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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 6:47:49 PM | i was an independent woman until my late 40's. insisting on having our own homes, having lots of space. needless to say that was a problem for men i was involved with yet i thought it was the safe way to go. never know when someone will die, outgrow each other or leave you so might as well keep that little distance.
i changed out of the blue and am now quite aware that men need to be needed. and i let them know that i need them. it works. i feel more capable of having a lifetime partnership. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 6:53:56 PM |
There are women who have all the survival and even social interaction issues resolved. They may indeed be very busy. I don't think these women are saying they "don't care"...it's more like they "aren't overly worried about being single." Some have accepted that finding that good love may not be in the cards for them. Some may have KNOWN that good love, and had good men in their lives. Some are simply kickin' back and letting the Universe unfold however it's gonna unfold for them. Some have come to realize that they are not easy to love, or that their life circumstances don't lend themselves to being a popular product on the dating market. They also know that DOESN'T mean they "have to settle" for poor quality of feeling, or 3rd rate involvements with lowrent men, or men they feel nothing for. They don't blame it all on the men, nor do they take all the fault on themselves. They just say, "it is what it is, if I'm meant to find real love and a meaningful relationship, it will happen. But those things don't grow on trees.And they get on with their lives,and don't worry about finding a man and being happy...because they already ARE happy. Finding that special guy would just make it a different kind of happy.
If you need to be needed, trust me, there are TONS of causes and needs out there, if you step back and look at the bigger picture. And it need not be formalized involvement...I know of single men who are just simply the rock of their neighborhood or community, helping older folks, single mothers, those with challenges, without particularly being a member of a group or organization.
But if you need to be needed, if you want to make a difference, step back from the relationship thing, and quit trying to persuade women who've come to terms with their present singlehood,that the rest of their life is gonna suck unless they start "needing" a man. The emotionally sound ones ain't buyin' it. If you have a need to be needed, if you really want to make a difference in your little corner of the world,to matter to someone, opportunities abound. It may not be the exact same thing as a romantic relationship, but it seems to me that it would be more productive than lecturing "single and comfortable with that" women that they'll never be happy unless they "need" an a man in their life.
Once again Cindy O gets it. Thumbs up!
You have expanded beautifully on my very simple answer. The truth is that no one really needs anyone. It is all about wanting someone. This is all semantics, but when we truly desire something we say we "need" it.
I don't. I don't think I've said I needed anything since I was 12 and "needed" something trendy - and of course my head was up my azz to use that terminology.
I believe that when people say they don't need anyone to be happy they are being very truthful.
Alrighty - though I disagree with you that people cannot add to the happiness you (should) possess on your own.
However, I also believe that it is because they lack the passion for a meaningful relationship or fear succumbing to such and losing their independence. In essence they want to live life without having to learn how to love another person or they want their independence more than they want a man or woman.
It's not that black and white. As Cindy said, some are ok with love but don't wish to hunt it down and kill it like prey, some have had it and know it, some don't obsess over "finding" it. It will be what it will be in life. Forcing it only frustrates yourself.
However when it comes to independence, one shouldn't have to give it up to be in a relationship, if it's one that works for them. Some of us simply don't see it as something to trade in. I believe you can have both. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 7:10:41 PM | we all need people but it is emotional need - not financial.
I don't need anything financially - which should be an attractive quality. He should tell a man that I'm not here to use him. It should tell him that I am good woman - responsible in my life.
It should tell him that I am looking at his heart and will love him with all of mine.
So please don't blame this on the women - we have convinced ourselves that we don't need a man. But this is because men have a need to rescue women and since we don't need to be rescued. They don't find us attractive.
I actually feel sorry for you guys. I have heard so many story's from guys about how they pulled this woman out poverty and gave her a life. Only to have her leave him when she no longer needed him. Yet, these same men continue to seek out these women. And continue to get hurt. They need "needy" women to make them feel like men.
So don't blame the strong woman because men are weak!! | |
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| Sure...
Posted: 7/9/2009 7:26:18 PM |
My only point is that it can be interpreted negatively, when someone is just doing a quick read.
...it could be. So could the stuff in your profile. So could the stuff in my profile. Again, I think a wise person writes their profile not to be inviting to all, but the be inviting to the sort of person they want...and my guess is that the man who takes negativity out of the "example" I gave is the sort of man "that woman" wouldn't want in her life anyway.
My default assumption is that a woman in whom I'd have initial interest is a self-sufficient, emotionally healthy woman, who has a reasonably full life.
That is great for you. But in a world where many men think every woman is a gold digging harpy, can you blame some for wanting to make it clear they aren't looking to take him for anything?
My experience has been that often the women who put "I don't need a man" in their profiles, are those women found in the fora spewing bitterness and anger towards men.Most of the profiles I read are from the fora, which is why I trust that perception as valid
Now, now...you are smarter than that.
Just because witches on brooms like to say "I don't need a man", doesn't mean every woman who says " I don't need a made" is a witch on a broom. I agree with you that an inordinate percentage of female posters seem to be broom riders....but isn't that to be expected? Bitter people need a place to air their grievances. What you read in the forums isn't any sort of real representation for who is on POF...let alone the populous in general.
The woman I am dating now has "I don't need a man" in her hidden profile. Yes, she is a bit...feisty. But she is also the most compassionate, kind (versus "nice"...I like to tease her about that) generous, giving person I have EVER known. She has decided to enter into a relationship with a man who has nothing and who could be leaving at any time to follow a job where ever it might be, and she did so willingly, and has done nothing but give of herself and be supportive while we both wait on a very uncertain future for myself. I could not ask for more....and she "doesn't need a man"...which is a good thing, because I ain't got shit to give save for my companionship. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 7:29:03 PM | Geezus, I can't believe what this thread has devolved to. I find it interesting and somewhat ironic, that many of those vehemently opposing the OP's first post and the thread topic, don't seem to have "long term" as their stated relationship goals. Ahh well, c'est la vie.
There are a whole bunch of people in this world searching for The Love of Their Lives, Their Soulmate, Their Twin Flame, The One...dare I say, one or seven of them are actually women on this site? While I and they hope...nay...WANT to find a significant other with whom to enjoy a long term, loving, satisfying and happy relationship, we have come to understand that in order to fulfill that desire/want/hope/dream/etc., 'we' NEED to find that person of the opposite sex. Therefore, yup...I need a woman to fulfill my relationship goal.
If I or they are fortunate enough to meet someone who fulfills that need, it is due to the fact we have communicated our viewpoints, opinions, expectations, boundaries, interests, etc. etc., as have they communicated theirs to me/us. And overall, it (the relationship) has a real shot at becoming the attainment of the stated goal.
I agree 98% with RenMan's assessment that someone who puts that disclaimer in their profile, is making a fairly profound statement. I won't dismiss them out of hand based on that, however, I will ask questions pertaining to it. I NEED to know what they meant and what their view of a long term relationship entails. If they explain what so many here have stated, e.g. that they are content within themselves, comfortable in their own skin, capable, confident and successful...WOO HOO! If, on the other hand, they state they have been burned so many times that they guard their feelings, are reluctant to let go and give, nourish the relationship, love their man with the lust and enthusiasm they expect to receive...BOO HOO!
Msg. #3:
we can do all those things you mentioned, but would appreciate and willingly accept a man's contribution via the partnership, but we no longer need a man to survive or function in those areas.
this is healthy. not to say we wouldn't miss you when you were gone.
I don't want you to miss me when I die. I want you to miss me while I'm alive and we're apart.
~ds~ | |
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| Sure...
Posted: 7/9/2009 8:01:11 PM | If a person "wants" to live they "need" Food, water, oxygen and some form of shelter.
If a person "wants" to have electricity, they need a source of income, and they need to pay their electricity bill.
If a heterosexual man wants to feel romantic love, he needs a woman.
If a heterosexual woman wants to feel romantic love, she needs a man.
Definitions aside, need only exists after you have defined a want, and have accepted the sacrifices and/or dependencies that will come with obtaining the thing that you desire, as needs.
Once you have obtained something that you want, you do not divorce yourself from the sacrifices and/or dependencies that allowed you to obtain it, without losing the very thing you wanted.
You cannot place a deposit and have your electricity turned on, then expect them not to turn it off when you do not pay your bill.
If you are in a romantic relationship that is based on love, you cannot say that you you do not need a man, until you have decided that you no longer desire romantic love. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 10:12:57 PM | Posts #107 and #108 brilliantly capsulized the "issue"
If they explain what so many here have stated, e.g. that they are content within themselves, comfortable in their own skin, capable, confident and successful...WOO HOO! If, on the other hand, they state they have been burned so many times that they guard their feelings, are reluctant to let go and give, nourish the relationship, love their man with the lust and enthusiasm they expect to receive...BOO HOO! It's been my experience that the vast majority fall into the second category of women who bray that "I don't need a man". If a heterosexual man wants to feel romantic love, he needs a woman. If a heterosexual woman wants to feel romantic love, she needs a man.
Exactly, so when a woman says she "doesn't need a man", to me, she is telling me that, in advance to even meeting, she's not emotionally available for a relationship that is based on romantic love.
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/9/2009 10:30:15 PM | No doubt a person can still be happy even if some of their needs go unmet. We all know men and women who are happily single. But the question I pose is this, "Can a woman who doesn't need a man attract the kind of man she will be happy with?"
I did read most of your answers. I say most because if your first post was an attempt to start a fight or involved name calling I didn't bother reading anything else you wrote. I also didn't bother reading your post if you are known for being offensive on nearly every thread you participate in.
Many of you say that wants are OK and needs are a weakness. They are a weakness because they imply dependency which you believe is a bad thing.
A few of you said in essence that there is little difference between wants and needs. You also openly acknowedged that you have all kinds of needs--food, water, shelter, respect, companionship, love, respect, fun, and so on. Although few in number you made the stronger case to me.
I'd really like to hear from you if you are a woman and have had a take-it-or-leave it attitude towards having a man in your life.
--How has that worked out for you?
--Have you been happy with the men that attitude has attracted?
--Once you have that attitude can you ever change?
I'd also really like to hear from you if you are a man and have been involved with a woman who had a take-it-or-leave it attitude towards men.
--How did it work out?
--Would you get involved with a woman with that kind of attitude again?
Your Fellow Fish,
Timothy Paul | |
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| Sure...
Posted: 7/9/2009 11:08:59 PM | IMHO, it really is this simple:
If a heterosexual man wants to feel romantic love, he needs a woman.
If a heterosexual woman wants to feel romantic love, she needs a man.
And, when one finds that elusive love (romantic match), and if they/the relationship becomes important enough, their want becomes our need to fulfill.
I doubt the elderly that have been married for 40, 50, 60 years argue over "wants verses needs." Personally, I see the two interchangable.
Kind of like: Which came first the chicken (want) or the egg (need)?
Personally, I wouldn't get along with someone admament about which came first. I think we need 'em both to make a good chicken fajita omelette (sp?).
[Cartoon Pic: Rooster and Hen kicked-back on a bed of hay, smoking a cig.;
Caption: "Guess we finally answered that age old question."]
just a 'lighten-up' thought
EDIT: (after OPs last post) Nevermind. lol
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:02:09 AM | | It's more about self esteem. Not needing a man to validate her worth, independent enough to be choozy about the relationship she wants to be in rather than settle for someone who does not feel the need to invest an equal amount into the relationship. It's about respecting each other, about wanting to be someone's best friend as well as lover. | |
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| In the words of the late great John Lennons ...........
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:05:06 AM | "all you need is love"
If a woman has never experienced true love, I can see why she may be skewed toward "needing or wanting" a man. On the other hand, if she has experienced true love and chooses to live without it or not seek it..........then it's a sad life to live.
Some would argue that they don't want to go through another painfull exit? | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:10:35 AM | not every man appreciates being needed. In fact, some don't want to be needed at all, they don't want to feel "responsible". Some women like to be needed.
So you can't logically say that women who don't need a man will not find one. They just won't find one who wants to be needed.
I like to be needed. I don't like to a be something kept at home for convenience when my man is in the mood for me. So I'm not interested in men who treat me that way. It's that simple. Doesn't mean they won't find someone else.
I think that common theme of so many threads is....Everyone thinks like I do.......and if I'm not interested, it's because there is something wrong with that person, not something wrong with me..... | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:34:20 AM | | to be honest i rather be single then rather be in a realtionship with a woman thats my prefrence the divorced rate is high and plus been single it the best there is and you dont have to hear woman compliain or whinge and have the baggage and the drama to go with it plus you have the adavantage of not having kids in your life 24/7 365 days a year to worry about and for the next 18years or so and when you are single you can go partying and travel without been in a realtionship with the woman | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:40:49 AM | Always thought one could party and travel with SO, too. Maybe people might want to exchange the word "need" for "want". "I want a partner" makes the whole idea having a love life wonderful. It makes both parties feel appreciated, and not like a work arrangement. Yeah, I like the idea of being wanted more than being needed because in the end, a wanted person is needed.
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| Am I missing the big picture?
Posted: 7/10/2009 2:41:59 AM | I have read all of these posts and have put in my two cents while laughing my fanny off!
I dont need a man because man made me that way.....my father. Thats right! He told me all of my life that I would not need a man and the whole time he was teaching me electrical, plumbing, construction, glass and marble works, mirrors, cabinetry and mechanics. So, technically, I really do not need a man. Guess what? If my roof springs a leak I wont be waiting a couple days for someone to look at it. It will be dealt with within the hour!
The house I live in is still under construction. I purchased it out of our family estate. I had walked the floors and knew that there was some water damage but I didnt even imagine that I would have to tear out half of the house, jack up the main girter, dig holes for addition pillars, replace all of the joists, box bands, lay sub and upper flooring and re-attach the walls that were hanging while the floors went in. That doesnt include the backerboard and tile. Yes indeed, it was a job! And its not finished, but liveable.
I used neighborhood boys to help me do the gutting of the house and most of the floor laying. Because of the dangers of the house caving in, I did hire out the removal of a bearing wall. Other than that, it was my own energy and knowledge that got the job done. I didnt need a man to do it for me.....but I did need men to give me sound advice, like putting hangers under each joist and the difference between titanium nails and aluminum screws! lol But it's true, I needed that kind of help. I dont need the security of a man to keep a roof over my head or food in my mouth. But I do need someone to help me balance the wood!
Seriously, women do live in that fantasy world, of sorts. We are looking for that prince. For me, that prince isnt dressed in white, he isnt riding a pride horse and he certainly isnt saving me from the confines of the tower. Nope! My prince gets up every morning around 5 to pee and starts a pot of coffe because he knows that that an instant cup of coffee pleases me in the morning. My prince washes the lights on my car so that my vision is better at night and helps me to maintain my vehicle. (Dont fret, I have a very reliable vehicle). He will gather the fishing poles on Saturday morning and demand that we take a break, because we really deserve it.
Lets face it. At our age we all have baggage....old loves, lost loves, parents dieing, children becoming adults or in the process at least. Grandchildren. Our own homes. Our own friends. We have trophies and memorabilia from days gone by. Little tidbits of our lives that have been lived but are still a part of who we are.
It takes two mature people to weed through all of this and find their own nesting area amidst the rubble of life.
Am I missing the big picture in searching for this? | |
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| Am I missing the big picture?
Posted: 7/10/2009 3:53:01 AM | | Sounds as if you get the big picture to me, and I am jealous of the fact that you are so talented and know how to do all those things, and think that many of us would love to find a man who would start the coffee in the morning cause he cares. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/10/2009 4:35:10 AM | um so inorder to find a man I should ....quit my job and live off wellfare, or my parents and move back home so that some great guy will come along and rescue me so I can become completely dependent on him for everything....
Bull
I have to live my life as best I know how..and if there is a man in it BONUS..thats awesome and I'm going to enjoy every moment I can of having a relationship that we can support each other with out being dependent on each other. But I've never actually had a man in my life...they just don't seem to interested in loving me...and I can not let that destroy my life because I only have one life to lead...so I live it with out needing a man to make me happy....if someone comes along I don't think he should worry about feeling wanted /appreciated because he would be....but this is 2009 I earn my own keep, I take care of myself. | |
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| Am I missing the big picture?
Posted: 7/10/2009 4:42:08 AM | I still think the reluctance to use the word "need" (in regards to a man) has deeper meaning than just the definitions of want vs need.
I hear these phrases all the time from women without hesitance:
"I need to go the store... I need to have my hair cut... I need to get my nails done... etc. "
However, when it comes to men, there appears to be a prideful view of Needing to be Independent.
Human touch, affection and bonding is vital to infants who otherwise will not develop properly. I believe we are born with this love-need which transfers later in life from our parents to our mates.
I am proud of those humble enough to recognize and proclaim this need without fear of appearing less than whole. | |
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| Are women who don't need men likely to ever find one and be happy?
Posted: 7/10/2009 4:58:59 AM | if we say we don't need you, it's because the only other alternative is to let our lives unravel or otherwise live in a permanent state of inadequacy because we don't have you. now, does that make sense? i don't think so! i mean, what's in it for us? what am i gonna do, cry because i don't have a man? haha.
if we don't have you, we don't need you, and you're nothing.
but if we have you, we need you, and you are EVERYthing.
see how that works?
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| Am I missing the big picture?
Posted: 7/10/2009 5:12:28 AM | Janet,
Nice post....
As I see it...need...has turned in this instance into a dependency....why cannot someone who is independent need another for affection, companionship, intimacy, a sounding board....to fill in all the vacancies in our lives.....oops...my bad...to be independent means there are no vacancies.
Yes, I do need a woman....to say it is a want is also true...but, somehow "want" is lacking...and "need" is overkill....hmmmmm...what word works? | |
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| Am I missing the big picture?
Posted: 7/10/2009 5:56:51 AM |
Janet4ever---However, when it comes to men, there appears to be a prideful view of Needing to be Independent.
Human touch, affection and bonding is vital to infants who otherwise will not develop properly. I believe we are born with this love-need which transfers later in life from our parents to our mates.
Brilliant post, Janet.
Pride gets in the way of finding love and relationships for a lot of people, men and women. The fear that makes people refuse to be vulnerable is an absolute bar to intimacy.
Ultimately, what constitutes the "us" in a relationship is built on what part of self each surrenders to the greater whole. Those who have predetermined not to surrender any of self, fiercely focused on shoring up "independence", are afraid to be vulnerable, and therefore incapable of finding a greater "us".
When I read someone's profile, who goes out of her way to say how much she "doesn't need a man", I immediately have an expectation that she's someone incapable of true, deep intimacy.
I don't know why this seems to be a "female thing". I don't hear men, who have their lives in order, making a point to say "I don't need a woman". I know that I do need a woman, if I am to find that which is missing. If I want romantic love in my life, I need to have a woman in my life. I can survive, function, find happiness and purpose without having love in my life, but "something's missing", so I'm not too proud to admit "need" for something that isnt in my immediate control. | |
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| Am I missing the big picture?
Posted: 7/10/2009 6:21:19 AM | Janet4ever---However, when it comes to men, there appears to be a prideful view of Needing to be Independent.
Human touch, affection and bonding is vital to infants who otherwise will not develop properly. I believe we are born with this love-need which transfers later in life from our parents to our mates.
@Janet4Ever - excellent answer!
That is actually a level of psychological development... where we "transfer this love-need from our parents to our mates" Oddly enough, I was reading about it just last nite.
RenaissanceMan1950 --- I don't know why this seems to be a "female thing". I don't hear men, who have their lives in order, making a point to say "I don't need a woman". I know that I do need a woman, if I am to find that which is missing. If I want romantic love in my life, I need to have a woman in my life. I can survive, function, find happiness and purpose without having love in my life, but "something's missing", so I'm not too proud to admit "need" for something that isnt in my immediate control.
I think one of the main reasons it is more of a "female thing" is because of the abuse in our society... sad, but true. Statistically, 4 out of 5 women have been abused by the age of 30 - emotional, physical or mental abuse - take your pick. Control of one's life is diminished in a controlling relationship.... (not just a partner relationship either, it could also be a parent or sibling relationship) and then when they leave that situation, they vow to themself to never let that happen again.
Another reason, IMO, is that it is a more socially acceptable viewpoint that men have "physical needs" and women's "needs" are supposedly not as strong - LOL, not like I agree with that view, but it is obviously still very prevalent as is shown by our forums. So, for a man to say he "needs" a woman is not so uncommon and as threatening to society's norm as it is for a woman to admit she "needs" a man. It takes a lot of courage to step outside of the socially acceptable boundaries. (IE: how many men would admit to being emotional enough to crying in a movie?... or to reading a romance novel?)
I am like you, Renaissance Man... I will openly admit I "need" a man... not to pay my bills or the physical needs of life... food, water, shelter, etc. BUT... I do need a man to fulfill my "need" to love and be loved... and the need for adult intimacy... but I didn't always think that way - we all grow and learn in the path of life.
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