| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 5:57:18 AM |
Thank you OhDriver. Finally, somebody with the compassion and empathy to get it.
OP, you asked for opinions. Anyone putting themselves out here like that has to expect that many of the posts will disagree with you. Yet all I've seen you do is rip those you disagree with, and with posts like the one I copied, try to sway opinion to agree with you.
From your statement I take it that those of us that don't agree with your stance have no compassion or empathy. Actually I'm hurt by that, but I wouldn't spend an hour trying to get you to see it my way, or expect an apology. And I certainly wouldn't make you walk home either. After all, I am a gentlemen even if I am considered an uncompassionate, unempathetic one.
OP you've gotten a lot of good comments here that don't exactly agree with your point of view. I hope you take them to heart. And I wish you well. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 6:26:11 AM | I don't think that saying "I'm sorry" or the inability thereof is a gender issue. I think it might have to do with a slew of other things, personalty, attitude, belief system and the like.
That being said, I don't think anyone can be convinced to apologize, especially at our age. From your post, it is apparent that you felt slighted, hurt, or discounted. It appears that the gent didn't value what you were feeling. Why try to keep someone in your life who doesn't value you? Why try to convince a person to value you or your emotions? It just happens that some people will value you and some won't. Talking for an hour is just wasting precious time. Serves no real purpose except to exasperate both of you.
Well, probably would have given the man a ride home. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 6:37:04 AM | People in general will only say they're sorry if they believe they have done something wrong or are just patronizing someone. You do not give enough specific information as to why you were offended for anyone to justify your position. I think Anjelic had it right from the beginning. You say that it took an hour long conversation to convince you to breakup with this guy and that you should have done it long ago. Well, that would have been a fine adult(maybe) conversation had you concluded, driven him home and said farewell. Putting him out of the car was an act of retribution for all of the slights that you felt over your history and displays a vindictive nature that is not all that much different than those men who have demanded sex and put women out of their cars when the answer was no. What would you think of a man who did the exact same thing to you or your daughter, mother or best friend. The fact that it was not far means nothing,it was a control issue most likely. You exhibit this tendency in your profile as well [" So, turn off that Blackberry and focus."] This statement screams me me me me....and would be a big red flag to most.
I think that you found the responses interesting because you expected at least the women to jump on board, but as I said, you did not furnish enough information for reasonable answers to the actual question(which by the way should have been "Why is it tough for this man to say he's sorry?).
Once again,I ask what people here would think of and call me if I picked a woman up and did not see her back home for any reason short of her trying to kill me? | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 6:37:04 AM | I must say this is the best laugh I've had in a while....
We've all got, had, or known kids that if they don't get the answer they're looking for, they just change the wording slightly and keep asking.....
You must be able to move your butt like one of those paint mixers at Sherwin Williams, otherwise I can't see what kept him in the car for an hour.... | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 7:22:00 AM | Holy crap, Batman! I've just read through this whole thread. It's been a facinating, enlightening and educational experience. Do I get a credit for making my way through what could best be described as Psychology 101? Can't wait for the next semester to start.  | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 7:27:38 AM | Actually Ringo, having a Blackberry on is incredibly rude and I would never do it when I'm with somebody. So if you think it says me, me , me- maybe it's you you you. Because to the person with the Blackberry,they clearly see their time and availability as more important than being wholly present with the person they're with.
I appreciate the responses and don't believe I ripped into anybody. Unfortunately, people don't have the full picture and that's fine. But I have found many men who don't apologize. I don't know any women like that so that is the reason for my post. I find people who don't acknowledge another person's feelings very self-centred. I think it's not about whether the facts are right or wrong, it's about your willingness to recognize somebody else's feelings. And when you stubbornly refute them, that is setting you both up for an argument and an escalation of the situation. I am thick skinned but I also won't accept somebody diminishing what I feel and dismissing it.
So where I agree is I should have ended it at 10 minutes. I thought it was worth the investment of time since this man told me he is trying to learn about feelings and emotions. But I sense his defensiveness and ego get in the way. He needed to be right and i needed to be acknowledged.
Lesson learned. Don't waste my time next time. I cared about him and was trying to hold on to a friendship and knew I couldn't if this was present. I told him to get out of the car because I knew the situation was escalating. Better to leave than have a big fight. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 7:29:22 AM | | No tinker, but if you'll call me within the next twenty minutes I'll send you two shamwow's and a potato peeler for the price of what this is all worth. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 7:40:44 AM |
Actually Ringo, having a Blackberry on is incredibly rude and I would never do it when I'm with somebody. So if you think it says me, me , me- maybe it's you you you. Because to the person with the Blackberry,they clearly see their time and availability as more important than being wholly present with the person they're with.
I appreciate the responses and don't believe I ripped into anybody. Unfortunately, people don't have the full picture and that's fine. But I have found many men who don't apologize. I don't know any women like that so that is the reason for my post. I find people who don't acknowledge another person's feelings very self-centred. I think it's not about whether the facts are right or wrong, it's about your willingness to recognize somebody else's feelings. And when you stubbornly refute them, that is setting you both up for an argument and an escalation of the situation. I am thick skinned but I also won't accept somebody diminishing what I feel and dismissing it.
So where I agree is I should have ended it at 10 minutes. I thought it was worth the investment of time since this man told me he is trying to learn about feelings and emotions. But I sense his defensiveness and ego get in the way. He needed to be right and i needed to be acknowledged.
Lesson learned. Don't waste my time next time. I cared about him and was trying to hold on to a friendship and knew I couldn't if this was present. I told him to get out of the car because I knew the situation was escalating. Better to leave than have a big fight.
I'm glad you have a thick skin northerndreamer. But count me as one that feels you were judged harshly by many in this thread without all the facts or knowing anything about you. I've learned that when I post things sensitive and passionate to me, I have to expect many that will judge me and not begin to really understand where I'm coming from.
It's sad if not sick how so many come here to attack someone that is down and reaching out for help and maybe even some sympathy, that we have people that will do all they can to make us feel worse! The lack of compassion, understanding and even sympathy in all the forums is down right discouraging.
I don't think you deserved the abuse you suffered from your post here. Maybe I missed something, don't think I did, but I only scanned some of the posts. but still, people like to come here and hurt others. Sad as it is. I don't get it. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 7:41:51 AM | My dear lady (sorry if that offends you) you have illustrated exactly what people here have been saying: everyone will not agree that having a blackberry on in a partners presence is rude. I will go so far as to say that the vast majority would not accept that idea. If asked to apologize for hurting your feelings because I was on a blackberry, telephone, watching the history channel or football, I would not do so. I would agree that technology has allowed workaholics to become completely immersed in their own worlds even more if that's possible, but that speaks to one particular type of person and not gender specific. Also,if you feel that someone should be willing to focus completely on you because of their feelings for you, then be thankful for the indicators to the contrary and move along.
Do you mind if I ask in which field you hold your doctorate? | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 7:52:41 AM | Ringo: I guess I wouldn't be friends with or date the vast majority of people. I find modern technology has created a world of self-centred people who have forgotten that relationships and people are what count. And these devices separate us from them.
My doctorate is in education but I have my own business working with individuals and companies in building trusting relationships. I did my doctorate research in Trust. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 8:04:32 AM | | Then I would say trust in God and yourself. I have clients who I can trust to say" screw you" and those I can trust to say how can we work together. It's once again all relevant to your position(a true constant in the universe, gee that Einstein, what a guy!). | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 8:10:18 AM |
Mature people don't assume that there is only one way of looking at things.
"mature people" don't try to minimize what others have said to them by claiming "maturity" as a high horse from which to make pronouncements.
And people without ego are able to put themselves aside and care about others.
people with egos are perfectly capable of caring.
as i said to you in my other post - there are ways of handling these things. an hour-long lecture isn't one of them. no matter what your history is with someone. since it sounds like you've settled into a pattern of people who treat you this way, you might want to learn what it is that makes YOU pick them and try to deal with them all the same ways you did in the past. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 8:54:35 AM | >>>> I find people who don't acknowledge another person's feelings very self-centred. I think it's not about whether the facts are right or wrong, it's about your willingness to recognize somebody else's feelings.
Northern Dreamer - I'm sorry but some of your replies actually refute this nice wee vision you have of yourself..... You are calling people who disagree with you lacking in compassion and empathy, amongst other mild insults . ...... and to be honest that's kind of self-centred and disrespectful of those others' points of view, which after all you solicited... is it not? You are not taking their comments on board, learning from them, and seeing how you could change your own behaviour to be more reasonable in future, just fighting your own wee corner - bit like the man in the car then?? Reads that way to me.....
Minx | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 9:05:23 AM | I have learned that everyone comes from a different reference point and that what feels like an insult maybe just someones normal lingo that is different than mine.
I try to live by 4 rules
Be impeccable with your word
Dont make assumptions
Take nothing Personally
Do your best in everything
these rules are part of the Life 4 agreements from Don Miquel Ruiz.
This has really helped me understand the actions of others are not always personal.
If someone is draining your energy by talking down to you then you need to voice your opinion and if they can not alter their actions to make you feel more comfortabe than they are not worth your time.
Being respectful of someones feelings is part of being a loving human being. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 9:09:44 AM | Gosh Dreamer, tell you what, why don't we just as an entire forum say =
"Yes, Dreamer, we're sorry - you are right and we all are wrong"..... because obviously to disagree with you means that we are lacking in compassion and empathy - hmmmmmmm......
Incidentally, going on at a person for an hour or more is indicative of poorly suppressed anger or rage, and is a common factor within abusive relationships.......
I can recommend some good websites on abusive relationships and behaviour, incidentally - from your initial post you are displaying at least two of the classic indicators. And before you accuse me again of lack of empathy or compassion, perhaps you might yourself have the compassion and empathy to wonder how come I know??
Minx.
http://www.recovery-man.com/abusive/abusive.htm
http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/Abuser/signs.htm
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 9:19:52 AM | Okay, I have to chime in here. This thread is really starting to take some nasty twists and turns and some really not so very polite things are being said. Maybe it's time to take a step back, a deep breath and try to temper any further responses. Better still, maybe it's time to put this thread to rest.
Try to get along, folks.
Tink  | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 9:30:30 AM | OP.
I can tell by the way that you communicate, that you are a very well educated, estute, and evolved individual. That being said, you are often dealing with some of the same issues I have struggles with--- how you are treated by others.
Fact of life. If we set standards of behavior for oursselves, that does not necessarily mean that others will reciprocate, especially men. If you feel many of them are self centered and lack empathy, congratulations, you win the prize for actually seeing reality as it is.
Why do you think they are dating in the first place? Mostly it is to find a sex partner, who is as little work, hassle and expense as necessary. Especially once they are older and have their life routines in place. They aren`t going to accomdate someone elsse`s values or morals systems. They aren`t there to make you happy, nor do they care. They basically are looking for a no muss or fuss, attractive sex partner ---period. That , dear lady is reality.
For myself, I do not expect men to have any form of values scruples or integrity.. I assume that they don`t. If they do have any common decency within them, it is a bonus., and good behavior makes me joyous. I would rather not be disappointed.
You would be less disappointed if your expectations of men were alot lower.Not that there aren`t a few out there that would be able to reach your bar, but for the most part, they won`t , and you would be advised not to expect it. I view them more like wild dogs, who can possibly be trained to be petted and not bite, but you can never quite trust them to not revert back to their carnal nature, returning to the pack to run, hunt and howl. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 9:31:35 AM | | Tink, I'm not trying to be nasty, in fact, the direct opposite. I said that the poster mentioned things which were indicative of an abusive relationship - not that she was the abuser. In fact, the person who is hurting and reacting the most (as she seems to be) is often the one in trouble. That is what I was getting at.... | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 11:52:23 AM | Well dreamer sometimes the problems with the sorry, sometimes the admitting. First of all to say you were sorry means you know you did something wrong. If you dont think you did anything wrong their is nothing to apologize for. Many folks on here, men and women, are of the opinion that they are right all or at least most of the time. Sometimes saying sorry is tough simply because it puts you at another persons mercy in a manner of speaking. what do i do if i say (and mean) i am sorry and you choose not to forgive? do i go on begging foregiveness, tell you to take a hike? how do you handle that one? most men, being natural problem solvers, even if they sorry they just want to forget about it. most women, being more invested in relationships (again rules not laws here) want to think on it, mull it, deal with the fealings. the reactions to sorry adn the act of apologizing can be wildly different for men v women. not excusing rude behavior or stubbor refusal to admit a wrong but keep in mind law one of the old parrothead's sixteen laws, nobody does nothing for no reason. must be some reason ol boy cant say sorry, all you know for sure at this point is that he "should" say it and hes not. the rest is your interpretation.  | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 12:25:34 PM |
You kicked him out of your car because he wouldn't apologize???? I think the most important topic of this thread should be *your* behaviour, your reaction and your solution.
If a man ever kicked me out of his car for any reason, I would never, ever be with him again. It's adolescent and controlling in the extreme.
Inability to apologize is not gender specific. Interesting that you make it a gender issue.
Believe me this is not meant to attack the OP in any way shape or form. Whatever the situation is how we react to it should not be impulsive. It sounds like this discussion went on for too long a time and temperatures did rise. Just my opinion here if I find myself in such a situation I will usually walk away from discourse and think about just what happened here.
Often I will sleep on it and by morning it is not nearly the big deal I thought it was.
This can happen to me when I feel very passionate about something. So sometimes I have to reign in my personal passion about that particular subject but I must admit I am not always good at it.. but usually can in a few minutes time.
Sounds like the end result though was the desired result by these both parties.. Which is the positive part of this..
If I do not feel a man cares about my feelings why motivation is there to want to date him.
I probably would have quietly driven him home and said goodbye.
thecatsmeoww | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 12:30:38 PM |
Actually Ringo, having a Blackberry on is incredibly rude and I would never do it when I'm with somebody. So if you think it says me, me , me- maybe it's you you you. Because to the person with the Blackberry,they clearly see their time and availability as more important than being wholly present with the person they're with.
It can be incredibly rude when you are in an intimate setting with another. So is incessently talking on a cell phone when in company. However, the command from your profile:
So, turn off that Blackberry and focus.
is directed at your general readership, and not one specific person who is acting rude in front of you. It comes across as controlling and alpha female. It probably attracts male wusses who want to be dominated. Have you considered a dominatrix type relationship? You can train your sub-partners to focus on you and your feelings, apologise, validate you and beg forgiveness - a win/win situation. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 12:38:57 PM | OK, the blackberry thing.
If you need to talk to your daughter/son when on a date with me, it's ok as long as there is an explanation and a bit of politeness. Who knows, maybe the house is burning down!
If you're making plans with your buddy for next weekend and talking incessantly, that's rude.
If you own your own business and need to confirm an appointment with your client, how long can it take, a few seconds? Fine. We all need to make a living and self employed people really have to hustle.
There are exceptions to everything. If it happens that you're on your phone or texting all the time, well that's rude! And we never go out again. Your loss. . . You made the date with me to get to know me, not to impress me by how popular you are (by talking on the phone). I'm already impressed, I went out with you!!!!! | |
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