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| Time for a showdown with the negative ones...
Posted: 7/21/2009 1:45:59 PM |
Futureshock, you can't hate on anyone for loving me!
I don't "hate on" itsallinthesoul, I like her very, very much.
Everyone loves me - even the people who hate my guts.
LOL!
In fact, I think they hate me so much because they know deep down that I'm charming, witty, and sexy, and would have no problem eating my poptarts with me. It TEARS THEM UP inside.
It's sad really.
Everyone should just embrace that 8sf8 = awesome.
ok. | |
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| Time for a showdown with the negative ones...
Posted: 7/21/2009 2:24:55 PM | itsallinthesoul, here is a classic example of why maybe being a bleeding heart may not be the best way to approach every single thread that gets started.
A thread currently running called "single mum to be" a young lady who 12 weeks away from having a child is here more concerned about her future dating relationships because she will be a single mom.
Post after post that follow are from other unwed moms who were either abused or dated guys that did drugs etc. all telling her that maybe it will be tough but you can do it.
Along comes futureshock and suggests that perhaps she should give the child up for adoption that way a couple who are unable to have a child could raise it. She is young and could wait until she does meet a worthy father to have another child.
Your response is "don't mind futureshock she is just upset that you are not married.
The common theme from all the responses is your child doesn't need a father, she because she chooses to keep the child is now a saint and do no wrong. Sue him for child support but don't let him be a father. How is this the best advice you could give?
Her answer is no I couldn't give up my child (for a shot at a better life) that would be wrong.
These couple pay upwards of 50,000 for the priveledge of having a child and it will most likely come from another country. There was a local company that charged 15000.
What if we were to charge these young ladies for their own children? Or at least make them pay for the medical costs. How many would, do you think?
Instead, there is good chance this child will be poorly dressed, unable to participate in many organized sports and be subjected to a parade of men they will have to call uncle somebody.
Our government will give her meager dollars but if she does go on welfare she will offered educational opportunities. An agency will help secure her housing and the list goes on.
If the child is lucky they might just make something of themselves or at least not end up in jail but you don;t believe in statistics and because you said so everything is going to be great.
There will be another joining next week, are you going to tell them the same thing too because even though you may not believe in stats they will not all succeed.
What then? | |
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| Time for a showdown with the negative ones...
Posted: 7/21/2009 3:21:02 PM | I wonder if President Obama feels this way about the life his one time single mother gave him......
granted that is an exceptional example - but definitely a larger then life in your face proof of the possibilities isnt it?
I was raised by a single mother in time much harsher then these when women werent even allowed to rent an apartment if it was discovered they were single mothers - they were turned away at every level of life from jobs, to apartments, to mortgages, to education even .... and trust me when I say - all of us (my siblings and myself) turned out as decent human beings with decent incomes and able to provide for ourselves, and our own, and we even take the time to give the last piece of bread to a neighbour if its needed - with no ill will.
While two parent families are obviously ideal - the suggestion that children in a single parent home are most likely not going to make it ---- is completely exaggerated. There is much more out there now for single parents in terms of support, and for underpriviledged children in terms of services/recreation/education/healthcare.
Last -just because a child is born to a single mother does not AUTOMATICALLY indicate that said child will be born into poverty and ingnorance. There are many single women who maintain their careers as they rear children, we are no longer required to stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, and part of the reason for that is .... many men walked away from their responsibilities forcing women into the workforce some decades ago.
While there are women out there who are clearly misguided when they conceive, and choose to maintain a pregnancy - this is not always the case, and not even close to the majority, contrary to your opinion.
Furthermore - there are serious allegations that giving a child up for adoption isnt AUTOMATICALLY the saving grace for the child who will be DEFINITELY getting a BETTER life because the adoptive parents have money - since when does money equate to a better life for a child who cares not what labels are in their clothing, but care more who tucks them into bed at night, and who will listen to them chatter at the morning breakfast table with love and patience.
I am not trying to say money doesnt offer a child more options and a better standard of living - that goes without saying - but you cant automatically ASSUME that the parents would be better parents just because they are paying a higher price. There is much learned in life through a childs eyes that can only be taught through love and stability. Those lessons sir - are priceless.
Nuff said. | |
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| Time for a showdown with the negative ones...
Posted: 7/21/2009 3:33:41 PM |
Furthermore - there are serious allegations that giving a child up for adoption isnt AUTOMATICALLY the saving grace for the child who will be DEFINITELY getting a BETTER life because the adoptive parents have money - since when does money equate to a better life for a child who cares not what labels are in their clothing, but care more who tucks them into bed at night, and who will listen to them chatter at the morning breakfast table with love and patience.
I am speaking for myself when I say this, but when I talk about adoption as a POSSIBLE "better life", I don't mean financially. Financial stability can offer stability in other areas of life, though, so it shouldn't be discounted. When I see a parent (single or otherwise) screaming bloody murder in the grocery store at their toddler, it is clear that they were not ready to become a parent. People who are ready enough to pay tens of thousands of dollars to become parents often have to wait a very long time, undergo very specific scrutiny and prove they are ready and able to take care of infant, toddler and child. I don't know if this is always true, but my great aunt adopted her granddaughter she had to undergo psychological evaluating and take parenting classes. Someone in an unplanned pregnancy is unlikely to be as a ready as an adoptive parent. | |
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| Time for a showdown with the negative ones...
Posted: 7/21/2009 4:13:30 PM | Furthermore - there are serious allegations that giving a child up for adoption isnt AUTOMATICALLY the saving grace for the child who will be DEFINITELY getting a BETTER life because the adoptive parents have money -
I don't think the poster meant adoptive parents are better just because they have money, but rather was pointing out it is an important factor.
since when does money equate to a better life for a child who cares not what labels are in their clothing, but care more who tucks them into bed at night, and who will listen to them chatter at the morning breakfast table with love and patience.
Adoptive parents also tuck their children in at night, listen to their chatter at the morning breakfast table with love and patience, and they love their children every bit as much as biological parents do. The difference is there is a mother AND a father, both parents are adults, are screened by professional agencies for fitness as parents, and they are financially secure.
Most unwed teen mothers cannot give their children anything close, without burdening either their own parents, the taxpayers, or both. Even then, they still can't, in most cases, equal everything an adoptive family can give the child. All of the help from grandparents and welfare can't equal having both parents, and having both of those people being adults who are more financially and emotionally mature and stable than the unwed teen, in most cases.
For more information on the outcomes of adopted children:
http://wingnutwatch.typepad.com/wingnutwatch/2009/04/why-adoption-is-often-the-better-decision-.html | |
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| Time for a showdown with the negative ones...
Posted: 7/21/2009 4:19:49 PM |
Adoptive parents also tuck their children in at night, listen to their chatter at the morning breakfast table with love and patience, and they love their children every bit as much as biological parents do. The difference is there is a mother AND a father, both parents are adults, are screened by professional agencies for fitness as parents, and they are financially secure.
Adoptive 2-parent households usually also spend more time with the child than a young, single mother. | |
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| Time for a showdown with the negative ones...
Posted: 7/21/2009 4:50:09 PM |
Furthermore - there are serious allegations that giving a child up for adoption isnt AUTOMATICALLY the saving grace for the child who will be DEFINITELY getting a BETTER life because the adoptive parents have money - since when does money equate to a better life for a child who cares not what labels are in their clothing, but care more who tucks them into bed at night, and who will listen to them chatter at the morning breakfast table with love and patience.
There is no gaurantee that any parent, young or old, rich or not, will do any of these things with thier kids. Adoption isn't necessarily "better" for babies of young moms, but for a young woman who has nowhere to go, doesn't have a dime to her name, who has to quit high school and find out how she is going to raise this baby... it certainly is something to consider.
Last -just because a child is born to a single mother does not AUTOMATICALLY indicate that said child will be born into poverty and ingnorance. There are many single women who maintain their careers as they rear children, we are no longer required to stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, and part of the reason for that is .... many men walked away from their responsibilities forcing women into the workforce some decades ago.
If you have already had a career, a home and money in your bank account before you got pregnant, you have a much better chance at keeping that all when the baby arrives. As a matter of fact, it's no different than that of a 2 parent household. But in the case of these teenagers getting pregnant, they don't have any of this. They haven't even found out who they are... many haven't even worked a real job yet and now they are bringing another human into this already confusing life. For a young woman in this case, adoption would be a great option. There's no shame in it. The baby goes to a 2 parent home, to two adults who have careers and who have been waiting for this moment for years... and the young woman can finish high school or college, go on to have a career a stable love life and focus on babies when she is good and ready.
BTW, nobody here has ever stated that if a child is born to a single mother is "AUTOMATICALLY" means the child is born into ignorance and poverty. I understand that is what you interpret, but that's never what is said. Your feeding the very stereotype that you discourage. | |
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| Time for a showdown with the negative ones...
Posted: 7/21/2009 5:35:30 PM |
BTW, nobody here has ever stated that if a child is born to a single mother is "AUTOMATICALLY" means the child is born into ignorance and poverty. I understand that is what you interpret, but that's never what is said. Your feeding the very stereotype that you discourage.
That's exactly right. I do not understand how someone can read a statement like this:
"Some children born to a single mother are born into ignorance and poverty."
But think they read this:
" if a child is born to a single mother it "AUTOMATICALLY" means the child is born into ignorance and poverty."
This happens with other themes as well. | |
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| Time for a showdown with the negative ones...
Posted: 7/21/2009 5:46:35 PM | What all of this got to do with me being sexy?
I find it all highly irrelevant.
I say let the little drug addict girls keep their kids.
I mean, someone has to raise future McDonald's workers. | |
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| Time for a showdown with the negative ones...
Posted: 7/21/2009 9:39:26 PM | Futureshock
itsallinthesoul, \why would you write this:
I wrote it because it is what I perceive about her. She is as PC as they come. Perhaps it is who she is/perhaps it is a show she puts on to be on the receiving end of kudos and virtual hi-fives...she does try hard to distance herself from the stereotype which is not a bad thing, I do it also. She is hoping and praying the father of her child one day marries her and doesn't want to give up that hope in spite of the fact that their child has been here a while and he hasn't proposed yet. Whether she wants to accept it or not, the chances he will propose marriage are getting smaller, not bigger as the days/months/years pass...
Soldier I find unique and funny in his delivery of what he has to say. Do I agree with everything he has to say? Nope but I sure do appreciate the analogies because of their subtlety.
bosox - You don't need me or anyone else to come to your defenses. You are a strong woman more than capable of taking care of defending yourself, aren't you? If I didn't think you could handle yourself, I would come to your defense but I do not think you need my help or anyone else's. Do you want me to defend you? If so, you need only ask and I will do so when I feel you are being unfairly attacked. Please don't mistake my silence for agreement that what someone is saying about you/your choices is accurate in my eyes. If I disagree with you personally, I always let you know. My silence when you say something you can take as a tacit agreement on my part (assuming I have actually read it) of what you are saying.
If you're still getting upset about the mistakes you've made, then you haven't really moved passed them and learned from them. It wouldn't be viewed as a "put down" if you agreed on the view and had grown from the mistakes you made.
Quite right but the assumption being that everyone who discusses something personal has moved passed what they are discussing....not always the case though. People can and often are at varying stages of recovery....salt in the wound not yet healed is not usually helpful especially when they respond emotionally and are put down for being so emotional..........it is too bad that some people don't realize an emotional response means they are hurting and try to extend a hand of support instead of further condemnation. People are very quick to assume that Person A hasn't learned the lesson instead of just asking them how they feel about what they have done...perhaps that is why Person A gets emotional. Person A often asks a simple question and gets their life and decision critiqued (off topic to the thread) without a response to the simple question asked.
Spider - Please give me the link to the thread you are referring to so I can read it again, then I will respond. I do know that at one point, I was more annoyed at Futureshock and what I perceived to be her personal mission to put down anyone who dared have a child out of wedlock... | |
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| Time for a showdown with the negative ones...
Posted: 7/21/2009 10:17:47 PM |
I wrote it because it is what I perceive about her. She is as PC as they come. Perhaps it is who she is/perhaps it is a show she puts on to be on the receiving end of kudos and virtual hi-fives...she does try hard to distance herself from the stereotype which is not a bad thing, I do it also.
I asked because it seemed like you were saying bosox kissed the butts of those who were antagonistic towards single mothers, yet in your very next post you kissed the butt of one of those people who has made
some derogatory comments about single mothers.
Also, virtual high fives? I must be missing those, or are they subliminal? I only see bosox defending herself against many attacks from posters. I am not trying to defend or antagonize anyone, I am merely confused and seeking clarification. | |
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| Time for a showdown with the negative ones...
Posted: 7/21/2009 10:29:14 PM |
I wrote it because it is what I perceive about her. She is as PC as they come. Perhaps it is who she is/perhaps it is a show she puts on to be on the receiving end of kudos and virtual hi-fives...she does try hard to distance herself from the stereotype which is not a bad thing, I do it also. She is hoping and praying the father of her child one day marries her and doesn't want to give up that hope in spite of the fact that their child has been here a while and he hasn't proposed yet. Whether she wants to accept it or not, the chances he will propose marriage are getting smaller, not bigger as the days/months/years pass...
I try to distance myself from the stereotype? Most of the things I've accomplished I did before even getting pregnant. I've put my life on hold for my child, for her, not to try to avoid being stereo-typed. I stay in a relationship with her dad because we love each other.
I am hoping and praying he will propose? Did it ever occur to you that I'm a big part of the reason we're not married? Did it ever occur to you he might have wanted to get married a long time ago, before I got pregnant, and I wasn't ready?
Just think about all the personal assumptions you just made about me. Now go find any that I've made about you. Actually, let me do it for you... oh yea. I said I thought you were a good parent. lol.
Soldier I find unique and funny in his delivery of what he has to say. Do I agree with everything he has to say? Nope but I sure do appreciate the analogies because of their subtlety.
It was my analogy about the poptarts. So I'm glad you thought it was funny.
bosox - You don't need me or anyone else to come to your defenses. You are a strong woman more than capable of taking care of defending yourself, aren't you? If I didn't think you could handle yourself, I would come to your defense but I do not think you need my help or anyone else's. Do you want me to defend you? If so, you need only ask and I will do so when I feel you are being unfairly attacked. Please don't mistake my silence for agreement that what someone is saying about you/your choices is accurate in my eyes. If I disagree with you personally, I always let you know. My silence when you say something you can take as a tacit agreement on my part (assuming I have actually read it) of what you are saying.
You don't feel I'm being personally attacked, though I've been called "a loser", "a hypocrite", "ignorant", "cruel", "vicious", "pathetic", "immature", "stupid", "unintelligent" - oh, and there's the assumption about how I obviously have no self-respect that you displayed above. I used to like you, because I thought you had integrity. I was so very wrong.
I don't mind anyone having an opinion about my actions or my views. Making assumptions and then attacking me for things that I don't believe and calling me names is ridiculous. I haven't called anyone a name, and the only posters I have addressed directly in a "negative" way attacked me. I don't even attack back, I just try to reason with them using logic. I didn't say I needed anyone to come to my defense, I was pointing out that you don't, when someone is actually being attacked. I also have plenty of posters and readers who send me private messages because they are afraid of being attacked for their opinions as well. Does that make you feel good? That people are afraid to share their opinions because you will unfairly target them until they feel bad about themselves for things that aren't even true? Sharing an opinion about a lifestyle choice or parenting method is not parallel to attacking someone's personal life with assumption and judgment. They also give me reasons they think that I am being attacked, and they are probably right.
When an opinion falls out of line with your actions, you blow up and get out of line, just like so many other posters here. The only thing you seem to be able to fall back on is to insult the person that doesn't agree with you. That would be the right time to use that silence bit you were talking about.
And talking not to you specifically, but to all of those that say that I "pretend to be intelligent", or that if I "really was intelligent", I wouldn't need to show it. Why is it okay to parade whatever you are proud of about yourself on your profile or to others, but it's not okay for someone who is beautiful to say so, someone who is incredibly intelligent to say so, or any other things that would make someone "conceited" to be proud of? | |
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| Time for a showdown with the negative ones...
Posted: 7/21/2009 11:34:12 PM | Can you ladies please stop fighting over me?
I'm afraid somebody may get hurt...
Actually I lied. I'm afraid I may get hurt.
Still I have an invitation for any of you ladies who A. are not a drug addicts, B. don't have 4 different kids by 4 different fathers, and C. are not fat.
Give your kids up for adoption, travel to WV, and be my love slave.
Then you don't have to invest so much emotion into the message boards anymore! No kid(s) = no arguments.
Don't lie to yourselves. You know you want to. In fact, I will even toss in a gift bag once you arrive. It will have a bag of doritos, some string cheese, and a can of Pepsi.
You seriously can't beat a deal like that.
If my inbox is not full of emails from takers by the time I get up from my nap, there truly is no God.
-8sf8 | |
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| Time for a showdown with the negative ones...
Posted: 7/21/2009 11:39:02 PM |
Still I have an invitation for any of you ladies who A. are not a drug addicts, B. don't have 4 different kids by 4 different fathers, and C. are not fat.
So are women with 3 children by 3 different fathers invited? | |
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| Time for a showdown with the negative ones...
Posted: 7/21/2009 11:49:02 PM |
Don't lie to yourselves. You know you want to. In fact, I will even toss in a gift bag once you arrive. It will have a bag of doritos, some string cheese, and a can of Pepsi.
krsh... Do ya'll have coke? What the hell is pepsi?! | |
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| Time for a showdown with the negative ones...
Posted: 7/21/2009 11:58:41 PM | | I haven't had a chance to really respond to much on this, so I'm just going to comment. Possibilities. Every decision contains them. There is, in truth, no "right" way to live life, no exact full proof plan, no greater, and no less of a person for living a life. That's why we live it... to learn what's best for each individual. The only "right" way to be is to live to the fullest of each person's potential. Trying to live are lives to be the best people we can be each day (I hope). I read a lot of comments and people have frustration over the mannerism of some presentations of messages. Everybody just wants to be treated with respect is what I've gotten out of this. Nobody wants a sweet tooth, but nobody wants salt thrown in their eyes either. This isn't about who is right or wrong, what's better or worse, who's smarter or isn't, who's life is complete or incomplete, and list can go on. It's about respect for one another. I can disagree with someone and still support them in a time of need. We all have been there at some point when someone has said something in a way that has offended us and didn't like it. EVERYBODY that has left comments is intelligent enough to know when something can be damaging to a person. We are individuals with different approaches to things, I'm not lacking sight of that. It's just hurtful and non productive sometimes. I do think we "rock" not just for being single parents... but for being parents. I'd like to recommend a song. It's a hip hop song so some of you may be turned off out of the gate, but it's really insightful and relays a message that I think anyone can appreciate. The group is called De La Soul and the name of the song is Trying People. Give it a spin and to anyone who cares to listen to it, let me know what you think and what you may have gotten out of it, if anything. | |
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| Time for a showdown with the negative ones...
Posted: 7/22/2009 12:15:53 AM |
I am hoping and praying he will propose? Did it ever occur to you that I'm a big part of the reason we're not married? Did it ever occur to you he might have wanted to get married a long time ago, before I got pregnant, and I wasn't ready?
You were the one who said you hoped to marry him someday and made it sound like you were ready so why would I assume otherwise? That is the impression I've gotten from what you've shared of your personal life. If that impression is wrong, it is good that you have clarified to correct an incorrect impression made.
I also have plenty of posters and readers who send me private messages because they are afraid of being attacked for their opinions as well. Does that make you feel good? That people are afraid to share their opinions because you will unfairly target them until they feel bad about themselves for things that aren't even true? Sharing an opinion about a lifestyle choice or parenting method is not parallel to attacking someone's personal life with assumption and judgment. They also give me reasons they think that I am being attacked, and they are probably right.
Yeah, well I get plenty of e-mail messages also...what is your point? Mine are from people who thank me for not being judgemental and sharing their personal story with me in private to get my feedback. Considering I seem to have the rep of being a bleeding heart on here ... lol... not sure how people are afraid that I "will unfairly target them until they feel bad about themselves for things that aren't even true". There are but two people on this board that I am well aware I've rubbed the wrong way...futureshock and NotElvis. Futureshock and I have reached a kind of truce with each other because we've taken time to get to know each other and have discussed our positions in private. NotElvis and I probably never will respect each other because personal accountability is a quality I require in people I consider friends and frankly, it is not a quality I've seen much evidence of in his posts.
Like you, I share my opinions. Some people take offense to my opinion, well isn't that the argument you make frequently? Don't ask if you don't want an honest response? Just because you don't like what someone says, doesn't mean they are wrong....etc...?
When an opinion falls out of line with your actions, you blow up and get out of line, just like so many other posters here. The only thing you seem to be able to fall back on is to insult the person that doesn't agree with you.
Hmmm...you mean I am human too?  Yeah, I admit I get annoyed and pissed sometimes with the way some people cling to their stereotypes and don't even want to see comments that do not support their stereotypes and I react negatively. I also get upset when I hear of children being physically hurt by their parent (s). I'm an advocate for the rights of children and that will not change ever.
I am as entitled to my opinion as you are. Contrary to what YOU and others may think, I don't need to validate my opinions to you or anyone else. They are mine and if I choose to alter my opinion, I will do it, not because YOU want me to but because I see value in the arguments or I experience in my own life something that makes me rethink my position on something.
I used to like you, because I thought you had integrity. I was so very wrong.
Was this supposed to hurt my feelings? I am just checking because I wouldn't want to jump to any assumptions....lol. Bosox, you are very entitled to think I have no integrity if you wish to. Your opinion of me matters so very little to me personally. I know I have integrity but I also know that I am human and make mistakes also.
Not that my opinion of you should matter to you, but it seems that it does since you are in a snit now. | |
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lol. Nah...I love you too! 
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