more important needs are already fulfilled, the focus becomes finding someone to love, and to be loved in return. It thus becomes the need that feels most urgent.
Without someone to love, and who loves in return, it doesn't mean that anyone is going to suddenly become dysfunctional. I know that, for me, my life is ok, and I have no concerns, in the moment, about the basics in life, safety, or having friends. Thus, I am more aware of the void in my life that exists, because there isn't a romantic love in my life.
I'm not afraid to acknowledge that it's a "need", because it is. It's not about "dependancy", and it's not so urgent as to motivate me to leap at the first woman, who comes along. If that need isn't met, I will continue to live a full life, but something will be missing.
"You want fries with that?" is about a "want". "needing someone to need me" would be dysfunctional and codependant. Feeling a "need" for love in one's life is a very normal, natural response to human nature/human instinct.
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 3:58:08 PM | | I have put in my profile that I am looking for a lover, not a b.f., roomate, or husband. I want to be safe emotionally and physically, so I am not looking for one night stands. I don't need a man to fullfill me personally or financially, but I am heterosexual and prefer my sex to be with another, preferably and interesting person on top of being a good lover. I'm sorry if that doesn't seem needy enough...I've learned over the years to be independent and I also have a strong network of friends and family- is that a bad thing? | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 4:00:23 PM | Shelter, food, water, oxygen. These are our only needs? Survival dictates necessity?
Than what of the person who no longer wants life. Is this a person who no longer has any needs.
The problem with this debate is that need is far to strong a word to describe something that we could survive without, and want is far to mundane a word to equate with such a powerful emotion as love. When I was single I wanted love, I wanted companionship. When I fell in love with my SO, I realized that I needed her in my life, thats right needed. The true realization is this. Need is not a real thing, it is an idea. It is how we perceive the things that we want the most. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 4:16:49 PM | Msg#52
I must be an anomaly. I have payed my way since I was 14 years old. I payed my tuition to nursing school. When I married I supported my husband through university by paying his living expenses and payed off his student loan. When I left my marriage I put myself through university as well as working part time to pay for my education. I also bought a house and payed for that at the same time. When I finished university I started a successful business which still I run today. I have been lucky buying and selling houses and am now mortgage free in an new home. I have a considerable some of money in investments. All of which I have earned. I also pay income tax , property tax and GST. The government has given me nothing because I even pay my medical and dental plans as well as the full CPP contribution. I have never received money from an man or welfare or from spousal support. I imagine there are millions more women who have had similar life experiences. Needing a man to survive is moot. In my world wanting and/or needing a loving companion has very little to do with survival it has to do with giving and receiving love. However I am happy as I am and I would be happy if if I had a loving man in my life. I believe no one is responsible for my life or my happiness except me. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 4:27:03 PM | | My view of needy would be someone dependent on another, not able to make decisions on their own. I am capable of taking care of myself. My view of need would be the love of a man, the need to be close, the need to have friends, the need to take care of one another. Men who ask for sex right away are very needy and some women are getting tired of needy men and want a man that really needs them. | |
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