| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 6:51:27 PM | quote [The news was parsed and Tweeted, rued and debated. This was, after all Henry "Skip" Gates: Summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa graduate of Yale. MacArthur "genius grant" recipient. Acclaimed historian, Harvard professor and PBS documentarian. One of Time magazine's "25 Most Influential Americans" in 1997. Holder of 50 honorary degrees.
If this man can be taken away by police officers from the porch of his own home, what does it say about the treatment that average blacks can expect in 2009] quote
as per the picture on yahoo there clearly is a black officer in the piture, im sure if there were any racial remarks made that officer would have stepped up. race had nothing to do with an officer responding to a call, race had nothing to do with asking for ID, race became an issue when Gates made it....what does it say about blacks in 2009? straighten up and stop acting like the world owes you something and not working to resolve the issues like real humans. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 7:00:57 PM | as per the picture on yahoo there clearly is a black officer in the piture, im sure if there were any racial remarks made that officer would have stepped up. race had nothing to do with an officer responding to a call, race had nothing to do with asking for ID, race became an issue when Gates made it....what does it say about blacks in 2009? straighten up and stop acting like the world owes you something and not working to resolve the issues like real humans. This is a perfect example of the lunacy of assumptions going on around here. All of a sudden the presence of this unidentified black officer completely obliterates the POSSIBILITY of racism playing any part in the incident (except of course for the professor's unwarranted assertion of such.)
Openwatercaptn, either you are shockingly naive or you assume that others on this thread are. Either way... yikes.
Addition: I cannot keep myself from pointing out that one of openwatercaptn's photos includes a makeshift confederate flag in the background... taken at his "buddy's house." I realize that this addition can be perceived as hypocritical on my part... making assumptions about photos and all. Then again the AP photos accompanying the article don't have words across them ("confederate" or otherwise.) So I find it worth the pending accusations of hypocrisy to point out the flag. I reiterate: YIKES.
Referencing two posts down: Actually, the "naive" are those who read second hand reports and automatically assume ANYTHING. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 7:05:44 PM |
as per the picture on yahoo there clearly is a black officer in the piture, im sure if there were any racial remarks made that officer would have stepped up. race had nothing to do with an officer responding to a call, race had nothing to do with asking for ID, race became an issue when Gates made it....what does it say about blacks in 2009? straighten up and stop acting like the world owes you something and not working to resolve the issues like real humans.
How many people on this thread have actually read Dr. Gates's works?
Some of the judgments posted against him are simply staggeringly ignorant.
No one claimed that any 'racial remarks' were made--there was no need for ANY officer to 'step up'.
This incident is ONE man, not an entire population--what it says about "...blacks in 2009..." is exactly NOTHING. This is a situation that involved ONE citizen and a police officer.
Stop acting like the entire Black population has to take on the actions of ONE man--who happens to be Black--even if he accused the officer of being racist. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 7:08:09 PM | | naive? no...i throw out the judement card every so often, but you know what, i keep my cool...the naive are those who read second hand reports and automatically assume the proffesor is completely innocent and didnt raise his voice and fully complied to the officer. and to the black officer statement, i know plenty who even in the south will rally with gates if there had been true racial comments. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 7:37:41 PM |
the naive are those who read second hand reports and automatically assume the proffesor is completely innocent and didnt raise his voice and fully complied to the officer.
Of course Gates is innocent of any criminal behaviour in the incident.
Has anyone suggested that he didn't raise his voice or that he wasn't initially resistant to providing ID while being confronted in his own home?
Let's assume that he was obnoxious and ignorant to the officer. SO WHAT! Last time I checked this was not a criminal offence.
Once his ID was established, the incident was over with respect to the officer's duty regardless of how obnoxious and ignorant Gates' comments may have been.
If you want to get right down to it, it seems to me he was expressing the rights to which virtually every American likes to feel they have (especially conservative white folks); his right to express himself freely and the sanctity of his own home from the intrusions of gov't authority.
And still he was arrested for no better reason than obnoxious and ignorant comments. This is clearly an abuse of authority and indicative of an institutional problem within the police force involved. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 7:46:07 PM | How many people on this thread have actually read Dr. Gates's works?
Some of the judgments posted against him are simply staggeringly ignorant.
In this instance his works have nothing to do with what happened.
Hey Mel Gibson is a great star and movie producer, but that didnt excuse his tirade to police a few years back.
In this instance Gates probably expected the officers to know him or his name to make a difference and that might have been what ticked him off more. The officers didnt know him or of him.
Telling the officers that they didnt know who they were messing with---Actually that is considered a bit of a threat by some.
Then calling them names ---
Gates had just got back from a Very Long trip, he was probably very tired, frustrated, and didnt need somebody at his door asking him what he considered silly questions. Hey I understand in a way where he was coming from, but that doesnt excuse his behavior. When he then used the Race card to try and excuse himself that hurt him and all the others who actually have had problems.
If you want to get right down to it, it seems to me he was expressing the rights to which virtually every American likes to feel they have (especially conservative white folks); his right to express himself freely and the sanctity of his own home from the intrusions of gov't authority.
We probably wouldnt even be talking about this if it was a white guy. Probably wouldnt even be talking about it if it was a white guy with black police officers. The white guy would have had the same consequences probably for his aggressiveness and uncooperative behavior...Cooling his heels off in the police car or cell.
The point is that ----- Too many people use the Bigot/ Race card as a "Get out of Jail Free Card" | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 9:09:41 PM |
In this instance his works have nothing to do with what happened.
I neither stated nor implied that Gates's works had anything to do with his arrest. I asked if anyone had read his works because of some of the comments posted about him.
The point is that ----- Too many people use the Bigot/ Race card as a "Get out of Jail Free Card"
Gates hadn't done anything to go to jail, which was made obvious when the charges were dropped. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 9:30:34 PM |
The point is that ----- Too many people use the Bigot/ Race card as a "Get out of Jail Free Card"
He did not need a "Get out of Jail Free Card". I'll repeat this because it seems to be overlooked
Let's assume that he was obnoxious and ignorant to the officer. SO WHAT! Last time I checked this was not a criminal offence.
Once his ID was established, the incident was over with respect to the officer's duty regardless of how obnoxious and ignorant Gates' comments may have been.
What is the purpose in labeling it a "Get out of Jail Free Card" when he should not have been arrested at all. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 9:52:52 PM | Four pages into this thread and no one has been able to point out one thing that was racist in this incident. And yet despite this so many are still willing to call it a racist incident.
I will ask again, where is there any factually backed racism in this incident? | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 10:03:30 PM | For you that feel this was a racist incident I pray that you never have an intruder in your home. These officers did what they were trained to do and called to do. The officers were making sure that the person within the home truly belonged. Just the saying of his name doesnt mean a thing, for an intruder could have had that infor.
If we end up with laws that prevent police officers from performing as they did in this incident, the repercussions will be horrid. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 10:52:33 PM | | optimistically, i'm with you on this one.black man acts belligerantly,refuses to identify himself and makes a threatening comment. yet it's the white cop that's a racist. black men can see the white mouse of racism with the visual acuity of a microscope, yet can't see the 800 lb gorilla of black racism. enough race cards are thrown about annually to fill the grand canyon,yet blacks get away with it. black men can beat white men to death and not a peep out of the media, but any perceived slight to a black man is front page news. if a white man acted like that to a couple cops he would have been arrested too. but he would have been prosecuted and found guilty. there would be no outrage from the media even if both cops were black. it's sad that so few blacks with authority demand better behavior from blacks, and the few that do are castigated by the black community. black men kill at a rate of 8-10 times as often as their white counterparts yet it's always racist to point this out. this stupidity will continue as long as blacks can cry racism and get away with bad behavior. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 11:06:11 PM |
optimistically, i'm with you on this one.black man acts belligerantly,refuses to identify himself and makes a threatening comment. yet it's the white cop that's a racist. black men can see the white mouse of racism with the visual acuity of a microscope, yet can't see the 800 lb gorilla of black racism. enough race cards are thrown about annually to fill the grand canyon,yet blacks get away with it. black men can beat white men to death and not a peep out of the media, but any perceived slight to a black man is front page news. if a white man acted like that to a couple cops he would have been arrested too. but he would have been prosecuted and found guilty. there would be no outrage from the media even if both cops were black. it's sad that so few blacks with authority demand better behavior from blacks, and the few that do are castigated by the black community. black men kill at a rate of 8-10 times as often as their white counterparts yet it's always racist to point this out. this stupidity will continue as long as blacks can cry racism and get away with bad behavior.
So much tripe...so little time...so off-topic...
This thread is about Henry Louis Gates, Jr., not about the Black population--ONE man. Interesting that some have to bring the entire Black population into an incident concerning ONE Black man. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 11:30:47 PM | I will ask again, where is there any factually backed racism in this incident?
From the news reports and internet it looks like many on here are right. Gates misused the Race Card. The police were doing therir job.
if a white man acted like that to a couple cops he would have been arrested too. but he would have been prosecuted and found guilty. there would be no outrage from the media even if both cops were black.
Right again a White man would have been arrested. If the white man had been slanderous and uncooperative to black cops, this would have the black community in arms against another racist white man. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/21/2009 11:34:26 PM |
He did not need a "Get out of Jail Free Card". I'll repeat this because it seems to be overlooked
Let's assume that he was obnoxious and ignorant to the officer. SO WHAT! Last time I checked this was not a criminal offence.
It certainly can be:
From FindLaw.com
Almost every state has a disorderly conduct law that makes it a crime to be drunk in public, to "disturb the peace", or to loiter in certain areas. Many types of obnoxious or unruly conduct may fit the definition of disorderly conduct, as such statutes are often used as "catch-all" crimes. Police may use a disorderly conduct charge to keep the peace when a person is behaving in a disruptive manner, but presents no serious public danger.
I've seen people arrested for less than this professor. Doesn't make it right, but it is up to the perception of the officer making the arrest. Coming from a family heavy in law enforcement, I do know if an officer makes too many bad judgement calls, he will be dealt with by his superiors. But there are good cops out there. And sometimes even the best might have an off day, they are human. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/22/2009 3:39:28 AM |
"What? Black men in America get drivers who carry their luggage?"
Black folk are constantly berated for not being in the "MainStream" ...not "Educating" themselves.
Now we have an Educated, suscessful Black man , and he's downed for having a "Driver"... | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/22/2009 5:17:56 AM | More facts have been reported by Joe Scarborough (well known member of the liberal media)
It turns out the Gates was INSIDE the house when the cop arrived. It was the driver who was trying to get the front door open. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/22/2009 5:34:05 AM | You don't have to go looking for it.
It is every where inAmerica. Take off your blinders.
If I hear "The civil war is over" one more time I will puke.
There was nothing civil about it. It was the war between the states and there is a constant battle for non whites still.
Wake up as another color in the morning and go about your business for about a week. You will believe me only then and since that won't happen, well. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/22/2009 6:41:15 AM |
Almost every state has a disorderly conduct law that makes it a crime to be drunk in public, to "disturb the peace", or to loiter in certain areas. Many types of obnoxious or unruly conduct may fit the definition of disorderly conduct, as such statutes are often used as "catch-all" crimes. Police may use a disorderly conduct charge to keep the peace when a person is behaving in a disruptive manner, but presents no serious public danger.
I've seen people arrested for less than this professor. Doesn't make it right, but it is up to the perception of the officer making the arrest. Coming from a family heavy in law enforcement, I do know if an officer makes too many bad judgement calls, he will be dealt with by his superiors. But there are good cops out there. And sometimes even the best might have an off day, they are human.
Let's see:
1) Since this charge was rapidly dismissed, it's clear that this officer made an extremely poor judgment call in this matter. Officer are also allowed to CITE people for disturbing the peace. Why wasn't this done rather than arresting Professor Gates?
If nothing else,dismissing a citation would have been less humiliating to the police force than having an arrest declared invalid.
2) Most cops are NOT "the best." Police are drawn from the society they serve making most of them average to below average. The "best" police officers are rarely encountered by the public as they are usually in leadership positions or positions away from the public eye.
3) Where's your evidence that the police efficiently or effectively "police' themselves?
It's an open secret that most criminal organizations of any size have at least one or more police officers on their "payrolls." It's also a well-known fact that corruption is endemic in most American cities.
Since we rarely hear about the police arresting fellow officers and since the police departments rarely broadcast how they have disciplined wayward officers,it wouldn't be too much of an assumption to believe that the police address corruption only when forced to by the media or law enforcement agencies.
Professor Gates was lucky.
If he weren't famous and connected it's likely he would been assaulted as well as arrested and the public would have never heard a word about it.
I guess getting to a point where unfounded charges ARE dropped against RICH Black Americans is progress.
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/22/2009 9:13:01 AM |
It turns out the Gates was INSIDE the house when the cop arrived. It was the driver who was trying to get the front door open.
Thank you for this little nugget of information. However, you have once again misstated the facts and pointed out something that is of no consequence to the incident nor the associated cries of racism.
Yes, Gates was inside of the house when the Police arrived. However, the Citizen in the neighborhood that called the Police reported TWO Black men attempting to break into the house. Both Gates and the Driver originally went to the front door and were unable to do so. Gates then went to the back door and entered the house.
The Police were called because two Black men were seen attempting to break INTO the house. So the fact that gates was inside only provided impetus for them to investigate and identify the man inside the house.
You still have not provided any evidence that this was in any way, shape or form racist. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/22/2009 9:19:49 AM |
Black folk are constantly berated for not being in the "MainStream" ...not "Educating" themselves.
How do you know this is happening to black folks? You claim not to read newspapers. Besides, you're one black man, why do you think you're qualified to speak for all other black people? | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/22/2009 9:23:37 AM | Yes, Gates was inside of the house when the Police arrived. However, the Citizen in the neighborhood that called the Police reported TWO Black men attempting to break into the house.
Let's be careful with the admonitions about misstating facts.
The neighbor who called to police reported what she THOUGHT was a POSSIBLE break-in. Semantics--fascinating.
The fact that Gates was INSIDE his home when the police arrived might be inconsequential to others--to me, the fact that Dr. Gates was inside his house and on the phone to his security company while the police were there was very important.
As I stated earlier, I haven't declared this situation to be one of racism--I do wonder why some posters continue to demand evidence that it was racist.
Dr. Gates clearly felt it was racism--the onus was/is on him to prove it. The charges against him were dismissed--I haven't read anything today regarding his assertion that the incident was race-based.
How do you know this is happening to black folks? You claim not to read newspapers. Besides, you're one black man, why do you think you're qualified to speak for all other black people?
He has the same 'qualifications' as those who freely express their hatred/distrust/loathing of an entire population of people. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/22/2009 9:33:18 AM |
He has the same 'qualifications' as those who freely express their hatred/distrust/loathing of an entire population of people.
geeleebee, butt out on that post! That wasn't meant for you, it was meant for the person I aimed it toward. It's a comment that only he would understand, as he has a history of making similiar comments to others.
So next time, if a question isn't directed toward you, mind your own business. Sound cool? | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/22/2009 9:45:42 AM | The Police were called because two Black men were seen attempting to break INTO the house. So the fact that gates was inside only provided impetus for them to investigate and identify the man inside the house.
The people inside of the house could have been robbers, kinnappers, murders or who knows what. This looks like what the police officers where trying to determine.
Just because someone says they are who they are does not mean they are. The police officers were looking for positive ID. If two people, black or white, apparently broke into a house and the police just walked away after they said they belonged, the homeowne would be furious, especially if the people did not belong.
Just because the person happened to be black does not make it a racist incident.
The police officers were doing their job as trained. The officers needed positive id on the person standing in front of them black or white.
Because the person verbally attacked and threaten the officers the incident escalated. It was not a racist issue until Gates escalated the issue with racial innuendos. Gates made it a Racist issue. I suspect Gates made it a racial issue to excuse his actions.
If this had been a white person throwing verbal innuendos at officers of the law, he would have been arested. I seriously doubt that we would be reading about it.
Again I say Gates made this a Racial Issue, Not the Officers. | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/22/2009 10:52:37 AM |
You still have not provided any evidence that this was in any way, shape or form racist.
Maybe when Professor Gates his day in Court he will enlightend me, you, the Cambridge Police department and Officers, and America what Racism is ...What words spoken and Actions taken moved him to say Racism... | |
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| Racism........... Really?
Posted: 7/22/2009 11:07:03 AM |
Maybe when Professor Gates his day in Court he will enlighten me, you, the Cambridge Police department and Officers, and America what Racism is ...What words spoken and Actions taken moved him to say Racism...
Thank you, SAguy. Finally a voice of reason amongst the Liberals.
My contention all along is that from the facts/reports made so far no one can say that this is a racist act.
I doubt there will be a day in court as I suspect the promise of no litigation was part of the deal to drop the Disorderly Conduct charges.
To this point it has been nothing but speculation to call this a racist act. And quite frankly, it is a huge disservice to those that have and continue to suffer from verifiable racist acts. | |
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