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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 6:08:35 PM | There are two issues in this forum on racism.
This one appears to be a brash indiviual who should have done what asked. The other one has some merit if the children have not been overly coached by adult forces.
Too often we let our temper get the better of us when we shouldn't. It looks like the professor should have done as asked and the police officers would have just gone about their business. According to the various articles the professor was antagonistic and uncooperative with the officers from the moment they met up. There are apparently some conflicting reports from neighbors. Apparently these neighbors were not there at the residence during the confrontation. Why are these reports even a part of the case.
Whatever our race, gender or age we all have in all probability had a run in with public servants. In all my run ins I have always been cordial and polite to ease the process. In this case this professor did not.
In reading this thread and articles concerning this case I some posters in this thread are misquoting articles and posters to fit what they want heard. I suggest that all interested read up on the incident and always read any previous posts referred to in a post. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 6:25:18 PM | http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/gates_incident_report_redacted.pdf
Here is the Police Report of the incident.
Does that read like the behavior of a reasonable man?
Harvard must be very proud of him.
What is even going to be more interesting is that Al Sharpton is now involved. Jesse Jackson can't be far behind. There are headlines and TV time to be had! | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 6:26:29 PM | ...Gates, who was wearing slacks and a polo shirt and carrying a cane...
Yes, we do know how he was dressed.
'without provocation'...
I haven't 'assumed' anything. I have posted various reports of what allegedly happened. I don't think I've even used the word 'racism' in this thread. Why do some 'assume' that those who post a variety of views are crying 'racism'?
After reading the report, I conclude that had the officer simply left after ascertaining that Gates was the resident, there would have been no arrest. Get in the car, put it in gear, and go. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 6:52:46 PM | Once again we have a group of people whining about nothing. I can't stand it. "We want free stuff! We want free stuff! We want free stuff!"
Stay tuned for the $ amount that the lawsuit will be for. You can bet it's a money-grab. I am sick of this crap.
Once again I will say it. To be treated like an equal, you must ACT like an equal. If you can't do that, I can't and WON'T respect you. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 7:01:08 PM | And still some will question the veracity of statements such as this...
... as if it couldn't have been that way?
I'm not saying it couldn't have been that way. But to suggest that a police officer not only lied but went through the hassle of filling out paper work with lies as opposed to some guy's friends backing him up because they're... oh, I don't know.... his friends.... which one seems like the more believable scenario?
Why is it that white people can't fathom that racism is alive and well in America??
I've got a better question. Why is it that a certain segment of the black population can't fathom that everything bad that ever happens to them isn't because of their race?
We've got people in this country that call racism on things as trivial as somebody messing up their order at McDonald's. Give me a fücking break. All that does is undermine the real racism that actually does exist.
Here is the Police Report of the incident.
Does that read like the behavior of a reasonable man?
As I began walking through the foyer toward the front door, I could hear Gates again demanding my name. I again told Gates that I would speak with him outside. My reason for wanting to leave the residence was that Gates was yelling very loud and the acoustics of the kitchen and foyer were making it difficult for me to transmit pertinent information to ECC or other responding units. His reply was, "ya, I'll speak with your mama outside."
Way to be a black stereotype. And this guy is in charge of an instute for African and African American research at Harvard?
I hope this asshòle loses his job. Someone this ridiculous does nothing but tarnish the prestigious reputation of Harvard. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 7:10:29 PM | I hope Harvard has the intestinal fortitude to terminate his employment if this description of his behavior turns out to be true.
His behavior is reprehensible, and if true, is racist. Harvard cannot condone or support such behavior by one of it's prominent faculty members.
You would think that someone that heads the Department of African and African American Studies at Harvard would be far more sensible and realistic about racism.
Gates has not only played the race card, he threw out the entire deck of 52. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 7:15:19 PM |
So simply because Gates is Black this is racism? I like this in it's pure genius as to how Blacks are manipulating the system.
There it is folks...
Gates, if he feels he had his Civil Rights violated, Is intitled to his day in Court...
Even more currious...every Black American gets drug into the fight.
Gates is excersizing his Constitutional Rights, and all Blacks are labled as manipulators. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 7:45:21 PM | http://www.wickedlocal.com/cambridge/news/x737378901/Harvard-professor-Charles-Ogletree-releases-statement-on-behalf-of-Henry-Louis-Gates
This is the statement that Dr. Gates's attorney has posted.
There are some obvious differences between the police report and Dr. Gates's account of what happened. I have no doubt that Dr. Gates was startled and upset by having the police show up at his home, and I have no doubt that Dr. Gates raised his voice. What is not clear, is a valid reason for placing him under arrest.
My guess is that this will be dismissed. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 7:50:18 PM | I like this in it's pure genius as to how Blacks are manipulating the system.
Actually its a case of how people will use anything they can to call foul play when it isnt. Its a case of how people will try and blame others for their actions. Why ??
The reasons are as varied as there are stars in the sky. Some do it for money, a bit of fame, pity, payback, revenge, and the list goes on.People have been using gender, race, age, religion and etc in the last several decades so often that the courts and honest people are turning a deaf ear to the truthful causes. The cases that are/were truly a problem of racism, gender, religion or ??? After calling wolf just one too many times, eventually people dont listen any more.
In this case Gates used his race, which means its goimg to create problems on down the line for other African Americans. Especially for African Americans that might have a very similar suit that turns out to have true racist implecations. In this case it is quite apparent that Gates lost his temper for what ever reason and went off on two police officers. Instead of getting told what a good boy he is he gets cuffed and told to calm it down.
Now he is outraged. I'm sorry I would be outraged if the officers did not ask for id. (How often if impersonation used as part of a crime).
How many of you use credit cards when you shop. How many times do you get asked for ID. It should be everytime, but its more like 1 out of 5 or so. (Proabably because many of you scream about it. I thank the cashier each time.)
Guys quit fighting a system that is trying to protect you, and be glad that some are willing to go that extra mile to protect you. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 8:02:04 PM | i wasnt there...........and this is the first i heard of it.....but i bet i know exactly what happened
someone called 911.someones breaking into a house.described said person
police arrive........upon investigateing.they discover the suspect and question him
suspect becomes irate because the police are in his house..........accuses them of raceism and refuses to identify himself
police tell him to identify himself again.....proubly several times....suspect refuses.becomming more and more upset
police finally tell suspect......ok.....have it your way....your under arrest
suspect finally produces id as the handcuffs come out
police say "too late".....tell it to the judge
one thing people must remember......once a police officer says the words."your uder arrest".........dont matter if your cuffed or not...........as of that moment...your arrested
anyone wanna bet that not pretty close.if not exactly what happened? | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 8:19:32 PM |
I like this in it's pure genius as to how Blacks are manipulating the system.
My bad I was typing too fast. It should have said some or many.
Sorry if that caused any confusion.......
This is the statement that Dr. Gates's attorney has posted.
There are some obvious differences between the police report and Dr. Gates's account of what happened. I have no doubt that Dr. Gates was startled and upset by having the police show up at his home, and I have no doubt that Dr. Gates raised his voice. What is not clear, is a valid reason for placing him under arrest.
That statement is laughable in the disparity between that and the police report. It sure sounds completely fabricated and fanciful
Again, I will ask, what was the Police Officers motivation.
Unfortunately, I too believe the charges will be dismissed. But they won't be dismissed for the right reasons. They will be dismissed because Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson will pressure the police department to drop the charges. The charges will be dropped in return for Gates agreeing not to press charges against the department.
It's sad that the department will be forced to do the wrong thing. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 8:23:34 PM |
Anyone but me find this lawyer's statement a bit fanciful?
Look out, we've got another Johnny Cochran.
"If he lives there, the arrest is unfair!" | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 8:49:21 PM | Reading the lawyer's statement... It would have to be racial.... Because he did nothing but accommodate the police... and it was the police who did not give his name and badge number.
But, it really makes no sense the way the lawyer laid it out. If that was how the professor was acting.... accommodating.... why would he want the guys name and badge number? Rather than thanking him for responding so quickly when someone was thought of breaking in.
You really don't know what happened... you have the police report, and his lawyers statement... They both contradict each other. The one got turned around in a way that he kept asking the cops name? Sounds fishy...
Or the cop turned it around saying he kept asking him his name... when the guy was asking him his.... ?
Just based on human nature.... a person... any race... Someone could have been tired from a trip, maybe already angry about his door being jammed and went off on police only because he was having a bad time....
If he didn't comply... called them any names... and was not cooperating when it came to learn if he really belonged there or not... Anyone would have gotten themselves arrested. Just because a cop wants to know if you belong there... doesn't mean he thinks you don't... It is his job to make sure.
Just because he was Black, even if he thought it was because of race, and calling the police a racist was not smart on his part. If this is what happened?
Why couldn't he have realized they were actually doing him good. What if it was a burglary? and the guy didn't give his name... and the cops let him walk.
He didn't get arrested for burglary... he finally showed his ID... But it is possible if he got angry and didn't comply, that they would arrest anyone for disturbing the peace. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 9:06:21 PM |
Gates began calling the officer a racist and said repeatedly, "This is what happens to black men in America."
This, Optimistically Cynical, is called "playing the race card."
Gates was hoping that by accusing the officers of racism they might back off. Fortunately, the officers said, "Homie don't play dat." | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/20/2009 9:09:36 PM | | well he might have brains and be a professor but that doesn't mean he's got common sense. the two don't necessarily go hand in hand. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 10:14:31 AM |
Prosecutors dropped a disorderly conduct charge Tuesday against prominent black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr., who was arrested at his home near Harvard University after a report of a break-in. ...
Officers responded to the home Gates rents from Harvard after a woman reported seeing two black men trying to force open the front door. Gates' lawyer, fellow Harvard scholar Charles Ogletree, said the professor had returned from a trip overseas, found his front-door jammed and had to force it open.
Police said the 58-year-old Gates was arrested after he yelled at an officer, accused him of racial bias and refused to calm down after the officer demanded Gates show him identification to prove he lived in the home.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D99IUL981&show_article=1
Here are details I didn't see earlier - this report says a witness saw not just one, but TWO males trying to break into the front door. What happened to the other guy? Was this the "friend" who later claimed to tell the real story?
Another "small detail" where I would also have detained him - the house belongs to Harvard, not to Gates, so his name wouldn't appear on any of the property records, etc. showing that he owned the home, or even that he lived there, save for paperwork that he should have produced right up front.
If I got your ID from you and ran the house address through tax records, if you were the true owner of the house, it would be quite obvious. If the owner's name and your name don't match - then we have a problem. Do we just let you remain in the house without further proof you have the legal right to do so? If we do that, and the true owner comes home and gets killed - then police stand the rap. Identifying YOU is one step. Confirming whether or not you actually have the right to remain there is quite another - so of course further questions will have been asked once we confirmed who you were.
I've run into these intellectual types before and they couldn't see the forest for the trees, so usually also ended up getting cuffed while they tested their half-baked academic theories out in the real world. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 10:24:01 AM |
Didnt the article say he was trying to get to His house...Is it illegal to break-into your own house?
How did the police know it was his house if he wasn't answering any of their questions. Had he answered simply questions they probably would have done what they could to assist him in getting back into his house. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 10:36:05 AM | First of all it was not an oversight. The fact that he eventually showed his identification was not germane to the discussion. He originally refused to show identification and called the police racist. I quoted the highlights of the article and posted the link to the rest. I did not see the need to quote it all.
Of course it's relevant to the discussion. It just didn't support your position. Big difference.
So the Officers should have just taken gates word that he lived there? No. I guess it's not germane to the discussion that he did show his id while in his house, eh?
Again, I will ask, why are you so quick to assume that this is racism? Why look for racism when it may not be there? That doesn't make sense. "Why look for something when it MAY not be there?" What a silly thing to say. The answer should be obvious.
What you seem to be doing is trying to control a discussion and force opinions based on only information that you provide, which turns out to be a very narrow slice of a situation AND more importantly a very narrow slice of life and experience. Racism is a very complex thing... trying to contain a discussion to half of one incident is manipulative and a waste of time. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 10:36:16 AM | I think it's racism, frankly. And stupidity on his part, and on the part of the cops. I just don't think that if *I* were breaking into MY house, cops would give me any grief.
I also wonder at this "preeminent African American scholar's" judgement. I am certain he was pissed, already irked because he locked himself out of this house, then the cops come up and hassle him. Then, he's a PROFESSOR at HARVARD so he ALREADY has this messiah complex, I am certain of it. I am sure he gave them lip, and they retaliated back, and then it got blown out of proportion because both sides acted like immature children.
On the other hand, though, I find it odd--an almost 60-yr-old nicely dressed black man in a fancy neighborhood is hardly the "profile" of a criminal.
On the OTHER other hand, though--if his house had been broken into and cops had NOT responded, would he then blame them for not watching his house? | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 10:59:57 AM |
Come on, you are smarter than that lame response. come on, youre smarter than this lame thread.
I disagree | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 11:00:39 AM | | I am a Canadian and let me tell you that racial profiling is alive and well. I (am white) and was a punk for many years and guess how many times I got stopped by the cops... 1 time. My friend, who is brown has been stopped dozens upon dozens of times. Both of us tend to walk around at all hours looking conspicuous. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 11:07:44 AM | On the OTHER other hand, though--if his house had been broken into and cops had NOT responded, would he then blame them for not watching his house?
Of course --- they werent watching his house because he is black RIGHT?
Its a catch 22... | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 11:13:26 AM | It was definitely racism on the part of the police.
The fact is that Gates had already gotten into the house BEFORE he started working on the front door.
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE56K47G20090721
<div class="quote">Ogletree, a Harvard Law professor, said Gates entered through the rear door and his driver carried in his luggage. Ogletree said Gates showed his Harvard identification and driver's license to a policeman who arrived at his home. Gates asked the policeman for his name and badge number. The police officer walked away and when Gates followed him to the porch, he was arrested, Ogletree's statement said.
Gates, and his driver, had already entered the premises from the back (and unloaded the luggage) before he tried to open the front door. All the police had to do was knock on the door, and the driver would have answered and affirmed that Gates lived there.
Plus, seeing as how everyone here knows who he is, it seems odd that the racist police from his town didn't know who he was.
And the police have dismissed their case, which proves that Gates did nothing wrong. Of course the racists will claim that Gates did something wrong, but they won't be able to provide any evidence for it. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 11:26:02 AM | Plus, seeing as how everyone here knows who he is, it seems odd that the racist police from his town didn't know who he was.
I have lived and live in some very small towns. Do I know all the people on the police force NO. Do they know who I am, even though I have probably taught their child/ren at one time or another? Probably not!!!!
And the police have dismissed their case, which proves that Gates did nothing wrong
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Probably the department has better things to do and have decided not to add to the professor's 10 mins of media fame. | |
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