Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 126 | |
| question: why do jehova's witness's seem to be so pushy not judging just a question
Posted: 9/12/2005 7:30:35 PM | Poet: Regarding the Institute of Religious Research: http://www.irr.org/English-JW/jwfacten.html By the time I got halfway down the page, I was laughing so hard, I couldn't finish.
In spite of his lack of formal training in theology or biblical languages, Russell claimed to be the only one with the truth, and he vigorously condemned all other Christian religions. As a result, ministers of various denominations began exposing Russell's false teachings and questionable character. Did you know that Pastor Russell was a respected Christian Zionist, often invited to speak before orthodox Jewish groups? In addition, his views on Zionism have been hailed by the likes of former Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, and former United Nations Ambassador, Jeane Kirkpatrick.
Rev. J. J. Ross published a pamphlet that exposed Russell's false claims and doctrines. He revealed that Russell "never attended the higher schools of learning; knows comparatively nothing of philosophy, systematic or historical theology; and is totally ignorant of the [biblical] languages [i.e. Hebrew and Greek]" Russell knew four languages. Greek, English, Spanish, and Hebrew. The allegations have been proven false years ago.
I could go on all day with this site...it is so blatantly wrong, lol.
Go here: It's an educational site by people who are not JW's nor ever have been. They did study the religion explicitly...http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/adrianbiblestudents/russell.html | |
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g2theq
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Joined: 5/26/2005
Msg: 127 | |
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| question: why do jehova's witness's seem to be so pushy not judging just a question
Posted: 9/13/2005 6:15:34 AM | "Poet: Regarding the Institute of Religious Research: http://www.irr.org/English-JW/jwfacten.html By the time I got halfway down the page, I was laughing so hard, I couldn't finish."
Have you ever stopped to think that he truth and the 'Truth' can have very strange effects on people? Maybe this is born out of indoctrinations and given perspectives. | |
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| question: why do jehova's witness's seem to be so pushy not judging just a question
Posted: 9/13/2005 11:49:55 AM | --------Just some of the erroneous teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses:
Doctrinal Beliefs
When an organization like the WTB&TS claims to be the only true religion and the sole source of correct Bible teaching, we must carefully examine its beliefs. If its doctrines are true, they will be found in the Bible, and its teachings will be consistent and unchanging year after year. Jehovah's Witnesses, however, deny or twist many of the Bible's basic teachings, and their beliefs conflict with those held by orthodox Christians down through the centuries. Consider the following comparisons.
The Nature of God. The Bible teaches that there is only one true God (Isa. 43:10-11; 44:6,8). Father, Son and Holy Spirit are identified as distinct Persons within the one Triune Godhead (Matt. 3:16-17; 2 Cor. 13:14). Throughout the New Testament the Son and the Holy Spirit, as well as the Father are separately identified as God. The attributes and prerogatives of Deity are ascribed to each (Son: Mark 2:5-12; John 20:28; Heb. 1:8; Holy Spirit: Acts 5:3-4; 2 Cor. 3:17-18).
By contrast, the WTB&TS denies the triune nature of God and teaches that such a belief is inspired by Satan.14 It teaches that Jehovah, the name of the one true God, corresponds only to God the Father. The Society also denies that Jesus is God (see next point). They deny the Holy Spirit is a person, and instead teach he is merely God's active force, analogous to electricity.15
Jesus Christ. The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh, and is the Creator of all things (John 1:1-3, 14; Col. 1:16). While never less than God, at the appointed time He laid aside the glory He shared with the Father and took on a human nature (John 17:3-5; Phil. 2:6-11; Col. 2:9). Following his death, Jesus Christ rose bodily from the grave, appeared to and was recognized in his body by over 500 people. This fact was crucial to both the preaching and faith of the early church (Luke 24:39; John 2:19-21; 1 Cor. 15:6, 14).
By contrast, the WTB&TS denies the deity of Jesus Christ and teaches that Jesus is a created being. He first existed as Michael the archangel then later was born as a perfect man. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that after Jesus was buried, God disposed of his physical body. Jesus was raised a spirit creature and "materialized" a fleshly body to make himself visible. Now in heaven he is again known as Michael the archangel.16
Salvation. The Bible teaches that the atoning work of Christ alone provides the solution for man's sin problem. Jesus Christ took the personal sins of all men — past, present and future — in his own body on the tree (1 Pet. 2:24), and as perfect God and perfect man he fully met the demands of Divine justice for us (Rom. 3:22-26). Therefore, any and all who receive him by simple faith (John 1:12; Acts 16:31), can be forgiven, declared righteous and restored to fellowship with God (2 Cor. 5:21; Heb. 7:24-26).
By contrast, the WTB&TS teaches that only an elite group of Witnesses, known as "the 144,000," or the "anointed ones" are presently credited with Christ's righteousness. Only the 144,000 are born again and expect to reign with Christ in heaven. For the vast majority of remaining Jehovah's Witnesses, known as the "other sheep" or the "great crowd," the atoning sacrifice of Christ only provides a chance at eternal life on earth.17
----------For more info about this go to irr.org | |
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| question: why do jehova's witness's seem to be so pushy not judging just a question
Posted: 9/13/2005 11:55:08 AM | Witnesses-actually WatchTower Witnesses, not Jehovahs' Witnesses-are trying to earn their way into a higher place in the coming Kingdom...which they can do by: winning enough converts, selling enough books, etc. If you want to get rid of them, ask them to get out their NWT Bibles, and look up:
Isaiah 43:11 which proves that the ONLY savior is Jehovah
and:
2 Peter 1:11 which proves that Jesus is the Savior.
Then, use logic to show the Witnesses that since Jesus is the savior, and the only savior is Jehovah, Jesus has to be Jehovah. Refuse to accept any wishy-washy dodging. Tell the Witnesses you will discuss nothing further with them, until they admit that Jesus is Jehovah. The Witnesses will shun you like you were a radioactive bird turd full of AIDS viruses. | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 132 | |
| question: why do jehova's witness's seem to be so pushy not judging just a question
Posted: 9/13/2005 4:26:03 PM | Oh wow, I never saw that before...lol. (yeah right)
Have you read the surrounding text? Or just what you wanted to see?
Do you really think that your argument is going to discredit an entire religion?
This argument has some fairly elementary rebuttals. Read the surrounding scriptures.
I'm no longer going to refute anything anyone has to say about the JWs, bash the crap out of them all you want, that's not even the purpose of this thread.
The original pupose of this thread was to explain certain perspectives about the faith, not defend it.
If you have a serious question; I'll be happy to answer it.
If you're just going to throw stones, throw them at the child molesting, idol worshipping, hypocritical, gold-digging, tax-sheltered priests of the Catholic religion. At least the Catholics have members here who will defend themselves.
None of your arguments have any real merit. Are there any JWs on here? NO. Can they represent themselves? NO
Why not pick on the Amish? They think electricity is evil...isn't that easier to attack? Oh wait...they don't knock on your door. Ever. | |
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| question: why do jehova's witness's seem to be so pushy not judging just a question
Posted: 9/14/2005 11:29:06 AM | Hey Garf and skypoet....a lotta ignorance in the world. People making comments without knowing the true facts. You two know what you are talking about because you have seen it firsthand and so have I.
There's good and bad in all religions. The child molestation is a new one on me though and my family have been involved for many many years. To be honest, I have turned my back on this religion but I know there are some good people in it. I just think the doctrines are misguided. But then I don't think any organised religion is good. | |
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| question: why do jehova's witness's seem to be so pushy not judging just a question
Posted: 9/16/2005 11:35:47 AM | Do you really think that your argument is going to discredit an entire religion? -----(quote from Garf)
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I don't have to--JW has been discredited for 100 years already, just a lot of people don't know because they disguise their heresy by purporting to be Biblical and quoting a lot of Bible.
Mee Krob | |
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| question: why do jehova's witness's seem to be so pushy not judging just a question
Posted: 9/20/2005 9:48:09 AM | my grandmother in the 3o's grabbed their phonograph once and tossed it off her porch. Jehovah's Witness is an occult religion and god tells us to stir clear of all occults. they claim to be the 144,ooo...but that can't be true. because, the 144,ooo are all males, all jewish and all of them will be, virgins. the real 144,ooo are sealed of god and they wont riase up until the tribulation period. since it's hard to find a virgin these days......most of the 144,ooo will be very young probably. i don't deal with any of the j.w.'s anymore myself. all we can do is pray for them.
i have a sign on my front lawn that reads, ''jesus christ is the lord'' the j.w.'s don't bother me anymore. j.w.'s are very difficult to win over to christ. | |
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| question: why do jehova's witness's seem to be so pushy not judging just a question
Posted: 9/20/2005 10:22:51 AM | | wow grplaman...that was really "out there". JW's steer clear of anything to do with occult so I don't know where you get that from. Where does it say in Revelation that the 144,000 are all males, jewish and virgins? That's a new one on me. The witnesses don't claim to only be the 144,000...theres millions of them so how would that work? As for them being difficult to win over to Christ....they do actually believe in Jesus Christ but perhaps its not your version of Christ? I am not defending them...I am just saying your post was a tad ignorant of what witnesses actually believe. | |
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| question: why do jehova's witness's seem to be so pushy not judging just a question
Posted: 9/20/2005 11:07:51 AM | he's right in some ways feral. They say that they keep themselves seperate from "this world". That they are citizens of God's kingdom rather than mans.
But that Christ told them to make disciples...which is why they go door to door totry and make converts. If you live in a rural area, that could be why you don't have any knocking on your door because they cover most of the urban areas and only visit rural on rare occasions. | |
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| question: why do jehova's witness's seem to be so pushy not judging just a question
Posted: 9/20/2005 12:59:59 PM | | the book of Revelations talks about 144,000 chosen ones who will rule as kings and priests with Christ in heaven. It is the only book which mentions this specific number. The witnesses believe that while most of them will live on earth after Armageddon, there are a chosen few who will be raised to heaven to Rule with Christ. Those chosen ones get personal revelations that they are chosen and they are the only ones who partake of the wine and bread at the annual memorial. | |
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| question: why do jehova's witness's seem to be so pushy not judging just a question
Posted: 9/20/2005 5:11:39 PM | | Why anyone would anyone accuse them of being pushy or fanatic, after all allowing a child die for the lack of a simple blood transfusion, based upon religious gobbledy gook given them by some prophet who was enlightened in a vision, seems fair. The concept of sacrificing children to the gods is a little out of date for most of us. Maybe they are right about the world nearing the end. Historically, human sacrifice (virgins are preferred but they have become scarce, so little kids will have to do) is one of the precursors of a declining civilization. If these enlightened folks are going to be the inhabitors of heaven, I'll opt out for the fire and brimstone accomodations. | |
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| question: why do jehova's witness's seem to be so pushy not judging just a question
Posted: 9/21/2005 6:13:25 AM | Squirrly Jehovah's Witnesses believe only 144000 people go to heaven. Everyone else is to
look forward to living in paradise
According to Scripture, Jewish. Revelation 7:4. As the great crowd is from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, in contrast the 144,000 are sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel, the twelve tribes(Revelation 7: 9,4). These are the same twelve tribes that come from Jacob. which means all men and all jewish.
The 144,000 will be virgins. Revelation 14:1, 4. They will be too busy serving God during the great tribulation to focus on watching out for the welfare of a family. The 144,000 will be sealed in the future after the 6th Seal, the Day of Wrath and the holding back of the four winds (Revelation 6:12,17; 7:1,3).
Fourth, the saints are depicted as “virgins,” which descriptive emphasizes their purity (cf. 2 Cor. 11:2).Again, though, it must be stressed that if one contends for a literal 144,000, if consistent, he should argue also that a literal Lamb was literally standing on literal Mount Zion with a group of literal men who had never been intimate with literal women, hence, were literal virgins!
squirrly read the bible and learn how to correctly interpret scripture! | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 149 | |
| question: why do jehova's witness's seem to be so pushy not judging just a question
Posted: 9/21/2005 8:21:16 AM | Revelation Chapter 14 1) Then I looked and there was the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, 2 and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2) I heard a sound from heaven like the sound of rushing water or a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3) They were singing (what seemed to be) a new hymn before the throne, before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn this hymn except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been ransomed from the earth. 4) These are they who were not defiled with women; they are virgins *** and these are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been ransomed as the firstfruits of the human race for God and the Lamb. *** [4] Virgins: metaphorically, because they never indulged in any idolatrous practices, which are considered in the Old Testament to be adultery and fornication (Rev 2:14-15, 20-22; 17:1-6; cf Ezekiel 16:1-58; 23:1-49). The parallel passages (Rev 7:3; 22:4) indicate that the 144,000 whose foreheads are sealed represent all Christian people.
http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/revelation/revelation14.htm#foot3
This is from the New American Bible, as endorsed by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.
That's the one you like to ramble quotes from...right?
grplaman, read the bible and learn how to correctly interpret scripture!
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