| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/16/2009 10:26:17 AM | I LOVE Flowers!
That aside, I think it is best to choose your arguments. Not everything is worth having a heated discussion over. I think that part of what makes a good relationship is knowing when to roll with it. That goes for both sexes.
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/16/2009 2:20:40 PM |
The intent to communicate comes from the heart. No heart, no compelling need to communicate.
Krebby has it, in my view. The actual desire to communicate something meaningful to another simply removes the importance of who is right or wrong in a situation. With plain old fashioned 'goodwill' as a basis of communication, much can be said and offered toward the settling of differences in ways of being.
Without the actual intent or desire to communicate with another, "from the heart", as Krebby has it, I think what takes place is the opposite of communication -- withholding and concealment of information -- possibly even from one's self.
I know I rarely say "I'm sorry".
I often, however, find myself in the position of saying, "I was thoughtless." or "I didn't take your feelings into consideration. That must have hurt. I really wish I hadn't done that." "What can I do to make it better?" "I was careless and I think I hurt you."
I find being very specific helpful, both about what I have done and about how I think it has affected others.
It's quick. It's easy. It's honest. And I have fairly decent relationships with the folks around me. And I find I'm treated with the same courtesy.
'Course I'm lucky that I hang out with people of goodwill...
But...it's also a choice I've made in my life.
Come to think of it... hasn't always been that way... | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/23/2009 8:22:19 AM | Judging from the posters in this thread – it was moved from the over 45 section. Darn huh?
Northern Dreamer:
My doctorate is in education but I have my own business working with individuals and companies in building trusting relationships. I did my doctorate research in Trust.
So basically, what your suggesting is that having voiced your feelings – men in the over 45 category should acknowledge and apologize.
I disagree:
What causes someone to apologize?
What conditions need to be present for someone to extend beyond self and not feel defensive?
What does the offender need to see before he can move outside himself a yet still feel safe as a man regardless of age?
You obviously studied trust and in saying this – you will know that the mans masculinity (ego) may have been threatened as a result of his not stepping up to say he was sorry.
The man regardless of his definition did not feel what he was doing was in any way the issue and went to the extent of a 10 minute walk.
You on the other hand felt frustrated - the man did not hear your feeling words and as a result, you felt quite insignificant.
What if you explored the insignificance – that your feelings are of worth - if in fact this disagreement was really about your feelings and not being acknowledged.
I would say this was more about your fears and how his view of you is now a reality.
What reality?
Where did the fear of not being acknowledged put you?
What did it do to the person you think you are?
How does this fear dictate changes you will now perceive of him because he didn’t acknowledge?
How does this fear frame all other events that you see yourself in with him in the future?
It really just is not about being acknowledged.
It really is about speaking to the fears and how you are now viewing your relationship to him and the value of integrity. Is it possible to express it in words?
To suggest a man requires to acknowledge your feelings, you need to allow him to begin to feel compassionate to your needs….
My suggestion? Start to trust yourself and your worth and your value – it does not hurt to be vulnerable –it’s freeing. Talk to how the fear changes you as a person in relationship to him. Not a condition – but the reality of your fears and where they come from. It is possible you’ve experienced something like the event you encountered and it replays itself out with him…. Acknowledge it in yourself first before you can request a change elsewhere.
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/23/2009 12:13:23 PM | After 7 pages on this topic, i do have to share my first one line response that probably answers this the most truthfully.
Why is it tought for men to say they are sorry?
BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/23/2009 1:00:47 PM | It's not just the older men.... I find it with men my age and younger as well. I think society has gotten to the point where denial, pretense, and blaming the other person is practically acceptable.
There was a point after a major injury where I was bed ridden and gained about 30 pounds. As soon as I got well enough to do so, I started dieting and exercising. Since it was a Canadian winter, I bought tapes so that I could exercise at home, and bought diet snacks. My boyfriend at the time loved to call me names like "my little chunky monkey", etc. He made fun of me every single time he saw me push away my plate when full... or eating a diet snack bar. He also sat with a beer and watched me exercise while making comments.
One day, I was doing some cardio and got out of sync with the host and tripped. He looked at me, laughed and said "You just looked like a f*ing spastic retard!". I gathered up my videos and all the diet aids I had bought, dropped them in his lap and said "Don't ever say that I didn't try. And if you ever bring up the fact that I need to lose weight again, I will shove my foot so far up your ass that you'll taste toe jam".
Well, he told me that I was overreacting.. and he was just trying to "help" me lose weight by pointing it out, etc. I asked if he was gong to apologize and he said no.. there was no need and I was just being oversensitive to his jokes. I needed to develop a "thicker skin" and learn how to take some "good-natured ribbing". I told him not to bother, packed up my crap and left.
To him, what he did was not wrong... the breakup was my fault for being so needy, clingy, oversensitive and making "demands" by asking for an apology.
He's making wife number 4 miserable as we speak. Rumour is he'll be looking for number 5 very soon. Learning to apologize would have been a LOT cheaper. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/23/2009 1:11:53 PM | Why is it tought for men to say they are sorry? BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT.
It's not just the older men.... I find it with men my age and younger as well.
notatowniegirl & desert wildflower: Geez, you two? Do you think its really fair to throw every man in the world under the bus in this manner? Saying "I'm sorry" and "Please" and "Thank You" are basic virtues ALL adults should know. That includes women and men. Lots of women have problems saying "I'm sorry" as well. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/23/2009 1:14:35 PM | ^^^
Where in my post did I write the word all before men? The topic, if you'll notice, is about men not being able to say they're sorry. I responded to that. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/23/2009 1:19:26 PM | Oh, give me a break! There`s a lot more hard a$$ insensitive guys that say whatever they feel like and could care less, than loving "good guys". It`s the nature of the beast, testosterone, and we women are supposed to develop a tough hide and deal with it for the most part. Often they are real sweeties until they feel secure enough to start that crap. The first instance of this happening, my radar goes up. That is strike one.
Everyone has a bad day, but three strikes and I am gone. I`d rather be alone than put up with that crap. Been through a few guys. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/23/2009 2:40:12 PM | So, you were foolish enough to be somewhere inbetween ex-wife #3 and #4 and it's ok to paint the implied "all" men with the same brush
He's making wife number 4 miserable as we speak. Rumour is he'll be looking for number 5 very soon. Learning to apologize would have been a LOT cheaper. Somehow....for him ...it may have been a good decision..
Oh, give me a break! There`s a lot more hard a$$ insensitive guys that say whatever they feel like and could care less, than loving "good guys". It`s the nature of the beast, testosterone, and we women are supposed to develop a tough hide and deal with it for the most part. Often they are real sweeties until they feel secure enough to start that crap. The first instance of this happening, my radar goes up. That is strike one.
Everyone has a bad day, but three strikes and I am gone. I`d rather be alone than put up with that crap. Been through a few guys.
Talk about saying whatever you feel like...all those guys are probably still sorry.
edit.
VVV...and you still keep track and burn that old candle of hate after all these years...VVV...and I did say the "implied" all...we sensitive types do care... | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/23/2009 2:46:45 PM |
So, you were foolish enough to be somewhere inbetween ex-wife #3 and #4 and it's ok to paint the implied "all" men with the same brush
Do you always make such stupid assumptions? FYI, I was with him before he was ever married. His wives keep leaving him.
And again... I didn't say it was ALL men. I shouldn't have to post a disclaimer for the oversensitive types. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/23/2009 2:55:25 PM | | I`m sorry----------that I didn`t include a disclaimer to ALL of the men on the forums who are obviously the good guys, who would never do or say a thing that might upset a woman. I didn`t mean you guys, it`s all the other guys not on the forums, ya know, the jerks that we all want. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/23/2009 3:23:54 PM |
VVV...and you still keep track and burn that old candle of hate after all these years...VVV...and I did say the "implied" all...we sensitive types do care...
Another stupid assumption. I don't hate him, although I do think he's pathetic. I also don't keep track of him. I just live in a small place and news gets around.
But hey, you just keep making shit up if it makes you feel better. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/24/2009 7:00:12 AM | Jeepers girls...I will collectively apologize for all the men who've hit, yelled, slapped, sexually abused you for all these years...It must have been horrible to experience and I'm glad that you 2 are survivors...
But, as to myself and a few of the posters that have been painted with the "all men" brush...both of ya'll have a history of the "all men" painting...so 'cuse us if we get confused with a cross post memory. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/24/2009 8:18:37 AM |
Jeepers girls...I will collectively apologize for all the men who've hit, yelled, slapped, sexually abused you for all these years...It must have been horrible to experience and I'm glad that you 2 are survivors...
But, as to myself and a few of the posters that have been painted with the "all men" brush...both of ya'll have a history of the "all men" painting...so 'cuse us if we get confused with a cross post memory.
Translation: Someone called me out for making something up about them that wasn't true, so instead of "apologizing", acknowledging that I was wrong or even using the ever encompassing "My bad!" I will continue to make baseless assumptions about them. I will also keep ignoring the fact that I was wrong to make those assumptions, and will try to divert attention to their behavior instead to save face.
Ironically, this is the type of behavior described in the OP. And FWIW, my being a survivor of abuse was also just one of your stupid assumptions. The last man who raised his hand to me got knocked out. I'd also challenge you to find one post where I "all men painted" in my history. Simply stating something doesn't make it true. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/24/2009 8:28:08 PM | Ok...doesn't apply to you...just DW...cause I have read her posts...and am sorry for her experiences...
So, ntg...you've been on POF for some time...but, I'm just seeing your postings appear...a repeat...a resurgence of an old profile...someones dup profile???my guess is you just like flaming posters...or just making inflamatory postings...hey...np...it tends to catch up...so...keep it coming..
Someone called me out for making something up about them that wasn't true, so instead of "apologizing", acknowledging that I was wrong or even using the ever encompassing "My bad!" I will continue to make baseless assumptions about them. I will also keep ignoring the fact that I was wrong to make those assumptions, and will try to divert attention to their behavior instead to save face.
ntg...ok you're not a survivor...just a very aggressive woman...I usually see this with men...but, well..."some" women behave this way , too...
I'll refrain from trying to make sense of your postings...it's apparent that your only attempt is to be inflamatory... | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/25/2009 6:03:37 AM |
I'll refrain from trying to make sense of your postings...it's apparent that your only attempt is to be inflamatory...
So making up the "facts" that:
- I was with someone between their 4th and 5th wife when I said no such thing
- I am "burning a candle of hate after all these years" when I said no such thing
- Continuing to insist that I somehow mean ALL men when I'm talking about the one's who can't apologize after it's been pointed out (twice even and once before you even posted) that I'm not
- Making a crack about how long I've been here (this profile was dormant for years by the way) which has absolutely NOTHING to do with anything
- Claiming that I'm aggressive (just can't resist getting some sort of dig in can you?) and that I'm one of these vague "some women" that I'm suppose to interpret.
So if the above is not "inflamatory" (sic) then what do you call it? Baking cookies?
Why is it that you're unable to stop making things up about people so you can pretend you're actually making some sort of "points" against them? Why are you unable to stop making personal attacks against me with absolutely no proof? Is it because you can't bring yourself to admit you've a mistake? Living with you must be hell on earth.
THIS is what the OP is talking about. You tried to dismiss what I was saying by making personal digs, and when called out for it you went on the attack instead of just saying "oh, I was wrong". And when called out for THAT, you just keep making personal attacks implying that I'M somehow at fault for it.... that I'm somehow dysfunctional for being logical enough to realize your game and say "whoa, back the f*ck up here...."
I mean, I could just play your game and say "Well, you're just bitter because you're a bipolar, 3 eyed midget with foot fungus and your wife is the local bearded lady so stop hating all women!" But I'm smarter than that. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/25/2009 11:19:46 AM | I’ll be 63 next week and until 3 ½ years ago, spent all my adult life married to one woman.
I know a thing or two about this based on 4 decades in a successful relationship. I know when it’s appropriate to say I’m sorry, and I also have enough common sense not to concede an “I’m sorry” when it is being used on me in a manipulative manner and that’s what I read from the OP’s first post. She later posts that she is the “alpha” type and I think she was setting some boundaries by trying to force this guy to say “I’m sorry” when it may not have been due.
Fortunately, not all women are guilty of this, I know my wife wasn’t and we both knew when saying you’re sorry was considered to be both appropriate and necessary.
The part about ordering this guy out of her car and making him walk home would’ve counted as two if it were me, first and last. That would be an immediate, non-negotiable, deal-breaker. That would be one of those red flags I read about in the forums. Anything else would be a long-term sentence to more of the same. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/25/2009 11:30:03 AM | I don't get the male generalization , I feel that women are just as guilty at lacking remorse. Nobody wants to admit when they are wrong anymore. I guess it comes down to "just knowing"...
Besides , You make your children say sorry for their wrong doings , why belittle a man by forcing him to apologize like a child ? | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/25/2009 12:16:35 PM | Depends on the person really. If I truly offend somebody without meaning to, I might not necessarily verbally apologize but I'll do something to make it up to them to make them smile.
But some women just like to be whiny for the sake of being whiny. They get upset about everything. When they complain, they get nothing but the cold shoulder. | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/25/2009 7:20:25 PM | Drat....I'm sorry...I forgot what I was going to say...
oh yea! Well...OP...trying to understand you circumstances...I just have to sy...that hey...let it go...I was't there....I really don't know the particulars...but....ya know....at times...we all have difficulty sayin "I'M SORRY"....and at other times it's like....omg...turn of that I am sorry valve....go figure.....cause I can't | |
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| Why is it tough for men to say I'm sorry.
Posted: 7/25/2009 8:07:19 PM | First of all let me say, "You go sister!" for kicking him out of your car! Don't let them think they can walk all over your feelings time and time again. You simply asked to have your feelings acknowledged, you didn't ask for a million dollars, is that so hard ?
Sadly he's not the only one...I guess saying sorry is like showing an inner weakness or something. You did well though I think, way to go ! | |
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