| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/14/2009 9:43:53 PM | Blueeyessmiling
Blueeyessmiling --- That's from a Willy Nelson song from the Hill Country, my homestead as well. I think that you have succinctly stated the sum total of this thread. Communication is key, but it's not a simple matter. The intent to communicate comes from the heart. No heart, no compelling need to communicate. It makes it easier for some folks, that way, it's easier to live with oneself, it's always somebody else's fault, but it's a faulty realization. Having said that, I have full faith that people people can change, I really do. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/14/2009 10:24:17 PM |
OP - I have noticed that many men in this age group have a very hard time apologizing. One man I recently broke up with told me that he always apologized in his marriage and therefore has a hard time with it now. I don't find him unusual. I have had more round and round and round discussions with men who I feel have upset me who will minimize or deny my feelings.
On the other hand, sometimes the men go overboard and say that are sorry to have met you. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/15/2009 9:59:14 AM | >>>A smack or two from a man or a physical threat made verbally is really quite common, and really is your safety and well being worth It? I mean, so what if they do something and you can`t get an apology out of them? I`d rather just dump them rather than get confrontational or harpy and risk my well being. I guess I just don`t trust what people will do when they are heated. .......
WOW! Wildflower - I'm so sorry if you feel that in any given heated discussion us women should consider it common that a man would give a smack or two.....! That's kind of taking a great leap against the men here.... I live in Scotland where domestic violence on the heels of alcohol abuse is very common (and have personally experienced it as a child), but I would consider it a vast overreaction to warn women to shut up a situation before it got heated before you get a smack..... One can only surmise the reasons why you have come to make this statement and feel very, very sorry for it, however, I totally disagree - a smack or two from a man or a physical threat is not that common and to imply that women in general should be in fear of it is just plain wrong and also very insulting against men.... sure, some men have violence issues, but most men are gentle and in control of their tempers. You have tremendous fear, I'm assuming justifiably, and I do hope that somehow one day someone you meet can calm that for you. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/15/2009 10:11:32 AM | >>>>>OP - I have noticed that many men in this age group have a very hard time apologizing. One man I recently broke up with told me that he always apologized in his marriage and therefore has a hard time with it now. I don't find him unusual. I have had more round and round and round discussions with men who I feel have upset me who will minimize or deny my feelings.>>>On the other hand, sometimes the men go overboard and say that are sorry to have met you.
Heheheh Try Again, so sorry to be (for once) in agreement with you... may even break the habit of a lifetime ;-)....I have a feeling this lady requires everyone to apologise to her for every imagined slight or hurt she chooses to feel (and I use the word 'choose' advisedly), and obviously "hell mend them" if they don't...... I hope her boyfriend gets something from these posts - and has a quiet 10 minutes thinking them over before legging it to the next state.... LOL | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/15/2009 11:17:12 AM |
The intent to communicate comes from the heart. No heart, no compelling need to communicate. It makes it easier for some folks, that way, it's easier to live with oneself, it's always somebody else's fault, but it's a faulty realization. Having said that, I have full faith that people people can change, I really do
I stand corrected you are right. And I apologize to both You and the OP.
I have no right to stand in judgment of anyone else.
And yes I also try to believe the best of people and I do believe that people can change. Thanks...........Smiles | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/15/2009 11:24:13 AM | Minx - Msg 137
Heheheh Try Again, so sorry to be (for once) in agreement with you... may even break the habit of a lifetime ;-)....I have a feeling this lady requires everyone to apologise to her for every imagined slight or hurt she chooses to feel (and I use the word 'choose' advisedly), and obviously "hell mend them" if they don't...... I hope her boyfriend gets something from these posts - and has a quiet 10 minutes thinking them over before legging it to the next state.... LOL
Nice to see you back. Were you on Singles Cruise? | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/15/2009 11:27:55 AM | >>>>>Nice to see you back. Were you on Singles Cruise?
Oh my definition of the gates of hell, a floating prison with food peopled with budding starlets with 100watt smiley teeth and spangles, singing songs from the musicals.... and.... singles!!! Sorry I'm going to have to go and lie down in a dark room. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/15/2009 11:31:23 AM | MissingMinx - Msg 140
Oh my definition of the gates of hell, a floating prison with food peopled with budding starlets with 100watt smiley teeth and spangles, singing songs from the musicals.... and.... singles!!! Sorry I'm going to have to go and lie down in a dark room
With apologies to the OP, this is slightly OT, but somehow I don't think, the cruise lines would want to use your endorsements. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/15/2009 12:34:19 PM | sounds like you mix in an explanation with what sounds like an "inventory" of the person whose actions you took offense at. when i have situations like this, i try very hard beforehand to stick to a brief explanation of my feelings when "whatever" happened or did not happen (ie should have happened).
i am not looking for an apology. i'm looking for an explanation or solution. if the person returns with a blank stare or ignores me, i ask "did you hear and understand what i said?" if all i get is a yes, then i figure s/he or he is missing something between the ears and take them home, drop them off and limit my time with him/her.
95 percent of the time, i will be offered a different perspective or we will build upon the conversation w/o attacking one another or demanding anything, short of a solution. sometimes we agree to disagree. other times, there is no solution. in fact, when someone incessantly tells me they are sorry for something, i find it irritating. because often that person will just up and do it again. instead, when a situation is reconstructed and people gain better insight into the others "paradigm" if they are good friends or SO's, the discussion just grows their relationship.
i find with pof posting, that if i feel someone is not getting me or putting me down and it ALSO affects my feelings, if the person is in my opinion irreverent, obnoxious, stupid, or whatever--i either ignore them and let them use enough rope to hang themselves, or i may have a humorous reaction. if i think they are reasonable people or new to my knowing them, i let it go and come back the next day and read the comments again. often, they have a point or i was reading something into the post that was not there. fortunately here, you cannot insist that someone talk to you in a car, demanding his or her apology. nor can you not drive them home. to me that is a need to display "control" when one is feeling out of control. maybe not valued, but nonetheless not an excuse nor even of help to oneself.
i have not found men to be any less apologetic than women. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/15/2009 12:55:13 PM | Dear Friends,
I always apologise immediately when I am wrong - in fact, the last time, 17 August, 1978, it was a thursday, I believe, I immediately acknowledged that I may not have been absolutely correct on every point.
-CdC | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/15/2009 4:00:55 PM | I've come to this conclusion.....for some....when they've felt offended...and an apology has been offered by the alleged offender...the offended continues to rant about the alleged offense.....exacerbating the situation...into...a complete arguement.....when it would hav ebeen easier to just have agree'd to disagree...
Is that confusing?????"I'm sorry!" | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/15/2009 5:09:31 PM | I know exactly what you are talking about. It's a form of verbal abuse you are describing. You can read the book The Verbally Abusive Relationship available on Amazon for a description of this and other not so obvious forms of verbal abuse.
I just talked to a man who went on and on describing for me how to clean the dust out of my computer while I told him three times that I know how to do it and do it all the time.
The ones who do it always argue about it and deny it. They are verbal abusers and will never admit what they are doing. They don't want you to be on to their game.
All you can do is get away from them. Arguing doesn't do any good. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/15/2009 10:07:37 PM |
I stand corrected you are right. And I apologize to both You and the OP.
I have no right to stand in judgment of anyone else.
And yes I also try to believe the best of people and I do believe that people can change. Thanks...........Smiles
No apologies necessary from this end. OP should learn from you. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/15/2009 11:30:52 PM | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.................................................
Well.. after having read most of the posts.. I've come to the conclusion that there are many.. men and women.. that are more than willing to make apologies. Now.. whether that holds true to apologizing for something of a more serious nature.. who knows? But.. those of this forum.. are far from being ignoramuses. IMO | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/16/2009 3:49:51 AM | I also have personal experience with this.
I was married to someone who basically said what he wanted without reguard to anyones feelings even his child. When I or anyone else tried to broach the subject of the events in a non-threatening manner, it was assumed that I was trying to dredge up the pas t( even if only minutes had passed) or " trying to start an argument".
I believe when there is hurt involved that it is important to communicate that to your partner and bring closure to it. Otherwise, resentment builds to the point it affects all areas of the relationship.
I have heard it said that when an argument happens, it is almost never really about the current issue, but something much deeper.
I also believe it is okay to " discuss " things that involve how a person affected you by what they have said or how they have acted. If this is not the case, then they have no idea and it will eventually come out in the hurt person at another time, maybe over something very minor. The fact is, most people avoid conflict at any cost, thereby, never really dealing with the events.
This is what brings about the eventual end of most marriages.
It comes about from watching our parents and how they dealt with their issues or by life experiences . ( what has worked and what has not ).
We live in a " all about me " society.
I further believe that because the end result in some peoples marriages was divorce, they are no longer willing to go the " extra mile" to make the other person feel secure or okay because all their efforts in the past have failed them. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/16/2009 10:26:17 AM | I LOVE Flowers!
That aside, I think it is best to choose your arguments. Not everything is worth having a heated discussion over. I think that part of what makes a good relationship is knowing when to roll with it. That goes for both sexes.
M
i | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/16/2009 2:20:40 PM |
The intent to communicate comes from the heart. No heart, no compelling need to communicate.
Krebby has it, in my view. The actual desire to communicate something meaningful to another simply removes the importance of who is right or wrong in a situation. With plain old fashioned 'goodwill' as a basis of communication, much can be said and offered toward the settling of differences in ways of being.
Without the actual intent or desire to communicate with another, "from the heart", as Krebby has it, I think what takes place is the opposite of communication -- withholding and concealment of information -- possibly even from one's self.
I know I rarely say "I'm sorry".
I often, however, find myself in the position of saying, "I was thoughtless." or "I didn't take your feelings into consideration. That must have hurt. I really wish I hadn't done that." "What can I do to make it better?" "I was careless and I think I hurt you."
I find being very specific helpful, both about what I have done and about how I think it has affected others.
It's quick. It's easy. It's honest. And I have fairly decent relationships with the folks around me. And I find I'm treated with the same courtesy.
'Course I'm lucky that I hang out with people of goodwill...
But...it's also a choice I've made in my life.
Come to think of it... hasn't always been that way... | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/23/2009 8:22:19 AM | Judging from the posters in this thread – it was moved from the over 45 section. Darn huh?
Northern Dreamer:
My doctorate is in education but I have my own business working with individuals and companies in building trusting relationships. I did my doctorate research in Trust.
So basically, what your suggesting is that having voiced your feelings – men in the over 45 category should acknowledge and apologize.
I disagree:
What causes someone to apologize?
What conditions need to be present for someone to extend beyond self and not feel defensive?
What does the offender need to see before he can move outside himself a yet still feel safe as a man regardless of age?
You obviously studied trust and in saying this – you will know that the mans masculinity (ego) may have been threatened as a result of his not stepping up to say he was sorry.
The man regardless of his definition did not feel what he was doing was in any way the issue and went to the extent of a 10 minute walk.
You on the other hand felt frustrated - the man did not hear your feeling words and as a result, you felt quite insignificant.
What if you explored the insignificance – that your feelings are of worth - if in fact this disagreement was really about your feelings and not being acknowledged.
I would say this was more about your fears and how his view of you is now a reality.
What reality?
Where did the fear of not being acknowledged put you?
What did it do to the person you think you are?
How does this fear dictate changes you will now perceive of him because he didn’t acknowledge?
How does this fear frame all other events that you see yourself in with him in the future?
It really just is not about being acknowledged.
It really is about speaking to the fears and how you are now viewing your relationship to him and the value of integrity. Is it possible to express it in words?
To suggest a man requires to acknowledge your feelings, you need to allow him to begin to feel compassionate to your needs….
My suggestion? Start to trust yourself and your worth and your value – it does not hurt to be vulnerable –it’s freeing. Talk to how the fear changes you as a person in relationship to him. Not a condition – but the reality of your fears and where they come from. It is possible you’ve experienced something like the event you encountered and it replays itself out with him…. Acknowledge it in yourself first before you can request a change elsewhere.
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/23/2009 12:13:23 PM | After 7 pages on this topic, i do have to share my first one line response that probably answers this the most truthfully.
Why is it tought for men to say they are sorry?
BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/23/2009 1:00:47 PM | It's not just the older men.... I find it with men my age and younger as well. I think society has gotten to the point where denial, pretense, and blaming the other person is practically acceptable.
There was a point after a major injury where I was bed ridden and gained about 30 pounds. As soon as I got well enough to do so, I started dieting and exercising. Since it was a Canadian winter, I bought tapes so that I could exercise at home, and bought diet snacks. My boyfriend at the time loved to call me names like "my little chunky monkey", etc. He made fun of me every single time he saw me push away my plate when full... or eating a diet snack bar. He also sat with a beer and watched me exercise while making comments.
One day, I was doing some cardio and got out of sync with the host and tripped. He looked at me, laughed and said "You just looked like a f*ing spastic retard!". I gathered up my videos and all the diet aids I had bought, dropped them in his lap and said "Don't ever say that I didn't try. And if you ever bring up the fact that I need to lose weight again, I will shove my foot so far up your ass that you'll taste toe jam".
Well, he told me that I was overreacting.. and he was just trying to "help" me lose weight by pointing it out, etc. I asked if he was gong to apologize and he said no.. there was no need and I was just being oversensitive to his jokes. I needed to develop a "thicker skin" and learn how to take some "good-natured ribbing". I told him not to bother, packed up my crap and left.
To him, what he did was not wrong... the breakup was my fault for being so needy, clingy, oversensitive and making "demands" by asking for an apology.
He's making wife number 4 miserable as we speak. Rumour is he'll be looking for number 5 very soon. Learning to apologize would have been a LOT cheaper. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/23/2009 1:11:53 PM | Why is it tought for men to say they are sorry? BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT.
It's not just the older men.... I find it with men my age and younger as well.
notatowniegirl & desert wildflower: Geez, you two? Do you think its really fair to throw every man in the world under the bus in this manner? Saying "I'm sorry" and "Please" and "Thank You" are basic virtues ALL adults should know. That includes women and men. Lots of women have problems saying "I'm sorry" as well. | |
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