| Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 9:32:01 AM |
Other than being old, young or infirm, the only people who are mostly at risk is people who are obese. Again, plenty of info on that.
Here's one:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1202076/Swine-flu-The-facts-need-know.html
The problem is that viruses are prone to mutations, and it is known from the history that a pandemic comes in waves.
The first wave of 1918 pandemic was very mild.
The second wave was a killer.
During this time many young and healthy adults died. The reason for their deaths is called cytokine storm ( you can google on cytokine storm)
Cytokine storm also killed people who died of H5N1 ( bird flu) and SARS.
So far there are no many deaths caused by cytokine storm in this pandemic, but this does not mean that it is not going to happen. Influenza ( flu) virus prefers the cold weather and during the cold weather is the best for the virus to spread.
If young and healthy people start dying suddenly this is a sign that the cytokine storm is happening and this is what the scientists are afraid of.
The speed of the spread of this virus is also quite unusual, it was said that this is the fastest pandemic so far.
WHO is looking at Australia, Argentina etc as it is the winter time there.
So far this virus is not resistant to Tamiflu although some strains of H1N1 which circulate among seasonal flu are already resistant to Tamiflu. Few Tamiflu resistant swine flu cases were found in the world and WHO is afraid that this might lead into a Tamiflu resistant strain of swine flu circulating around which might then be more powerful. But so far there are no indications about this happening. | |
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| Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 12:33:55 PM |
Other than being old, young or infirm, the only people who are mostly at risk is people who are obese. Again, plenty of info on that.
Here's one:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1202076/Swine-flu-The-facts-need-know.html
So, once everyone who is at risk is removed from the list, the obese were the ones mostly at risk?
Swine flu is currently a minor illness. However it is a minor illness to which we have no immunity. The first wave will therefore infect a lot of people but kill relatively few.
The second wave may be far more virulent, if the virus mutates. Then we will have some people with some immunity but those that didn't catch it first time could face infection with a nastier disease while still having no immunity. | |
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Scints
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Joined: 6/11/2009
Msg: 53 | |
| Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 1:51:49 PM |
Swine flu is currently a minor illness. However it is a minor illness to which we have no immunity. The first wave will therefore infect a lot of people but kill relatively few.
The second wave may be far more virulent, if the virus mutates. Then we will have some people with some immunity but those that didn't catch it first time could face infection with a nastier disease while still having no immunity.
Yes, hula, you're right. It will mutate, as viruses do quickly in the beginning. They then peak, and slow down.
However, vaccinations (even at best) will give temporary resistance, but having a mild dose of the virus will make a person more immune for the rest of their days.
Robinson didn't have it quite right regarding over 30's having an immunity to the swine flu. It is in fact people born before 1957 in the States who will have the best natural immunity having been exposed to a similar strain.
Also, in the out break in 1957 (Asian flu which killed 680,000 Americans I think) the government had dished out huge amounts of Aspirin to people recommending they take it at the first signs of a rising temperature. Aspirin lowers the body temperature making it more susceptible to viruses.
Same as Tamiflu!
All I'm saying is don't follow everything the government, pharmaceutical companies and WHO say. They've screwed up plenty before and have their own agenda. Read up for yourself so you're in a position to make that decision regarding the H1N1 vaccine for yourselves. | |
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| Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 2:45:49 PM | Despite being a bit of a porker (sorry), I have no real concerns about swine flu for myself. I think we have things as much under control here is it is possible to be, when in a situation that can be controlled as easily as plaiting fog. I do have concerns for my mum, who is diabetic and has heart problems.
Last weekend I was possibly exposed to swine flu, a good friend and her son went down with it just after a party at their place. I decided that while the risk of me actually catching it were very low, I wasn't going anywhere near my mum, just in case. I also chose to keep out of the way of my bezzy as her Dad has just had heart surgery. | |
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| Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 2:51:00 PM | Yes, hula, you're right. It will mutate, as viruses do quickly in the beginning. They then peak, and slow down.
However, vaccinations (even at best) will give temporary resistance, but having a mild dose of the virus will make a person more immune for the rest of their days.
Robinson didn't have it quite right regarding over 30's having an immunity to the swine flu. It is in fact people born before 1957 in the States who will have the best natural immunity having been exposed to a similar strain.
Also, in the out break in 1957 (Asian flu which killed 680,000 Americans I think) the government had dished out huge amounts of Aspirin to people recommending they take it at the first signs of a rising temperature. Aspirin lowers the body temperature making it more susceptible to viruses.
Same as Tamiflu!
All I'm saying is don't follow everything the government, pharmaceutical companies and WHO say. They've screwed up plenty before and have their own agenda. Read up for yourself so you're in a position to make that decision regarding the H1N1 vaccine for yourselves.
I am not sure where are you getting your info from but almost everything you said here is incorrect.
1. Tamiflu is not even close to Aspirin. Tamiflu is an antiviral drug which works in this way: it stops the replications of the virus to the new healthy cells in the body of an infected host and is not killing the virus but it does weaken it.. Tamiflu has nothing to do with reducing the fever.
Aspirin is analgesic, anti inflammatory and used for pain relief and reducing of fever.
2 People who survived 1957 pandemic are only ( possibly!) partly immune, there have been deaths from swine flu this year of people older than 65 and it was never said by any health authority that this is for sure, CDC in US mentioned it few times that they are seeing less patients falling with swine flu among the older generation and they suspect there is a possible level of immunity among them.
3. vaccination does not give a temporary resistance, it gives a level of immunity which if virus does not change might be 100% or if virus changes a lot might be 50% .
4 If you survive the swine flu you do not get a higher immunity then if you instead receive a flu jab, it is about the same
I am sorry to be pain in the neck on this subject but I read a lot out of what CDC and scientific field said or released about the current swine flu spread and I am therefore sure in facts I write and know where to find the info if questioned | |
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Scints
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Joined: 6/11/2009
Msg: 56 | |
| Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 7/25/2009 3:23:07 PM | 1. http://www.mayanmajix.com/art2097.html
The flu shot does not actually give immunity or prevent infection, especially if the person also takes cold medications or prophylactics such as Tamiflu which lower the body temperature and thwart the normal immune system fever response. It could actually be deadly.
http://www.answers.com/topic/aspirin-1
In addition to relieving pain and reducing inflammation, aspirin also lowers fever by acting on the part of the brain that regulates temperature. The brain then signals the blood vessels to widen, which allows heat to leave the body more quickly.
2. http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/June-2009/Swine-Flu-Vaccine--Will-We-Have-A-Choice--by-Barba.aspx
Influenza pandemics usually start with mild symptoms and progress to more severe symptoms before populations acquire immunity to the virus and it dies out.
Older Americans May Have Antibodies Against Swine Flu
[The good news about the new swine flu going around is that there are signs those of us born before 1957, may be naturally protected and at LOWER risk of being infected11,12. Why?
Because we recovered from influenza caused by similar influenza strains that circulated in past decades and have long lasting antibodies that help us resist infection. So the aging baby boomers have something to be happy about.]
3 & 4. http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/June-2009/Swine-Flu-Vaccine--Will-We-Have-A-Choice--by-Barba.aspx
[And vaccine acquired immunity is temporary, while immunity gained after recovering from influenza is longer lasting7,8.]
Here's some of the sources, but again, there is plenty more if people were just willing to open their eyes to the possibility that all is not what it seems. | |
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| Swine Flu
Posted: 7/26/2009 9:18:07 AM | I think Swine Flu is overrated.
If you think about it, not so long back we had Bird Flu, everyone was panicking about that. Some time before Bird Flu, we had Bluetongue (I think thats what it was called), and everyone was panicking about that, and again, before Bluetongue, we had Mad Cow Disease.
As soon as Swine Flu blows over, they'll be something else to worry about. There always is. Sure, people have died over Swine Flu, but to be honest, no more people have died because of that than they have of any other illness. The whole situation we have now is just the government / media blowing things well out of proportion. | |
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| Swine Flu
Posted: 7/26/2009 4:01:43 PM | I live close to worcester and we had our leaflets through the door back in May.
Today i thought i was going down with it. I went out shopping yesterday morning okay came back around 2.30pm and i went down with some kind of bug . I ached all over, sneezing, headache which as lasted two days. Ive took paracetamol to keep temp down.
Today i stayed in bed and the sweat poured from me. I rang the nhs line and answered the questions asked.A prompt reply was had telling me what to do and also a code so as someone can call for the antiviral and the collection point.
Im just hoping this is a false alarm. | |
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| Swine Flu
Posted: 7/27/2009 12:55:10 AM | A minor illness???
My daughter has just recovered from it and i have never known her so ill!
She couldn't walk and she was delirious, but she recovered as quick as she got it.
The problem is that the initial symptoms aren't always the same, she started of with an upset stomach and thought that she had food poisoning so by the time the rest hit her the doc said she had left it to late for the tamiflu.
An elderly neighbour has it too though and although he is in his 80's he has it quite mild, maybe it due to him having the flu jab recently i don't know. | |
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| Swine Flu
Posted: 7/27/2009 4:22:21 AM | | ....................................... | |
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| Swine Flu
Posted: 7/27/2009 5:19:12 AM | That's the thing though, it can be minor for some but hell for others. It's been reported that the strain has been relatively mild for most but it is still unpredictable in how it's going to affect someone.
A friend of mine had to have an ambulance come out to him the other week whilst suffering with it and that was after he had gone to the doctors a week later complaining of flu like symptoms and then only getting penicillin for it?!  | |
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| Swine Flu
Posted: 7/27/2009 7:21:05 AM |
A friend of mine had to have an ambulance come out to him the other week whilst suffering with it and that was after he had gone to the doctors a week later complaining of flu like symptoms and then only getting penicillin for it
Actually, penicillin is alright in this case !
Seven days after the swine flu, the flu is mostly gone but it has weakened the body a lot
People mostly do not die from swine flu but from the secondary infection after it, be it viral or bacterial pneumonia or similar.
If it is bacterial pneumonia or any bacterial infection then it is treated with antibiotics.
What actually happens is that virus exhausts the body immunity and the body then becomes prone to the secondary infection. | |
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Scints
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Joined: 6/11/2009
Msg: 63 | |
| Swine Flu
Posted: 8/16/2009 3:20:59 AM | As predicted, the new swine flu vaccine will probably carry the same side-effects as the 1976 swine flu vaccine which got pulled after many people sued the government for not informing them of the side effects.
bluesman quoted this from newspaper today:
A warning that the new swine flu jab is linked to a deadly nerve disease has been sent by the Government to senior neurologists in a confidential letter.
The letter from the Health Protection Agency, the official body that oversees public health, has been leaked to The Mail on Sunday, leading to demands to know why the information has not been given to the public before the vaccination of millions of people, including children, begins.
It tells the neurologists that they must be alert for an increase in a brain disorder called Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS), which could be triggered by the vaccine.
GBS attacks the lining of the nerves, causing paralysis and inability to breathe, and can be fatal.
The letter, sent to about 600 neurologists on July 29, is the first sign that there is concern at the highest levels that the vaccine itself could cause serious complications.
The rest of the story is here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1206807/Swine-flu-jab-link-killer-nerve-disease-Leaked-letter-reveals-concern-neurologists-25-deaths-America.html
Bearing in mind we are now not allowed to sue for any side-effects since the makers of the swine flu vaccine and involved government officials will be immune from any lawsuits arising from the vaccine. Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius has signed a document guaranteeing that neither the government nor industry will take responsibility for any damage or death caused by these vaccines, which have had very limited testing and are being produced under rushed circumstances. | |
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| Swine Flu
Posted: 8/16/2009 3:40:54 AM | I think the moral here is not to believe too much of what the Daily Mail prints. It has some history of printing half-truths, spurious research and anything it can to create sensationalist stories of doom and gloom.
Overall the NHS has done a first class job with A/H1N1. The first signs of a mutated virus have been found and that's where its planning and set up of ACPs will come into play.
As for the posting above mentioning Bird Flu - we didn't have a Bird Flu pandemic, but people were right to worry about it - whilst less virulent than A/H1N1 - it was/is far more lethal. | |
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| Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 8/16/2009 4:12:13 AM | My scheduled duty at an ACP was cancelled the week before last, due to cutbacks in the opening hours due to a fall in demand for the Tamiflu antivirals. This could be due to
1) Initial over-reactions and panick with people 'getting stocks in' before they went on holiday, etc
2) People's reaction to the news of side-effects to Tamiflu
3) People realising that Tamiflu, if taken in the first 48 hours, will only lessen the effects of the influenza for 1/2 to 1 day.
4) People collecting their Tamiflu prescription from TESCO's or other participating supermarkets - frankly an unbeleivable policy decision by those in charge!! OK... flu friends should be collecting the antivirals BUT as colleagues in ACPs have reported, many symptomatic people are collecting their own and quite probably buying the last minute milk or bread for whilst they're ill whilst they wait!!!! Genius!
No doubt the second wave will come as predicted and all the ACPs will be needed fully staffed in Autumn. | |
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Scints
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Joined: 6/11/2009
Msg: 66 | |
| Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 8/16/2009 5:10:34 AM |
As for the posting above mentioning Bird Flu - we didn't have a Bird Flu pandemic, but people were right to worry about it - whilst less virulent than A/H1N1 - it was/is far more lethal.
AC, I'm not sure if you meant my post, because I didn't mention Bird Flu. If you're referring to 1976, it was swine flu, not bird flu. Swine flu where more people died from the vaccine than the virus, and 500 people were disabled with GBS. Same side-effects as they are predicting with this vaccine. | |
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| Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 8/16/2009 5:34:24 AM |
All I'm saying is don't follow everything the government, pharmaceutical companies and WHO say. They've screwed up plenty before and have their own agenda.
The lady is right. Anyone remember Thalidimide? Google that one for a refresher. Then read this article about this, our latest "panic". Personally, I trust government about as far as I can throw it. Any government. And I trust government a lot less than youtube these days. With so many credible neuro scientists screaming about the danger of this "vaccine", that I'll not be rolling my sleeves up any time soon except perhaps to wash my hands. With friends like the drug companies, who needs enemies.
http://www.dailyrecord.com/article/20090816/OPINION03/90814054/1005/NEWS01/Swine-flu-panic-an-absurd-falsehood--- | |
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| Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 11/8/2009 4:39:58 AM | | Would you trust the person at the end of the phone line, on the national pandemic phone line to tell you that>>>>>>> yes you do have swine flu after asking you half a dozen questions and dishing out tami flu like a hand full of sweets. OR would you insist that your doctor had a blood test done to see if you did have H1N1 strain of swine flu? | |
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| Swine Flu? Is our NHS reactive when they should be proactive?
Posted: 11/8/2009 12:02:02 PM | My son has had swine flu as with the odd few of his friends in school , to be honest IMO
isnt it common sense , its no different from real influenza in fact the symptoms are milder in people who dont have an underlying illness..
I have had real flu I would say twice in my life and trust me you know when you have it, you will not lift your head off that pillow even to go to the doctor there is nothing they can do..
get some lemsip olbas oil and a steamer there you go sorted if its no better in a few days then get someone to get you the tamiflu take it and get over it lol
I am at college with someone who is a manager of the swine flu within the nhs.
I agree with the above why do we need to measure who gets it and not , my son didnt need the tamiflu although prescribed I am not that eager to push drugs into him to be fair..
I have spoken to various nurses and said people are in mass panic when they get a cold they think they have swine flu so are runnin the walk in centres and over running them , so dont think you will ever get a true statistical answer so why waste money we dont have to spend
I think you have a higher risk of developing something more sinister than you do of dying from swine flu if you are fit and healthy noramally ..
as for penicillin is anti botics that wont get rid of swine flu its not an infection its flu lol ...only as some has said for a chest infection or something that is an after effect like with most flu this can happen as well
trust me if you are ill enough you will know , my son had a very high temprature a cough and cold ...no stomach problems at all that has only been reported in some cases , we need to be careful.
my friends boyfriend had an ulcer and everyone was saying oh you have swine flu , its getting silly
I agree with those who are saying people are just over dramatic , same with bird flu and every flu before that ;) | |
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