| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 1:36:05 PM | msg 73: "First of all to say you were sorry means you know you did something wrong."
Sorry vs. wrong - huge, invaluable difference which MUST be understood!
"I was wrong for (blank)." - My statement of truth.
"And I'm sorry." - My ***gift*** to her. (another statement of truth)
Whether she accepts both or not, whether she viciously-iciously twists either statement into something else, is Who The Heck Cares Cuz I Spoke My Truth.
Wake Up! all you male wusses... She don't got anything on Me as the result of speaking my truth... Your welcome, all 3 of you (and you know who you are, right? ... JUST KIDDIN!)
"Superman 9" | |
|
| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 1:45:15 PM | Cat- you are right. I think it got ridiculous on both our parts. But he had done this before and I felt I was seeing a pattern. I guess I was more invested in things than he was and hoped we could work our way through it. He later told me he saw it as a misunderstanding and didn't feel the need to apologize. I didn't see it as a misunderstanding and felt that his actions were indeed hurtful.
But I also believe we clearly are not a match. I need a man who is more sensitive to me. He is a witholder and withdrawer in conflict- I lean into it. We are not well suited. I talk through conflict- he ignores it, changes the subject, avoids. Drives me nuts. so clearly we are not meant for each other.
My mistake is I often don't know when to call it quits. Hope springs eternal! That is my downfall | |
|
| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 2:06:44 PM | Guys do much better with one sentence as to what it is that is bothering you and then drop it. You may not get an apology ( that is degrading to them, especially if they have a huge ego, as most guys do), but........if they care, they may not do it the next time. If they work at changing, you know they care. If they don`t, they aren`t going to change and then it is up to you.
I had this happen recently with someone I cared very much about. He was incessantly late and undependable about calling, showing up on time etc., 2 to 4 hours late for a date, on his schedule, when he wanted to . He knew this upset me, and all I asked is that he give me a call if he was running late. I was extremely tolerant. He tried a bit, but just thought I was being unreasonable by not being flexible to him showing up "whenever"or not at all , and not calling. He thought this was fine. I didn`t. He did it several times. I didn`t argue. What would be the point? He wasn`t about to change, and told me that. So we split up. I mean, we both thought the other was being unreasonable, not on the same page at all, and neither was going to budge. I never got an apology. If anything, he was annoyed that I wouldn`t work around his time frame, and expected me to wait around for him because of "who he was." Whatever. I thought it felt like a powerplay and wanted no part of it. So we both think the other was in the wrong and no one is apologizing. I sure the heck am not. I don`t need to date "God."
But do you see what I mean about different people`s perceptions? This was a very attractive man, in the public eye alot, used to being spoiled, and women twisting themselves into pretzels for him, and I didn`t. He didn`t understand that. To him I was the one in the wrong, because I wasn`t bending over backward to be with him, although I really liked him, I can`t be in that uneven and condescending type of relationship. | |
|
| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 2:15:50 PM |
Guys do much better with one sentence as to what it is that is bothering you and then drop it. In my opinion, that really is a truth.
We females, (in general), tend to have difficulty stopping at the one sentence!
Then the males, (in general), no longer are focused in on what we're saying.
They, (in general), are just hearing squeek squeek squeek noises. 
And thinking "oh crap, she wants me to respond NOW".
Usually, they (in general), did hear that first sentence.
Usually, they (in general), will take it in and digest it and then later decide what they can do about it to help you either feel better about what is bothering you, work on it with you, or several other options.
But they (in general), don't do well with demands that they respond immediately to something that is emotionally bothering you.
The best thing to do is say "this ________ (fill in blank with one sentence) is bothering me .. can you think about it and get back to me about it tonight?". Then drop it. | |
|
| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 2:16:03 PM | Hopefully during the next exercise in conflict resolution, you wont make your next boyfriend walk home. Your "Drives me nuts" feelings can be reframed in a positive perception with some NLP (Neuro Linquistic Programming)
No two people are a "match", it takes patience, interpersonal communication skills, and a willingness to compromise on issues when two people don't see eye to eye.
I'm not a betting man, but I'm sure you will repeat this style of communication with the next man with dismal results. What people think, say, do and feel is a matter of personal choice, thankfully there are some wonderful teachings like NLP on how to better communicate and resolve differences without arguing.
Good luck. | |
|
| |
| |
| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 2:41:06 PM | Wildflower and Breath. You're both right. Good ideas and suggestions. It's what I should have done. I think I don't understand men well at all. Probably didn't spend enough time around them to really get it. And I need to stop caring about whether somebody thinks I'm a good person or not. Who cares if he thinks I'm wrong. You're right Wildflower. Better to just walk away and let him think what he wants. In the scheme of things, why should it really matter. I hate being misunderstood- but maybe sometimes it can't be helped.
I know NLP. Great theory- very difficult to live it when you are in an emotional state. Nobody is thinking rationally at that point.
I like the idea of an Alpha female. What's wrong with that? We'd all ooh and aahhh over and alpha male. Yup. Sounds ok to me. Life presents us with challenges. Mine certainly required me to be alpha. I wouldn't have survived and thrived otherwise. So I don't mind the label. | |
|
| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 4:17:06 PM | | In my opinion I just think you have found the wrong sort of men. This is only my opinion mind you but most men are jackasses to be frank. I think you need to try and find men more emotional and more tuned into others feelings. When my childrens mother and I divorced I found myself saying I am sorry for things that wasnt my fault. Maybe if that has happened to others now they are so arogant they think they can do no wrong now. Hope it helps... | |
|
| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 5:16:36 PM | You stated, "very difficult to live it when you are in an emotional state"
NLP is a Theory?
You're kidding right? I have a difficult time believing you know NLP when one of the very aspects of NLP teaches you to overcome limitation feelings when you are in an emotional state.
NLP is taught to nurses while in school to deal with the ever challenging aspects of dealing with death & dying of their patients.
Thousands of patients who were prior drug addicts, alcoholics, people with compulsive disorders have been rescued from a miserable life using NLP.
If military special forces can adapt and learn NLP to overcome a myriad of life threatening situations, anyone can. It's just a matter of wanting to. It's also now being taught to some prior military with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder with remarkable results.
I have no idea why you think NLP is a Theory. I learned NLP 20 years ago, it was not a theory then, neither is it now. There are many medical practitioners who use this form of therapy to help there patients.
I dare you to look up anything on Google about NLP, you'll see nothing but high praise for it's results. Just type in Dr Grinder or NLP. Dr. John Grinder is one of it's co-creators | |
|
| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/12/2009 6:46:23 PM | | NLP IS a theory. Perhaps there are practitioners but first it is a theory= then it becomes a practice. Who said it wasn't a good theory. But it is a theory nonetheless. | |
|
| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/13/2009 4:13:55 AM | ^^^yeah but it's a theory that works a whole hell of a lot better than the theory that presupposes specific outcomes based on one's current emotional state. just sayin'.
....................................................................................................................
Who cares if he thinks I'm wrong.
but what if you ARE wrong? what a shocker.
you've had a whole lot to say here about empathy but i don't know that you can walk the talk. empathy isn't a one way street. you've been very insistent about your demands for men to "acknowledge your feelings", come hell or high water. that's not acknowledgement but mere "validation" and "appeasement"... what if somebody said to you "ok i fully acknowledge that your feelings are fvcked". i'll be that would not make you a happy camper, lol. i'll bet that person would be facing a long walk home.
a need for validation and appeasement doesn't make for an emotional environment in which things like "open & honest communication" can happen. what's up with that and why do you keep setting things up that way? "if i don't get some appeasement (a.k.a. "acknowledgment"), you'll be taking a hike." oy vey! now i think you have a big problem with being "wrong", too.
just a hunch. | |
|
| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/13/2009 6:01:58 AM | I think it's very important not to worry about what every man thinks of you- especially if they are dumping their issues on you. You go with your intuition and get out of there. I am an incredibly empathetic person- to the point that I listen, and listen and listen. I empathize to the point where my needs are pushed aside. And I hang far too long while I try to understand the other. That is just plain dumb. Sometimes, you need to know when to strategically exit. And that is what Wildflower was saying. And I agree with her.
You need to read things in context- not pull out a phrase and decide that represents the whole picture. | |
|
| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/13/2009 6:40:33 AM | Respect yourself and others...by saying ...I'm OK and you are OK...
I accept my imperfection...and I know you are not perfect either...
Do you know...that saying I'm OK and you are not OK...shows that you don't have respect for others?
You just want to show...who is a better person...
Just very poor action...and low self confidence... | |
|
| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/13/2009 6:46:20 AM | | Self-confidence is not the issue at all. What I'm saying is that I am not going to spend time going around in circles with these men. I will just walk away and move on. A healthy decision as many posters have pointed out. Doesn't show who is a better person. It's called self-preservation and not needing to have approval from everyone. That is high self-confidence. | |
|
| |
| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/13/2009 6:55:37 AM | "RING......RING....
"Hello."
"Hi Sweetie. My plane gets in tomorrow at 3. Can you pick me up?"
"Sure. What terminal?"
......
"RING...RING....RING....RING...RIN"
"uh..Hullo..."
"WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU! I TOLD YOU MY PLANE GOT IN AT 3. I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR MORE THAN AN HOUR!"
"Aw geez. I thought you meant 3pm. I'm on my way. See you in an hour."
The prudent man would apologize, though the error was her's. | |
|
| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/13/2009 9:31:13 AM | OP and later posters:
Two very salient points have been made in the various posts. First, there seems to be two categories where the issue of an apology is important. The first is the issue of emotions, and getting a person upset about what was done or said. Clearly, an apology is warranted if the discussion generates such passion, an apology for getting a person upset, whatever the issue. Second, another class of events would fall into the category of what the issue was about in the first place, for example, the issue could have been about being late for a date. This is where much of the discussion has centered, and it IS very thorny. Say, for example, that a person was late for a date because he/she had car problems, a very defensible position. HOWEVER, the person has tended to be late for several dates, and this latest episode has reached the point of leading to hurt feelings. An apology should be forthcoming for the lateness pattern. If that leads to some soothing of feathers, then the issue of what happened in the latest instance could be discussed more amicably. Perhaps then some solution (such as calling the minute the person realizes he/she will be late) can be reached to address the overall, more general pattern of behavior. If people feel strongly toward each other, some solution CAN be reached, in many instances. We tend to think, especially men, that once an episode of being hurt is over, it will be forgotten. From my experience, this is not the case, even if the couple kissed and made up. I remember from the dark days of my divorce that some people tend not to ever forget these assumed forgotten instances, and they come back at you as proof of why you were so mean to your partner. Especially if one of the partners is a non-communicator, some issues you might not have even heard about! Small things can add up to symbolize bigger issues -- your always being late, for example, comes to stand for "he/she doesn't care about me enough to value my time or care about me to be there when he/she should." Perhaps the best that one can do is to try to communicate effectively enough to discover one another's "hot buttons" and work hard to try to overcome the hurt that results from that. Communication is a two way street, however, and some folks, leaning toward passive agressiveness, would rather "keep score" of relationship infractions rather than working to overcome them.
As for forcing a person to walk ten minutes back to his house, much worse things have happened. In the proper light, a ten minute reflective stroll, and thinking about what led up to it, might have been a positive thing, especially if the couple was really in love with one another. A ten minute stroll, with the man feeling like she had no right to do what she did, and the woman feeling vindicated might be better closed with the end of the relationship.
If I sound like a know-it-all, I'm not trying to sound that way. I tend to be in the 'older' category' of POF members, and have learned quite a bit from making mistakes. We all make them, to learn from them is harder to achieve. | |
|
| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/13/2009 10:05:10 AM | | thanks for the clarification in post #91. so are you saying that you're basically a doormat? what for? i mean, what is the psychological payoff to you for being a doormat? i agree that strategic exits can be valuable. perhaps they should be made sooner ;) | |
|
| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/13/2009 10:18:28 AM | | Well in the interest of proving the one sentence theory, let me say to desert wildflower, that seeing that your profile is an obvious fake and that you feel men are dogs, why don't you do us all a favor and carry your skanky a$$ off this site and take the wannabe alpha dog op with you. No offense, just saying is all. I'll drop it now. | |
|
| |
| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/13/2009 11:26:39 AM | | I love the way you categorize a response to an open insult to men and dogs everywhere as aggression. Do I really care? It is the duty of caring and empathetic people to point out insensitivity where ever it rears it's ugly head. Don't you agree? Believe me,I will not spend an hour discussing it with you, nor will I require you to walk away. My previous statement was a request, not an order. If you agree with the bi%*&.... oops I offended female dogs. I'm so sorry. How could I be so insensitive? | |
|
| |
| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/13/2009 2:45:24 PM |
...You need to read things in context...
YOU didn't provide context!
and we only have your side.
there are more than a few people who think your side looks pretty bad. | |
|
| |
Home
login 
