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Show ALL Forums  > UK forums  > Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?      Mod Threads Home login  
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 Author Thread: Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
 Miniscule Brain

Joined: 7/9/2009
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Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/14/2009 3:58:26 PM
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Pandemic-flu/Pages/Symptoms.aspx

http://www.telford.nhs.uk/Newsroom/Latest-News/Swine-Flu-Your-Questions-Answered/

http://www.shropshire.nhs.uk/News/Latest-News/Swine-Flu-Online-Self-Assessment-Tool/

http://www.shropshire.nhs.uk/News/Swine-Flu-Information/

Hopefully if you look on your local PCT's website they will have equivalent information, but this should help if you are worried.
 restless_native

Joined: 12/17/2006
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Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/14/2009 4:09:18 PM
People need to just get a little perspective. It's not an outbreak of the black death that we're talking about. Just something that might put you in bed for a couple of days with a fever.

If anything needless pressure is being put on NHS resources by panicking halfwits demanding action because they think they have a bit of a sniffle.
 Alma G Mahler

Joined: 5/14/2009
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Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/14/2009 5:15:22 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1199760/SWINE-FLU-Your-vital-questions-answered.html




SWINE FLU: Your vital questions answered

WHAT ARE THE SYMPTOMS?

A temperature of 38c (100.4f) or higher, which comes on suddenly, combined with two or more of: Sudden cough, headaches, tiredness, chills, aching limbs and joints, muscular aches, diarrhoea, sore throat, runny nose, sneezing or a loss of appetite.

'There is very little bog standard seasonal flu around at the moment, so if you have the above symptoms it is most likely to be swine flu,' says Dr Maureen Baker of the Royal College of General Practitioners.


SHOULD YOU GO TO A&E, TO YOUR DOCTOR'S OR STAY AT HOME?

Official advice is stay at home and log on to the NHS Direct website, consult the Swine Flu Information Line (08001 513 513) or your GP for advice by phone.

If swine flu is confirmed as a phone diagnosis, then you will be given an authorisation voucher - this means someone who can act as your 'flu friend' can collect it from your GP's surgery and take it to a chemist to pick up Tamiflu (or the alternative anti-viral relenza, if you cannot take Tamiflu, for example because you are pregnant).

'Avoid going to your GP surgery.There may be people in the waiting room with underlying health issues for whom swine flu could be very dangerous,' says Dr Baker.

The incubation period between infection and symptoms is about four days. 'You will be infectious for around five days in all, from a day before symptoms begin, and while the symptoms are at their worst,' says John Oxford, professor of virology at St Barts and the Royal London Hospital.


CAN YOU TAKE VITAMINS/ ECHINACEA AND SO ON TO STOP YOURSELF GETTING SWINE FLU?

'The only way to reduce your risk of developing this illness is by practising good hygiene,' says Professor Oxford.

'The virus can live for around 24 hours on surfaces, so regular hand washing and daily cleaning of door handles and other surfaces with a standard cleaner is key.'

There is no evidence that taking vitamins or supplements will help.


DOES THE GOVERNMENT HAVE ENOUGH TAMIFLU?

At the moment yes, according to the Department of Health, which has enough to treat 50 per cent of the population.

It is going to increase that stockpile from 23million to 50million courses of the tablets but it's unclear when the further supply will arrive.
The Government will increase its Tamiflu stockpilie from 23million to 50million courses of the tablets

Supplies: The Government will increase its Tamiflu stockpilie from 23million to 50million courses of the tablets


SHOULD YOU TAKE TAMIFLU IF YOU DON'T HAVE SWINE FLU?

Tamiflu only halts the progression of swine flu (it does not kill the virus, but prevents it from replicating and so spreading the infection in the body). It can also act as a preventative.

'What it does is put a coating around the cells in your airways, throat and nose,' says Professor Oxford. 'This acts like a glass wall and prevents the virus from infecting the cells there.

'The effects of the Tamiflu will be pretty instant - you should be protected within 30 minutes of taking it.

'However, each pill provides only a day's protection. Hypothetically, you could take a pill each day for the duration of this latest outbreak, but the effects of doing this have not been tested in the laboratory. So if it lasted for months, no one knows what taking a pill every day would do to you.'

Furthermore, it is no longer Government policy to hand it out as a wide-scale preventative drug.

The early stage of the swine flu outbreak was deemed the containment phase, when it was hoped the spread of the disease could be minimised and anti-viral medication was being given as a preventative measure because there was a chance it could still prevent a wider outbreak.

So for instance, Tamiflu was being given to schoolchildren whose classmates had tested positive for swine flu.

Then after July 2, this changed when the outbreak was deemed a treatment phase - this means swine flu is so widespread it is no longer containable.

'As the virus is more widespread now there is now point giving Tamiflu as a preventative measure as so many people can now easily come into contact with someone infected with swine flu,' said the Health Protection Agency.


DOES TAMIFLU HAVE ANY SIDE EFFECTS?

It causes nausea in one in ten of us. It is also not suitable for pregnant women or those with kidney disease. Possible but rare side effects include skin reactions and symptoms of an allergic reaction.

'The key is not to take it on an empty stomach - we don't know why exactly, but having a dry biscuit or something else to eat just before you take it seems to prevent the nausea in most cases,' says Professor Oxford.
DOES TAMIFLU WORK ON ORDINARY FLU?

Yes and no. 'There are many, many different strains of flu,' says Dr Baker.

'Whereas the majority probably would respond to Tamiflu, others will not but those may respond to other types of anti-viral medication.'

CAN YOU BUY TAMIFLU ONLINE, AND IS IT SAFE TO DO SO?

Yes, but be careful. Around 4 per cent of spam emails offer Tamiflu and relenza, the other anti-viral drug being used to treat swine flu.

But there is no guarantee that they are genuine.

Those most at risk of complications include the over-65s, pregnant women and people with chronic conditions such as chronic heart or lung disease.

COULD SWINE FLU BECOME RESISTANT TO TAMIFLU?

Yes it can do. 'There is always a risk that a virus will become resistant to an anti-viral medication,' says Professor Oxford.

'How long that takes varies; sometimes it never happens at all, however the good news is that if a medication-resistant virus does mutate then for some reason it becomes less infectious and harder to spread from person to person.'

Only three people around the world with swine flu have been found to be resistant to Tamiflu treatment.

WHAT HAPPENS IF THE SWINE FLU VIRUS MUTATES?

If it mutates, there is a possibility that the virus will become resistant to Tamiflu in which case relenza, the alternative anti-viral treatment, would be used instead. However things may not get this bad.

SHOULD YOU TAKE TAMIFLU ON HOLIDAY?

Now that Tamiflu is not widely available as a preventative measure, it is unlikely that you would be able to get hold of a supply to take away with you - unless your GP agreed you were in a high risk group and needed it.

'If you develop symptoms while abroad, seek medical advice locally,' says a spokesman for the Health Protection Agency.

Do not attempt to travel if you do have the symptoms as in many international airports there are now heat sensitive cameras which can detect people with a high temperature.
The Health Protection Agency recommends that if you have the symptoms of swine flu do not travel

Risks: The Health Protection Agency recommends that if you have the symptoms of swine flu do not travel

WHEN WILL THERE BE A VACCINE AND WILL IT WORK?

The first batch of the vaccine will be available by late August or early September, however the truth is that scientists have not even finished developing it yet. When it does come, it will be necessary to give everybody two jabs.

The Government has initially ordered only 60million doses - so if everyone does need two does there will not be enough to go round.

The Department of Health said: 'We have not decided how the vaccination programme will work, but it would seem sensible that those at risk such as people with underlying chest problems, pregnant women and possibly healthcare workers will receive the vaccine first.'

The next batch of the vaccine would not be available until towards the end of the year - traditionally when the flu season peaks. Just how much protection the vaccine will offer is open to question. The traditional winter flu jab offers around 70-80 per cent protection and the Department of Health expects a swine flu vaccine to offer a similar leve


And this is how it works in a real life situation



HOW WELL DOES NHS DIRECT WORK?

Anyone concerned about swine flu is told to use the NHS Direct swine flu symptom checker (a website) or call the National Swine Flu Information Line 08001 513 513 (a recorded message).

If you're still concerned, you're meant to call your GP for a diagnosis over the phone.

However, many have been contacting NHS Direct itself. There have been considerable delays in getting through, with one mother being told it would be ten hours before someone could call back about her 12-year-old daughter (in fact no one called).

But as we discovered, some are having to wait up to 23 hours to speak to a medic. When one of our writers called NHS Direct about her seven-year-old son (ill with a high temperature, headache, sore tummy and lethargy) she was put straight through to a recorded message - which explained how overwhelmed the service was.

Only the elderly, those with an underlying medical condition, the very young or the seriously ill are meant to stay on the line to speak to a human being (in the first instance, a 'call handler' who takes initial information to assess the urgency).

Everyone else is directed to the Flu Line, which in turn directs you to the NHS website 'symptom checker'. When our writer decided to stay on the NHS Direct line, her wait began in earnest. Another message explained how busy they were and that they were doing all they could to answer calls.

Around eight minutes later an operator answered and asked her questions about her son's age, symptoms, and if he'd been in contact with swine flu. The operator decided his case was not urgent so the next stage was for him to be assessed over the phone by a nurse who would call back.

But the wait currently stood at between four and 17 hours. Although she was told she could expect a call within ten hours, the operator admitted that in some cases people were having to wait for 23 hours.

And if the patient deteriorated in the meantime? You're meant to call NHS Direct back. Dr Martin Scurr, the Mail GP, said: 'This kind of delay in proper medical contact is scandalous. The idea that you have to wait for many, many hours before you can even talk to a medical professional is absurd.

'You shouldn't have to wait for more than two hours. Even then, the idea that a nurse is the appropriate medic to be handling these problems over the phone is deeply worrying.

'NHS Direct is simply fobbing people off, and yet the Government PR machine will say, "Yes, we've got it all under control".

'But I bet no politician is going to wait ten hours to talk to a nurse if their child is sick. They'll be jumping the queue.'



It's not an outbreak of the black death that we're talking about. Just something that might put you in bed for a couple of days with a fever.


I wonder if you are a single parent of a child whose temperature is not coming down and is not eating and is not responding well how would you react ???????

This happened to my friend, her boy was really badly, constantly vomiting, not eating and with high temperature for days and dehydrated and needed emergency attention twice.
 restless_native

Joined: 12/17/2006
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Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/14/2009 6:21:06 PM

I wonder if you are a single parent of a child whose temperature is not coming down and is not eating and is not responding well how would you react ???????


I'm not in that position and neither are the vast majority of other people. The risk is that resources could be diverted from people like those you mention by others who are needlessly putting a strain on the system.


This happened to my friend, her boy was really badly, constantly vomiting, not eating and with high temperature for days and dehydrated and needed emergency attention twice.


How would you feel if your friends boy didn't get immediate medical treatment because all the medical staff were busy dealing with people who just felt a bit off colour?
 johnconiston

Joined: 1/3/2007
Msg: 30
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Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/24/2009 4:39:40 PM
swine flu for many will not be a big deal
for asthmatics or those with challenged immunity to illness- diabetics /heavy smokers/drinkers-CF sufferers then it may be a big deal but typically not now- late september onwards but by then flu jabs will hopefully be available- presently i understand the death toll in the uk to be 31 oover the last month. if you put this against the daily death toll on UK roads of around 10 persons per day then this may rationalise the scale of the situation (although of course any death is significant) so what to do? the flu friend idea is a good one, not only for infection of others- but doctors surgeries are the most likeley contact anyone will have with an infected person.
so what to do?
wash hands regularly.
dont handshake,
and limit going to crowded events are all good advice.
but the best bit of advice is: at the first sign of illness-contact your?GP
one thing i would like to know- all victims of the flue have had "underlying health issues"- what are they?
 katonahottinroof

Joined: 4/1/2009
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Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 1:35:34 AM
I definitely have swine flu, I've got a crackling headache and my trotters are killing me
 sweetness30

Joined: 10/14/2005
Msg: 32
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Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 1:51:42 AM
My daughter has just gotten over swine flu. I'd have thought it was heavy cold if it hadn't been for her temperature. I only checked because she'd been in contact with someone on dialysis and didn't want to risk it. She's asthmatic and her breathing was a bit touch and go for a while there. 7 days later she was allowed out. There's not a lot you can do about it other than follow basic personal hygiene. That surely is common knowledge? Oh and i haven't had a leaflet through the door either.
 A_Cornucopia

Joined: 5/21/2007
Msg: 33
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Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 2:16:19 AM
The NHS has done an excellent 'job' on Swine Flu - The WHO recognises Great Britain as one of the two best organised and prepared countries in the world. What's missing is an A/H1N1 anti viral - Tamiflu is generic. Because it is a pandemic and of a virulent but mild flu strain the NHS has moved from trying to contain the outbreak (which is now pandemic) to concentrating on 'at risk' groups. For this very reason, they want to keep flu sufferers away from medical centres A&E departments and Doctors. A buddying system is in place for GP Surgeries, Hospitals and Dentists - to ensure that as these are 'hit' - services are maintained.

Some resources have also been marshalled and reserved - such as masks - so that if the virus mutates additional protection can be offered key staff and at risk people. This is all pending the production of the anti-virus in bulk - and distribution points have been planned and organised.

Rather than slag off the NHS - we should be praising it and proud of it in this instance - it is doing a SUPERB job. And many staff have put in many extra unpaid hours to get the planning, infrastructure and services to deal with the pandemic in place.
 Scints

Joined: 6/11/2009
Msg: 34
Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 3:26:52 AM
PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU THINK ABOUT TAKING THE TAMIFLU VACCINE.
IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO READ BOTH SIDES BEFORE MAKING YOUR DECISION.

Firstly, Baxter's is the company making the swine flu vaccine. Funnily enough, they were granted millions to come up with the vcaccine a year before the swine flu came about, and they did, although what we have is a trial vaccine.

Baxter's is the same company who "accidentally" put LIVE avain flu into seasonal flu vaccines in batches to 18 countries which could have killed millions, but it was found out in Austria. The journalist Jane Burgermeister has evidence and it is fact that Baxter's did this:

http://www.naturalnews.com/026503_pandemic_swine_flu_bioterrorism.html

As the anticipated July release date for Baxter's A/H1N1 flu pandemic vaccine approaches, an Austrian investigative journalist is warning the world that the greatest crime in the history of humanity is underway. Jane Burgermeister has recently filed criminal charges with the FBI against the World Health Organization (WHO), the United Nations (UN), and several of the highest ranking government and corporate officials concerning bioterrorism and attempts to commit mass murder. She has also prepared an injunction against forced vaccination which is being filed in America. These actions follow her charges filed in April against Baxter AG and Avir Green Hills Biotechnology of Austria for producing contaminated bird flu vaccine, alleging this was a deliberate act to cause and profit from a pandemic.

Summary of claims and allegations filed with FBI in Austria on June 10, 2009

In her charges, Burgermeister presents evidence of acts of bioterrorism that is in violation of U.S. law by a group operating within the U.S. under the direction of international bankers who control the Federal Reserve, as well as WHO, UN and NATO. This bioterrorism is for the purpose of carrying out a mass genocide against the U.S. population by use of a genetically engineered flu pandemic virus with the intent of causing death. This group has annexed high government offices in the U.S.


Also, when the swine flu vaccine came out in the early 70's, not many people died from it, but the vaccine was encouraged without telling people the side effects. 4,000 or more people developed neurological disorders, became paralysed, suffered heart attacks or died from the vaccine. It is reported here on 60 minutes.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4c9Is1T3z4

There is more to fear from taking the current vaccine for swine flu than in the actual swine flu.
Here are the numbers for swine flu versus regular seasonal flu. I think I'll take my chances without the vaccine.


http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/04/28/regular.flu/index.html

Worldwide, the annual death toll from the flu is estimated to be between 250,000 and 500,000.
About 9 out of 10 of those deaths are among people older than 65, Currie said. Most times, they already have health problems that the flu makes worse, he said.
"Regular influenza can be taxing," he said. "It causes their underlying disease to decompensate and then they don't have the reserves to get through it.




http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17466-swine-flu-death-rate-estimates-flawed.html

At present, the estimate of the death rate in the UK and the US is 0.5 per cent, meaning that about five people die for every 1000 people infected.
 Alma G Mahler

Joined: 5/14/2009
Msg: 35
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Posted: 7/25/2009 3:52:37 AM
PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU THINK ABOUT TAKING THE TAMIFLU VACCINE.


Tamiflu has nothing to do with the vaccine, they are two different things, Tamiflu is an antiviral medicine, vaccine is a jab but this vaccine for the swine flu does not exist as yet.

What Tamiflu does is attacking the virus to not to spread in our body and this can only be done if Tamiflu is taken if first 48 hours.

Vaccine itself is for preventive, to protect people who did not get swine flu as yet.

Vaccine is being created ( not only by Baxter but few other companies plus their methods of vaccine production are different !!) for the current swine flu strain which is circulating in the world, in case this strain mutates then the vaccine would not be 100% effective. So it could be effective 50%, 70% or similar.

The problem with this vaccine is that it does not have time to be fully tested on human beings which might result some of the humans reacting badly to it. But, this is the case with many vaccines.

With the swine flu spreading on current level, the need for hospitalisation of many people would appear.

And this is the main problem the swine flu is causing, as it spreads quite fast, many people would only have mild symptoms but as the number of people with swine flu increases there is a big number of hospitalisation needed, the hospital beds needed do not exist, especially beds for specialised treatment, as well as the number of the health workers which would increase the number of deaths.

This is why the vaccination is needed, to decrease the need of hospital beds and protect people who on the end would need hospitalisation and whose life would be in danger.

Re Austrian journalist who is suing Mr Obama and WHO, if what she claims is true then they are not doing very well in their attempt, so far only 800 people have died from swine flu
 Scints

Joined: 6/11/2009
Msg: 36
Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 4:47:05 AM
It is a very difficult job suing the leading health organisations and the American government, but the FACT remains that Baxter's (the same company trailling the swine flu vaccine) DID put live avian flu into the vaccine which could have cost millions of lives. There are many documents expressing this. Here is another:


http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/bioweapons-dangerous-vaccines-and-threats-of-a-global-pandemic/
The contaminated product, “a mix of H3N2 seasonal flu viruses and unlabelled H5N1 (Avian Flu) viruses, was supplied to an Austrian research company….Avir Green Hills Biotechnology.” It then “sent portions of it to sub-contractors in the Czech Republic, Slovenia and Germany.”

The problem was discovered when The Czech Republic company discovered that ferrets innoculated with the product died. “Ferrets shouldn’t die from exposure to human H3N2 flu viruses.” Public health authorities called it a “serious error” that showed “the H5N1 virus in the product was live.” But Baxter “has been parsimonious about the amount of information it has released about the event.” Christopher Bona, the company’s global bioscience communications director, did confirm that the material was a “live….experimental virus” made at the Orth-Donau research laboratory.


And, as I mentioned before, there is a far greater risk from regular flu, than swine flu.

And once again, the vaccine is on trial. I don't want our children being used as guinea-pigs when the last swine flu vaccine caused more deaths and huge amounts of neurological diseases than the actual swine flu.
 Alma G Mahler

Joined: 5/14/2009
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Posted: 7/25/2009 5:09:35 AM
^^^^

First of all the "last" swine flu vaccine happened in 70's and it was in US, it did not cause people to die massively, but it did cause a ' common syndrome' among the vaccine takers.
At this moment, the number of infected people in the world is maybe 1000% higher than during that episode in US in 70'S

Every vaccination brings its risks, but we are being vaccinated against the different diseases from the time we get born.

The information that the swine flu is less dangerous than the normal seasonal flu is incorrect. So far, swine flu has been shown to be 5 times more virulent and it is attacking the different age group then the normal seasonal flu

Getting the swine flu jab when it becomes available is not mandatory so anyone can choose not to get vaccinated or not to vaccinate their children.

UK has made an order for vaccines some time ago among the fist nations but were told that they will get much less than they ordered so there would obviously be a shortage.
 Artemis2009

Joined: 6/15/2009
Msg: 38
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Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 6:26:05 AM
I filled in the government online assessment and am being issued with anti-viral meds. They give you an authorisation number and you get someone to collect the meds from your local collection point.
 SanToki

Joined: 4/28/2007
Msg: 39
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Posted: 7/25/2009 6:30:53 AM
swine flu for many will not be a big deal

Last year, there were more cases of tuberculosis in London alone, than there have been cases of Swine Flu in the whole country so far...

 Alma G Mahler

Joined: 5/14/2009
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Posted: 7/25/2009 6:35:14 AM
Last year, there were more cases of tuberculosis in London alone, than there have been cases of Swine Flu in the whole country so far...


Are you sure in that?

Only in one week there has been 100 000 cases of swine flu in the UK

In the week before there were 50 000 cases

Are you saying there has been 200 000 cases of tuberculosis in London in 2008?

If this is true, that would be an epidemic of tuberculosis IMO....

Mathematically speaking the grow of flu epidemic is following an exponential curve

And WHO said we are only on the beginning.

According to Health protection agency


3,415 tuberculosis cases were diagnosed among those living in London during 2008

http://www.hpa.org.uk/webw/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1237889522846?p=1158945065095
so you are WRONG !
 RobinsonUK

Joined: 1/2/2009
Msg: 41
Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 6:36:13 AM
It's a mild form of the flu, it's not ebola for fecks sake. Thousands of people die each year from the flu yet we don't have a national plan for it. In my view, spending hundreds of millions of pounds on tamiflu when the majority of people have a top class immune system that will kill the virus in a few days is a complete waste of money.
 Scints

Joined: 6/11/2009
Msg: 42
Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 6:42:34 AM
There are 12,000 people die in the UK alone every year through seasonal flu related illnesses.
People can believe this hype about swine flu, but I doubt in it's current form it will kill nearly as many people.
Obviously government related articles and news will tell you that the swine flu could kill more people, but I believe this is an attempt to make more people take the vaccine. You only have to look on youtube to find hundreds of educated researchers who insist that this swine flu is man-made, and will cause more harm when a host is exposed to the vaccine in addition to seasonal flu. Then it will become more dangerous.

Why youtube etc? Because that is the only way to reach the public since attempts to air it on television have been blocked.

I'm just asking people to look into it for themselves before they believe everything the government and the World Health Organisation say. They have their own agenda.
 Scints

Joined: 6/11/2009
Msg: 43
Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 6:54:17 AM
Here is a link which could fill you in a bit more. You can watch it or read the info beneath it. It came out on 23rd July and does a better job at explaining why you shouldn't believe the WHO.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/07/23/Journalist-Accuses-WHO-of-Plan-to-Commit-Mass-Murder.aspx



So no matter how you feel about Jane Burgermeister or her allegations in totality, the real and urgent problem we face right now is the possibility of forced vaccinations against the swine flu – a threat that is being unreasonably hyped by WHO and health agencies around the world, despite the fact that your chances of being struck by lightning is 2,300 percent higher than your risk of contracting and dying from the swine flu…

Even former Presidential candidate, Congressman Ron Paul (who is also a doctor) has gone on record stating that the swine flu is little more than hysterical hype for financial gain. In his video address he also reminds you about the outcome of the last swine flu vaccination program, which took place in 1976.

At that time, one person died from the actual flu, while 25 people died by adverse reactions from the supposed life-saving vaccine, and several hundred people developed crippling Guillain-Barré Syndrome.

In his opinion – and I agree – when the swine flu is put into perspective of regular flu deaths, tuberculosis and other contagious diseases, the swine flu is a total non-event.

These massive, international, multi-agency and military countermeasures are absolutely out of proportion to the actual threat of this flu.

When you really consider all the facts and risks, the current crisis response to the swine flu does raise questions about motive. Why the overkill “precaution” of a mass vaccination program against a disease that causes MAINLY mild symptoms and has an extremely low risk of death?

Jane Burgermeister believes she has the answer, and that she can prove it. According to her findings, which are part of her package of criminal charges, the vaccine itself may pose a far greater danger than the virus itself.


VVVVVVVVVVVV
anniesea, it was in their vaccines sent to 18 European labs as a basis for their VACCINE PRODUCTION

 gemini_lady_uk

Joined: 7/16/2008
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Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 6:54:52 AM
RobinsonUK - I think the main difference with Swine Flu and 'regular' every day flu is that it is out of season (generally people get hit by flu in the winter) and the fact it spreads so easily. Yes there may be a great many people die from 'regular' flu but if this one spreads so easily, how many more will die.

Regular strains of flu causes a fair amount of disruption in the winter months ie people taking time off work, complications for people with previous medical history ie asthma, poor immune systems or the old or very young. Additional work for GP's, hospitals.

Swine flu is causing disruption already, how much worse will it be over the winter months when people are more susceptible.

Normally in the office I work, people with mild flu symptoms still go in and just get on with things (although they shouldn't really) - and yes, possibly pass flu onto one or two others.

With Swine flu, it's likely to be passed to the majority, I know many people will say big deal, they will just get over it - and they will - only what about the nursing homes and physically vulnerable people they in turn pass it on to.

My daughter has ME therefore her immune system struggles to cope, my gran is 94 - for them any flu puts them at risk - it's not that Swine flu is necessarily worse than 'regular' flu - it is the ease with which it can be passed on.
 anniesea

Joined: 11/3/2007
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Posted: 7/25/2009 7:00:29 AM
Msg 34:

Baxter's "mix-up" was NOT in flu vaccine, but in "experimental research material".

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/02/27/8560781.html

The link is to a NEWS article not OpEd videos on YouTube.
 Alma G Mahler

Joined: 5/14/2009
Msg: 46
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Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 7:12:52 AM
The difference between the swine flu and regular flu is that swine flu prefers the different age group and is able to kill otherwise healthy people.

Usually the spread rate of a normal flu is bellow 50% and it affects mostly older people, yesterday it was announced that the swine flu spread rate is 75% in southern hemisphere ( areas where now is the winter time)

What we will get this winter is usual deaths from the seasonal flu as well as the deaths from swine flu in addition.
 SanToki

Joined: 4/28/2007
Msg: 47
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Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 7:22:56 AM
Last year, there were more cases of tuberculosis in London alone, than there have been cases of Swine Flu in the whole country so far...

Are you sure in that?

Not so much now, I haven't looked at the figures recently as they're of no real interest - there's no point worrying about things you cannot change. It was definitely true at some point though

 RobinsonUK

Joined: 1/2/2009
Msg: 48
Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 8:05:02 AM

The difference between the swine flu and regular flu is that swine flu prefers the different age group and is able to kill otherwise healthy people.


This is just...wrong. The reason people over 30 are less likely to catch it is because some of them may already have some immunity from past infection. The current swine flu virus is less virulent, even in children, than regular flu. In the US, for every 1,000 people who catch it, around 40 need hospital treatment and one dies. Previous mass deaths from Swine flu (1918 for instance), were not caused by the main infection, but by secondary, bacterial infections, in the absence of anti-biotics.
 Scints

Joined: 6/11/2009
Msg: 49
Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 9:08:05 AM
Other than being old, young or infirm, the only people who are mostly at risk is people who are obese. Again, plenty of info on that.

Here's one:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1202076/Swine-flu-The-facts-need-know.html
 Alma G Mahler

Joined: 5/14/2009
Msg: 50
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Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 9:16:40 AM
This is just...wrong. The reason people over 30 are less likely to catch it is because some of them may already have some immunity from past infection. The current swine flu virus is less virulent, even in children, than regular flu. In the US, for every 1,000 people who catch it, around 40 need hospital treatment and one dies. Previous mass deaths from Swine flu (1918 for instance), were not caused by the main infection, but by secondary, bacterial infections, in the absence of anti-biotics.


People over 30 are less likely to catch it?



And you KNOW the reasons?

Well, maybe you should get a job for WHO as a psychic because the world's most prestigious scientists are unsure in this !

Immunity is not possible as this is a NEW virus, only very old people like ones who survived Spanish flu are immune as well as people older than 65 who survived a pandemic in 1957 have SOME immunity to it.

Majority of deaths NOW are also caused by secondary infection like bacterial and viral pneumonia and also by bacterial infections, there are many young and completely healthy people dying right now in Argentina ( it is their winter time), their death rate is 1.3%

Only 40% of people who are hospitalised in US have underlying health conditions, the other 60% are completely healthy.

It is not true that people over 30 are immune to swine flu and swine flu is not a children's play as some people try to present it.
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