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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/9/2009 4:49:42 PM |
'Enjoy your own life without comparing it with that of another.'
Macforty is right: it's the tranny of comparison (it always comes up). Two things: don't compare yourself to others (unless you're aspiring, rather than resenting) and don't hang out with people who make you feel unhappy. Why do you think I've only got two friends! ;). | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/9/2009 4:53:59 PM | One person can only be superior to another if the first person allows/believes that to be the situation.
Yes there are 'pecking orders' but they can vary depending on the situation. Being superior at work does not necessarily mean you are superior at home/relationship.
And how many feelings of superiority are illusions.
We are all equal, it just depends on how we choose to portray ouselves. Am I any better than someone who has no work, no - am just luckier that i have a job.
Is someone on 40k a year better than me -possibly financially but it doesn't make them better than me necessarily
I do agree however that there is a pecking order, just the same as there is in the 'animal kingdom', difference in our society is that unlike the 'animal world' anyone can change their position without fighting and casting out. | |
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Joe1uk
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Joined: 6/10/2009
Msg: 53 | |
| Superiority.
Posted: 7/9/2009 5:01:38 PM | | We allow the pecking order in our social lives though. It may not be our choice at work but it is in our social lives. | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/9/2009 5:19:05 PM | Thats the whole thing tho Josh, WE allow assumed pecking orders to take place socially. I guess every single one of us is guilty in one respect or another.
I have a job, it's a job thats all, I don't rent, big deal, I have a car, who cares - only the people who feel they 'need' those things to 'compete' with me - when the truth is, I don't want to compete with anyone, I am just me. I don't care who has better or more than me. Take all the trappings away and underneath we are all the same and it is down to a different set of rules, and social does not matter - its down to animal instinct and the strongest physically and mentally will be highest in the pecking order
If that makes any sense | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/9/2009 5:24:00 PM |
Is the idea that we are all equall a myth that those lower down the pecking order choose to beleive to assuage their own feelings of inadequacy?
Probably to the same extent that the arrogance of some technically qualified people seems to over-inflate their own feelings of self-worth. | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/9/2009 5:33:37 PM | Alex, I think maybe you are being specific, but people in general can only over-inflate their feelings of self- worth to themselves unless they can convince other people they are correct.
Is a technically qualified person more important than a binman - well I know who I would rather have visiting every other week (I mean workwise lol)
Something I learned in the RAF is that there is no such thing as an insignificant cog in the big wheel.
So what if some people want to think they are better than others, it's only when others see them as better that it matters. | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/9/2009 5:38:18 PM |
Alex, I think maybe you are being specific
Yes, I was being very specific. | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/9/2009 11:31:19 PM |
Is a technically qualified person more important than a binman - well I know who I would rather have visiting every other week (I mean workwise lol)
The OP has posted his views on that-msg 36. | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:01:17 AM |
Yes, I was being very specific.
The funny thing is, the question I asked in the OP was about YOUR views on a subject I have merely observed in the forums. And yet it's become personal.
Am I important? You bet I am!!
Personally? To me, and a few people I pay to like me.
Professionally? Yep, as part of a team of people, I provide my PART of an overal pool of skill and knowledge.
In the overal scheme of things? Not particularly!! When I die I will leave behind a few buildings I constructed.........but no one will ever remember who built them. I will leave behind some people who love me and remember me for the impact I've had on their lives............but they too will die one day and I'll be forgotten.
It does tittle me though that there are people on the internet who will assume another person's views without even taking the trouble too ask. | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:17:40 AM | Coming in late, haven't read it all as it started to get to "you said, I said"...
If yer talking about accumilating wealth, I would ask first, how did ye get that wealth, by exploiting people more disadvantaged than oneself? By avoiding paying taxes (don't deny self employed don't do this, my father was self employed all his days)? Unscrupilous methods?
A wealthy person occupies their mind to attaining monetary wealth, a person on the dole occupies their mind by gaining simple day to day existence...
I remember I was long term on the dole...Has some time to go for long walks in the country, read phylosophy, history, social nastinesses (like wealthy factory owners), build motorbikes, paint, observe nature, observe humans, and contemplated my navel....
If it's not about money, then what is the wealthy person giving back to society, ye mentioned he has no time (slipped that "there's what you said") so what exactly are they giving back which they exploited back to society?
Nature and the pecking order?...when you observe little birdies playing in the trees singing to each other, they're not singing, they're not playing, they're playing a game of life, they're telling each other to get off they're tree because if they let other birds there, they'll go hungry...Using nature as an analogy is quite apt...the finacial world is the same, a world of nasty dealings and exploitation...
Nope, one who has accumilated wealth, are in my opinion not better persons, they are more than likely bereft of any kind of humanity, and more natural than some others.... | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:25:54 AM |
It does tittle me though that there are people on the internet who will assume another person's views without even taking the trouble too ask.
Er.........and what about the views that are clearly written down?
And yet it's become personal.
It usually does when people start bragging about themselves.......ooh look!....."Am I important? You bet I am!"........another example.
One person can only be superior to another if the first person allows/believes that to be the situation.
I disagree......I feel superior over some people who have no idea of my existence. | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:32:55 AM | they are more than likely bereft of any kind of humanity
I completely disagree with this.
I have found that most people who have reached middle or senior management positions and above in fact tend to be quite caring.
Of course they work within competetive structures and as such sometimes have to take decisions which do not benefit and individual.
That said, I often find that people lower down the pecking order in the given profession have little care or understanding of the lenghts their bosses often go to to protect them! A case in point:
A while ago I had a subcontractor about to start a job. The company was part of a franchise and the franchise went bust due to the recession. The structure of the company was that we pay the franchise, the franchise pays the bills for materials and then pays what is owed to the contractor.
We have a relationship with the contractor and like them. They decided, since their business was profit making and they had two large clients including us............they would set up themselves. This takes time to do. Almost a month as it turns out.
We could have bought the material ourselves, had it delivered to site, and procured a new company to carry out the works within around 3 days, and due to the recession, we probably could have got it cheaper that way too.
We didn't. We took the decision to wait until the contractor was set up and able to start works, delaying the start of a critical path element of the job.
We asked that the company worked overtime and weekends to make up some of the time because OUR client still demanded the project be delivered on time. They would not have been interested in why the project was late.
The company were more than willing to do this.
Visiting site one day, I was talking to the guys on site, and they started complaining!!!! They complained that we were holding them to ransom and making them work weekends without extra pay!!!!
I politely explained that in fact, we had spent many hours re organising many other contractors to meet in with the new program, we had ourselves guaranteed the cost of materials to the supplier, and paid a vestment as soon as materials were on site. That in fact, the only reason they still had a job at all was because of us, and it had put us out considerably.
Did they understand and say thank you?? did they hell!!!!
So you tell me, who was the more caring there, the big bad corporation or the poor innocent guys doing the work?
The above is NOT in any way an unusual way for a company to behave, and companies are owned by those wealthy people you have so little regard for.
Er.........and what about the views that are clearly written down?
It usually does when people start bragging about themselves.......ooh look!....."Am I important? You bet I am!"........another example.
The real example there is selective cutting and pasting, neatly ignoring the following three sentences where I DESCRIBE how I'm important:
Am I important? You bet I am!!
Personally? To me, and a few people I pay to like me.
Professionally? Yep, as part of a team of people, I provide my PART of an overal pool of skill and knowledge.
In the overal scheme of things? Not particularly!! When I die I will leave behind a few buildings I constructed.........but no one will ever remember who built them. I will leave behind some people who love me and remember me for the impact I've had on their lives............but they too will die one day and I'll be forgotten
Yes, how boastful of me to say that people who love me will miss me, and that in almost every other way, I'll be forgotten!!!!
no...you where protecting your interest, your trust, you know the other company will do the job as you wish, and not give you trouble, its how business works...to tell me otherwise would be patronising or lying to oneself...
There is a small element of truth here, we have a relationship with them, That said, we build 18 to 20 projects a year and there are companies falling over themselves to be on our tender list. It's really not difficult for us to replace them with someone equally good.
But the above does illustrate YOUR views quite well!
Probably in the same lodge in any case...Or are you both members of Common Purpose?
Ah, suspicion that it's all a conspiracy against you to keep you in your place?
Says it all really.
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:44:25 AM | no...you where protecting your interest, your trust, you know the other company will do the job as you wish, and not give you trouble, its how business works...to tell me otherwise would be patronising or lying to oneself...
Probably in the same lodge in any case...Or are you both members of Common Purpose? | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:46:15 AM |
'some people think they're better than everyone else' or a similar kind of statement.
So my question is, ARE some people better than others?
Big difference, It is much different for someone to think themselves better than someone else thinking that person is better !! | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:56:05 AM |
The real example there is selective cutting and pasting
I am the one who decides which part of a post I'll quote, thank you.....
I chose the part of a post which contained an example of 'bragging', and that was all I needed to do to prove my point!
Yes, how boastful of me to say that people who love me will miss me, and that in almost every other way, I'll be forgotten!
Yes, it was an example of 'bragging' to mention how loved you are by certain people! | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/10/2009 1:00:15 AM |
I chose the part of a post which contained an example of 'bragging', and that was all I needed to do to prove my point!
But it proves no point unless it includes context.
You may as well just cut and paste the individual letters to make any sentence you wish, it is much the same effect. They are letters I typed after all.
Yes, how boastful of me to say that people who love me will miss me, and that in almost every other way, I'll be forgotten!
Yes, it was an example of 'bragging' to mention how loved you are by certain people!
I'm actually lost for words! | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/10/2009 1:05:43 AM |
Yes, it was an example of 'bragging' to mention how loved you are by certain people!
Are you sure about that ZeeGary? Is it not just stating the obvious? I could certainly say the same, and I expect you could as well. I've been an important infulence in peoples likes and I continue to be,that will change when I die, and (hopefully) it will be remembered. But then that memory dies too.... thats no different to what the poster said but I do not consider that is me bragging or boasting. | |
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*kath*
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Joined: 9/30/2008
Msg: 68 | |
| Superiority.
Posted: 7/10/2009 1:39:34 AM | | I get the feeling that when your head is that far up your own arse you begin to get used to the smell of your own shite then its probably time to re assess yourself. | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/10/2009 2:02:21 AM |
But it proves no point unless it includes context.
Not necessarily.
You may as well just cut and paste the individual letters to make any sentence you wish, it is much the same effect. They are letters I typed after all.
But then it wouldn't be a 'quote', would it?
(can't believe I had to write that, but still......)
You commented that parts of the thread had become 'personal'. I merely claimed that threads go get 'personal' if people put 'personal' aspects into them, and used an example to prove my point.
Whether or not you contend that I had 'proved' my point is totally irrelevant - no-one is forced to believe anything here.
MSG 74
Are you sure about that ZeeGary? Is it not just stating the obvious? I could certainly say the same, and I expect you could as well. I've been an important infulence in peoples likes and I continue to be,that will change when I die, and (hopefully) it will be remembered. But then that memory dies too.... thats no different to what the poster said but I do not consider that is me bragging or boasting.
Boast: talk with excessive pride and self-satisfaction about oneself.
Brag: boast.
I consider that stating that people love you is a form of 'pride', as is claiming to be 'important'. | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/10/2009 2:09:36 AM | zeegary
my point is totally irrelevant
Are you sure quoting out of context is a good thing? | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/10/2009 2:10:46 AM |
Boast: talk with excessive pride and self-satisfaction about oneself.
Brag: boast.
I consider that stating that people love you is a form of 'pride', as is claiming to be 'important'
My reply to this would be that your definition says EXCESSIVE pride.
Also your interpretation that to feel you are important to someone you love is pride at all is something I'd argue with if I had the inclination.
But going back to the 'excessive pride' bit, well, perhaps the problem here is that you and me are working to different datums?
I have some people in my life who love me and consider me to be important to them. But by your own definition, you consider this to be 'excessive boasting'
Does this mean that no one loves you at all, and therefore you consider anyone saying that someone DOES love them is somewhat excessive?
It would explain an AWFUL lot. | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/10/2009 2:22:08 AM | In my job (and in my personal life) I make a point of looking at the question in the whole. In my question, as you rightly point out in your first reply, there were the two elements of status and generosity. I was if you like offering the opposite scenario to the rich chap in the bible who makes a show of giving gold coins to the collection plate, while the poorer person makes a penny donation which represents a much larger portion of their wealth.
This really is pretty obvious, or at least, it would be to me if I were reading it because I assume that people type each individual word for a reason rather than a mere penchant for key bashing.
No it was not obvious, nor was the aboive parralel evident in your initial post, in fact your giving the example of a indiviuals wealth again in the above example, and in the first post, and complain when readers of your contradictory posts show your only concerned with peoples wealth in society.
No, someone else mentioned elephants and ants and I said if we are talking exitentially, I'd agree, they might be equal, but that comparing different species was not the 'question'
Your posted "
I am talking in society. In that context, yes, an elephant is massively superior to an ant in almost every way."
Now your claim to be see the big picture, ie society and the individuals who make up society,yet you also wrote
Nowhere in my question or postings have I given my opinion as to the overal worth of any single or group of elephant's worth to the community of Didsbury or elshewhere.
Now you wrote that you see the big picture , claim an elephant is "massively superior to an ant in almost every way" when dealling with the big picture.
Yet dont understaqnd that the pinnacle in nature of individuals sacrificed to the society they are in is to be found in the socail order of insects of ants/termites/bees.
I suggest reading the thread if you want to comment. You're in error, I have no fixation on elephants and didn't bring them into it.
Because i read where you posted factually incorrect nonsense about social insects being inferior to social mamamals in their contribution to society, its not an error to comment on your post concerning elephants and ants and there social equavalence, because they have no factual basis.
I don't know if you've seen the film 'Zoolander', but this reminds me of the scene where the guy goes up to the stage to pick up an award he thinks he's won.
I do know you want to post about social models yet dont know that Ants/Termites/Bees etc are used as the "selfless society" to show that the individual counts for nothing and society is all, and that these societys that dont re produce unless mandated outside their will, are worked or fought to death through pheromones, contribute less to their society than do elephants, who have only instinct to drive themselves.
I also know your incapable of admitting your not very well read and like to post on things you have no concept or grasp of, heres a thought, less film watching, more reading of books, and the game set match will make sense to you.
Actually, I 'm not concerned at all.(wealth) I was merely posing one of many possible scenarios to see what people would make of it.
Odd that wealth money appear in so many of your posts then right?, including your biblical refernce to show what you say your not concerned with is in fact what your concerned with.
Is a disabled person simply a drain on society and of lesser intrinsic worth since they seldom contribute to society in the same way as the able bodied?.
Well, this is partly the question I am asking.
It depends what you beleive, doesn't it?
I beleive a person who lazes away on a sofa spending my tax money is near worthless.
I beleive a disabled person is that way through no fault of their own and fully deserves the use of any tax money I pay, INCLUDING that portion which goes to the lazy bugger currently on the sofa watching 'Trish'
But this is just my belief.
Its societys tax money, not yours. You believe it to be yours and should be spent acording to your belifs, thankfully society is not a product of your wishes.
Actually, this is something I have always maintained. That society needs everyone. Even the criminals. And yes, even the people I think of as worthless.
Except of course your post show that you want to feel superior ( and becasuse of your wealth no doubt)to those in society you think worthless, what would you do without them eh?. | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/10/2009 2:30:58 AM |
And I understand Engineering, Biology to a lesser extent and even some basic chemistry.
Hardly seems likly since you dont know that pheromones are how social insects are controlled, split into castes, which force them to act in a manner that makes them sacrifice themselves, unlike Elephants who have no such imperatives to overcome there instincts.
I can build apartment blocks, supermarkets and have built an entire retail park.
I have worked on the London eye, Cardifs Staidium, Heathrow T5, Wimbledon`s new roof and scores of Hospitals, Police Station and custody suites and HM Prisons, by your measure i find you to be well, worthless to society in the big picture. | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/10/2009 2:36:21 AM | MSG 77
Are you sure quoting out of context is a good thing?
It is only a 'bad' thing if the quoted section mis-represent a poster - that is a forum violation.
For instance, if I were to state in a post: " if I were 'gay' , then no-one would be surprised to learn that I have sex with other men", and another poster quoted the bit "I have sex with other men", then that would be mis-representation (as well as being false).
The section I quoted, and indeed every quote I make, did not mis-represent the poster.
HTH
MSG 78
My reply to this would be that your definition says EXCESSIVE pride.
Then we get onto a personal definition of 'excessive'...let's not go there!
Also your interpretation that to feel you are important to someone you love is pride at all is something I'd argue with if I had the inclination.
And where exactly did I refer to that?
The original comment occurred in MSG 65:
I will leave behind some people who love me
Then, in MSG 69, it was re-stated:
how boastful of me to say that people who love me
At no point was any reference made to people who we love!
I do wish people would respond to what I have written, and not to things they think I have written.
I have some people in my life who love me and consider me to be important to them. But by your own definition, you consider this to be 'excessive boasting' #
And where exactly did I use the term 'excessive boasting'?
Does this mean that no one loves you at all, and therefore you consider anyone saying that someone DOES love them is somewhat excessive?
No, but I consider stating that fact to be an example of 'excessive pride'.
It would explain an AWFUL lot.
Is there any chance you could explain that comment without making derogatory comments about me? | |
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| Superiority.
Posted: 7/10/2009 2:51:22 AM |
nor was the aboive parralel evident in your initial post, in fact your giving the example of a indiviuals wealth again in the above example, and in the first post, and complain when readers of your contradictory posts show your only concerned with peoples wealth in society
In the parallel above the use of wealth was given quite obviously to indicate that the wealth of the person was not directly related to the generosity of a person. One of the components I feel of a person's 'worth'
Now you wrote that you see the big picture , claim an elephant is "massively superior to an ant in almost every way" when dealling with the big picture.
Yet dont understaqnd that the pinnacle in nature of individuals sacrificed to the society they are in is to be found in the socail order of insects of ants/termites/bees
It really isn't my problem that you have difficulty with context.
Firstly, you will of course have noted the use of the qualifier 'almost' suggesting that there are areas where the ant is superior to the elephant in SOME ways.
Secondly, I'd be interested in why you think that I have no understanding of insect society. What is in question is whether this in itself, from your initial argument that they sacrifice themselves constitutes being 'superior'
Many would argue the opposite. I personally think you're a little confused, and way off the topic.
Because i read where you posted factually incorrect nonsense about social insects being inferior to social mamamals in their contribution to society, its not an error to comment on your post concerning elephants and ants and there social equavalence, because they have no factual basis.
I have never compared mamals and insects' contribution to society. What I did say was that I beleive the elephant to be a superior creature to an ant in most ways. This is because I value the social structure of an elephant society more than I do that of an ant. If we are talking biologically, the elephant wins hnads down as being the most complex creature.
I do know you want to post about social models yet dont know that Ants/Termites/Bees etc are used as the "selfless society" to show that the individual counts for nothing and society is all, and that these societys that dont re produce unless mandated outside their will, are worked or fought to death through pheromones, contribute less to their society than do elephants, who have only instinct to drive themselves.
Do you always go around making assumptions about what a person does and doesn't know? Again, I will refer you to the above. You may value the idea of a selfless society taken to the insect extreme. being a human, I do not. Nor do I see it as relevent to the OP in any way as I indicated a long time ago.
I also know your incapable of admitting your not very well read and like to post on things you have no concept or grasp of, heres a thought, less film watching, more reading of books, and the game set match will make sense to you.
Fell free to message me. I will give you my email address. Then we can swap pictures of each other's bookshelves. It will help you out a little with this assumption making you seem to insist on carrying on with.
I do know you want to post about social models yet dont know that Ants/Termites/Bees etc are used as the "selfless society" to show that the individual counts for nothing and society is all, and that these societys that dont re produce unless mandated outside their will, are worked or fought to death through pheromones, contribute less to their society than do elephants, who have only instinct to drive themselves. Odd that wealth money appear in so many of your posts then right?, I never denied that money is important to ME, I.E. that I have it. It is not something I care one way or another about in people I choose as friends though, I merely insist that they are in some way engaging
including your biblical refernce to show what you say your not concerned with is in fact what your concerned with
Reading is good. But really, there is little point unless you are able to understand what you are reading, and you clearly don't understand the entire point of that bible story. I'd imagine the author is currently groaning in his grave.
Its societys tax money, not yours. You believe it to be yours and should be spent acording to your belifs, .
It belongs to society only after I have given it.
thankfully society is not a product of your wishes
Thankfully, society is not a product of ANY one person's wishes. Thats really the point of society and democracy, or so I was lead to beleive.
Except of course your post show that you want to feel superior to those in society you think worthless, what would you do without them eh?.
Ah, I see. So it's not possible to dislike a person or persons, yet still see the need for them then?
Ok.
Lastly. Please re read your entire post. It comes across as nothing more than a rant. A personal one at that.
Quoting from one of my favourite programs, Scrubs:
Buzzzzzzzzz, Buzzzzzzzzzzzz, Buzzzzzzzzzzz, Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
what's that noise?
That's the sound of the bees in your bonnet.
And don't get me wrong, I couldn't give a rats bottom, but it's still a lovely sound. | |
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